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Sydin posted:This why I find all the mods that give samurai 100 morale or whatever because "samurai lived by the code of bushido, and thus never fled from battle And a lot of the ultra-honorable bushido stuff was pure bullshit made up by Japanese nationalists in the years leading up to WW2.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:42
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I don't know if I accidentally stumbled into proper planning during the campaign in FOTS, but I'm constantly hovering around 500k koku at 35k+ koku a turn and I have nothing to spend it on short of just sending general-less stacks of Imperial Infantry at people. I literally just send Shinobi at Daimyos for fun because it only usually costs 1k koku to murder them. I might just start trying to blow koku on trying to convert full stacks to my side next. Wondering if I could pull this off in ROTS/S2.
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Aug 15, 2014 19:13
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Yeah, the romanticizing of the buke in modern times is just that. Just like western knights, samurai were a landed warrior class of low-end nobles whose primary claim to 'chivalry' was 'I have my own armor and weapons and will happily exchange violence for the right to own land.' In terms of how they behaved towards others, they were brutal, thuggish louts. Consider the practice of testing swords on the beheaded bodies of convicts(which, while less common than tameshigiri, did actually happen). Basically, when a samurai says 'honor,' he means 'PR.'
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Aug 15, 2014 19:19
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This conversation sort of makes me think of the woodcutter's story in Rashomon. If you've never seen it, the short description of Rashomon is that it's a murder trial in medieval Japan, where each witness describes the events of the murder differently. In most of the accounts, a fight that occurs between a samurai and a bandit is as "professional" looking as you might imagine, with both men seeming unafraid and being competent swordsmen, and so on. Then you get to the peasant's account, and both guys are terrified and flailing wildly with no real skill, and the fight ends with the samurai cowering and begging.
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Aug 16, 2014 01:27
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Agent Interrobang posted:Consider the practice of testing swords on the beheaded bodies of convicts(which, while less common than tameshigiri, did actually happen). And if you think that was bad, this was actual practice for some time.
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Aug 16, 2014 21:33
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That one actually makes it onto one of the loading screen quotes in Shogun 2, I think.
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Aug 17, 2014 00:20
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Agent Interrobang posted:Basically, when a samurai says 'honor,' he means 'PR.' Yeah, I understand that the real "samurai are honorable and loyal and rely on their trusty uber-sword katanas with which they are unstoppable" stuff started really kicking in after the timeframe of this game. Once the Sengoku Jidai period was over, the shogunate wanted to keep all these armed guys less interested in said warring so there was a spread of propaganda/legend spreading about bushido. In my opinion it was probably partly a "hey, you're already awesome so no need for actual warfare to prove it, right?" thing and partly a factor of who benefits most from an ideology of absolute loyalty to your lord (i.e. the lords). In actual time of war bushido seemed to be regarded like chivalry was for the Europeans; a virtue best admired in others, preferably others in a position of servitude. Though the Western church mixed into chivalry some, how much did Buddhism and Shinto affect bushido? Also, wow, I actually caught up with this LP, after running through it and the previous Rise one. Not half as impressive/exhausting as going through Spirit Armor's Sakura Wars was the first time, but still nice to get into waiting around with the rest of you for a change.
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Aug 17, 2014 06:01
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MadDogMike posted:Though the Western church mixed into chivalry some, how much did Buddhism and Shinto affect bushido? The justification behind pretty much all of Bushido's precepts was rooted in the common wisdom acknowledged in the writings of the various Buddhist sects in Japan with a helping of Confucianism as well. Shinto didn't influence it all that much because Shinto doesn't really have directions for its faithful to follow, a holy book, or anything like that. You pray at shrines at festivals, honor the gods when you want them to help you, and... that's it. It's something you do rather than something you are.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:08
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kongurous posted:Shinto doesn't really have [...] a holy book Eh, there's the Kojiki, but I guess "holy book" is still a bit of a stretch.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:11
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yeah, Kojiki is more of a Just So Story/Matter of Japan that influenced Shinto practices then an actual holy book.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:35
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Shoguns of the Sea Winter of 1552 (Continued)   "You have served with honour and duty" announced Korekata. "No other clan can boast such tireless and dedicated warriors. Yet one victory, no matter how major, does not end a war! The clan still calls for us and we will answer!" With Tamba successfully brought under our control, we pull Korekata back to Settsu in order to protect our more important provinces. With the bonus to movement speed thanks to being Commissioner for Supply and 2 ranks of Strategist, Korekata is able to cover almost our entire western front by himself.   "There can be no greater omen of victory than the thunder of a thousand Hattori samurai" boomed Taketoshi. "I shall clench my fist and all Japan shall tremble before us!" Taketoshi now commands one of the most powerful forces we have ever seen, with a full quarter of a stack comprised of Hattori Katana Samurai! Although lacking in cavalry, Taketoshi will be in prime position to capture Owari from the Ikko Ikki who appear poised to take it from the Takeda! With so many veteran warriors, the Ikko Ikki will not know what hit them!   "Why must we fight?" preached Nobuchika. "With each blow we drive ourselves further from our brothers, each blow leading to a darker path" The Ikko Ikki soldiers murmured, unconvinced. "Heaven watches us all, giving us all a chance to prove our worth" the monk continued. "We all serve different masters, but we are walking the same path, together." The Ikko Ikki forces will need maximum casualties, however, and the province of Owari will need a monk inside it to make our liberation as quick and painless as possible. Luckily for us, Nobuchika is on the job and able to demoralise the Ikko Ikki army. With any luck (and delightfully free), their troops will be less reliable and so take more casualties in combat (Since they will have a weaker auto-resolve strength)! The odds are not great, but Monk agents tend to have low success odds, relatively speaking. Monks/Missionaries have a lower chance of success at any given mission, but also pay less and have a lower risk of critical failure (death). In contrast, Ninja have a higher chance of success but also of death, while Metsuke and Geisha are in the middle.  "We serve those who earn our trust and our loyalty" Nobuchika continued. "Are those who fight to change the masters of another any better than those who force the fealty of their peers?" The Ikko Ikki soldiers dispersed, the sermon over. Although their faith was still strong, doubt had begun to creep in, if only for a little while. Glorious success! The Ikko Ikki army is weakened and Nobuchika gains another batch of delicious experience. We will need skilled monks to help us control the Ikko Ikki presence in the soon to be liberated lands and this is a strong step towards achieving that goal.   The deep cloud obscured all light, the darkness almost oppressive in it's thickness. Chisato never let her mind dwell on such things, the act of being silent and untraceable a second nature, as ingrained as breathing itself. "No foe more worthy than a granary" she thought to herself in a moment of levity. "Nevertheless, I should be on my guard." Chisato is of limited use being stuck far to the north, so we need to get her back where the action is. That doesn't mean, of course, that we can't cause a little budget chaos along the way, especially with her less than half a dozen successful missions off reaching the highest skill level in the game, rank 6. What better way is there to demonstrate how dangerous the Hattori are than a little granary burning?  Click here to see the mission!  The vigilance was unnecessary, the token guards poorly trained and far more interested in their game of dice than their job of keeping watch. After all, who would bother to attack a granary? "A simple task" thought Chisato. "The Hattori profit and none lose their life. A good nights work." As she slipped out into the darkness, the first tendrils of smoke began to emerge from the granary roof. The Hattori would strike anything, anywhere. A glorious success! The damage to the farm is substantial and will be koku that isn't being spent on soldiers to attack us. Although that Hatakeyama force is of reasonable size, our garrison in Kaga is more than sufficient to see them beaten back.   The guard dropped, clutching his slashed throat, but the second guard was no fool, quickly recovering and drawing his sword. "Going to fight me, huh?" grinned Tameshige. "Good. I could use a warm up." The second guard said nothing, keeping his stance ready, his sword defensive. "Afraid to die, little man?" taunted Tameshige. "Your friend can't help you now. You picked the wrong building to defend." Tameshige launched a flurry of heavy blows, but the guard expertly avoided them with deft parries and skilled footwork. "You are slowing" the ninja laughed. "It's only a matter of time." Another cheap sabotage mission to get some easy experience while we await the inevitable deluge of enemy agents from the west (The Otomo will have us knee deep in missionaries any day now and that would be a serious problem). Success will get us a little closer to that extra level and the more reliable assassinations that will come from it, not to mention that they are cheaper. Click here to see the mission!  The arrow barely missed Tameshige, crashing into a lantern and sending burning oil tumbling down the wall. Spinning round, Tameshige noticed a half dozen soldiers running towards him, the archer drawing another arrow. "Don't talk when you fight" stated the guard, the slightest trace of a smile on his face. Wordlessly, Tameshige turned and fled. Well, you can't win them all. Even an 80% chance of success fails one in every 5 attempts. The RNG has been pretty kind to us this run, so I can't really complain that something doesn't go our way for once. At least we got Tameshige out alive! One of the less exciting aspects of Realm Divide is clearing your waters of all the small enemy fleets which stream into them, a task which continues for the rest of the game (albeit once you have it under control it's a lot simpler).       "Now this is what I live for!" grinned the fleet commander. "Sailing in the morning, fighting in the afternoon and a new ship by evening!" Mop up duty is every bit as dull and tedious as it looks. On the other hand we captured ourselves more quality ships (including our first Sengoku Bune!), but we will need expensive repairs and our ability to support our ludicrously growing fleet is rapidly being outstripped. Soon I will need to make hard choices about which ships to scuttle.   "Admiral, two enemy fleets have taken up position in the channel and seek to deny us" reported the lookout. "Could this be a precursor to an invasion?" The Admiral waved aside the lookout. "Even if it isn't, we can't let this stand" replied the admiral. "The Hattori control these waters and I will make sure no-one forgets it." Our second western fleet is set to clear the channel to the north of Sanuki. A combined fleet of Otomo and Amako ships have set up base in there and are attempting to secure the seas for themselves. We won't let this insolence stand!  "Several large ships, admiral!" announced the lookout. "We focus on securing the channel mouth from the Amako fleet" ordered the admiral, turning to the captain. "We need to secure that waterway as a priority." "What about the Otomo, sir?" questioned the captain. "Their fleet is substantial." "We will deal with them when they get here" responded the admiral. "They are too far out of position to help their allies in time." The combined fleet is significantly more powerful than I had expected, with 3 Sengoku Bune and 2 Bow Kobaya against our 5 veteran Medium Bune. We are certainly outclassed in the melee aspect, so we will need to rely on our superior ranged power to inflict maximum possible damage to the Sengoku Bune before they reach us to board.  Click here to see the battle! "Signal the fleet to avoid melee combat if possible" ordered the admiral. "Signal that their Sengoku Bune are fast in a straight line, but ships can out turn them. I want that Amako fleet sunk or captured, we have a score to settle!" The map favours us! Enemy reinforcements will approach from the direction they are on the campaign map, so in the case of the Amako they will arrive through the channel to the west, while the Otomo forces have to deploy in the north. By deploying our forces as close the channel mouth as possible, we can bring our overwhelming numerical advantage to bear and hopefully crush the Amako forces before the Otomo arrive, which means that more of our ships will be available to bring their ranged firepower on target.  "The enemy fleet is withdrawing, admiral!" announced the lookout. "2 ships have disengaged, but 3 ships have surrended." "Orders to pursue, admiral?" inquired the captain. "No, we consolitdate and take stock of our losses" responded the admiral. "The waters to the west might be Hattori on the map, but we can't risk being caught overextended." A magnificent success, with 3 enemy ships captured and 2 crippled. As if our fleet was not powerful enough we now have another 2 Sengoku Bune and a Bow Kobaya to play with and keep the channel safe from harm. Such a victory was not without cost, however, with our ships having suffered heavy damage. The damage we suffered was worse thanks to a delightful bug in the Shogun 2 naval system. Here is how it went down: We finished the fight with: Melee/Archers 37 / 55 30 / 20 31 / 37 29 / 44 22 / 36 Total: 149 / 192 But the Summary Screen and the result on the campaign map was as follows: Melee/Archers 19 / 25 15 / 11 22 / 35 13 / 22 33 / 54 Sub Total: 102 / 147 So what happened? Well, it has to do with how the system works out the battlefield casualties after you click "End Battle". Normally, it runs 2 tics of autoresolve combat and those are the casualties for the fleeing army and ignores casualties on the victorious army. What seems to be happening here is that ships which are fleeing, but not surrendered, are getting their autoresolve tics on the attacking force. You don't see this much in smaller battles, because you tend to win by surrender rather than rout, but in our case the battle was too close to force surrenders from everyone so we took the hit. You can avoid this by auto resolving fights or using the "Continue" option when you win a naval battle (this only impacts naval battles). In my case neither was an option and I've factored it in, but it's useful to know in case you are wondering why you are getting the results you are getting.  "As you command, sir" replied the captain, sending orders to the signal runner. "I'm not sure there is anything out there we can't handle." "I suspect you might be right, captain" replied the admiral. "But our first duty is to prevent invasion of the homeland. We can't do that if we are sailing to Kyushu." Not much to see here, except that our western fleet is an incredibly veteran hardened force. At full strength, they could quite happily take out twice their number given that degree of combat experience. We will need it if we are to keep our seas secure.   "Head for home then, sir" questioned the captain. "We could use new supplies and replacement sailors." "Not yet, captain" responded the admiral. "We maintain a blockade of the western channel and see how the situation evolves." With the damage we have taken (and the captured ships!), we are in no condition to continue to push west. Instead, we fall back towards the east and hopefully to port next turn where we can repair the worst of the damage. Sneak Peek: Foundations of Stone
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Aug 31, 2014 14:00
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That bug is new to me, but you should almost always continue naval battles anyway and chase the routers yourself. For example in this case you could have easily captured all 4 of those Sengoku Bune, but 2 managed to get away in the auto resolve.
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Aug 31, 2014 16:22
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That finally explains why your casualties seem to extend beyond the numbers in the battle results screen.
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Aug 31, 2014 21:40
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That Sengoku Bune looks super-vulnerable to arrows but I suppose given the presence on deck it's not really.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:47
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I'm doing a christian campaign just now (this thread among other things roped me back into Shogun 2) and its fun to stomp around with the namban trade-ships just killing everything, the ashigaru matchlocks are more limited tho, at least in field battles. For my next campaign i wanna really try and seriously use the kisho ninja for once, like field a fair few of them for each stack. Not because it's fantastic or anything, but i like doing gimmicks. My problem is tho that i'm struggling to find a effective way to apply them on paper, any kisho tips? So far i only see the one trick pony of stealthing them rapidly around the flanks, bomb peoples butts and then stab them in the same area.
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Sep 3, 2014 17:53
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I picked up the Otomo pack and I've been struggling to use matchlocks well in the open field, are there any good ways to deploy them?
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Sep 3, 2014 18:33
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Dongattack posted:I'm doing a christian campaign just now (this thread among other things roped me back into Shogun 2) and its fun to stomp around with the namban trade-ships just killing everything, the ashigaru matchlocks are more limited tho, at least in field battles. That's kind of their gimmick, yeah.  They're really good for siege because they can jump over the walls and take a tower/gate without being noticed, or just run up and blind a unit from behind as you assault the wall. Ninja have really high stats but not many bodies, so they are easily overwhelmed and crushed. The best luck I've had with them is once the lines are engaged, move the ninja behind the enemy line, bomb the poo poo out of some heavier units, and charge in. They're also very effective general killers: stealth up to the enemy general, nail em' with grenades, then charge in. You'll probably be able to ice him before help arrives.Dirt Worshipper posted:I picked up the Otomo pack and I've been struggling to use matchlocks well in the open field, are there any good ways to deploy them? Matchlock ashi are very hard to use on the offensive because of their short range and relatively low morale. They'll just get diced apart by bows before getting in range. You can always try to move them up behind your melee troops after they're already engaged, but they have awful aim and may end up just firing more shots into your own units' backs. Honestly I don't find them very useful at all in field attacks. Otomo Tercos are another matter, since they have the morale and melee stats to get in close on the flanks for some good shots, and can hold their own if the enemy tries to engage them. In a defense or when the enemy is otherwise coming to you, stick them up on the side of a hill behind your bows but in front of your melee core. When the enemy approaches, pull your archers behind to the top of the hill, move your melee forward to the bottom of the hill to engage, and leave the matchlocks where they are. Your archers will have the range and visibility to put arrows into the enemy, while your matchlocks will be able to shoot over the heads of your melee troops and still be close enough to the battle to have range. Also remember that with matchlock ashi their purpose isn't so much to get kills as much as it is to freak out the units they're shooting at with lots of loud noise and explosions. A handful of matchlock ashi all firing a volley can rout an entire flank, so concentrate your fire to punch a hole in the enemy line, then penetrate and annihilate. 
Sydin fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 19:13
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Sydin posted:That's kind of their gimmick, yeah. It's rout goddamn it.  But yeah, sometimes the best use is to have just one unit of matchlocks to swing on the flanks of a melee line/furball and start the chain rout.
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Sep 3, 2014 19:19
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Aye, matchlocks are pretty drat limited in field battles simply because they'll get charged and murdered very quickly. Portuguese Tercos are a different matter though - they're essentially katana samurai who happen to pack guns too.
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Sep 3, 2014 19:19
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the JJ posted:It's rout goddamn it. It's goddamn it.Thank you though, fixed that.
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Sep 3, 2014 19:21
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Dirt Worshipper posted:I picked up the Otomo pack and I've been struggling to use matchlocks well in the open field, are there any good ways to deploy them? It literally took me half of Japan to figure out how to use matchlocks. Originally i had them at the front exchanging fire with archers, this was a bad idea cause it turns out they are poo poo at it. Then it dawned on my to split my matchlocks into two forces that are in the back at the extreme flanks of the battle-line. Once the samurai and the pleb melee people are duking it out i would move the matchlocks into a position to shoot the enemy in the rear, minimal friendly fire as well this way. I usually keep a few yari with them cause the AI likes to save its cavalry just for this situation. Once you can get matchlocks into a position like this they are devastating, if not tho they are kinda sub-par. As with most things in this game it's all about positioning.
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Sep 3, 2014 21:43
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Sydin posted:It's drat phone auto capitalizing.
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Sep 3, 2014 22:08
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Glazius posted:That Sengoku Bune looks super-vulnerable to arrows but I suppose given the presence on deck it's not really. The 10 archers on the deck of a Sengoku Bune are super vulnerable, along with the 10 soldiers that stand with them (Including the admiral, argh!). The remaining troops are all stored inside the ship itself, so it's remarkably hard to kill more than those external troops with arrow fire. On the other hand, the lack of troops on the deck means that fire has more chance to take hold. Scalding Coffee posted:That finally explains why your casualties seem to extend beyond the numbers in the battle results screen. If I'm not showing you the man behind the curtain then I'm not doing my job of LP'ing the game right!
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Sep 4, 2014 13:52
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shalcar posted:The 10 archers on the deck of a Sengoku Bune are super vulnerable, along with the 10 soldiers that stand with them (Including the admiral, argh!). The remaining troops are all stored inside the ship itself, so it's remarkably hard to kill more than those external troops with arrow fire. On the other hand, the lack of troops on the deck means that fire has more chance to take hold. Seeing as the best naval strategy is Fire Arrows and Warcry chaining, I can see where this might be an issue.
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Sep 4, 2014 14:25
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Sydin posted:That's kind of their gimmick, yeah. The problem I found is that they only work well when sieging towns that have at least the second level in the castle building chain. At first level, where it's just one wall, one tier and two to four gates depending on terrain, they can't actually finish opening a gate before the garrison shows up and butchers them all. On a multi-tier fortress, of course, you have the potential for some hilarity. For example, luring all their troops but the ones locked to the main keep down into a lower level, sneaking ninja over the walls, and then locking all their guys in the lower level while your whole army just strolls into the undefended mid-level.
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Sep 4, 2014 16:27
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The Hanzo hero ninja unit is utterly insane also. Feats it accomplished in mock battles: Devestating 3 units of katana samurai, eating a great guard charge and routing them and soloing a siege battle against 3 yari ashigaru and 2 bow ashigaru. For that last one i feel they could probably have handled more, but i was sold at that point.
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Sep 4, 2014 17:13
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shalcar posted:The 10 archers on the deck of a Sengoku Bune are super vulnerable, along with the 10 soldiers that stand with them (Including the admiral, argh!). The remaining troops are all stored inside the ship itself, so it's remarkably hard to kill more than those external troops with arrow fire. On the other hand, the lack of troops on the deck means that fire has more chance to take hold. Yet for some reason, the Sengoku Bune I fight are incredibly resistant to catching fire. I've thrown hundreds of flaming arrows at the things and they never burn. Dongattack posted:The Hanzo hero ninja unit is utterly insane also. Feats it accomplished in mock battles: Devestating 3 units of katana samurai, eating a great guard charge and routing them and soloing a siege battle against 3 yari ashigaru and 2 bow ashigaru. For that last one i feel they could probably have handled more, but i was sold at that point. Of course Masanari is a badass, what do you expect?
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Sep 4, 2014 18:30
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Single player balance seems a bit off? I left the game alone for about 2-3 years and back then it would be very random how Japan looked by 1570, but over 3 games now it's been the same 3 clans splitting Japan into 3 parts and then allying with each other. First go around my sentiment was "hell yeah, finally a challenge", but now it's more like "wow this is boring, it's like the realm divide happens at turn 15". Edit: Current campaign is super annoying tho cause the two largest clans are Ikko Ikki that are spreading their religion and Otomo that are christian, booooooooo. Dongattack fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 21:45
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I've played a bunch of the game in the past few weeks and haven't seen a single campaign turn out the same way, so you must just be getting unlucky.
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Sep 5, 2014 22:15
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Why didn't you try and pick apart that alliance before it forms?
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Sep 5, 2014 22:15
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John Charity Spring posted:I've played a bunch of the game in the past few weeks and haven't seen a single campaign turn out the same way, so you must just be getting unlucky. Have you been seeing giant allied blobs by the mid-game tho or a bit more fractured?
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Sep 5, 2014 22:24
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A mix of everything. My most recent game ended up with only three other factions left come Realm Divide - Takeda in the north, and big Chosokabe and Mori blobs in the south (me as the Ikko-Ikki in the middle) - but the previous one had about a dozen other clans still around and involved in warfare with each other when I hit the tipping point. The only constant is that the Tokugawa get mulched in a few turns.
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Sep 5, 2014 22:49
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John Charity Spring posted:A mix of everything. My most recent game ended up with only three other factions left come Realm Divide - Takeda in the north, and big Chosokabe and Mori blobs in the south (me as the Ikko-Ikki in the middle) - but the previous one had about a dozen other clans still around and involved in warfare with each other when I hit the tipping point. The only constant is that the Tokugawa get mulched in a few turns. Cheers. I must have been exceedingly unlucky, time to NOT enter the lottery i guess D:
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Sep 5, 2014 23:13
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Foundations of Stone Spring of 1553  The administrator breathed a sigh of relief as the first shipment from the expanded stoneworks set sail from the harbour. It had taken nearly two years and the effort of thousands of workers, but at long last, the Hattori had a reliable and plentiful supply of quality stone. A major turn for construction with no less than 4 new buildings coming online! On the economic side of things we have Terrace Farming in Kaga and the completion of a Stoneworks in Sanuki, the final upgrade of the Stone chain. The Stoneworks will give us a substantial boost of several hundred koku a turn in trade goods alone, in addition to making Sanuki cheaper to upgrade. It's a welcome development and another step towards making our economy able to withstand any disaster. Militarily, we complete a Sword School in Kawachi, giving us a valuable second province from which to train Hattori Katana Samurai, as well as unlocking the devastating Katana Cavalry thanks to the Warhorse Stables located there. Finally we complete a Weaponsmith in Kaga which increases the melee attack of both samurai and ashigaru produced in the province. A little known feature is that this bonus applies to the garrison units in the province, as well as any units which spawn here from events. Unfortunately, it's the only building chain in the game where you lose something from upgrading, namely the armour bonus that the old Blacksmith provided. Had we chosen to build an Armoursmith, we would instead have lost the bonus melee attack. It's always worth the upgrade, but it's something to keep in mind.   Cost: 1350 Weaponsmith, one of two possible upgrades of the Smith chain, increases the melee attack of ashigaru and further increases melee attack of samurai recruited in the province, at the price of the loss of bonus armour to samurai. Ingame Encyclopaedia - Weaponsmith posted:There are specialist blacksmiths in this province. They may be ordered to follow one of two paths: that of the sword, or the way of the armourer. These specialists will greatly improve the melee attacks of the clan's units, or their armour in battle. Iron working has always been a much-appreciated skill in Japan. The art of forging swords is a delicate and time-consuming business, and skilled swordsmiths were both honoured and sought after as retainers. Armourers, on the other hand, sometimes fared less well in terms of social status because their craft used leather, and tanning was a job for social outcasts as it involved handling dead animals. Some armourers would sign their work, and produce complex family histories to elevate their status. Nevertheless, the products of their labour, such as the elaborate and beautiful o-yoroi, are still valued today. King James I of England was sent gifts of samurai armour by the Tokugawa Shogunate; the armour is still in the Royal Armouries collection. Finally, armour was expensive, and this often meant that suits of armour re-used pieces from older sets. This makes dating particular pieces of armour tricky, because it was not uncommon for older maker's marks to be erased and the refurbisher's mark to be put on instead.   Cost: 2000 The final building in the Stone chain, the Stoneworks provides the largest number of trade goods and building cost reduction, while providing additional town wealth. Ingame Encyclopaedia - Stoneworks posted:Good quality stone can be found in convenient places in this province, and the local stoneworkers are reasonably expert in getting it out of the ground. As the stonemasons are given more equipment, they can improve the amount of usable stone they extract, and so improve the defensive value of any castle that is constructed. This kind of development also includes the transport system needed to ship stone to where it is required. Before the advent of powered transport, moving masonry and stone was often more work than actually extracting the stuff, and it is no coincidence that many quarries were near either the coast or a navigable river: boats were often the only way to transport heavy items over any distance. Final shaping and any detail work is, and was, nearly always done on the building site.  "The Ikko Ikki menace still threatens our way of life" the garrison commander boomed to the new recruits. "We will keep peace and order, or we will die trying!" Our recruitment is significantly less aggressive than earlier turns as our army upkeep starts getting dangerously close to what we can afford if it all goes wrong. Using the last turn of bonus experience to ashigaru troops, we produce a Hattori Bow Ashigaru in Echizen to take advantage of the ludicrous accuracy buffs and help bolster Yasunaga's army, while we help keep the peace with a Hattori Yari Ashigaru in Wakasa. Always exciting, though, is the recruitment of another Hattori Katana Samurai unit in Yamato. Our slow and steady production of Hattori Katana Samurai has really given backbone to our forces and will help us push forward even under the pressure of Realm Divide. Recruitment and construction are now likely to slow to a crawl as I make one final push to try to get us the most heroic of toys...    "My Lord, grave news" reported the scout. "An enemy force of the Ito has landed to the west!" "We will hold, no matter the cost" replied the administrator. "But that spot is hardly ideal for landings. I expect they are running blind, a fact we can use to our advantage." Recruitment and construction will have to wait though, as we have our first naval invasion courtesy of the Ito! It looks like our fleets actually did their job, as this army was almost certainly bound for the naval assault of Sanuki, but with our fleet blocking the beach they had to come ashore further east. Generally speaking if the AI can't path to the landing point it wants, it will go to the nearest landing point and then go after the nearest province it can naturally path to. In this case I'm expecting either a land attack of Sanuki or an assault on the southern Tosa province. Although the province of Iyo to the west is basically undefended, it's further from the beach than the other two provinces and so unless they are both heavily defended (which they are not), the AI will tend to ignore it.   As the weeks passed, an uneasy feeling kept troubling Yasunada, the endless prickle of a watcher on the back of his neck, a shadow always a little deeper than expected, a face seen one too many times to be coincidence. The attack, when it came, was as bold and heavy handed as it was inexperienced, the stranger drawing a weapon and running directly at the monk. Yasunada in sheer panic swung his walking stick with all his might, bringing a heavy blow on the arm of the assassin, the blade skittering away. "Help! Assassin!" Yasunada screamed, scrambling to put distance between himself and the ninja. "Help!" Seeing his window close, the assassin fled. Annoyingly, the Ikko Ikki are attempting to prevent us from stamping out their religion by attempting to kill our monk, Yasunada! Luckily for us the attempt failed, which is rather unlikely given that ninja are the natural counter to monks and Yasunada is not a high enough level to be reliably able to ignore low level ninja. With the enemy agent exposed, now is the time to strike!   In the end, the assassin had been all too easy to track. Seen by too many faces, bragged about too many things, a fondness for drinking and ladies. A rookie. Her disguise as a serving girl was flawless in the dingy, smoke filled Sake Den that the assassin liked to frequent, the owner, when presented with the choice of generous compensation for silence or explaining to Yasunaga why he refused, had chosen the prudent option. She was sure she had her target, the man matched the description perfectly, all the way down to nursing a broken arm. "Keep it together" she thought, approaching his table. "Pay attention, don't get cocky. Take your time." Walking by the table, in one smooth motion she dropped her tray, drew her hairpin and thrust. Chisato has exhausted the limit of her usefulness up north and it's time to bring her home to more pressing concerns. Like the murder of that damned Ikko Ikki ninja. Dirt cheap and highly likely? drat, Chisato is an apex predator.  Click here to see the mission!  The strike was true, the hairpin skewering the throat of the man, bright red blood bursting forth. In a smooth, practised motion, the hairpin was twisted and then yanked, tearing a ghastly hole. Chaos ensued, chairs overturned and people fleeing, yet no-one could recall seeing where the deadly serving girl had gone. It was as if she had vanished into thin air. Never in any doubt whatsoever, that poor ninja had no idea what hit him. Chisato takes another step closer to rank 6 (about 5 missions away by my guess...).   "Here you stand, in the lands of your sworn enemy, awaiting your death and judgement at the hands of Heaven" boomed Nobuchika. "Who among you can say that this ill fortune, this desperate position, is not the vengeance of the gods?" Nobuchika drew himself up, gesturing dramatically towards the sky. "Who here" he bellowed. "Who here can truly believe that the gods have not struck your leaders with madness, that their crimes will be paid for with your own blood?" With an Ikko Ikki force sitting deep inside Takeda territory, this is a great chance to help our allies out and weaken our enemies at the same time. Anything that keeps the Ikko Ikki on the back foot is going to be helpful to keep the situation from spiraling out of control. In order to keep them on the back foot, we order Nobuchika to demoralize the enemy force. With the Ikko Ikki relying on large numbers of low morale ashigaru, this should substantially weaken them at no cost to us!  None would admit it, but the monk had struck a chord. They believed in their cause, but with hope fading, how long could they be expected to stand alone? Another glorious success and the Ikko Ikki are a step closer to destruction.   "Our friends the Takeda have a vermin problem" boomed Taketoshi. "One that we are going to solve for them! But if we don't hurry they will take care of it without us, so you all better MOVE!" Low morale is of no consequence is there is not a battle and Taketoshi is spoiling for a fight before we start taking the remaining Ikko Ikki provinces. After all, each army we fight on the field is one we don't have to fight behind walls!  "My Lord, the enemy has set up behind the bridge" reported the scout. "With the exception of a nearby ford, there is no other crossing for at least a dozen kilometres." "Taking that bridge will be expensive" noted the samurai captain. "But we will cover it with Ikko Ikki blood." "No-one will be fighting on that bridge" ordered Taketoshi. "We are Hattori! None match us for stealth, none match us in battle. Battle is played by my rules and no other!" "Then what are your orders, my Lord?" questioned the samurai captain. "Our forces will march across the ford under the cover of darkness" stated Taketoshi. "I will remain here with my bodyguard and keep the fires stoked so that the enemy will not realise our deception. At first light you will lead the charge. Frontal assault, leave none alive." The samurai captain saluted, a wicked grin on his face. "Finally, a real fight. It will be my honour." "Yes" replied Taketoshi, nodding. "It will." With our 5 Hattori Katana Samurai, 9 Hattori Yari Ashigaru and 3 Hattori Bow Ashigaru, our force is overwhelming compared to the 2 Generals, 3 Bow Ronin, 1 Ikko Ikki Loan Swords, 2 Ikko Ikki Yari Ashigaru and 1 Ikko Ikki Bow Ashigaru. Even so, Bow Ronin are deadly foes, capable of dealing serious damage at range regardless of what they are shooting at.   Cost: 400 Unique to the Ikko Ikki, Loan Sword Ashigaru are katana armed ashigaru, incredibly deadly against all other ashigaru in melee and can even do respectable damage to samurai, but their low morale and armour make them incredibly susceptible to ranged and flanking attacks. Ingame encyclopaedia - Loan Sword Ashigaru posted:These foot soldiers carry katana: swords renowned for their razor sharpness and cutting power. The ashigaru form part of the main battle line and, once enemy infantry has been sufficiently weakened by missile troops, the ashigaru charge in and engage in melee. Though ashigaru lack the swordsmanship of samurai, the sharp katana does most of the work. Once it cuts into an enemy, momentum carries it through, carving bone and flesh like silk. Because ashigaru don't have the same social standing as samurai, their morale isn't as good, and they are weak against cavalry charges or missile attacks. In 1588, the Japanese regent Toyotomi Hideyoshi banned all peasants from owning arms to remove the threat of peasant revolts and to hopefully limit other daimyo's attempts to seize power. This measure also meant the existing ashigaru rose in stature. Once they had been little more than trained peasantry who split their time between farming and soldiering, but now they were professional soldiers. While of a lower class than the samurai, they could fight in battle without worrying how their crops were faring.  Click here to see the battle! A mighty warcry shattered the dawn as the Hattori forces surged towards the Ikko Ikki ranks. "Come on you bastards" screamed the samurai captain. "Follow me!" The confusion in the Ikko Ikki ranks was quickly replaced by order, their forces wheeling to face the Hattori attackers as both lines crashed in a magnificent and bloody display. What makes matters worse is that this is a bridge battle, where ranged firepower is all and they certainly have enough bodies to block the bridge and make it a slaughterhouse for our samurai or ashigaru. Except, of course, that we are the Hattori and don't have to deploy in the normal zones...  The Ikko Ikki front line bent under the ferocity of the Hattori onslaught, before shattering like glass, the archers behind them suffering little better. The carnage was absolute, although the Hattori forces were not without losses. The effectiveness of such fury was undeniable, but it has it's own price. A glorious victory with the complete destruction of the Ikko Ikki forces! Although we took moderate Katana Samurai casualties, the experience on offer for carving up Bow Ronin was too much to ignore and we have been rewarded with substantially improved ranks. While it may take a few turns to replenish back to full (we replenish 6 men a turn inside allied territory), the experience was most certainly worth it.  "A glorious victory, My Lord" reported the samurai captain. "Not a single dog escaped!" "Yasunaga expects no less of you" replied Taketoshi. "You and your men did well today. You should all rest and recuperate, the Takeda will want to thank us soon enough and we have more work ahead." This tells it all with the samurai doing the vast, vast majority of the killing (special mention to the ashigaru unit that charged the flank down the bottom there!) and also did all the dying. Also telling is the sheer number of ranks our samurai gained, representing a huge boost to combat effectiveness, even if the overall numbers will be down for a few turns.   "For too long the Ikko Ikki have threatened our people, our homes, our way of life" announced Yasunaga. "But we stand idly no more! For on this day, we begin our mission to end this threat once and for all. On this day, we swear we will end the Ikko Ikki completely or we will die trying." We need to get Yasunaga in on all this Ikko Ikki slaughtering action, since this area is stabilized for the time being. The roads are not that great so we don't get all that far, but that's not a major issue.    "It's an honour to fight alongside you once again, my Lord" stated the cavalry captain. "We will see the Hattori raised triumphant, in your rightful place." "With soldiers such as you alongside me, we can't fail" replied Yasunaga. "I swear that I will protect your families with the fervour that you protect the Hattori." Since Yasunaga didn't get to move all that far, he's still in range of Echizen and Wakasa. We take advantage of that by shuffling some reinforcements his way for a total of 3 more units, bringing him up to 3/4 of a stack. It's not going to rock the world of a concerted opposition, but it should be more than enough to make progress against the off balance Ikko Ikki.   The dagger arced through the air, taking the guard in the throat. "Yes!" thought Tameshige, grinning as he pumped his fist. "Another one that won't catch me." Slipping through darkened gardens and down walkways, he set off for more guards to kill and to find the ideal place to light a fire. Another turn, another dirt cheap chance to get some experience on Tameshige while we have no-one around worth killing. In fact, we should probably grab another Ninja since company can't be all that far away... Click here to see the mission!  In the distance, the Magistrate's office burned. "An acquired taste, perhaps" mused Tameshige to himself, watching from his vantage point. "The death of a building has it's own beauty, but it just lacks the thrill." Not as cheap or as satisfying as Chisato's mission, but it's important to give these milk runs to all of your ninja where available, since you never know where having that extra star might come in handy (everywhere, it comes in handy everywhere).   "Careful with that!" boomed the captain. "If we break this ship before we deliver it to the admiral, he will have all our heads!" With remarkably few fully battle ready ships, we move our two newest repaired vessels to reinforce our western fleet bottleneck.     "How many for repairs?" boggled the harbour master. "I don't have nearly enough shipwrights for that!" "I don't care how you do it" stated the captain. "Or how much it costs. Yasunaga needs these waters secure and for that he needs these ships in tip top shape." This frees us up to bring our badly wounded and incredible valuable veteran ships home for repairs, as well as the damaged ships from our other western fleet. All these repairs are eating up a large portion of our income, with a heavily damaged Medium Bune costing around 150 koku each to repair. It might not sound like much but when you are generating this many damaged ships it consumes a huge portion of the budget. I consider this shuffle that you have to do with naval forces one of the biggest problems with Shogun 2 naval management as replenishment just works so well for all the land units and then you have to go back to the old babysitting methods as your ships get slowly worn down. It would be nice if ships replenished naturally around a friendly port or province or something, but alas, annoying naval micro is what we are stuck with. Luckily this will die down a lot once we clear our waters and just deal with the tiny fleets that trickle in instead of having to deal with taking ground.   "How come everyone else gets shore leave and we are still on patrol?" complained the first mate. "Seems like we get punished for being the best." "You see those merchant vessels over there?" pointed the captain. "Those are why we are on patrol. The wealth they bring in keeps the soldiers protecting your family paid. We have a duty, both to them and to the Hattori." The ships that are in good shape from our other western fleet move south to secure attempt to secure the alternate entrance to our waters. I don't expect more than a few remnants to pop through, but it's good form to protect the harbour itself, since the ships inside won't actually prevent it being blockaded and so we can still have that valuable income source cut off for a turn by a sneaky Bow Kobaya from out of the fog.    "Hojo fleet spotted!" yelled the lookout. "4 warships and a dozen transports!" "Best news I've heard all day" grinned the admiral. "Set course and pursue. Order all Bune to follow us in the attack, leave the Kobaya to harass those Ikko Ikki merchants!" Meanwhile, the Hojo have built a fleet and army to attempt to invade us, but we are not having any of that. I know that they are going to flee given the size of our fleet, but I don't want to lose valuable income since we probably won't make it back to the trade route this turn. Instead we break off 5 Medium Bune to press the attack, knowing full well that should finish the job no matter what they have. In addition, we absolutely have to sink every ship they have or else they will manage to land that army and all our good work will be wasted.  "Your orders, sir?" queried the captain. "Several of their ships appear heavily undermanned." "Full speed ahead" ordered the admiral. "We board them and take them out in hand to hand, nothing fancy. Don't let those transports escape." "You heard the admiral" bellowed the captain. "Full speed ahead and prepare to board!" Our 5 Medium Bune are more than a match for their 1 Medium Bune and 3 Bow Kobaya, 2 of which are heavily damaged. I can't risk any of them fleeing, so we will need to play aggressively and trade casualties for damage. This is going to be a massacre.  Click here to see the battle! The two ships came together with a mighty crash and the Hattori forces spilled onto the deck of the Hojo vessel. "Not a bad effort" yelled the captain, trying to make progress in the melee. "But they are going to need more than this!" But the battle was turning against the Hattori, as the Hojo forces responded with precision and skill. "New plan, sir?" questioned the first mate. "This isn't looking good." "Hold, you bastards!" bellowed the captain. "HOLD!" We get the best possible map for our plans. With no islands or other features in the way to impact our rush, there is little in the way of tactics here, simply brute force.  Suddenly, dozens of arrows raked the Hojo forces from both sides as two more Hattori Bune came to lend their support. The appearance of more soldiers gave hope to the Hattori and sapped the will of the defenders. "They love to leave us to the last minute" grinned the captain, watching as the Hojo forces surrendered. "Had me worried." As we expected, an absolute massacre with every enemy ship either sunk or captured. We took a bit of a beating doing it, but the price is much lower than letting that Hojo force through.  "All enemy ships are captured, my lord" reported the captain. "The transports were burned to the waterline as you ordered. None of their passengers escaped." "Good" replied the admiral. "Scuttle these ships. I have no need of hulks." Solid experience gains all round to make our fleet even more deadly, as if we needed it. A great result.   "We barely have enough soldiers to row" reported the first mate. "It was a bloody fight." The captain nodded. "We set course for harbour. We need replacement sailors and repairs." We send our two most heavily damage Medium Bune back for repairs and scuttle all 3 of the captured Hojo ships, since we have no real need for them and naval upkeep is starting to become an issue. Even more repair costs to drain our coffers.   "A good little fight" noted the admiral. "But life can't be all fun. Set course for our raiding fleet. They could use a hand." Our 3 relatively intact Medium Bune are sent to rejoin our raiding fleet. Although they don't make it all the way back (and vindicate my plan to split our forces!), they get close enough that they reinforce each other and so both of them are quite safe. Spring of 1553 (Enemy Turn)  "Traitorous cowards" bellowed Yasunaga, the missive crumpled in his gauntleted fist. "So be it! If the other lords wish to sacrifice themselves, then I will see the flames burn bright." Those magnificent, magnificent bastards. You are probably thinking "The Takaoka are on the west of our empire, right? Our vassals? What the hell is going on?" and you would be right, they are. So let me explain what's going on here. The Takeda want to go to war with us, not the Takaoka. If they declare war on us directly, our vassals, the Takaoka and the Bessho will join us in the fight. However, the Takaoka and the Bessho are not allied, so if the Takeda declare war on the Takaoka, there are two possible outcomes. The first is that I support my vassal and so the Takeda are at war with me and the Takaoka, a net win on declaring on me directly. The second option is that I abandon my vassal and lose them, at which point the Takeda will do the same thing with the Bessho and then finally with me, after which they will peace out with the Bessho and Takaoka leaving just me vs the Takeda. Given the choice between losing my vassals and going to war or just going to war, there really is only one choice.  The people were worried, for now the Hattori stood alone against a united Japan and the only loyalty remaining was that gained by the sword, peace seeming more distant that ever. Moving with the speed of the wind, one messenger rode his horses to exhaustion, the personal seal of Yasunaga meaning none would dare impede his passage. The most precious cargo in his rucksack, orders for none other than Taketoshi himself, bearing but a single command. "No mercy." Our trade income from the Takeda was a quite respectable 1800 koku a turn which now we have just lost. I would be annoyed about this, but we just parked Taketoshi and his doomstack outside a Takeda province, with Yasunaga on the way to reinforce. One way or another, I'm getting my money back... Takeda, you have no idea just how badly you hosed up. Sneak Peek:Taketoshi Unleashed... shalcar fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 15:15
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Well, it's certainly been a while! September is a big month in my families calendar and combined with my career no longer loving around, I'm plumbing new depths of no free time. Student me would barely recognise my life at 30, more money than time is odd, to say the least. Still going strong and I'm absolutely going to finish, I have not forgotten you all! We move into high gear now as we power towards the finish and if my plan comes to fruition, you might find that turn 40 is... rather heroic. My plan is to have this all finished by Christmas, but with that only 13 weeks away, it might be pretty tight. Nevertheless, we will see!
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Sep 23, 2014 15:37
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Sep 23, 2014 16:36
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Awesome update. Your ninjas certainly have more success than mine ever did. I'm taking a class in metallurgy right now (I want to learn how to be a blacksmith) and one of the things our instructor was talking about was the impurities in iron and steel and how they were removed in various parts of the world. When he brought up Japan and the extremely poor quality of their iron one guy just had to speak up about how katanas were amazing swords and so sharp and that their steel was folded over and over again. The instructor shut him down when he explained that Katanas may have been sharp but they were very brittle and actually broke often. At most the steel was folded maybe four times, any more than that would have taken far more time and technology than they had available. I'm even more excited for the class now
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Sep 23, 2014 17:59
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Do all bridge battle maps in Shogun 2 have two different crossings? Is there any difference between going over the ford or the bridge? I suppose you can move more people across the ford at once, but they'll be slowed down and have to fight uphill. I can see why would choose to have at least two options. Bridge battles have always been spectacularly brutal in Total War games, but there's not much room for tactics if there's only one crossing. Speaking of spectacle, after a little pause your videos struck me with how pretty Shogun 2 is! Nice colours, lots of little animations and details and a sleek UI. I don't know why, but Rome 2 just looks a little offputting to me. Maybe it's the colour filter.
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Sep 23, 2014 19:18
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That bridge battle was hilarious. The Hattori really can pull off some crazy shenanigans. Promontory posted:Do all bridge battle maps in Shogun 2 have two different crossings? Is there any difference between going over the ford or the bridge? I suppose you can move more people across the ford at once, but they'll be slowed down and have to fight uphill. I can see why would choose to have at least two options. Bridge battles have always been spectacularly brutal in Total War games, but there's not much room for tactics if there's only one crossing. They all have at least one shallow water river crossing, yeah. However, trying to fight your way across it can be troublesome. Your units take a big fatigue hit while moving though / fighting in water, and they're much slower too. Like you said if you get caught by the enemy on the bank, you're also fighting a battle uphill, and all of these things add up to put your units at a big disadvantage. Generally when attacking across a bridge, my strategy is to have clear ranged superiority. The enemy will bunch up close to defend the bridge, so when I start raining arrows on them they either sally out to a much less defensible position, or get whittled down to the point I can overwhelm them charging across. And yes, I agree S2 is a lot prettier than R2, particularly the battle maps. They're colorful, more geographically varied with lots of unique landmarks, and have grass you can actually see without zooming in all the way. Deadmeat5150 posted:Awesome update. Your ninjas certainly have more success than mine ever did. The inner child in me loves watching people like this get deflated and always will. 
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Sep 23, 2014 19:55
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Promontory posted:Do all bridge battle maps in Shogun 2 have two different crossings? Is there any difference between going over the ford or the bridge? I suppose you can move more people across the ford at once, but they'll be slowed down and have to fight uphill. I can see why would choose to have at least two options. Bridge battles have always been spectacularly brutal in Total War games, but there's not much room for tactics if there's only one crossing. I think all the bridge maps have at least 1 other crossing. Fords are wider, but you move slower and get more fatigue moving through water, and they are usually at a lower elevation so there are penalties there too. Bridges don't have those, but are very narrow, letting less men through and making them easier to kill with arrows when the clump up. Also sometimes the movement AI does weird things when giving orders around bridges.
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Sep 23, 2014 20:12
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