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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Angry Lobster posted:

Fallen castles have a boss? After 90 hours played, I've never seen one, I see I still got a lot to see in this game

You must've only ever gotten castles where at least one of the champions was blocked in by trees. :v:

Seriously though, fallen castles are kind of a pain to navigate. A less-dense tree pattern so you had more freedom to roam would be nice; it often feels like there's only one valid path from point A to point B, but it's often convoluted and difficult to visually discern from looking at the map. Most dungeon types are pretty easy to navigate in comparison.

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Clever Spambot
Sep 16, 2009

You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Now it's gone...gone...
GONE....
I still haven't been able to beat ironmans mode so opting into a dlc that allows me to make things harder is probably super stupid but im likely to do it anyway.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Clever Spambot posted:

I still haven't been able to beat ironmans mode so opting into a dlc that allows me to make things harder is probably super stupid but im likely to do it anyway.

:same:

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
I haven't beat the game yet, but I'll buy the DLC anyway because the game is cool and good.

Kly
Aug 8, 2003

are there going to be any new classes, enemies or tilesets with the dlc?

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

Kly posted:

are there going to be any new classes, enemies or tilesets with the dlc?
There are not, but those have been free updates over the last three years. Psychomanser, Fallen Castles, and a whole mess of new baddies and items.

When it comes to DLC I've always been hesitant to charge money for it. Two primary reasons:

1) Does the content really feel expansion-y enough? I have this great adventure in mind but it requires new art and music that I don't have the resources to purchase. When I think paid expansion, I envision more than one environment where a player is in a dungeon type they've never seen, fighting all new monsters, to music they haven't heard before. I can't deliver that right now.

B) Roguelike customers generally don't like paying for power. If I sold a five dollar Pointier Swords pack, with new weapons and maybe some new baddies to try them on, I wouldn't feel great about it, and I don't think my customers would either.

However, I need to generate more income or I can't be a full time indie dev anymore. That is plain. Demon Truck didn't do much for me at all, and while the mobile version is churning along I feel like there's an opportunity to give dmans customers something neat while also helping fill the war chest. We'll see.

Adventure Maps

Here's some more info on the update dropping at the end of the month! Please note all these images are still WIP.

Your first Adventure Map is a rare drop, and will lead to some place generally just a touch lower level than you are. These can lead to any dungeon type, and there are all sorts of modifiers that change up the combat within. This particular map is a high level challenge:



You can see here that this particular monster has the +Eager modifier, meaning that you can expect the occasional double attack from him. Same goes for ranged enemies and spellcasters.



When you use one of these maps in the overworld, you are guided to a hidden location. You don't need to land exactly on it, just be close enough and use the map. Cartographers get a leg up on this. Dungeon locations in the world are based on difficulty, and hopefully this will get folks to kick out and explore the overworld some more.



Some of the Adventure Maps lead to elementally infused dungeons. There are some new enchants to be found in these places.



The most important part of Adventure Maps? Boss kills are guaranteed to drop item enchant scrolls. In fact, there's a higher chance of seeing them overall in Adventure Map dungeons, but boss kills are 100% assured to drop some. No more aimless wandering in desperate hope to scrabble up an Enstremfenize scroll or two.

Dante80
Mar 23, 2015

I really dig how this sounds, and will pay for this to get brutally murdered again2.

Dante80 fucked around with this message at 17:40 on May 16, 2017

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
This all looks pretty cool, but can we make the mob mods stand out more? Maybe put "Eager" in Brungabrunga's title, in a different color? And since you don't always look at a monster's card, some way in the main game view to notify "this guy has unusual abilities" in addition to the usual champion aura would be good. Hell, maybe even a cut-in dialog if the player encounters a champion of equal or greater level that has additional mods on it.

Basically I don't want to get surprise double-turned by a guy that had a special ability I would have known about if only I had tediously moused over every monster I met.

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

Dante80 posted:

I really dig how this sounds, and will pay for this to get brutally murdered again2.

The Adventure Maps are part of the free update. Brutal P2L murder will cost you though.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

This all looks pretty cool, but can we make the mob mods stand out more? Maybe put "Eager" in Brungabrunga's title, in a different color? And since you don't always look at a monster's card, some way in the main game view to notify "this guy has unusual abilities" in addition to the usual champion aura would be good. Hell, maybe even a cut-in dialog if the player encounters a champion of equal or greater level that has additional mods on it.

Basically I don't want to get surprise double-turned by a guy that had a special ability I would have known about if only I had tediously moused over every monster I met.

I'm not going to put the buffs in the title because then you'll have "Eager Rending Shifty Scrobold Warrior" filling the combat log and it will just become noise. You won't see this type of thing on monsters outside of Adventure Maps, and you'll know what the monsters have going in, so you really *shouldn't* need to mouse over every monster in one of these dungeons, you'll know what to expect.

That said, a visual effect on the creature would be useful, I just don't want to make it turn into noise. Still working on that.

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun

Yeah boii

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

madjackmcmad posted:

I'm not going to put the buffs in the title because then you'll have "Eager Rending Shifty Scrobold Warrior" filling the combat log and it will just become noise. You won't see this type of thing on monsters outside of Adventure Maps, and you'll know what the monsters have going in, so you really *shouldn't* need to mouse over every monster in one of these dungeons, you'll know what to expect.

That said, a visual effect on the creature would be useful, I just don't want to make it turn into noise. Still working on that.

Fair point on the noise. Maybe a generic "this monster has mods" title instead of enumerating all oft hem? But if the player knows what mods all the monsters have going in, as you say, then it's probably not a big deal.

The combat log is already pretty noisy sometimes. :v: It's a hard problem to solve though; you want the player to be able to track what all happened in between their turns, but you also want the turns to not take forever to resolve.

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.
This gif is playing at double speed since it was made during a stream, but here's an idea:

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.
This could be you!

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Does trick knee apply to any action or just movement?

You could add a "perk" that causes you to fail to cast spells / use skills 1% of the time.

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Does trick knee apply to any action or just movement?

You could add a "perk" that causes you to fail to cast spells / use skills 1% of the time.

Trick Knee is only motion, and only if you are under full health -- it's annoying in towns/academy/overworld otherwise. "Powers fail {x}% of the time" is a different setting, 5 to 99. Current options are

Powers cost X% more

Strain lasts an additional X rounds

All powers have a X round cooldown

Powers fail X% of the time.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Bring that min failure option down to 1% in my opinion, but those all sound pretty awesome in a rage-inducing kind of way. :v:

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Bring that min failure option down to 1% in my opinion, but those all sound pretty awesome in a rage-inducing kind of way. :v:

I thought about that, and I actually think 5% might be too low. But here's my logic.

You can't plan around 1% failure rate, 1 in 100 is super RNG and it means nearly nothing unless it happens during your most critical power use. It's something that people would forget is even happening until it gets them, and that's too similar to "all these monsters were easy until the ancient king killed me."

5% feels different to me because that's the traditional 1 in 20. Roll a 1, power fails. I know it won't be the same to everyone, but 1 in 20 is more meaningful than 1 in 100, and it's just enough danger that a player needs to be very certain they have a backup plan.

I might be wrong, there's time to think it over.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
My background is coming from Angband, where casters can get down to 0% failure, and in that game at least there is a very noticeable difference between 0% and 1% failure rates. You can rely on 0%s to work. You can't rely on 1%s. I can see how someone might want to be able to replicate that.

That said, Angband has many potential instadeaths that can be avoided via proper use of teleportation powers, and if the power fails, you're a sitting duck. Dungeonmans is typically a bit more incremental in its approach to killing the player. Unless they decide to amp up the damage monsters deal, of course...

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
I think, gut-reaction, I like 5% more. It feels actually substantial.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
I guess then my only remaining question is why it goes all the way up to a 99% failure rate but only down to a 95% success rate.

Anyway, am currently exploring the Crystal Spire with Hubris, my latest mage. Maybe I won't gently caress it up horribly this time! :v:

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I guess then my only remaining question is why it goes all the way up to a 99% failure rate but only down to a 95% success rate.

Anyway, am currently exploring the Crystal Spire with Hubris, my latest mage. Maybe I won't gently caress it up horribly this time! :v:

Yeah good point!

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Anyway, am currently exploring the Crystal Spire with Hubris, my latest mage. Maybe I won't gently caress it up horribly this time! :v:

Answer: nope! Died horribly in the Menagerie to some weird yellow scorpion-yoshi thing I'd never seen before., which, with its infinitely-summoned minions, managed to go through my lightshield and all of my (~800) HP in a single turn. I didn't realize how much danger I was in, which I guess is on me for not paying close attention to the combat log. I'm used to having at least one turn between when the shield falls and when I die. :shrug:

Too bad I died with like a dozen artifacts from times immemorial in my inventory. Have you considered adding a consumable to the game that lets you send stuff back to the Academy without you having to leave the dungeon?

Also, purpleated landsharks are jerks.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.
I feel your pain, most deaths on my experience happen when I don't realize the danger I'm in.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Also, purpleated landsharks are jerks.

Amen to that.

Fhqwhgads
Jul 18, 2003

I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID
I haven't played this game in what feels like years. What's a good basic dungeonmans to kick off a new world? Rangermans? Sword and board?

RickVoid
Oct 21, 2010

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Too bad I died with like a dozen artifacts from times immemorial in my inventory. Have you considered adding a consumable to the game that lets you send stuff back to the Academy without you having to leave the dungeon?

Pets.

Dante80
Mar 23, 2015

Fhqwhgads posted:

I haven't played this game in what feels like years. What's a good basic dungeonmans to kick off a new world? Rangermans? Sword and board?

I find that going for a bow, real armor and two 1H weapons is pretty noob friendly.

Zeerust
May 1, 2008

They must have guessed, once or twice - guessed and refused to believe - that everything, always, collectively, had been moving toward that purified shape latent in the sky, that shape of no surprise, no second chance, no return.

Fhqwhgads posted:

I haven't played this game in what feels like years. What's a good basic dungeonmans to kick off a new world? Rangermans? Sword and board?

I personally find Sword & Board gets a pretty rough start due to the lack of ranged options, and on a virgin Academy that can hurt in the early dungeons. My favourite build for reliable performance is bows, two-handed weapons and medium armour; you get a reliable ranged attack, powerful melee with a lot of control options and high mobility. Getting out of danger and chipping enemies at a distance are the most crucial skills if you don't have the stats/gear to facetank through everything.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Don't underestimate the wizardmans either. Their ranged options have the greatest flexibility (Bolt of Foom can target anything within 5 tiles), they have a knockback spell, and the decoy is pretty amazing too. All those are available from level 1 if you take the Dungeonmans class (I forget what Wizardmans gets you).

You'll want to get some movement abilities eventually, but that's not super-critical right at the start of the game. The bamf spell at the end of the decoy tree is pretty good but has a ridiculously long cooldown. The dash tech in the dual-wielding tree is a decent backup.

For perks, the one that reduces strain from 5 turns to 3 is great for most classes, as is the one that reduces stamina/mana costs. Being able to freely spam abilities makes you much more powerful. The one that causes extra champions to spawn is also decent especially early on, because more champions = more proofs = more stat points for all your characters, and stat points make a big difference in your power. That one eventually tapers off though, due to the increasing cost of purchasing more stat points.

Section Z
Oct 1, 2008

Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?

Pillbug
I love the style of light armor but I hate re-upping the shield every ten seconds outside of combat to ensure I don't walk face first into something with it down.

Also now that my computer is supposedly ready for pickup, I just realized even a 7 year old off the shelf Dell I'm posting from could probably have played some Dmans :doh:

Kly
Aug 8, 2003

Yeah it'd be nice if you could set some things to autocast

Dante80
Mar 23, 2015

My wish is to be able to use ball of foom like we use the bow, if you use a staff. I'm playing with mouse and numpad, and having to hit the number to use this basic mana creating thing keeps me away from playing a wizard..T_T

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

Dante80 posted:

My wish is to be able to use ball of foom like we use the bow, if you use a staff. I'm playing with mouse and numpad, and having to hit the number to use this basic mana creating thing keeps me away from playing a wizard..T_T

Yeah, that's a pretty sensible change. Might be able to knock it out quickly, let's see.

Edit: Yeah, works well, should be in next Monday's patch!

madjackmcmad fucked around with this message at 22:50 on May 21, 2017

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

madjackmcmad posted:

Yeah, that's a pretty sensible change. Might be able to knock it out quickly, let's see.

Edit: Yeah, works well, should be in next Monday's patch!
Some devs never even make the most demanded QOL changes. Madjack hears about one from one person, codes the change, and implements it, all in just over an hour.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
That reminds me, is there a keyboard shortcut to switch which set of powers your keyboard shortcuts are bound to? I can click on the tiny left/right arrows to switch, but I'd like something that doesn't require the mouse, and I didn't notice anything in the settings.

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


It's in the keyboard settings ini, I can't remember the defaults

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

PMush Perfect posted:

Some devs never even make the most demanded QOL changes. Madjack hears about one from one person, codes the change, and implements it, all in just over an hour.

Yeah but then there's all those people who've been asking for Auto Explore over the last three years that I continue to disappoint :D

ZiegeDame
Aug 21, 2005

YUKIMURAAAA!
What is a rangermans supposed to do against caster champions? Most other enemies I can whittle down before the get close, dance away if I need to, but the comes this skeleton wizard with a barrier and too much health to one-shot and now I've taken 80% of my health from one ice attack. Should I be scouring shops for elemental resistance gear, or just stay the hell out of graveyards?

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

ZiegeDame posted:

What is a rangermans supposed to do against caster champions? Most other enemies I can whittle down before the get close, dance away if I need to, but the comes this skeleton wizard with a barrier and too much health to one-shot and now I've taken 80% of my health from one ice attack. Should I be scouring shops for elemental resistance gear, or just stay the hell out of graveyards?

Consumables to help spike your damage and sustain through his attacks, buuuut if that caster is red or purple to you, yeah go hide. Ice resist will help you, if you have any scrolls of despair that can open up a solid window for you too. Crypts are tough but not impossible, and the reason they are tough is they drop enhanced loot and a crypt-only enchant.

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

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Sage Grimm
Feb 18, 2013

Let's go explorin' little dude!
At first I thought it was a set up for a vicious triger dunking on some pasty mage. :smith:

It's still neat. I just liked my version better.

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