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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
This is a good game. Started playing it a week or so ago; now have a wizardmans tearing up the countryside. When she started the academy had like 30 proofs, now it has around about 80. Hooray for the extra-named-monsters trait.

Seems to me that for stamina-based characters, the traits that increase stamina regen and decrease strain time are huge. Being able to spam stamina attacks was really helpful with my previous characters.

Bugs:
* ice barriers and treasury keys have default flavor text.
* If you cast the Foom from the Skies spell with a staff equipped, you can cancel placing meteors and it won't use your turn, so e.g. you can cast a single meteor, hit Escape, and cast Bolt of Foom to have both spells go off on the same turn.
* I've also had the "zombie boss" issue, where the boss just sits there with no health and doesn't do anything. Though in my case they didn't suddenly revive and hit me over and over again, and fortunately they died properly when I reloaded the save.
* Bandit casters that "shift the tide of battle" can push you off the edge of the map if you're on an overworld map (i.e. not surrounded by walls). I haven't experimented much with this, but fortunately you can just walk right back in. Simple fix: put walls just "outside the black" on all surface maps.

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Oh, I had a level that was, like, a ruined fort or something. A bunch of crumbling rooms in the outdoors with trees all over the place. Including some trees that were blocking access to one of the rooms, so I couldn't get in. I'm guessing that wasn't intentional.

Feature request: deprioritize decoy monsters in the target list once the player knows that they're decoys. In fact, if the game could default to targeting whatever I targeted most recently, that would be nice for my Bolt of Foom spamming. It'd also be great if there was a limit on the number of decoys that an illusionist can have out at a time to, like, 10 (just remove the oldest one when a new one is created). If you manage to activate an illusionist and then somehow lose track of them, they'll spam decoys all over the drat dungeon. It's kind of annoying.

Oh, and I noted this in the in-game feedback, but monsters can use ranged attacks from offscreen if you're in windowed mode, because vertical range exceeds the window height. And when a dungeon is oriented northwest/southeast (as happened twice for me in the lizard pope dungeon), monsters often end up hidden behind the mini-statsheet.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
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madjackmcmad posted:

Fist enchants need to happen. One day.

Just make fists be a two-handed weapon like any other. Enchant your fists! Stick your fists in your inventory! Soak your fists in solvent because you don't like the enchantments on them! Drop your fists in a forgotten dungeon! I see no problem with this. :v:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe

madjackmcmad posted:

This is from a player who keeps throwing mens at the game. He died so much his graveyard wrapped around the Academy.



Oh, so you are supposed to get more than one grave? For some reason the gravedigger only ever dug a grave for my first mans.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
I'm telling you, enchanted fists.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe

ToxicFrog posted:

So how do I extract the music from those monolithic data blobs that Demon Truck comes with?

I think the idea is that you buy the soundtrack. It's 2bux so it's not exactly going to break your wallet.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe

madjackmcmad posted:

This is part of the Iron Spirit of a Dungeonmans.

Everyone shuffling around with their pants down around their ankles is part of the Iron Spirit of a Dungeonmans? What about the monsters? It's very important that I understand the relative pants placement on a scrobold so I can properly picture my adventures.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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LordKaiok posted:

I just recently got the game during the steam winter sale and I'm in love; however, I just ran into an issue and i have no idea what the gently caress happened. I went into a town to buy scrolls/potions because I want to actually win. I spent a little over 1k gold on champion potions, healing pots 2 and 3, stam pots 2 and 3, fortify weapon/armor, enstrenfinize armor/wep, blinking, etc., basically everything i need to set up a good set of gear to attempt a win. I go to check my inventory to set up hotkeys for the scrolls and potions, and i have nothing i spent my gold on. Any suggestions?

Only thing I can think of is that you're looking at the wrong tab of your inventory? :shrug: Otherwise sounds like a bug to me.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe

madjackmcmad posted:

Would love to hear the follow up on this, this could be a brand new bug!

Achievement Unlocked: That's Never Happened Before.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
The correct response to seeing Doomtalker summon a massive swarm of bees is probably not to read a Xespera's Challenge scroll and then sit and watch. RIP Dead Bob the Lady Necromanser.

I'm reminded of one of the possible "last words" quotes for killing a unique monster in certain old Angband variants: "Sure, I knew it was dangerous, but I was thinking about the XP..."

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
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Fun Shoe
Have we mentioned that your fists can be ripped off of you by Bandit Kings yet? Because they can.


(Click for full size)

Note the fist two steps north of me. Fortunately you still have your fists after they're removed from you; in fact my right fist got removed twice. Unfortunately, after picking it up it was nowhere to be seen in my inventory. :(

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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The other classes basically give you a non-terrible build if you don't want to worry about allocating those starting points.

Question: how do you make melee not suck? Every melee mans I play does way worse than my ranged mans, largely due to getting ripped apart by enemy spellcasters. As far as I can tell, all the movement skills are either magical/ranged-oriented or only work in an orthogonal direction, and all too often those bandit spellcasters aren't perfectly lined up. Meanwhile their damage options aren't that much better than just spamming Bolt of Foom at everything.

Plus it feels like Light 'Armor' is the best armor skill by a long shot, because its shield skill lets you soak massive amounts of spell damage without touching your HP bar. Medium/Real Armor will result in tons of unavoidable damage from enemy spellcasters. It's not like the bigger armors give better elemental resists. And light armor also makes for good dodge tanking -- my last caster mans was able to dodge an entire room of high-level bandit champions; he got bounced around by their exchange-places skill a bunch, but didn't take any damage as I recall. Sadly he got one-shot, light shield and all, by a cultist Ancient King. Probably I shouldn't have stacked quite so many starlight damage boosts on him; I think his Dread Purple resistance was somewhere around -40...

Also am I missing something or can you only use the various armor skill tree actives if your equipment consists solely of that armor type? Like, if I'm wearing a mix of Real and Light Armor, I can't use either Light Shield or Bring It On.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Gerblyn posted:

The biggest issue to me is that the Shield blocks almost everything, including dots like bleeding, poison and poison gas. It's effectively 1000+ temporary hit points which can be instantly replenished every 6 or 7 turns.

This is the big draw for me. Where the other Armor styles are going to be taking hits frequently and thus need to dip into their limited supply of healing potions on a regular basis (probably putting them on the skillbar, in fact), someone running Light Armor can be much more casual about getting hit because the hits don't really count. I find the latter style to simply be more fun -- you can stand out in the middle of a room and focus-fire down big threats while letting smaller ones bash ineffectually at you, and not feel like you're being forced to use up finite resources (i.e. potions) after every fight.

I guess a build that specs heavily into movement abilities and uses a bow could dash around the room while taking potshots and thus avoid most damage, but they're still going to run into enemy casters who have a 100% accurate, ranged, free-aim damaging attack, so they're guaranteed to take damage even when they haven't made mistakes. A character that specs into Real Armor and goes melee is absolutely going to get hit because you can't one-shot every enemy you encounter, and they still have to deal with the mages too. And if you tell me "well, carry a bow for those situations", my answer is that the UI doesn't make it easy to switch between ranged and melee attacks. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but armor doesn't inherently protect you at all against anything other than physical damage; you need specific elemental resists, or dodging, to avoid magical damage. Guess what Light Armor does?

I mean, don't get me wrong, Dungeonmans is a fun game, but I definitely got the feeling that Light Armor is the most fun way to play. Partially because frankly it's probably a bit overpowered, but mostly because the game's economy and inventory management system isn't great for supporting characters that are guaranteed to take damage. I don't want to have to constantly dip into my inventory of 50+ consumable items to find the one that will counter the DOT I've just been stuck with, but I feel I have to (if I don't use Light Armor) because the alternative is using a healing potion and there's simply not enough of those to go 'round. Or stand around like a chump waiting for my natural regeneration to kick in, but if I was meant to do that the game would have a Rest button and less aggressive monster spawning.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
Awesome. Because I totally do take movement skills, but since trees block vision and you can't teleport to tiles you can't see...whelp, at least now I can commit arbicide. Nice name, by the way.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Look, it's simple -- there's One True Way to name things and everyone who disagrees with me is demonic hellspawn. I don't get why this is so controversial.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe

DACK FAYDEN posted:

It's SSS Rank :allears:

Should've been SSJ3 rank. :v:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
I haven't played for awhile, but did you ever fix the bug where you could cast a bunch of Meteors in a single turn (so they'd all land on the next turn instead of over subsequent turns) if you just hit Escape after placing the first meteor? That was a fun bug.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
I find it amusing that you only allow the sliders to make the game harder. No easy-mode for scrubs, eh?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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madjackmcmad posted:

I also have a suspicion that the math isn't one-to-one, but I'm not sure why. Saying they have 500% more health is the same as saying they have normal health but take ~18% damage, maybe? Probably? I'm sure there's an edge case.

Depends on how resists for enemies work. If it's a flat damage reduction, then making enemies take less damage is much more impactful (in terms of changing fight difficulty) than making them have more health does. If everything combines multiplicatively, though, then it shouldn't make a difference except for when you apply rounding/truncation.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
Maybe it's because I pretty much only play casters, but one of the things I appreciate about Dungeonmans is that there aren't a whole lot of non-decisions to be made, i.e. turns that I could just tell the computer "do the clearly obvious correct thing for me, please."

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Waves of Steel
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Angry Lobster posted:

Fallen castles have a boss? After 90 hours played, I've never seen one, I see I still got a lot to see in this game

You must've only ever gotten castles where at least one of the champions was blocked in by trees. :v:

Seriously though, fallen castles are kind of a pain to navigate. A less-dense tree pattern so you had more freedom to roam would be nice; it often feels like there's only one valid path from point A to point B, but it's often convoluted and difficult to visually discern from looking at the map. Most dungeon types are pretty easy to navigate in comparison.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
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Fun Shoe
This all looks pretty cool, but can we make the mob mods stand out more? Maybe put "Eager" in Brungabrunga's title, in a different color? And since you don't always look at a monster's card, some way in the main game view to notify "this guy has unusual abilities" in addition to the usual champion aura would be good. Hell, maybe even a cut-in dialog if the player encounters a champion of equal or greater level that has additional mods on it.

Basically I don't want to get surprise double-turned by a guy that had a special ability I would have known about if only I had tediously moused over every monster I met.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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madjackmcmad posted:

I'm not going to put the buffs in the title because then you'll have "Eager Rending Shifty Scrobold Warrior" filling the combat log and it will just become noise. You won't see this type of thing on monsters outside of Adventure Maps, and you'll know what the monsters have going in, so you really *shouldn't* need to mouse over every monster in one of these dungeons, you'll know what to expect.

That said, a visual effect on the creature would be useful, I just don't want to make it turn into noise. Still working on that.

Fair point on the noise. Maybe a generic "this monster has mods" title instead of enumerating all oft hem? But if the player knows what mods all the monsters have going in, as you say, then it's probably not a big deal.

The combat log is already pretty noisy sometimes. :v: It's a hard problem to solve though; you want the player to be able to track what all happened in between their turns, but you also want the turns to not take forever to resolve.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
Does trick knee apply to any action or just movement?

You could add a "perk" that causes you to fail to cast spells / use skills 1% of the time.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
Bring that min failure option down to 1% in my opinion, but those all sound pretty awesome in a rage-inducing kind of way. :v:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
My background is coming from Angband, where casters can get down to 0% failure, and in that game at least there is a very noticeable difference between 0% and 1% failure rates. You can rely on 0%s to work. You can't rely on 1%s. I can see how someone might want to be able to replicate that.

That said, Angband has many potential instadeaths that can be avoided via proper use of teleportation powers, and if the power fails, you're a sitting duck. Dungeonmans is typically a bit more incremental in its approach to killing the player. Unless they decide to amp up the damage monsters deal, of course...

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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I guess then my only remaining question is why it goes all the way up to a 99% failure rate but only down to a 95% success rate.

Anyway, am currently exploring the Crystal Spire with Hubris, my latest mage. Maybe I won't gently caress it up horribly this time! :v:

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Waves of Steel
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Anyway, am currently exploring the Crystal Spire with Hubris, my latest mage. Maybe I won't gently caress it up horribly this time! :v:

Answer: nope! Died horribly in the Menagerie to some weird yellow scorpion-yoshi thing I'd never seen before., which, with its infinitely-summoned minions, managed to go through my lightshield and all of my (~800) HP in a single turn. I didn't realize how much danger I was in, which I guess is on me for not paying close attention to the combat log. I'm used to having at least one turn between when the shield falls and when I die. :shrug:

Too bad I died with like a dozen artifacts from times immemorial in my inventory. Have you considered adding a consumable to the game that lets you send stuff back to the Academy without you having to leave the dungeon?

Also, purpleated landsharks are jerks.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Fun Shoe
Don't underestimate the wizardmans either. Their ranged options have the greatest flexibility (Bolt of Foom can target anything within 5 tiles), they have a knockback spell, and the decoy is pretty amazing too. All those are available from level 1 if you take the Dungeonmans class (I forget what Wizardmans gets you).

You'll want to get some movement abilities eventually, but that's not super-critical right at the start of the game. The bamf spell at the end of the decoy tree is pretty good but has a ridiculously long cooldown. The dash tech in the dual-wielding tree is a decent backup.

For perks, the one that reduces strain from 5 turns to 3 is great for most classes, as is the one that reduces stamina/mana costs. Being able to freely spam abilities makes you much more powerful. The one that causes extra champions to spawn is also decent especially early on, because more champions = more proofs = more stat points for all your characters, and stat points make a big difference in your power. That one eventually tapers off though, due to the increasing cost of purchasing more stat points.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
That reminds me, is there a keyboard shortcut to switch which set of powers your keyboard shortcuts are bound to? I can click on the tiny left/right arrows to switch, but I'd like something that doesn't require the mouse, and I didn't notice anything in the settings.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
So wait, you killed the triger, then his ham-slinging buddy revived him? I call hax.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
Oh, that's alright then.

Do champion hamslingers sling entire pigs?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
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Fun Shoe
The amount of free support you're giving this game is amazing, madjack. Thank you!

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe
That reminds me -- I explored a crypt and the boss was one of those orc guys with the two swords. That seems...wrong?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Waves of Steel
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madjackmcmad posted:

It is. And it's an old bug, sometimes humanoids spawn as crypt bosses. Haven't solved that yet.

How about the one where you enter a dungeon, immediately leave it, and the music continues to play on top of the actual appropriate music? I even dialed the music volume down to 0 and the dungeon track continued at normal volume.

(To be clear, this isn't a big deal, since you can just restart the program, but I figure better to report this stuff than just let it slide)

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Turtlicious posted:

Does anyone know if there's a way to change the low health warning, or if there's ever gonna be auto-explore? I get tired of pathing through dungeons haha.

autoexplore: probably not. If you're just tired of hitting movement keys, you can right-click on the map and path to the selected tile. That's also AFAICT the only way that resting is exposed in the UI outside of keybinding config, in case you're like me and thought that there simply wasn't a rest button.

Dunno about the low health warning.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
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RickVoid posted:

I can't imagine trying to play this (or any other Roguelike) without a wait button. That poo poo is vital!

Waiting is one thing; there can be important tactical reasons to pass a turn. Twiddling your thumbs while your HP/SP (or in Dungeonmans terms, "resources") slowly replenish is a different matter.

I've long wanted to see/make a dungeon crawler where the only ways to recover were by spending resources or making forward progress. Unfortunately I have a tendency to bite off more than I can personally implement with the time/energy I'm willing to dedicate. :(

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

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Waves of Steel
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Chin Strap posted:

Outside of the wizardmans skills itself, what are the best skills to be going after as one? I would especially like some sort of movement ability, but the wizardmans teleport is higher level and stick and move require bow knowledge. Are there other go to movement skills?

If you max out the top-row wizardmans skills, you can start investing in dervish skills, which include a dash that goes through monsters. But you probably want to get Big Bamf first. Until then, I'd rely on your (ludicrously good) decoy spell, and Combat Blinking scrolls.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
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Fun Shoe

Dante80 posted:

Currently running a 14lvl Wizardmans, and due to a lot of equipment upgrading (liberal use of blueprints/cosmic forge) I have a lot of obsolete stuff that I cannot get off my inventory.

Isn't there still a fully-manual melt option? Or you can manually sell them to stores (and buy them with your next mans!).

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
You shouldn't need to drink a scroll to defy cabbages. I've been defying cabbages all my life with nothing more than my innate grit and sense of self-worth. This game is polluting the minds of our youths!

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