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As people in the Craigslist thread probably know, yesterday I bought a 1962 Studebaker Lark Daytona. The Lark To quote Wikipedia: "At the time the Lark was conceived, Studebaker-Packard Corporation was under a management contract with Curtiss-Wright Aircraft Company. Studebaker-Packard had been losing money for years when company president Harold E. Churchill came up with the idea of abandoning the full-size car market in favor of building a new compact car that he hoped would save the company." "The Lark was ingeniously designed around the core bodyshell of the full-sized 1953–1958 Studebakers. By reducing the front and rear overhangs and shortening the wheelbase ahead of the firewall, the car could still seat six people comfortably and hold a surprising amount of luggage. It was hoped that the vehicle would save America's oldest vehicle manufacturer when it was launched in the fall of 1958 as a 1959 model, much like the 1939 Studebaker Champion had saved the company in the years prior to World War II. In fact, it was the Champion which Churchill specifically took as his inspiration for the Lark." The Daytona was released in 1962, introducing bucket seats and a center console. And by bucket seats, I mean a bench seat cut in half, with a 4" wide bit down the middle. It's approved by Mr. Ed!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEfscN9Ppuc My Lark  I found this one in Oakland, listed for $5500. I went out, looked it over, took a test drive, and got it for $4700. It's got an inline-6 engine and a 3-speed automatic transmission. The inside is really quite nice. The carpeting has been redone--it's not original, but it's quite nice. I believe the seats have been dyed black, which seems to be rubbing off in a few places to reveal what looks like white-and-black vinyl underneath, but the seats are in excellent un-ripped condition. The knobs on the dash are in pretty good shape considering, and the gauges have recently been replaced so they're quite shiny. Apparently the radio works, but the PO disconnected it and wired in a modern stereo with CD player, thankfully discreetly placed under the passenger seat. (I've put a CD full of "Man... or Astro-Man?" albums in there, it's perfect).  This one really shows how the dye has rubbed off a bit:  The engine seems pretty nice. I don't know its history, but it starts up immediately (seriously might start quicker than my 2010 Honda Fit) and runs quite smoothly. It's tended to get the temperature gauge up near the top end when I drive it, and correspondingly the oil pressure gets low when things get hot. I'm thinking the radiator needs a new cap and a cleaning; the current cap is really old, corroded, and comes off with just a twist.  I'm already loving the poo poo out of this vehicle. I drove it home from Oakland on I-880 and Highway 84 (a windy road through the hills) and had a blast. I'm getting the hang of the brakes and the steering. Things What Need Doing The biggest issue with this car is rust. It's not falling to pieces, but underneath there is definitely some rust which I'll have to try scrubbing off and hitting with neutralizer. I live in a very desert climate, very hot and dry, so hopefully things won't get faster. There's a bit of a hole under the battery, for instance; I'll probably take it to one of the two body shops within 1/2 mile of my house and get them to weld something in. There's also the heat thing. Once I've driven a few miles, the heat gauge ends up between 75% and 100% and stays in that range the whole time; the oil pressure correspondingly drops as the temperature goes up. As I mentioned, the radiator needs a new cap and probably a cleaning. There's no shroud in there, so that's probably an option. The PO installed a hoodliner, which may or may not be holding heat in. I'm hoping it doesn't need a rebuild; while I don't mind doing a rebuild (this is a fun "play with old cars" thing anyway) I'd rather do it on my own time. I'd love to put in a manual transmission. It's got an automatic which works just fine, but I find manuals much more interesting. Needs new tires. It currently has bias-ply whitewall show tires. I'd rather put on a pair of decent radial all-weathers so I don't die in a light sprinkle. More Pictures! Honestly this doesn't have any Instagram filters, I just found a sweet place for a picture:    Who's that over there?  EDIT: I am an idiot who doesn't know how to set a thread icon, making this truly a poo poo post. EDIT 2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO: Somebody awesome changed the thread icon, thanks! Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 05:07
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jhcain posted:Very sweet Lark. My temp gauge looks pretty much like this:  It pretty quickly gets to the second-to-last tick. Where should I aim the IR thermometer? The upper radiator hose? It's got an oil pressure gauge with numbers and all. I'll try to keep track of what it does today.
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Jul 15, 2013 16:37
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Well balls, first issue struck. I decided to drive it to work today, trying to work a can of Seafoam through the engine. It's only 4 miles or so. I came in, then drove us to lunch because co-workers wanted to see the car. As I was making the last turn into the parking lot, the engine shut off and I coasted into my parking spot. Further attempts to start it have been met with the engine spinning and occasionally coughing like it wants to start, but not actually catching. Hopefully I can get it going to get home tonight, but I'm actually not sure where to start. It's in a safe place right now if I can't get it running, but gently caress engine problems.
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Jul 15, 2013 22:44
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It lives! I went out again, kept cranking, gave it some gas, and it started up. Pretty weak at first, but I gave it some throttle and soon the oil pressure was up and it was idling fine. I killed it and re-started it, started up on the first crank this time. Vapor lock? Crud knocked out by seafoam? (I checked on the studebaker forums, couldn't find any indication that Seafoam is naughty for these engines) Only odd thing I noticed was that as I sat there in park, occasionally running up the RPMs, was that when I gave it a quick press of the pedal it would sometimes "quack". I had the hood up so I could hear things very well, it wasn't especially loud and it only seemed to happen when I gave it a quick pump of the gas pedal. Any guesses?
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Jul 15, 2013 23:32
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BrokenKnucklez posted:I would really recommend doing a carb rebuild unless the owner has documented proof it has been done in a while in the last 3 years or so. While your at it, new fuel filter as well. This all sounds great. I've been trying to get my to-do list in order, and without much experience on these era of vehicles, I'm not sure what should be done or in what order. I made a rockauto order last night of some basic stuff (radiator cap, two thermostats [they had both 160 and 180 degree, ordered both to be safe], air filter) and the shop manual. Decided this morning that I should also get a new temperature sender, so I guess it's already time to cook up a new shopping list!
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Jul 15, 2013 23:56
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: Carry an extra set of points and a condenser with you. In a pinch, a matchbook cover and a screw driver will get you back on the road.
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Motronic posted:Absolutely yes on this car. It has the same high pressure shear surfaces as our old junk, so it needs the same elevated ZDDP levels to coat and protect them from Ok, I had just bought some regular 10W-30, I'll return that and try to pick up a jug of Rotella 10W-30. If they have it in 30W as recommended by the owner's manual, should I get that instead? I saw mention elsewhere of "Engine Restore", didn't see any counter-indications on the Studebaker forums, just some "can't hurt, hasn't ruined my engine" responses. Have any of you tried it? Is it worth a shot? Or is it just bullshit snake-oil?
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Jul 16, 2013 00:21
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BrokenKnucklez posted:It might help out some, but I imagine its just mostly snake oil. They don't normally stock it in 30W (I don't think it exists) So go with 15W-40. It will be perfectly fine for summer driving, and you will need to do something a little less thick for the winter. Ok, so screw the snake-oil thing, I'm a bit suspicious of miracle additives anyway. I'm pretty sure I saw 30W diesel oil in the shop, but that owner's manual was written 50 years ago so if you recommend Rotella 15W-40, I'll do that.
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Jul 16, 2013 00:36
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The new challenge: where the hell is the oil filter? The manual shows it on the other side of the engine from the carburetor, I can't find it any drat place. Googling, it was apparently optional on some of the engines! You're supposed to change the oil every 1000 miles in that case. I'll try to confirm this but drat... at least the Rotella oil was pretty cheap. There just aren't many places under the car for it to be, so maybe that's what I'm dealing with.
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Jul 16, 2013 02:58
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Bucephalus posted:Right rear corner, under the aircleaner/behind the exhaust downpipe. Do you have a diagram? I swear I was all over that engine and couldn't find the drat thing.
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Jul 16, 2013 03:57
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I'll check for the oil filter tomorrow when it's light again. If there actually is one, well, I'll drive for a while, then change the oil again and get the filter this time. After changing the oil, I started the engine again (fired up immediately) and took it around the block. As I came back into my driveway and started pulling in, the engine started running slower and quieter, seeming to sputter a bit, and the "AMP" light came on, then the engine died. As best I can tell, this is the same thing that happened this afternoon. With uninformed speculation, I'm thinking it may be one of these: 1. Dying alternator or intermittent connection somewhere in the wiring? 2. Gunk in the carburetor occasionally blocking off the flow of fuel. I figure the electrical system should be pretty straightforward to check, and I need to clean the carburetor anyway. Any more thoughts on what might be up?
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Jul 16, 2013 05:55
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The Studebaker forumites think it's a carburetor problem. Once the shop manual shows up, I guess I'll get to learn how to clean a carb! $55 for a rebuild kit seems steep but god knows how old the rubber in there is, so I guess I should order one? I've just put in an order at rockauto for a bunch of new electrical stuff (points, condenser, distributor cap and rotor) and a belt (mine seems a bit slippy). Should be fun! Actually I'm wondering now, given that the belt is a little slippy, I wonder if at idle it's slipping on the generator and making it stop generating enough to lose ignition.
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Jul 17, 2013 07:16
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Good Idea, but its a better bet to just go with a complete modern 12v system. I basically bought it with intentions of being partially DD, partially weekend funmobile. I have a reliable Honda Fit and two motorcycles, so it's not like I won't be able to go to work if this thing fails. So I'd like to get it running pretty reliably, with the expectation that this will probably entail a certain amount of non-stockness, but I also don't want to frankenstein it too terribly. I ordered new points and a new condenser last night. I think this has had a 12V conversion done in some fashion, since it has a big modern-style battery and a modern stereo stashed under the passenger seat. I'd have to check.
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Jul 17, 2013 21:01
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BrokenKnucklez posted:You definitely have a 12v system. Unless there is something seriously done improperly..... Anyways, yeah, your going to modify this car then. Its also worth looking to putting a more modern carb on this thing too. Should I just ask around on the Studebaker forums for carburetor recommendations? What would I get out of a more modern carb vs. the rebuild 1962 carburetor?
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Jul 17, 2013 22:00
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IOwnCalculus posted:If your current carb is sufficiently corroded / damaged, you'll be fighting poor sealing on it even with fresh gaskets. Some carb designs tend to be more reliable and easier to live with, as well (i.e. every Solex two-barrel that was replaced with a Weber). It should be a Carter carb from what I can google; I'll have to double check but I'm busy with birthday plans tonight. I suppose I can tear it down, post pictures, and then make the call to either rebuild it or replace it.
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Jul 17, 2013 22:28
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Here's my carburetor, it looks pretty decent I guess: So once I've confirmed that this is the right kit, I'll probably order the rebuild kit: http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Carter-AS-Studebaker-Carburetor-Kit_p_1525.html
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Jul 18, 2013 05:51
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I changed out the air filter for a clean one, then took a stick of soft wood and tapped a bit where the fuel pipe enters the carb, at the suggestion of the Studebaker guys. This time it seemed to run ok, although by the time the temp gauge got to the middle of the range, the idle oil pressure had dropped to around 15 psi. Pulled a few spark plugs, they're quite black but not oily, seems like a dry carbon residue which apparently means it's running rich. This weekend I'll have more time to work on it, I'll take a shot at a compression test followed by replacing the spark plugs. What's the best way to prevent fuel from flowing into the engine during the compression test if I have a mechanical fuel pump?
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Jul 19, 2013 04:30
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Oh hey have a video of the engine idling, it sounds kind of like a diesel to me and I'm not sure why... but then I have never owned a 1960s inline 6 so I have no idea what it's meant to sound like: https://vimeo.com/70603586
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Jul 19, 2013 04:51
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mafoose posted:It can loosen a stuck float or needle valve. I've had an old carb that occasionally needed it. Nowadays if a carbd car gives me fits, its time for a weber or efi. Bingo. At least that was the intent.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:01
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Motronic posted:Yeah.....if a float or a needle valve sticks once that's fine to get you home (although I've never quite heard of this particular procedure.....you just take off the air cleaner and smack it back down a couple of times...everything you need is already on the car). But, especially now with fuel that's eating plastic and rubber, that's a losing battle requiring a rebuild/replacement. One of the Studebaker forums members has offered to send me one of his extra carb kits for $20. Tapping the carb was a way to see if it might be a carb problem. Also you're right about replacing plugs, it's dumb before I fix the mixture. The current plugs seem to work ok for now anyway.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:18
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Your low oil pressure is due to the oil at this point. I have yet to see a mention of an oil change. I did change the oil, I mentioned that back on page 1. I used Rotella T 15W40. I've ordered the kit.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:15
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SNiPER_Magnum posted:That's a death sentence from what I've seen, but I only deal with stuff that is a dime a dozen in boneyards. Getting the bore machined and sleeved might be prohibitively expensive. And if that needs to happen, setting butterfly valves back properly might be a steep hurdle for a first rebuild experience. There's a little bit of wiggle room on the throttle shaft. Just enough so that I can feel the shaft move, and I see a little bit of fuel being pushed around when I do that. Here's a few more pictures:   There is fuel around the base of the carb. Not sure if it is coming from the throttle shaft or elsewhere. The engine did not feel like starting today. Well, it started the first time, then did the ever-slowing idle thing and wouldn't start properly again. Giving it some gas while turning the key could make it start firing, but it never really got running properly. I had the air filter off for some of this, the carb seems ungodly loud at idle. Kind of a hissy, sputtery noise. Is that normal? I haven't run a carbureted car without a filter before. Maybe it's time to ask around the Studebaker forums, see if somebody can spare a compatible carb. Edit: Oh, and the idle mixture screw was set at 3.5 (!) turns. I experimented with it at 1.5 turns and 2.5, but neither worked any better so for the time being I have returned it to the original setting. Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 21:21
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I've pulled the carburetor. Is that gas supposed to be hanging around in there?  Whatever, time to take a look.  The Studebaker guys recommend I start by just pulling the top off and having a look at the floats and such. One of them offered me a carb kit but hasn't responded again, so if he doesn't answer soon I guess I'll order one online.
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Jul 21, 2013 21:36
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Cakefool posted:A clean shop manual? Cherish that photo. Brand new, I'm breaking it in... it already falls readily to the carburetor page. Now to figure out how to get the needle valve assembly out, it just says "remove the needle valve assembly". Edit: and yeah, that valve is for cabin heat. Edit 2: Got the needle valve sorted, turns out the fuel line receiver was just seated really well and took a bit of force to break free. Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 23:17
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Disassembled the carb, didn't have too much trouble in general. The manual is sufficient for the task and I just put the pieces into an ice cube tray. Probably won't be making any more ice in there. Ok so I'm supposed to remove the metering rod retainer clip, but what do I see instead? Some janky-rear end bit of wire soldered to one piece and wrapped around the other.  Oh well, the wire broke as I tried to untwist it. I'll have to try to find a replacement or hillbilly something up again. I hope this little bastard got dislodged during disassembly and fell down there. Actually, maybe it would be better if it had already been in there, that would at least explain the problems   It's a little bit gunky down there, but not too terrible.  The floats float, nothing seems too terrible. Actually all the parts of the carb seem pretty clean, although the inside of the choke assembly is FILTHY. At this point I think I'll just wait to re-assemble it after I get a carb kit.
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Jul 22, 2013 00:47
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Ok, so an update after a long period of mostly inactivity. The Carter AS carburetor had a part called the metering rod retainer clip. My carb is missing that part. Apparently it wasn't really a thing on any other carburetor, and people tended to try to remove it with pliers, breaking it. Since this carburetor was only made for a few years and was only on some Studebakers and Ramblers, they are basically unobtainium these days. Rather than try to hillbilly something together, I decided to either get a NOS carb or have mine remanufactured. I had a line on a NOS carb, but the guy never seemed to get around to, you know, going out to the shop to find the drat thing, so after giving him over a month I just said gently caress it. I called Daytona Parts and talked to Ron about my options. They could remanufacture the carburetor for me. This would cost about $300, take 6+ weeks, and involve them machining a new metering rod retainer clip. The other option is to buy one of their universal carburetors for $320; these seem pretty well-regarded among Studebaker owners, require minimal modifications to install, and could be here by Wednesday. You might have guessed what I did. The universal carb should be here in about a week. Then it's just a matter of mounting it, replacing the fuel line connector, and routing a manual choke cable into the cabin.
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Aug 30, 2013 06:17
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The carburetor is here! This bastard is pretty weighty, seems like solid construction and shouldn't be any trouble to install. I intend to install it tomorrow night, assuming I can get to the Autozone tomorrow to grab a choke cable.
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Sep 4, 2013 07:22
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Did a partial install today. The carb came with a new fuel filter, so I installed that. The carb bolted on no problem, and the vacuum line screwed right in, but I found that the original fuel line didn't go in right. However, the new carb came with a banjo fitting that looks just right for a rubber fuel line; I figure I'll pick one up and run it straight from the fuel filter to the carb, eliminating the original metal line. The biggest remaining challenge is to install the manual choke cable. I've got to get it through the firewall somehow; there's one hole where a bunch of wires and the hood release go, with just enough room for the choke cable, or there's also a bit of space around the steering column. I'm also going to need some sort of l-bracket to mount the choke cable under the dash. I don't relish screwing something into my dash but, well, it's out of the way at least. Or, maybe I could pull out the (non-functioning) cigarette lighter and, with a washer or two, install the choke there.
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Sep 5, 2013 06:33
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I hope it's not completely out of line to keep replying to your own thread this way instead of editing the last post. Anyway, today I finally got it started again after so long! I grabbed a chunk of fuel line at Autozone and stuck it on the banjo fitting. I figured if I give it some gas, I should be able to start without a choke ok, so I tried firing it up and after a little bit (presumably to fill the lines and the float bowl and such) it kicked right to life! After nursing it with the gas pedal for a minute or so, it was idling smoothly (if a bit low, I'll adjust that later). I took it around the block once to try things out. It stalled twice pulling from a stop, but never stalled at idle like the old carb did. I figure stalling from the stop is probably from the low idle. If I can rig something up, I may get a drive video uploaded at some point soon.
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Sep 6, 2013 03:48
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Raluek posted:How's the acceleration pump driven on the new carb? Sometimes they ship on the lowest setting, or are left unhooked for you to connect however you want. Sounds like the pumpshot is inadequate. Does it bog if you quickly blip the throttle from idle in neutral? I think the stalling was due to the engine still being a bit cold. This morning, I started it up and ran it a bit longer before driving. Then I took it to work. It tried to die at the first stop sign but didn't entirely shut off, then at the next two it kind of "caught" for a second, and after that I didn't really have any trouble. It still got pretty warm on the 3 mile drive to work, so that's going to top my list of things to work on. I'll probably start like this: 1. Replace belt, just because that's easy and I want the fan operating at full speed. 2. Flush radiator and install radiator overflow bottle
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Sep 6, 2013 22:17
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Raluek posted:Oh! Yeah if the choke isn't functional and it wasn't warmed up all the way that'll happen. I was assuming it was all the way warmed up. I guess when I tried it yesterday, I had assumed it was more fully warmed up. Oops. Worked pretty well today though!
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Sep 7, 2013 02:54
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As part of my ongoing quest to get everything in good working order, I want to check on the brake system. I figure I should start with the hydraulic system; I don't know much about brakes, but basically if all the lines are in place, not falling apart, and not leaking, I should be ok, right? Looking at the shop manual, there are a lot of things that need to be lubricated every 10,000 miles or so, including the front wheel bearings which need to be repacked every 10,000 miles. Time to get a grease gun I guess 
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Sep 7, 2013 22:01
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Good news everyone! I drove around a little with a camera and didn't crash. Sorry for my goony loving voice: https://vimeo.com/74079712
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Sep 9, 2013 04:14
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Gentlemen! Behold... an engine! Running! https://vimeo.com/74177430 I think it sounds pretty decent... there's a clacking element I don't particularly care for but it runs just fine.
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Sep 10, 2013 07:07
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I put in a choke cable some time ago. Not too thrilled with how sharply the cable has to bend to get under the air filter, but it does work. Are there good options for putting a smaller/offset air filter on there instead? I think the old dirty one looks kind of appropriate, but again, my goal on this car is to get good functionality rather than some sort of perfect restoration. After putting the new carb in, I put a bunch of vinegar in the radiator and ran it for a few days. Drained the coolant and flushed it over and over with water, then refilled with antifreeze + distilled water. There was a lot of poo poo in there, the coolant/vinegar mix came out pretty brown/red. Now, the temperature seems to stay pretty much right in the middle of the gauge. During the flushing process I also verified that the heater and heater fan do still work! That will soon be important, as will the choke cable. All in all, the car's been driving great since I got the new carb in. One day it seemed to flood the carburetor; I opened the hood to find fuel all over the carb and its mounting plate, steaming away. I let it sit for an hour, gave the carb a few taps with the handle of a screwdriver, got it started and drove home. I haven't had any problems since then, I'm thinking some gunk might have made it past the filter into the carb. Despite that one issue, I've been driving it to work a lot... although I really need to get a fire extinguisher.
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Oct 8, 2013 05:53
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Replaced the thermostat and its associated gasket today. The old gasket was stuck onto the outlet pipe pretty thoroughly, it took some time with a wire brush and a razor blade to get all the remnants off. I've installed a 180 degree thermostat; the manual says 170 degrees, Rockauto only had 160 and 180 so I figured I'd go a little higher, get a faster engine warmup maybe. Tested the thermostat before installing it, so I know it's ok. I haven't seen any temperature problems lately. Flushing the radiator with vinegar seems to have helped a lot. The battery went flat on me the other day, refused to start after I picked up lunch. I got a jump eventually and brought it home. Charging the battery now. I figure my short drives to work are to blame. It's getting cooler, so it has taken more cranks to start, and then I have to idle it before it'll drive or else the engine will shut off when I hit the accelerator. Combine a 2 mile drive to work, 5 minutes of idling before I can start, and a generator (rather than an alternator) under the hood, and that's probably a recipe for problems. I'm also going to get the battery tested to be safe, although it's pretty new.
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Oct 26, 2013 21:48
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BrokenKnucklez posted:This is a point to look into an alternator. I know that most guys switch over to the 1 wire set up and works pretty well I should be able to mount pretty much any alternator in there, right? It's been converted to 12V.
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Oct 26, 2013 22:49
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The Lark's being a pain in my rear end right now. I cleaned the ground contacts and when I went to re-connect the ground, small sparks jumped to the battery post. Disconnected the cable between the battery and the solenoid and started checking resistances. Open circuit at the solenoid post. That's pretty much what I expected... See that red fuse in there? It's inline with a smaller wire that goes straight from the battery through the firewall and into the cabin. Since it's not shown on the wiring diagram, I'm assuming it's for powering the stereo under the passenger seat. That wire is 0 ohms to ground.  This was also connected to the solenoid. As far as I can tell, this is where we get power for the ignition switch and the horn and basically every accessory in the car. 0 ohms to ground. That is the part that worries me. I'm now afraid that I may have a short somewhere in the wiring harness, which would not be fun; you can buy replacement, new-made harnesses, but I don't really want to do that. Any suggestions on how I might start debugging this?
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Nov 16, 2013 22:33
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Raluek posted:I would first remove the wire that goes to the stereo, that is your best bet for having your short. Or did you test continuity from your "everything not the engine" wire to ground with it disconnected from the battery terminal? Well, I feel like a dumbass now. After making my last post, I sat and thought a bit and came to some of the same conclusions as you. First off, it's not very useful to measure the resistance of the "everything not the engine" wire when the doors are open. When I closed them, I got a much better reading. Then I pulled the fuse on that other wire, just to see what would happen. Sure enough, the engine started cranking over. I like having a stereo, but I like having a working car more. I'll try to fix the stereo wiring later. The wiring under the dash needs work in general, too. There are switches under there with no apparent utility, and a light bulb just kind of dangling under the dash, and I would like to wire in the original radio too at some point.
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Nov 16, 2013 23:02
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What do you guys think is going on with this engine noise? This is accompanied by some engine shaking. https://vimeo.com/81960493 Sorry for the poo poo video quality, it sounds worse in person and I didn't want to run it very long. This was with a cold engine, I never saw this kind of behavior during the summer. I changed out the distributor rotor and cap, the plugs, and the plug wires today. The engine does the same thing now as it did before.
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Dec 16, 2013 02:23
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Filled up on gas today. About 10 mpg. These cars are supposed to be able to do 20 mpg, so something is up. Well, it probably doesn't help that I have been spending as much time warming up the engine as I do on my mostly short drives (to work or the parts store). The task for tonight is lubricating the distributor.
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Dec 17, 2013 23:02
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