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 The new series from Netflix is the best original show Netflix has produced so far. Where "House of Cards" was impressive for its ambition as an internet show and may not quite have lived up to the standards of HBO/Showtime in terms of writing, "Orange..." manages to be both ambitious and successful. It's from the same creator of Weeds. Premise (from wiki): quote:Orange Is the New Black revolves around Piper Chapman (Schilling), a woman from Connecticut, living in New York City who is sent to the women's Litchfield, NY federal prison for possessing a suitcase full of drug money for Alex Vause (Prepon), an international drug smuggler and Chapman's one-time lover. Sentenced to serve a fifteen-month sentence, Chapman must survive the hardships of prison life, and she may have to be a different person to do so. All of its 13 episodes recently became available for streaming. Reviews: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/orange-is-the-new-black_b_3612375.html http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/entertainment/articles/2013-07/18/orange-is-the-new-black-netflix-review http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/orange-is-new-black-tv-578162 Somebody fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 20:40
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Are we treating this thread like most Netflix shows - i.e. no spoiler tags, free talk about all episodes from the word go? *looks at rap sheet for accidentally typing 'quote' not 'spoiler' in the TV Chat thread, d'oh.*
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Jul 18, 2013 20:55
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nvm
jane came by fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 20:58
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Here's my post on the show from the chat thread:zoux posted:OK, Orange is the New Black:
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Jul 18, 2013 21:04
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I marathoned the entire thing this weekend and really enjoyed it. I thought everyone's performances were good, but I found myself more interested in what was happening with everyone except Pieper most of the time. Some of it was pretty predictable but other parts I managed to be surprised at. Slowly learning everyone's backstories and seeing who they are or were outside of prison was probably my favorite part. The cast of characters was impressive, and diverse, which was nice to see. (It still felt like there were too many white dudes in and around this story which was supposed to be mostly about women, though.) Kate Mulgrew was amazing, though her accent dropped a little bit here and there. Her story, both backstory and what will happen to her next season, is the one I'm looking forward to the most. I will agree with what zoux said above though, especially the spoilered part. It does have major problems and the ending to the season was... bad. And kind of nonsensical. I'm looking forward to being able to discuss it openly. Annakie fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 21:11
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zoux posted:Here's my post on the show from the chat thread: I'd disagree on this: 'Piper never feels alienated, abandoned, threatened or afraid, even though the show's dialogue tells us that she does.' There are a couple of good Piper breakdowns where she loses the false bravado and we see that she is completely broken. She withdraws and shuts down, which feels in line with the character. I don't know that I'd buy a big emotional outburst. When she accepts the reality of Red starving her out, and throws away the cornbread muffin - she's all alone in the middle of everyone, and clearly miserable. Later in the SHU we see another breakdown when the voice next door stops answering. They don't dwell on anything overmuch and have her rebound far more quickly than is believable, but it's in some way necessary to move the plot along. In fact, everyone sort of bounces back from a lot of awful poo poo, and that understatement made the horrible things seem even worse without belaboring the point. The spoilered poo poo is spot-on. It's like they didn't know how to fill an episode and just threw some poo poo at a wall. Engineer Lenk fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 21:41
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Annakie posted:I marathoned the entire thing this weekend and really enjoyed it. I thought everyone's performances were good, but I found myself more interested in what was happening with everyone except Pieper most of the time. This is pretty much how I felt, didn't really care too much for the 'out of her depth, pretty white girl' thing and the storyline in the outside world. Didn't hate it, and it's an alright entry into a show at least. Crazy Eyes, Yoga Jones, Nicols (?) etc were more interesting. It's very soap-ish, Lady Oz but it's enjoyable stuff and easy to watch a load of in a row. I'll be checking back next season.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:08
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Engineer Lenk posted:I'd disagree on this: 'Piper never feels alienated, abandoned, threatened or afraid, even though the show's dialogue tells us that she does.' I'm skipping the spoilers because the general rule for Netflix shows is that once it's out it's considered aired. The cornbread thing is actually the opposite of what you think it is. Her throwing away the muffin from Alex shows that she is actually standing strong in the face of starvation, as she is unwilling to accept a gesture from an enemy despite her great need. The starvation storyline was a real dropped ball. When Red gets in her face and yells "You aren't being hazed, you aren't being harrassed, you are being starved to death," I thought they were trying to say, "Hey your genteel rich girl ways aren't going to get you out of this one." But then she arts and crafts her way out of it and everyone was just so impressed at how hard she worked. If she was licking rocks for lichen and eating bugs, yeah that's suffering. Having your mouth burned a bit from eating jalapenos is not. The solitary thing is even more ridiculous, because again she stands strong in the face of an enemy (Healy in this case) despite her great need. Then she completely breaks down after maybe 36 hours alone in a room, which I don't buy at all. The gold standard for mental and physical torture from solitary is, imo, Steve McQueen in Papillion, so if you want to see that idea done well, check out that movie. As far as alienation, they miss so many opportunities to develop this. She gets assigned to the black dorms and you'd think she'd be rejected and isolated, but no, she instantly becomes friendly with all her dormmates, or at least non-confrontational. When she chews out her gruff (but with a heart of gold!) cellmate, instead of having her get shut down for thinking the movie cliche of standing up for yourself always works, they directly accept that cliche and she is endeared to her gruff cellmate for her spunk and moxie. She faces no consequences for the screwdriver incident, instantly patching up her relationship with the girl who went to SHU in her place by opening the track, even with the completely hackneyed "Oh ho don't think this makes us even" line followed by a self satisfied smile as Piper realizes that in spite of her gruff exterior, she is actually getting through to this woman (with a heart of gold!) I probably expected too much out of or something different from this show, but the kind of rave reviews this show has been getting from reviewers who I respect just baffles me. The pHo posted:Lady Oz It could not possibly be less this. The impression I get is that lady prison is like some sort of compulsory summer camp, not a Kafkaesque existential hellhole.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:13
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zoux posted:It could not possibly be less this. The impression I get is that lady prison is like some sort of compulsory summer camp, not a Kafkaesque existential hellhole. Oz is supposed to take place in a maximum security prison, right? They're clearly supposed to be in a minimum security setup on this show, with a maximum security setup somewhere else on the prison grounds.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:26
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hcreight posted:Oz is supposed to take place in a maximum security prison, right? They're clearly supposed to be in a minimum security setup on this show, with a maximum security setup somewhere else on the prison grounds. Sure but I've heard a lot of people make that comparison which is absolutely not accurate.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:29
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I think of it as Lady Oz due to the general feel of the storyline/character handling. Racial groups, back stories, fresh meat in a new environment, two faced characters etc. I loved Oz, and it's been a while since I watched it, I remember later seasons being balls to the wall bonkers though.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:33
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zoux posted:Here's my post on the show from the chat thread: zoux posted:OK, Orange is the New Black: This is pretty much on point. The show is worth watching, but not thinking too hard about and certainly not worthy of comparisons to better TV shows. It is a "women in prison soap opera" and you should expect nothing more from it than melodrama and over-the-top portrayals of stereotypes. The odd thing here is that the over-the-top roles are infinity more interesting and better acted than the more subdued roles (i.e. Crazy Eyes and Pennsyltucky.) B- feels about right.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:37
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The performances are very good, especially Mulgrew, Lyonne, Schreiber and especially especially Laverne Cox. Her backstory episode was so touching and heart rending and I don't know that I've seen a show do a better job humanizing and sympathizing what is probably among the most feared and misunderstood minorities in the US, transsexuals. I mean obviously they are humans, but they are so otherized that people just can't get past it and realize that they are just people too.
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Jul 18, 2013 22:41
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This show was great. It's compulsively watchable and there are incredibly few missteps in both narrative and dialogue. My favorite "DRAMEDY" in a long, long time. Nearly every single character chosen to get their own scenes are intensely well humanized and rise far above the cheap, pat caricatures that this type of setting's typical stock in trade is. I don't agree with any of the readings posted thus far, as it's reaching and misinterpreting too far into the creator's vision and unfairly placing an inexplicable weight of social responsibility upon it all at once. Just because a show is set in a prison doesn't mean it's contractually bound to be loaded down with patronizing, agonizingly joyless after-school special vibes TheRationalRedditor fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 23:05
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The pHo posted:I think of it as Lady Oz due to the general feel of the storyline/character handling. Racial groups, back stories, fresh meat in a new environment, two faced characters etc. I loved Oz, and it's been a while since I watched it, I remember later seasons being balls to the wall bonkers though. Then this is "Lady OZ" only as much as it's "Lady" every prison movie/show ever. I definitely agree with where zoux is coming from, which is part of why I think calling it "Lady OZ" is kind of insulting to OZ. As hamfisted as OZ could be at times, it really took the setting and hit it from all the angles. For every issue with OitnB outlined in that post, you can look at OZ to see it done right. Even the pageant: it was the only time I fast forwarded in the show, but OZ's first season had a "talent show" that did everything this one was trying to accomplish emotionally and way, way, more by being rock bottom for Beecher. It's nothing to do with levels of violence or prison type, OZ just clearly had something to say (and maybe a little too bluntly) where this show is just kinda meandering fluff that occasionally realizes there's something way bigger out there and shoehorns it in for a minute, before dropping it for more fluff. My favorite episodes were easily the first Mulgrew one and the back-story of the transgendered woman. These were why the show seemed so promising initially before settling for the easiest road (and definitely the most boring). TheRationalRedditor posted:I don't agree with any of the readings posted thus far, as it's reaching and misinterpreting too far into the creator's vision and unfairly placing an inexplicable weight of social responsibility upon it all at once. Just because a show is set in a prison doesn't mean it's contractually bound to be loaded down with patronizing, agonizingly joyless after-school special vibes If you like the show that's fine, but that's a false dichotomy. EvilTobaccoExec fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 23:08
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zoux posted:The cornbread thing is actually the opposite of what you think it is. Her throwing away the muffin from Alex shows that she is actually standing strong in the face of starvation, as she is unwilling to accept a gesture from an enemy despite her great need. There's a gradual acceptance of the unwritten rules over the course of that episode (not bitching to Healy after bitching to Mendez earlier), and I thought this illustrated that more than it reflected on taking aid from Alex.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:25
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:If you like the show that's fine, but that's a false dichotomy. Your comparison of the show to Oz is really muddled. You open your post by saying it's not "Lady Oz", but then you bend over backwards to try to posit that it somehow should be? They're very different animals with different objectives in the way they execute perspectives even though the narrative device is shockingly similar. Go figure, there's only so many ways you can make prison dramas compelling without essentially turning them into MSNBC's syndication docs. I'm not going to spend a sad number of words debating the merits of the show because I got what it was going for the whole time and it was intensely enjoyable against all expectation (post-S1 Weeds? lol). It's not exactly a mystery to me why this thing is reviewing through the roof from so many critics with experienced, credible voices. TheRationalRedditor fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 23:33
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TheRationalRedditor posted:It's not even a dichotomy, dude. I'm seeing complaints that the show didn't handle race with kid gloves in a tumblr-friendly fashion, and it's really, really clear to me that any such nannying message wasn't even on a list of priorities - humanizing the characters as complicated individuals was. I mean, getting distressed because Piper's stories weren't as interesting as other characters? Good, it's not exactly an accident that she looms around the edges of many episodes while they tell more immediate, compelling stories from a rich, deep cast of characters you will remember most of - a terrifyingly daunting task with a 13 episode order. You misunderstand the complaints. The dichotomy you presented was it's either exactly the show it is or the exact opposite as this fabricated "tumblr friend", "nannying" vision you've perceived, when the episodes I referenced were ones that managed to find a balance the rest of the show falls short off. Also you are way hostile about this show. Seriously, it's cool if you like it. Take it easy, man.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:49
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I also wish they would've made Pornstache two characters. Pablo's great at both the intimidating villian and the crass comic relief, but it's hard to laugh at a dude that rapes prisoners.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:10
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I didn't expect to watch the whole thing in three days, but I did. I loved each episode, and really am looking forward to the next season.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:17
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I'll just chime in to say this was a great season of TV. It certainly was not perfect or anything, but I've never watched a TV show that I unconditionally and unequivocally thought was perfect (yes that includes The Wire). At 13 hours, not every single scene is going to hit, but on the whole I thought it was great TV. I thought this season 1 review encapsulated my thoughts pretty much perfectly, from the overall impression/grade to how the little quibbles that I did have don't really matter in the grand scheme of the season. http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-complete-first-season,100179/ Breaking Bad is the only thing this year I expect to watch that I will enjoy more than this show. Just thought it was fantastic. e: Also, here's an interview with the show runner for anyone who's curious to get a look into just what she was trying to say or whatever. Personally, I think the talk above about "what's shes trying to say" to be a little ... melodramatic I guess. I went into this show basically blind and never once thought this say was trying to say or preach anything (other then general "prison reform" stuff) nor did I expect it to. Especially considering the comedic undercurrent it carries, it surprises me that some people were apparently expecting Wire-esque social commentary just because it got good reviews. Like the implication being good TV has to have "something to say" to truly be good/meaningful, which I guess might be a decent argument but I don't know if I buy it really. The show is unique, with mostly strong characters, and mostly strong narratives. I don't know if it really needs social commentary. Maybe the Oz comparisons create certain expectations although that's a really lazy and surface-level comparison because the shows really are not similar other than being set in prisons. And even the prisons are not the same between the gender and security levels (and the type of criminals within that type of security level) involved. http://www.hitfix.com/the-fien-print/interview-orange-is-the-new-black-creator-jenji-kohan-talks-prison-netflix-and-jodie-foster So It Goes fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 00:43
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I thought the show was pretty awesome, a (male) friend of mine watched it as well who did some time in medium security and he said that even though it's a women's prison it's the most honest portrayal of everyday prison life that he's seen on screen (the same guy hated Oz). Overall I thought it was great and all the characters were awesome, but there were a couple things I didn't like, some really out of place "feel-good" moments like the pageant and Taystee dancing her way out of the prison, and some of the storylines felt a little too unresolved at the end of the season. Also, it seemed like as soon as an episode focused on a character's backstory we saw significantly less of that character, like Janae who pretty much disappeared after her episode. Those are all just small complaints though, and it's a very good show, easily the best netflix series so far. I have no idea what actually happened in real life but I do hope that they don't (Finale spoilers)extend Piper's sentence as a result of the beating just to churn out more and more seasons. Kohan should learn from weeds and not drag the show out too long. Starks fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 01:25
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I'm really just happy to see Kate Mulgrew in a major tv show again. She's excellent. 
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Jul 19, 2013 02:17
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Aatrek posted:I didn't expect to watch the whole thing in three days, but I did. I loved each episode, and really am looking forward to the next season. I kept bracing for the line of dialogue that would falter as too cheesy, too cornball, and too on the nose and shatter the illusion of sustained radness like I suspect every non-HBO top tier classic to eventually hiccup, but it never came. The speech in this show was whip-smart all the way through. This is how you reference pop culture items without making an embarrassing forced spectacle of it each time. jane came by posted:I'm really just happy to see Kate Mulgrew in a major tv show again. She's excellent. Starks posted:Those are all just small complaints though, and it's a very good show, easily the best netflix series so far. I have no idea what actually happened in real life but I do hope that they don't (Finale spoilers)extend Piper's sentence as a result of the beating just to churn out more and more seasons. Kohan should learn from weeds and not drag the show out too long. TheRationalRedditor fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 02:53
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Piper making the Michael Jackson is white joke and doing the Thriller dance didn't strike you as cornball? My favorite line from the show was probably "It's racist to just say Africa"
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Jul 19, 2013 03:13
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It was cornball within her character, which makes all the difference because it's a deliberate choice and not an embarrassing misstep (she was wearing a goddamn maxi-pad facemask). One of the first things you learn about Piper is that she's a hugely oblivious, selfish, narcissistic dork, which is why that dark undercurrent of "prison teaches you the truth about yourself" is the recurrent theme in her struggle to grow and attempt change. The only time the show got close to harming credibility were musical cues here and there being too precious, but it didn't have much negative blowback on what actually transpired within the scene.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:21
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Yeah, the biggest wince moment for me was when she blew off Pennsatucky at the baptism. She was showing such excellent pragmatism, but her blinders reappeared. Prison is not the place to make some grand moral point about living authentically. Take the loving baptism, humor Pennsatucky, and generally defuse her anger enough that when you go back to sinning, she doesn't feel trampled upon. That's Piper's recurring problem. She makes a mistake, gets beaten down, and finally capitulates to whatever prison reality is manifesting itself. Then, just when she's about to slide back under the prison's notice, she gets a wild hair up her rear end and has to prove how clever and right she is.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:42
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TheBalor posted:Yeah, the biggest wince moment for me was when she blew off Pennsatucky at the baptism. She was showing such excellent pragmatism, but her blinders reappeared. Prison is not the place to make some grand moral point about living authentically. Take the loving baptism, humor Pennsatucky, and generally defuse her anger enough that when you go back to sinning, she doesn't feel trampled upon. That's Piper's recurring problem. She makes a mistake, gets beaten down, and finally capitulates to whatever prison reality is manifesting itself. Then, just when she's about to slide back under the prison's notice, she gets a wild hair up her rear end and has to prove how clever and right she is. Fittingly though, this last moment of sheer stupidity, combined with her ongoing "feud" with Healey, but her in a spot she couldnt reason, negotiate, or charm her way out of.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:14
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Natasha Lyonne is pretty good here. She knows the material well too, the whole thing about her having open heart surgery after being junked up for too many years? True story, that scar is real.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:38
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Orange is the New Black has some tonal and narrative missteps, but I don't think I've literally ever seen a television show before this that gave it's characters such deep level of humanity and dignity. Not depth, because that's English 101 for "woah I didn't expect to learn that about ___'s past!", but actually showing that the inmates are real people who exist and have existed outside the vacuum of both prison and television scripting. The COs and people outside being flat, one dimensional props helps exemplify this, but also shows the writers' inconsistency (having all the inmates being real, breathing human beings while making Mendez Sheriff Lamb from Veronica Mars and Piper's Brother a side character from an Apatow film could be intentional, but that might be giving the writing staff too much credit). Another thing I liked was Taystee not just being the 'institutionalized man' from Shawshank Redemption. Both the plot and the character do a good job outlining the trap cycle of poverty and incarceration.
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Jul 19, 2013 10:17
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I binged through it as well. Really enjoyed it. I think my favorite aspect of the show is slow transition of presenting Piper completely from her perspective as an innocent victim of past mistakes to showing her from other people's perspective as the selfish manipulator. I think that was really well done. As much as I love Breaking Bad, one aspect of that show I have never quite bought into is Walter White's transition. It's always seemed too drastic to me. In contrast, I think this show has done a better job by not showing a drastic change in Piper's character so much as changing the perspective in which you view her character. On the negative side, I'm not looking forward to the next season of this show. I think it would have been much stronger as a single season. Especially with all of the major conflicts coming to, mostly, satisfying conclusions. It feels like the next season they will have to reopen the existing conflicts or manufacture new ones. I'm afraid it will go down the path of Weeds where it starts with a strong premise and solid plotting, then just start to wander into sillier and sillier territory. For example, in the last episode it definitely felt to me like the writers were saying to themselves, "Ok, now how to we set things up so that she has to stay in prison?" By extension, that may be why Pennsatucky is, IMHO, the least believable character. She had to be in order to have the last episode work.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:27
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See I don't think they have to lengthen her sentence at all. The whole first season takes place over what, two months? They could get one or two more seasons out of her 15 month sentence and then they could explore her reintegration back into society for another one or two seasons.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:31
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zoux posted:See I don't think they have to lengthen her sentence at all. The whole first season takes place over what, two months? They could get one or two more seasons out of her 15 month sentence and then they could explore her reintegration back into society for another one or two seasons. I see what you are saying here and I actually think that this direction would make for a better show. However, after the events of the last episode, I don't think that's the direction the show is going in.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:38
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I thought she was thrown away during the Summer? I was thinking it was set over about 5 or 6 months in total.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:39
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They should switch to the 24 model and do it in real time.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:47
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Aatrek posted:I didn't expect to watch the whole thing in three days, but I did. I loved each episode, and really am looking forward to the next season. The original series are really dangerous since they make episode binging so easy.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:56
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The pHo posted:I thought she was thrown away during the Summer? I was thinking it was set over about 5 or 6 months in total. I believe it's early-mid fall when she goes in. IIRC the leaves had already turned the first time Larry hangs out with Piper's brother, and I think she had only been in prison for a few weeks at that point.
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Jul 19, 2013 18:41
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I liked it. For me the worst parts were the boyfriend parts, which made me just put the show in the background until it was over. One thing I'm a bit unclear on - the screwdriver - did they explain where the extra screwdriver in the truck came from, or was it just a drat lucky coincidence?
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Jul 19, 2013 21:41
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ymgve posted:I liked it. For me the worst parts were the boyfriend parts, which made me just put the show in the background until it was over. I figured Luscheck bought it to save himself the hassle.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:46
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ymgve posted:I liked it. For me the worst parts were the boyfriend parts, which made me just put the show in the background until it was over. Piper forgot the screwdriver in her pocket. Boo started using it as a dildo handle. The shop guy secretly replaced it because if it turned up in a prisoner's hands, he would be fired. Boo then later gave the dildo-screw back to Piper.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:47
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