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I just started playing Solforge recently and the more I play it the more impressed I get with how slick the core mechanics are, but goddamn does it have some serious problems. Is it still considered "early access" or are a lot of things locked in, and how often do they make major changes outside of the cardlist? Here's a list of things I hate;
Plus there's the UI problems, a lot of which seem like they could be fixed easily. I tried getting a friend to play when I got sick of seeing three legendaries pop out on turn one, but he couldn't take the UI. In no particular order:
Feel free to ignore my newbie spew (except for the last two bullet points, about the deckbuilder UI) but I just had to vent. Really neat game that's held back by a wide variety of issues, I hope they get around to addressing some of them even if others are intentional or unavoidable.
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Feb 26, 2015 22:14
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I'm actually really thrilled to see new people still checking out the game and giving some thorough discussion points, I just don't have time to go through your whole post to discuss things at this moment. I'll try to come back and actually contribute when I have some more time tonight, after the patch is live and stuff, but I'll just say for now that from what I can see, Yes, you pretty much get it. Great core mechanic with a really wanting execution in a lot of areas.
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Feb 26, 2015 22:56
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Abyssal Squid posted:
Like Merauder I'm glad new players are still checking the game out too, and a lot of the things you brought up have been consistent complaints about the game from the get go. It came out on steam in august of 2013 and they still conveniently wave around the "but it's just a beta guys!" shield whenever anyone criticizes the game. Total joke if you ask me, but whatever. The game still has a lot of rough edges. Legendaries are often better, and competitive decks can often be very legendary heavy, but not always. I think they've been getting better over time about making legendaries more "interesting" rather than raw stupidly powerful, but they still have a ways to go on that front. Wegu is pretty busted and is one card people have been asking to be nerfed pretty much since its release. They do nerf cards, but not always quickly enough. Thundersaur might not be good at the moment, but when it first came out it was super good, and could potentially be useful again in the future. For a while there was a meta that allowed for a yetis deck to be competitive and it played very few legendaries and was accessible for newer players, but that hasn't been viable for a while now. Also, they do "weekend warrior" special tournament formats with different rulesets that are often more accessible to newer players. For example, this weekend they are doing a format the community has dubbed "unheroic," which is decks with no heroic or legendary rarity cards allowed. Common and uncommon cards are incredibly cheap to forge with silver, so that makes for a super-accessible format. Every now and then they will do a "forgemaster" weekend event that allows people to make decks with any card in the game whether they own it or not just to try things out. Regarding stuff within a tier being out of balance, try to keep an eye on the set symbol to figure out what set # each card was released in. They've been experimenting with the power level on various types of cards over time. Some of the older cards end up looking woefully underpowered compared to newer ones as a result of this. They initially overvalued certain mechanics, like aggressive (compare lightning wurm, an original alpha card, to just about any other card with aggressive), and undervalued others. The in-game lag annoys me too. Look how fast it goes when you play the AI compared to online, gently caress the responsiveness is awful. The way they are handling data being passed is screwy in some way. The mobile clients are notoriously unstable and slow, which incidentally is one reason that they haven't implemented any kind of turn timer. The mobile clients are so lovely if they implemented a turn timer it would be unplayable on mobile. As far as matchmaking goes, the game doesn't really have that big of a player base, and again it is mobile focused. They want to get people into games faster at the expense of making more even matches. Lots of folks have asked for a deck valuation type of matchmaking but coming up with a good way to evaluate cards isn't all that simple. They do make a lot of higher rarity "fun" cards for example. There's also cards that can be used in competitive decks a certain way to make them really powerful, but can be played in a fun theme deck where that individual card isn't anywhere near as effective. Also, the random matchmaking queue DOES have a hidden matchmaking rating attached to it, although the game client does not indicate this at all whatsoever. If you lose a lot you should be getting easier opponents, but again the game's playerbase isn't all that big so the search criteria will expand and match you with someone over waiting for a more even match. All that said, I really do like the core mechanics of the game. And it is an extremely skill testing game with way more depth than you might think at first glance. If you can, give it some time, and consider hitting up the steam chat and asking in there for games. The community is pretty friendly and I'm sure you can find folks in there who would be willing to show a new player the ropes and play with toned down decks so you can have more interesting games.
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Feb 27, 2015 01:18
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Oh yeah, I'm not a rank newbie, I've been playing for a about a month and a half in spite of my complaints and I've got a handful of legendaries so it's not all sour grapes there. And yeah, it's not a hard-and-fast rule that legendaries are necessary to make a deck work (the deck I play the most lately is based on buffing Vault Blockades and holds up decently with zero legendaries and only four heroics) but I'm still glad that it's an issue they're working on. I've been playing the tournaments, they're another thing the game does well. I like deckbuilding even though I still have a lot to learn, and rolling round robin matchmaking makes actually playing a breeze. I'd like to see some kind of elimination format because that feels more like an actual tournament, but I don't really have any complaints about what they've got (other than including legendaries from all sets. Wegu!  ). I guess the draft deckbuilder having a different UI from the regular deckbuilder is annoying, too. Still, if they play their cards right I can see event tickets being the main revenue source for the game, compared to selling cards and packs directly.I've seen people say all that about the matchmaking, and that's a serious chicken-or-the-egg problem. Most of the people who play the game, who start most of the matches, have been playing for a while and have lots of resources, but there's not all that many players anyway so it's a shallow pool of matches. Because playing random matches mostly gets you experienced players messing around with legendary-heavy decks, it's hard to recruit new players and keep them around. And since I have a hard time convincing my friends to play, I don't know how long the game'll actually hold my interest, so I'm wary about putting money into it (I also played M:tG as a teen so I'm wary on that front D: ). But basically, if they put off dealing with the game's accessibility issues for too much longer I wouldn't be surprised if it fails to hit critical mass. I tried to get one friend to play it and he was too frustrated with the deckbuilder quietly allowing illegal decks and the confusing behavior of click vs doubleclick that he stopped playing, though mostly it was just to humor me in the first place. Anyway, I'll give the Steam group a look, that sounds like a good place especially considering how little interaction the client allows, though that part might be a matter of building around the mobile client again. For what it's worth, I've got a coworker who recruited me to play Ascension with her and it's hard not to make comparisons between the two games, that's what gets me thinking critically so much about Solforge. Ascension is still fun and I like the art direction a lot more (I'll take traditional media over photoreal digital art any day of the week), but the mechanics are pretty clunky in a lot of places. If the improvement between Ascension and Solforge is anything to go on, they've definitely got what it takes to make Solforge shine, though I guess they also didn't have any netcode in Ascension.
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Feb 27, 2015 03:15
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Ascension and Solforge are very different games though??
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Feb 27, 2015 03:18
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Yeah they're in completely different genres, but a lot of stuff in Ascension reminded me of Solforge and when I realized they were made by the same people I was like "oh that makes a lot of sense." The biggest one was the similarity between Ascension's "center row" and Solforge's "lanes," putting things into some sort of spatial context in a card game is something I've never seen anywhere else (I haven't played many recent card games).
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Feb 27, 2015 03:34
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Got to check out the campaign. It's pretty fun if a bit basic. I do love PVE in these types of games though, so keep it coming Stoneblade.
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Feb 27, 2015 14:49
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Yeah, that was interesting and a fun challenge. I look forward to more
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Feb 27, 2015 15:17
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Abyssal Squid posted:Yeah they're in completely different genres, but a lot of stuff in Ascension reminded me of Solforge and when I realized they were made by the same people I was like "oh that makes a lot of sense." The biggest one was the similarity between Ascension's "center row" and Solforge's "lanes," putting things into some sort of spatial context in a card game is something I've never seen anywhere else (I haven't played many recent card games). I've seen lanes in other card-type games, but SF might be the one that takes it farthest. Re: your giant list of gripes: Like Merauder I'd say you got most of it right. Having the benefit of perspective, I think you're exaggerating the rarity problems slightly... but only slightly. There have been times in the game's history where there were top-tier decks with few or no legendaries, and unless things have changed in the last couple of months, I would say play skill matters rather a lot more than the rarity of your deck. But all other factors being equal? Yeah, a lot of power is concentrated in the top end. I think they've done that in part to facilitate the separation of draft and constructed play within the same overall card pool, but it's still frustrating for anyone trying to keep up without spending a lot of money. Especially since they shitted up the tournament payouts to make it much harder to grind them out.
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Feb 27, 2015 15:28
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If they added drafting against the AI I would be so flipping happy, but the casual draft price is fair enough. I just HATE playing tournaments against people, it takes forever with the lovely stall tactics and play a turn every 20 minutes players.
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Feb 27, 2015 15:33
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Yeah, the campaign is pretty cool, I really like how it kickstarts a newbie's collection by throwing a guaranteed handful of high-rarity cards at you on your first day playing. Before, were basically three deckbuilding strategies available to newbies: stick with the starter decks, buy another premade deck, or scour the entire card database for cards that look interesting and pray. Now you get four booster packs, four heroics, and two powerful legendaries, which you can use as a starting point to look for combos. Plus, the guaranteed legendaries make that whole thing feel more fair. My first two legendaries were Rage of Kadras and Shallow Grave, which are good cards but not exactly deck-defining. The other stuff in the update looks cool too. Two-level creatures are a neat (and less gimmicky) variation on overcharge, and the cards with multiple options look extremely useful without being particularly powerful. The Torrent creatures, on the other hand, look awfully powerful. They've got good attack/health, plus you get a guaranteed free spell that turn, PLUS you add that spell to your deck. Maybe the drawback is that they clog your deck with so many Torrent spells that you draw entire hands with nothing else? Still, skipping level one with those things is huge, because otherwise it's basically a wasted action to level them. I'll have to look at the legendaries they introduced this time around, but at first glance the balance of this set looks pretty good overall.
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Feb 27, 2015 15:50
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Did anyone pick up any of the new packs/chests? I'm looking for 3 of the new Smolderscale Dragons, and have a ton of poo poo to share. Here's my sharable legendary list, and naturally have a ton of Heroics and below from every set. Figured I'd give Goons first crack at these before taking them to the public trading group on FB: 2 Abraxas, Avatar of Kadras 1 Ancestral Echoes (new from set 4) 1 Arcflight Squadron 1 Binben, Lightning Herald 2 Call the Lightning 3 Cindersmoke Wyvern 3 Delpha, Chronoscupter 1 Doomwing, Dire Drake 1 Dozer the Dormant 1 Draconic Echoes (new from set 4) 3 Drix the Mindwelder 1 Drix the Mindwelder AA 1 Flameblade Champion 1 Flowsteel Prototype 1 Gauntlets of Sulgrim 1 Ghox, Metamind Paragon 1 Hinterland Watchman 1 Immortal Echoes (new from set 4) 1 Iniog, Carion Demon 1 Iron Maiden 1 Kas Arcweaver 3 Keeper of the Damned 1 Killion, Infinity Warden 1 Korok, Khan of Kadras 1 Lucid Echoes (new from set 4) 2 Nefrax, the Soulweaver 3 Oreian Warwalker 1 Rageborn Hellion 1 Shallow Grave 2 Shardplate Behemoth (new from set 4) 2 Shardplate Mutant 2 Solstice Reveler 3 Steelscale Dragon 3 Synapsis Oracle 3 Talisin, Bard of Abundance 1 Tarsus Necrolord 1 Uterra Packmaster 4 Varna's Pact 2 Woebringer 1 Zimus the Undying 3 Zyx, Storm Herald
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Feb 27, 2015 20:21
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I tried the campaign. It's obviously geared towards very new players, which I guess is fine. Lord knows the game needs to attract more players. The first four missions were Baby's First SolForge. The last two were actually kind of fun due to the special effects though. I came close to losing the Cercee challenge playing a late-game A/T leveling/control deck but pulled it out with like 10 health left. I actually needed the Cercee for my collection, too, so that was nice. Hopefully they'll provide more missions for a variety of player levels in future releases. There's some promise with tossing crazy rules into the mix, but they need to ramp it up a bit to make harder missions.
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Feb 27, 2015 22:00
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The first 4 campaign missions were definitely tutorials, but I did like where they were going with the 5th and 6th ones. Reminds me of the Naxxramas levels from hearthstone a bit with the special effects. Will be fun to see where they go with it in the future.
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Feb 28, 2015 00:24
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Merauder posted:Did anyone pick up any of the new packs/chests? I'm looking for 3 of the new Smolderscale Dragons, and have a ton of poo poo to share. I have a stack of gold sitting around from when they converted tickets into gold a while back so I bought 1 set 5 chest because what the hell, and it had a smolderscale in it. I guess I'll trade it for an immortal echoes. I've never tried the share function yet either so I have no idea how the UI works.
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Feb 28, 2015 05:17
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I found trades for them in the FB group already, didn't think I was going to get any takers here after several hours, sorry man! However if there's anything on that list that you want (-2x Behemoth and -1x Immortal Echo) we could still do some swaps. You just make a new deck list in the Collection and hit Share, then select a username from your friends list and off they go! E: Also, my first draft of Cacklebones / Anvillon Arbiter deck is hilarious. Tossed in 3 Duskmaws and a bunch of other awesome Nekrium removal and just run a train, it works very aggressively if they can't remove Arbiter. Or maybe I'm just drawing really well 
Merauder fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Feb 28, 2015 |
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Feb 28, 2015 05:52
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I looked at the newbie Unheroic decklist and it looks like I pretty much have none of the cards. Mission 6 is pretty brutal and I wanted to get a legit deck to play against it.
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Mar 1, 2015 22:26
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I'm really loving my updated zombie deck. Abyssal Brute is a fairly nice addition, and Tarsus Necrolord is completely bonkers. Also, Xrath's Will lets you usually pick off those pesky Wegus (wegi?) before they can become unstoppable monsters! Core of the deck: 3x Zimus 3x Tarsus Necrolord 3x Corpulent Shambler 3x Xrath's Will 3x Epidemic 3x Group Meal And flavor to taste. Abyssal Brute, Xrath, and Darkshaper Savant are my current choices for non-legendary zombie padding. For legendaries, one Circee (which everyone has now) is a great emergency removal and on extremely rare occasions a win condition, and 3x Keeper of the Damned happens to amuse me while also being zombies. Fell Strider is another solid zombie option. Also, note that literally everything I just mentioned is Nekrium, which leaves some room for sprinkling in other legendaries of convenience (like the Oros everybody has) or spells of use. Bonus: tossing in one Circee gives you a really cool frontwoman in deck selection. The idea for this deck is basically to drown the board in zombies and increasingly ridiculous Necrolords and hopefully have a commanding lead by the dawn of rank 3. At rank 3, Zimus and Necrolords still allow ample opportunity for clawing back board control, especially in conjunction.
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Mar 1, 2015 22:26
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So, if anyone is still playing this: I just beat the Oros Challenge. Beat it using a Tarsus Deathweaver Deck, filled to the brim with Nuada's, Leafkin's, and three Zimus's. Grave Pact is a MUST against this challenge, because if he whips out an Arboris at level 3 and he has over 100 life, you can wipe it right off the board. It was all worth it though  Also, a question I'd like to pose: How the gently caress do you beat the Tempys Mastery challenge? I'm having such a hard time getting anything set up that I just cannot deal with the onslaught of aggressive creatures.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:02
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That's a crazy good chest you got. The Oros included is "AA" with "foil" effects if I'm not mistaken. As for the Tempys challenge, I think I beat it with a Nekrium/Alloyin deck, with tons of creature removal. Namely it uses Duskmaw (+Tendrils of course), Sorrow Maiden, Cacklebones, Anvillon Arbiter to negate Cacklebone's perk, and the new 3/3 6/6 9/9 zombie that destroys 3/6/9 ATK creatures. Then to supplement the removal it's got Group Meal, the new -4/-4 -6/-6 -8/-8 spell that is stronger when under-dropped, a couple Scythes, Epidemics, and Ironwings... that makes up most of the list if memory serves. Pretty much tons of ATK debuffs with creature removal, and by rank 3 you should pretty much be dominating the board.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:43
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That chest is a sick haul. I ripped an ancestral echoes from mine, so I'm happy with a new set legendary. Turns out this really old for-fun deck I made a long rear end time ago that I never bothered to update with newer cards works pretty well against most of these AI challenges. 3x thundersaur, darkheart wanderer, ferocious roar, heart tree, weirwood patriarch, fill out the rest with whatever. More ferocious roar type effects would be good. Just dick around and try to stick creatures on the board and keep them long enough to pump them with weirwood and roar. As for the tempys mastery challenge, I lucked out hard. I had 9 life left and the AI throws 2 lightning sparks at a thundersaur, allowing me to win the game on the next turn.  I agree on attack debuffs + creature removal, my deck had 3 epidemics in it and they were really good.
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Mar 16, 2015 23:54
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Alright. I haven't played since whatever expansion immediately after the one the first Forgeborn were in was released, so the campaign and challenges are new to me, and I have good legendaries, just not any of the new legendaries or heroic (or rare's or commons even). I might give this game another go though, now that they seem to have provided things to do other than just grind Matchmaking and doing the three daily matches.\ I'll look over my decks, update some things, see what I can do to get this Tempys challenge done. I already HAVE a Korok, but I'm not going to say no to another one. EDIT: Also before I forget, what does the "AA" thing mean? I get the holo effects, but is there a card ranking system within the rarity now? The Jumpoff fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 00:03
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AA = Alternative Art or something like that, just a way to tell you got a "fancy" card.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:54
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The Jumpoff posted:I might give this game another go though, now that they seem to have provided things to do other than just grind Matchmaking and doing the three daily matches.\ Tournaments are fun too, though I'm a much bigger fan of draft than constructed, because constructed is basically the same as regular matchmaking except I expect them to all be brutally efficient. "AA" means "Alternate Art" I'm assuming, which is usually something kinda goofy rather than the deadly serious high detail stuff on most of the cards. At this point I think I'm feeling better about Legendaries in general. As long as you've got some kind of creature removal they're mostly just a higher priority to remove than others, though they do force you to put in and level dedicated creature removal in a way that other cards don't. Wegu is absolutely bonkers though, if nothing else I feel like it should lose its powering-up abilities once it hits the threshold, or SOMETHING. What are the suggestions people have thrown out there, I can see the powerup being capped at the threshold, or changing the powerup to "each time you gain health this gets [some fixed bonus]," maybe both, but as it is it just grows way too fast to counter with any normal means. On top of that, you're going to have a ton of life-gaining cards in your deck, so that's already a chore to deal with. Thundersaur used to be a lot more powerful, what was it before it was 0/12 that gains attack equal to damage taken?
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Mar 17, 2015 00:57
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I'm pretty sure Tsaur hasn't ever changed?
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Mar 17, 2015 01:17
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Huh, J said up above that it was better when it came out, I took that to mean it was nerfed but it might have been something else that got nerfed and reduced the synergy.
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Mar 17, 2015 01:21
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Oh, thundersaur has always been 0/12, but when it first came out with the card pool available at the time it was super good. Good enough to jam into basically any deck that had uterra in it. You didn't always want to play it in certain matchups, but in the matchups where you did want it, it was amazing. Nowadays, it's still a pretty good card but not an auto-include in every uterra deck. It's far more situational. My earlier comment was more related to how thundersaur fit into the available card pool rather than any specific card nerfs. Although weirwood patriarch at the time had better stats and got nerfed from that era. (9/13 at level 2, 15/20 at level 3, card was ridiculous.) Just noticed I had an old growbots/thunderbots decklist saved, which is a good example. At one point this deck (or a variant of it) was the best deck in the format. Thundersaur is just kinda crammed in here because it was that good, and of course it went together amazingly with weirwood patriarch. 
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Mar 17, 2015 02:41
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I swear to god, playing through Matchmaking, they have done everything in their power to make Tarsus Deathweavers as inviable as possible. Either that or I just don't have the cards I need to update my deck against the new strategies, but I won one game out of, like, 15. I also remember why I stopped playing this game in the first place.
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Mar 17, 2015 08:30
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The RNG on this game is still driving me batty, but I design decks around eliminated it as much as possible. Still, it hurts when people swing full tilt with all their 50/50 swings
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Mar 17, 2015 16:27
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AxeManiac posted:The RNG on this game is still driving me batty, but I design decks around eliminated it as much as possible. Still, it hurts when people swing full tilt with all their 50/50 swings What kind of decks are you playing lately? Do you just run the random queue, or do you do the constructed tournaments? Speaking of tournaments, I'm super sad about the latest changes to the draft structure. There's no longer a format that allows you to keep what you draft and also earn Elite Tickets, and none of them have large silver payouts anymore. I used all the silver earned from drafting 2-2 and 3-1s to forge new legendaries. 
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Mar 17, 2015 16:56
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I just play my daily three against the computer for the most part. But now that you always get a ticket, I started playing the casual draft, you get to play with good cards and I like building decks. I can't stand playing matches online because they just take too long, people play like shits and I always lose. I have two favorite decks right now, one is the Draw Deck I made with cards to draw and level, while trying to bust out giant metaminds and the other is an movement deck that has those fireshapers that give +/+ anytime anything moves, along with creatures that move on their own or get bonus stuff for moving, like causing damage, drain attack, destroy creature.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:00
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Started playing this back when it was in a Humble Bundle. I like this game! The other day I finally got more than two wins in a draft, which felt pretty great. Also I'm kinda sad that the super-Oros mission is gone, because that was a fun match. Oh well. Could I get an invite to the steam group? Steam username is the same as here.
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Mar 27, 2015 00:15
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Article from the lead designer on the upcoming mini-set, with 2 spoilers: http://solforgegame.com/news/reign-of-varna-darkness-rising-is-coming/ He's the guy who created rage of kadras and wegu, so now you know who to be mad at!  I find it interesting that they admit the overall power level on alloyin has been low compared to the other factions and are trying to fix that. The angel they spoiled "to fight back against brood queen decks" doesn't seem like the kind of card you want to be playing against brood queen decks in the first place. But I could well be underestimating the effect on it.
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Mar 28, 2015 22:42
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New campaign mission out today if you feel like getting trolled.
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Apr 1, 2015 23:47
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Most people are finding the best way to defeat it is with heavy control decks, particularly Stasis Warden / Energy Prison combos. e: With Wegu as a finisher, I should add. Merauder fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 00:22
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J posted:New campaign mission out today if you feel like getting trolled.
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Apr 4, 2015 00:28
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ImperialGuard posted:Man, you weren't kidding. I get that they need to give the pay-to-win types something interesting or at least not trivial, but these campaign missions aren't even unfair for someone new like me. Are you doing the new Demara/Broodqueen missions? Or did you see the April Fools mission against DOOOM? If the former, they aren't that complex or difficult, each just has it's quirk and the idea is to learn new cards / strategies which play well against that particular scenario. If you're playing regularly at all, you should have at least some silver to be able to forge some new cards periodically, and since they changed the Event Ticket distribution to be off first daily win (instead of Online win only), you should be accumulating those as well and drafting (normal Draft, not Expert, so you get to keep the cards) and using that to help build your collection some as well.
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Apr 4, 2015 00:44
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I finally beat it using dinosaurs, thundarsaur and necro combo to reduce enemy health and cause breakthrough to beat both of them. The second one with the guy starting with a level 2 that grants EVERYTHING it plays aggressive was some bullshit
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Apr 4, 2015 14:46
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So has anyone tried playing with the new ultra-broken combo that exists since the latest patch? Here's a hint if you don't know about it yet: the deck/combo requires no legendaries and can win before rank 2! Herald of Destruction got buffed to hit players as well as creatures when he triggers, coupled with Uterran buffs like Lysian Shard and then using Phytobombs to deal insane damage to the dome. It's stupid, and surely will be patched out in some fashion next update, so "enjoy" it while you can!
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Apr 5, 2015 19:06
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Merauder posted:So has anyone tried playing with the new ultra-broken combo that exists since the latest patch? Here's a hint if you don't know about it yet: the deck/combo requires no legendaries and can win before rank 2! Can anyone share any of these? 3 Windspark Elemental 3 Malice Hermit 3 Cindersmoke Wyvern 3 Brimstone Tyrant
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Apr 5, 2015 19:42
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