Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
Selling a house.

no loving clue how

i imagine i will have to pay lawyers money and it makes the bile come up

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Elder Postsman
Aug 30, 2000


i used hot bot to search for "teens"

peepsalot posted:

its like 175/mo

oh that's kind of a lot

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






Jonny 290 posted:

Selling a house.

no loving clue how

i imagine i will have to pay lawyers money and it makes the bile come up

craigslist

graph
Nov 22, 2006

aaag peanuts

Jonny 290 posted:

Selling a house.

no loving clue how

you gotta get a realtor or look up how to do FSBO

GameCube
Nov 21, 2006

Jonny 290 posted:

Selling a house.

no loving clue how

i imagine i will have to pay lawyers money and it makes the bile come up

do you guys have those signs stapled to telephone poles everywhere that say I WILL BUY YOUR HOUSE SELL ME YOUR HOUSE PLZ why not just do that

power botton
Nov 2, 2011

FSBO: BYOB OH (open house)

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
yeah i'm going to make up a nice one-sheet about the house and then hit up every single property management company worth a poo poo in the area

i suspect a rental type would want to snatch up a property that mortgages for 600 and can rent for 1k easy

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
after getting pissed at how useless and frustrating SSIS is, i'm building a sql server bulk data copy tool in c# and winforms.

v1 is complete and does a naive copy of a list of tables while disabling and re-enabling constraints. (by 'naive' i mean it assumes the column schema matches 100% and even an extra nullable column will crash it)

future plans:
v2 i will make it asynchronous so it can do parallel loads (i believe i can do up to three simultaneously) and hopefully get it to the point where it can nicely handle tables where the columns are out of order or there are extra (nullable) columns in source or destination.
v3 i will save/load config files (right now i use it for one purpose so app.config is good enough).
v4 i would like to drop and recreate indexes and constraints before and after the run so it will be faster and i can use table truncates. right now it's doing unbatched deletes and that's super slow.

also i really should convert it to mvp and stuff all the goodies in a class library so i can reuse it in other places easier, right now it's all in the codebehind for the main form, heh

Dr. Honked
Jan 9, 2011

eat it you slaaaaaaag

01011001 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyiY_3cyEuo here's a robutt. only fell in once filming it, too

that's a gr8 robort

peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

        PEEP THIS...
           BITCH!

01011001 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyiY_3cyEuo here's a robutt. only fell in once filming it, too

Nelson MandEULA
Feb 27, 2011

"...the biggest shitbag
I have ever met."
i've been doing research for my sous vide thing and holy gently caress ive fallen down a rabbit hole. every question brings more questions:

do you want to build a sous vide machine?

yes.

ok. do you know how PID controllers work?

no.

do you want to know?

sure.

do you remember high school calc?

no.

okay, relearn all that poo poo, then research how a pid works. now, do you want to use a regular pid controller or an arduino?

i dunno.

okay, research them.

okay. i guess i want to use an arduino because its more customisable.

great! what kind of temperature sensor do you want to use?

a pt100.

cool. that's insanely and unnecessarily complex for this application, but i like your gusto! do you have an ic in mind to amplify the voltage?

huh?

okay, research that and decide. now, what ui do you want?

an lcd and four buttons.

you know you'll need a contrast pot for that, right?

ugh. that sounds unnecessary! i'll just set it once and never use it again. can't i use a resistor instead?

sure, but you'll need a voltage divider.

what's that?

research it. okay, now, here are the libraries you'll need for the pid software. you just need to write the code to get your pt100 to talk to it, and the 328p to talk to the ssr. got it?

but i don't know python!

learn it. now, that should all be done! you know how to wire it up, right? which resistors/caps/transistors to use?

no.

do you know anything about any of those things?

no.

okay, learn about them. now, what form factor do you want to use?

well, my hackspace has a solder reflow oven, so maybe i could use that...

do you know how smd and solder reflow works?

no, i can barely solder.

you know you're biting off more than you can chew, right?

...yes, but i'll do it dammit!

oh christ...

Nelson MandEULA
Feb 27, 2011

"...the biggest shitbag
I have ever met."
yospos i'm going insane. it's poo poo i don't know all the way down.

like, what the gently caress is this?!?



jonny, pls tell me that you were as naive as i was before you built raspberry high...

graph
Nov 22, 2006

aaag peanuts

WorkingPeer posted:

i've been doing research for my sous vide thing and holy gently caress ive fallen down a rabbit hole. every question brings more questions:

do you want to build a sous vide machine?

yes.

ok. do you know how PID controllers work?

no.

do you want to know?

sure.

do you remember high school calc?

no.

okay, relearn all that poo poo, then research how a pid works. now, do you want to use a regular pid controller or an arduino?

i dunno.

okay, research them.

okay. i guess i want to use an arduino because its more customisable.

great! what kind of temperature sensor do you want to use?

a pt100.

cool. that's insanely and unnecessarily complex for this application, but i like your gusto! do you have an ic in mind to amplify the voltage?

huh?

okay, research that and decide. now, what ui do you want?

an lcd and four buttons.

you know you'll need a contrast pot for that, right?

ugh. that sounds unnecessary! i'll just set it once and never use it again. can't i use a resistor instead?

sure, but you'll need a voltage divider.

what's that?

research it. okay, now, here are the libraries you'll need for the pid software. you just need to write the code to get your pt100 to talk to it, and the 328p to talk to the ssr. got it?

but i don't know python!

learn it. now, that should all be done! you know how to wire it up, right? which resistors/caps/transistors to use?

no.

do you know anything about any of those things?

no.

okay, learn about them. now, what form factor do you want to use?

well, my hackspace has a solder reflow oven, so maybe i could use that...

do you know how smd and solder reflow works?

no, i can barely solder.

you know you're biting off more than you can chew, right?

...yes, but i'll do it dammit!

oh christ...

you forgot to put funney emotes in

Moist von Lipwig
Oct 28, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
Tortured By Flan

graph posted:

you forgot to put funney emotes in

isn't that bannable now or was i just having a wonderful dream

coffeetable
Feb 5, 2006

TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

WorkingPeer posted:

yospos i'm going insane. it's poo poo i don't know all the way down.

like, what the gently caress is this?!?



jonny, pls tell me that you were as naive as i was before you built raspberry high...

this is a great thing you're doing, jumping in at the deep end. you'll learn an unbelievable amount if you stick with it, but it's going to take a while and you can't hope to do it all in one go.

what you need to do is come up with some subproblems that will be easier to solve. that'll stop you from burning out. in this case, they could be things like
  • setting some simple circuits up in an electronics simulator
  • getting an arduino board up and flashin' its LED
  • measuring the temperature of the water w/ the arduino board
  • turning a mains-voltage lightbulb on + off w/ the arduino board
  • dimming a mains-voltage lightbulb w/ the arduino board
  • learnin' a lil python
  • implementing a PID on the arduino

what you definitely shouldn't do is worry about all these things at once. come up with a list of two or three small subproblems, and forget about everything that doesn't contribute to solving those problems. you can come back and make a full design later on, and it'll be a much better design for all that you've learnt from the subproblems.

Nelson MandEULA
Feb 27, 2011

"...the biggest shitbag
I have ever met."

coffeetable posted:

this is a great thing you're doing, jumping in at the deep end. you'll learn an unbelievable amount if you stick with it, but it's going to take a while and you can't hope to do it all in one go.

what you need to do is come up with some subproblems that will be easier to solve. that'll stop you from burning out. in this case, they could be things like
  • setting some simple circuits up in an electronics simulator
  • getting an arduino board up and flashin' its LED
  • measuring the temperature of the water w/ the arduino board
  • turning a mains-voltage lightbulb on + off w/ the arduino board
  • dimming a mains-voltage lightbulb w/ the arduino board
  • learnin' a lil python
  • implementing a PID on the arduino

what you definitely shouldn't do is worry about all these things at once. come up with a list of two or three small subproblems, and forget about everything that doesn't contribute to solving those problems. you can worry about combining them later.

phew, thanks. it's good to know that i'm not being too stupid for jumping into this head-first. :unsmith: you're right: i've got to eat the elephant one bite at a time, as it were.

i guess my first task is to go out and buy an arduino and go from there. any recommendations of which model i should get?

a cyberpunk goose
May 21, 2007

coffeetable posted:

this is a great thing you're doing, jumping in at the deep end. you'll learn an unbelievable amount if you stick with it, but it's going to take a while and you can't hope to do it all in one go.

what you need to do is come up with some subproblems that will be easier to solve. that'll stop you from burning out. in this case, they could be things like
  • setting some simple circuits up in an electronics simulator
  • getting an arduino board up and flashin' its LED
  • measuring the temperature of the water w/ the arduino board
  • turning a mains-voltage lightbulb on + off w/ the arduino board
  • dimming a mains-voltage lightbulb w/ the arduino board
  • learnin' a lil python
  • implementing a PID on the arduino

what you definitely shouldn't do is worry about all these things at once. come up with a list of two or three small subproblems, and forget about everything that doesn't contribute to solving those problems. you can come back and make a full design later on, and it'll be a much better design for all that you've learnt from the subproblems.

yo could you recommend a good simulator? i keep finding lovely java ones but im convinced there's some nerdtool that is exactly what i'd like it to be (drag components onto a space and connect them and inspect voltage and see things happen etc)

coffeetable
Feb 5, 2006

TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY
example: for my climate sim, my early subproblems are
  • read a book on weather + climate. identify some simple climate patterns to make a hack at.
  • read a book on C#, solve a few project euler problems in it
  • install Unity and run through some tutorials
  • get Unity to display a blue sphere (using the C#)
  • get Unity to display some pre-calculated "wind arrows" on the blue sphere
  • write a single-threaded two-dimensional slow-as-poo poo fluid dynamics solver (using C#)
  • combine all of the above to simulate the wind on a flat, rotating planet
  • get disproportionately giddy about my miserable achievements

coffeetable fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Aug 29, 2013

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

WorkingPeer posted:

i've been doing research for my sous vide thing and holy gently caress ive fallen down a rabbit hole. every question brings more questions:

you could just do this

http://learn.adafruit.com/sous-vide-powered-by-arduino-the-sous-viduino/sous-vide

i mean yes you'll learn a shitload about the nitty details by rolling your own. but if what you want is a sous-vide that you can put together over a couple days/wees but still lets you hac all the pid stuff on your own time then this may be a way to go

coffeetable
Feb 5, 2006

TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

WorkingPeer posted:

phew, thanks. it's good to know that i'm not being too stupid for jumping into this head-first. :unsmith: you're right: i've got to eat the elephant one bite at a time, as it were.

i guess my first task is to go out and buy an arduino and go from there. any recommendations of which model i should get?

Mido posted:

yo could you recommend a good simulator?

i haven't played with electronics in years, and my knowledge isn't near extensive enough to make any recommendations on either of these, sorry :(. if no-one else jumps in, you might wanna go try the electronics thread in the DIY forum.

peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

        PEEP THIS...
           BITCH!

WorkingPeer posted:

yospos i'm going insane. it's poo poo i don't know all the way down.

like, what the gently caress is this?!?



jonny, pls tell me that you were as naive as i was before you built raspberry high...

PID is proportional, integral, differential

the overall concept is not that complex. you have an error function e(t) which is just (target value - measured value) for any given time t. now you calculate three different components of error

think of a line graph of your temperature on the y axis and time on the x axis

proportional is just how far away are you right now from target, this is the height difference for the latest point on the graph = e(t)
integral of the error with time tells you your history of cumulative error, aka the area under the curve = running sum of (e(t) * dt)
differential of the error is the rate at which you are approaching the target, aka the slope of your graph = (e(t) - (previous e(t))) / dt

dt is how often you take a temp sample in seconds or whatever (sample period)

each component gets scaled by its own K constant(Kp, Ki, Kd). you have to tweak these values to best fit your specific system

then you add up the three components and that gives you the value that you feed back into the system (heater pwm or whatever)

Nelson MandEULA
Feb 27, 2011

"...the biggest shitbag
I have ever met."

Sagebrush posted:

you could just do this

http://learn.adafruit.com/sous-vide-powered-by-arduino-the-sous-viduino/sous-vide

i mean yes you'll learn a shitload about the nitty details by rolling your own. but if what you want is a sous-vide that you can put together over a couple days/wees but still lets you hac all the pid stuff on your own time then this may be a way to go

yeah that's actually what i was initially looking at when i decided to try arduino rather than a normal off-the-rack pid controller. i will definitely base my design off of it to a large extent, and probably use their code. i don't actually want to integrate the full arduino into the final device, though.

Dr. Honked
Jan 9, 2011

eat it you slaaaaaaag

WorkingPeer posted:

i don't actually want to integrate the full arduino into the final device, though.

you'll need to explain this bit

01011001
Dec 26, 2012

re: arduino purchase

idk what you need specifically but usually your choice here is mostly how many inputs/outputs you need of each type (digital/analog in your case) and if you need some major built in feature (you dont). uno or mega 2560 (duemilanove or diecimila might do it too but those are p old now) are your best bets most likely due to being straightforward and less gimmicky than a lot of those offered

my amphibious robot up there uses a mega and it works p well even after its been submerged more than a few times

01011001
Dec 26, 2012

WorkingPeer posted:

i don't actually want to integrate the full arduino into the final device, though.

not 100% sure what you want to do then

Nelson MandEULA
Feb 27, 2011

"...the biggest shitbag
I have ever met."

peepsalot posted:

PID is proportional, integral, differential

the overall concept is not that complex. you have an error function e(t) which is just (target value - measured value) for any given time t. now you calculate three different components of error

think of a line graph of your temperature on the y axis and time on the x axis

proportional is just how far away are you right now from target, this is the height difference for the latest point on the graph = e(t)
integral of the error with time tells you your history of cumulative error, aka the area under the curve = running sum of (e(t) * dt)
differential of the error is the rate at which you are approaching the target, aka the slope of your graph = (e(t) - (previous e(t))) / dt

dt is how often you take a temp sample in seconds or whatever (sample period)

each component gets scaled by its own K constant(Kp, Ki, Kd). you have to tweak these values to best fit your specific system

then you add up the three components and that gives you the value that you feed back into the system (heater pwm or whatever)

that's a very good concise explanation of it, which is surprisingly hard to find on the internet.

i like this video because it explains it using a car analogy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfAt6hNV8XM

peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

        PEEP THIS...
           BITCH!

Mido posted:

yo could you recommend a good simulator? i keep finding lovely java ones but im convinced there's some nerdtool that is exactly what i'd like it to be (drag components onto a space and connect them and inspect voltage and see things happen etc)

you could try this one, it looks kinda polished but i haven't really used it
https://www.circuitlab.com/

i think there is also a fruit tablet version

Nelson MandEULA
Feb 27, 2011

"...the biggest shitbag
I have ever met."

Dr. Honked posted:

you'll need to explain this bit

as in i want to use the arduino as a testbed and usb interface to program the microcontroller, then pop out the microcontroller and build a circuit around it from scratch. so i can just buy another 328 and reuse the arduino. like so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCGzKDTFBSQ&t=855s

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
https://github.com/jonny290/yosvape/blob/master/yosvape.ino

the core of yosvape is just a fuckin straight import of the arduino PID library. i didnt even change the constant names i was so lazy

i never messed with the PID tuning library that is meant to work alongside the PID lib itself, but i heard it can help you get it pretty decently tight, tweak from there.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

01011001 posted:

re: arduino purchase

i tend to use teensys for all quick hacks nowadays cause they're cheap and light and small and can be usb peripherals too! also im pretty sure they have more flash than any of the regular arduinos and they definitely have more ram. to run them away from a computer you just need a 5v supply which can be as simple as a 7805 (though i bought a pile of $3 hobbyking switching ubecs that make a great alternative)

it's like yeah you can program a dip mega328 and put it on a custom pcb with the other components and make it all pretty but you're probably only making one of the things anyway so i just solder a bunch of flying leads and dead bug stuff to the teensy and stick it in a box

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

oh and for the really tiny things i use msp430s. you can program them with arduino code if you download energia and those chips are cheaaaap

Dr. Honked
Jan 9, 2011

eat it you slaaaaaaag

WorkingPeer posted:

as in i want to use the arduino as a testbed and usb interface to program the microcontroller, then pop out the microcontroller and build a circuit around it from scratch. so i can just buy another 328 and reuse the arduino. like so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCGzKDTFBSQ&t=855s

arrr i see

01011001
Dec 26, 2012

Sagebrush posted:

re: re: arduino

good to know if you have more stomach than me for wiring, for sure. my setup is a drat mess as it is

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

Mido posted:

yo could you recommend a good simulator? i keep finding lovely java ones but im convinced there's some nerdtool that is exactly what i'd like it to be (drag components onto a space and connect them and inspect voltage and see things happen etc)

didnt bother to look to see if this is answered but there's about a million spice variants that you could use. i usually use ltspice for no particular reason. its free and has the features you mentioned.

Nelson MandEULA
Feb 27, 2011

"...the biggest shitbag
I have ever met."

Jonny 290 posted:

https://github.com/jonny290/yosvape/blob/master/yosvape.ino

the core of yosvape is just a fuckin straight import of the arduino PID library. i didnt even change the constant names i was so lazy

i never messed with the PID tuning library that is meant to work alongside the PID lib itself, but i heard it can help you get it pretty decently tight, tweak from there.

did you autotune the yosvape, or tune it manually?

graph
Nov 22, 2006

aaag peanuts

CALCULUS N*GGA

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

actually dealing with solving the differential equations for a tepid pool machine sounds completely overkill. stick in a large K, a medium D, and a small I and try it out.

Nelson MandEULA
Feb 27, 2011

"...the biggest shitbag
I have ever met."

Bloody posted:

actually dealing with solving the differential equations for a tepid pool machine sounds completely overkill. stick in a large K, a medium D, and a small I and try it out.

uh i'll stick with my large d, thanks very much. :wiggle:

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

WorkingPeer posted:

did you autotune the yosvape, or tune it manually?

nah i started with some generic constants and then tuned a _bit_ but not even much. then i just proportionally bumped those up for the less active modes.

I really need to do an adaptive algorithm that starts out vague and gets more accurate over time, but it does have a bit of an oscillation problem if you time the hits wrong, so you can't get too aggressive with the PID constants

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Nelson MandEULA
Feb 27, 2011

"...the biggest shitbag
I have ever met."

Jonny 290 posted:

nah i started with some generic constants and then tuned a _bit_ but not even much. then i just proportionally bumped those up for the less active modes.

I really need to do an adaptive algorithm that starts out vague and gets more accurate over time, but it does have a bit of an oscillation problem if you time the hits wrong, so you can't get too aggressive with the PID constants

who knew weed could be so complicated?!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply