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shoeberto
Jun 13, 2020

which way to the MACHINES?

hbag posted:

autism

Covid vaccines already give you autism and 5g hth

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Sweevo
Nov 8, 2007

i sometimes throw cables away

i mean straight into the bin without spending 10+ years in the box of might-come-in-handy-someday first

im a fucking monster

Luigi Thirty posted:

My logic analyzer arrived! I don’t have probes for it yet (they’re arriving this week) but it passes its built-in self test.

it’s an HP 16700A analyzer with a 16557 135MHz sampling card. runs a locked-down HP-UX with some sampling and analysis software on top. can be remote controlled over the network if I can find the right software too.

i've been after a cheap logic analyser for ages, but everything round here gets sold without probes making it literally useless because the probes NEVER come up for sale. buying from the US is also out because Americans cannot seem to understand that its possible to send things internationally without using $300 guaranteed overnight shipping.

i missed out on a fully loaded HP 1653B for £75 last year because the owner decided selling it as "collection only" in the middle of a pandemic lockdown was a great idea.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

hbag posted:

i might be loving around with a switch soon so whats the best way to run 11-ish meters of ethernet cable from 1 room to a room more or less directly above it without drilling holes in poo poo
keep in mind there IS a staircase just outside both rooms

3M Command brand products. they make a variety of hooks and clips that adhere to the wall with a double sided sticker, and the sticker comes off clean when you remove it. here's one

https://www.command.com/3M/en_US/co...93786499&rt=rud

Agile Vector
May 21, 2007

scrum bored



hbag posted:

wouldnt a wireless bridge defeat the whole point of using ethernet


or am i completely wrong about thinking that wireless is slower than hardwired poo poo

Sagebrush posted:

It depends on the number of antennas in your device but 802.11ac can hit over 1 gbps, same as gigabit ethernet. Minimally you should get around 400 mbps.

yep

the benefit here was the lack of wires through new wall holes. my internet speed was lower than my wireless bridge, and all the devices that needed wired speeds were on the local switch, so they never experienced wireless speed limits. the bridge was stable and fast since it was a single connection with a fixed distance so i could find the best signal location

Lutha Mahtin posted:

3M Command brand products. they make a variety of hooks and clips that adhere to the wall with a double sided sticker, and the sticker comes off clean when you remove it. here's one

https://www.command.com/3M/en_US/co...93786499&rt=rud

these were handy for wiring a college apartment years ago! i ran a 50 ft line down a hallway back in the days when wireless was expensive. a nice solid 100 mbit back when that was something

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

does anyone still do powerline networking?

psiox
Oct 15, 2001

Babylon 5 Street Team

Sagebrush posted:

does anyone still do powerline networking?

not personally but i've had a few people try it out and it seems Fine; better than it used to be but still not a 'real' replacement for ethernet. it sounds like it kinda depends on your wiring, though, so maybe try something from amazon or wherever that could let you do a return if it's not working out

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull
yes there's tons of powerline ethernet gizmos out there

they are not a guaranteed solution. if the two outlets are on separate power circuits they might not work, and even when they are on the same circuit, if there's other noisy poo poo on the circuit it might cause problems

psiox
Oct 15, 2001

Babylon 5 Street Team
i really wonder what kind of traffic you could intercept outside someone's place though, at least wireless stuff is usually somewhat encrypted

Hed
Mar 31, 2004

Fun Shoe

Sagebrush posted:

It depends on the number of antennas in your device but 802.11ac can hit over 1 gbps, same as gigabit ethernet. Minimally you should get around 400 mbps.

Why do you need transfers that fast anyway

Isn't WiFi going to be half-duplex across all devices?

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


if i can stream some youtubes on full hd over my wifi, then surely if i stream from a device on my local network, then that will be faster in terms of network latency

Hed
Mar 31, 2004

Fun Shoe

drat I remember when command.com was a joke website for DOS/Win9x folks

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

Hed posted:

Isn't WiFi going to be half-duplex across all devices?

your choice of channel can have a big impact here

Trig Discipline
Jun 3, 2008

Please leave the room if you think this might offend you.
Grimey Drawer

Luigi Thirty posted:

your bits are gonna get all confused

everybody goes through that at some point, it's perfectly natural

hbag
Feb 13, 2021

Lutha Mahtin posted:

3M Command brand products. they make a variety of hooks and clips that adhere to the wall with a double sided sticker, and the sticker comes off clean when you remove it. here's one

https://www.command.com/3M/en_US/co...93786499&rt=rud

interesting
how do they do with wallpaper cos uh all my walls are wallpapered

Doc Block
Apr 15, 2003
Fun Shoe

hbag posted:

wouldnt a wireless bridge defeat the whole point of using ethernet


or am i completely wrong about thinking that wireless is slower than hardwired poo poo

wireless is slower, but there’s no way your Raspberry Pi NAS connected to a 2.5” 5400 RPM external hard drive is gonna saturate it.

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

shoeberto posted:

If your stepdad said no then it just means you need to ask your mom.

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

hbag posted:

... if you can get flat ethernet cables this poo poo's going to be a lot easier

you can get Ethernet cable that’s basically as thin as cardstock, it’s been incredibly useful to keep a sizable length rolled up to about three inches diameter and a half cm thick in my laptop bag, with one end permanently plugged into a USB-C/gigabit adapter

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

BobHoward posted:

yes there's tons of powerline ethernet gizmos out there

they are not a guaranteed solution. if the two outlets are on separate power circuits they might not work, and even when they are on the same circuit, if there's other noisy poo poo on the circuit it might cause problems

just use double-ended power cords to bridge separate circuits














(do not do this ever)

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

hbag posted:

interesting
how do they do with wallpaper cos uh all my walls are wallpapered

i don't think i have ever tried them on wallpaper, but i have used them on lots of other surfaces. i have always had good luck with getting the adhesive stuff off but ymmv

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

Sweevo posted:

i've been after a cheap logic analyser for ages, but everything round here gets sold without probes making it literally useless because the probes NEVER come up for sale. buying from the US is also out because Americans cannot seem to understand that its possible to send things internationally without using $300 guaranteed overnight shipping.

i missed out on a fully loaded HP 1653B for £75 last year because the owner decided selling it as "collection only" in the middle of a pandemic lockdown was a great idea.

HP 40-pin probes seem to be all over eBay. I don’t have anything with the fancy connectors for the super high channel density ones but I got two sets of new flying-lead 17-channel ones for $80.

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

eschaton posted:

just use double-ended power cords to bridge separate circuits














(do not do this ever)

oh pff my dad’s band did this to power their lighting rig at biker bars in 1970s Michigan

how they didn’t burn down the entire state I don’t know

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



So I got the bright idea that I wanted to hack the HUD on my car to display more than the usual speed/nav info. I ordered a HUD assembly from ebay for $100 and have found that it has a Fujitsu graphics driver that is primarily driven by an automotive pixel link (APIX). To upload sprites/use them on the graphics driver I need a 105 Mb/s LVDS source, or if I want to pass through my own image data I need a 1 Gb/s LVDS source.

I am thinking that to do this I will need an FPGA, and the Artix-7 T35 would be a good choice for this. Digilent makes a cheap ($100) board for this. I have the datasheet for the graphics driver so I know all the registers and timings at least (I love that at the bottom of every page it says proprietary and confidential despite being on their website and freely searchable).

The idea is that I will put this inline between the normal data path from the gauge cluster (that uses an Altera Cyclone II FPGA) in to a mux that will let me select between the stock input and my FPGA. Then using mine I can take data from the CAN bus and use that to display things like speed, boost, afr, etc. so I don't have to do the more dangerous method of having them on a phone/tablet.

I have heard that I am in for a world of pain when it comes to programming FPGAs, so that'll be fun. The good news is that if I can get it to work there's probably quite a few people that would be interested in buying them.

The alternative is to replace the graphics driver with something of my own, but that would likely inhibit stock operation as well as other things the Fujitsu chip does such as stepper motor control for moving the image around and day/night sensing and brightness control.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

Minnesota Mixup posted:

So I got the bright idea that I wanted to hack the HUD on my car to display more than the usual speed/nav info. I ordered a HUD assembly from ebay for $100 and

this is the good stuff right here

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

there don’t seem to be any official M68K in-circuit emulation stuff from Agilent for these analyzers. oh well

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Luigi Thirty posted:

there don’t seem to be any official M68K in-circuit emulation stuff from Agilent for these analyzers. oh well

Keysight :)

there is, the 68K inverse assembly stuff should work on the 16700 too

you likely need the in-circuit emulator pod though, since that’s what handles all of the necessary timing and latching to record everything as a sequence of bus state transitions instead of a huge amount of timing information

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?
I’ve actually been talking to someone on Twitter about these ICE pods—the idea being that if I can find one, he can RE the mechanisms it relies upon

the code for the 68K inverse assembler is part of Keysight’s inverse assembler SDK too, so once we have a schematic for the ICE pod itself we have a complete way to develop additional pods for other CPUs

e.g. one could make a pod that allows capture and analysis of something like QBus, Unibus, or Omnibus :)

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

eschaton posted:

Keysight :)

there is, the 68K inverse assembly stuff should work on the 16700 too

you likely need the in-circuit emulator pod though, since that’s what handles all of the necessary timing and latching to record everything as a sequence of bus state transitions instead of a huge amount of timing information

aha. Google says they’re rare and expensive and even rarer and expensiver if you want DIP support

there’s lots of ICE modules on eBay but none for CPUs I’m interested in

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



Well deciding to do this HUD thing has sent me down quite the rabbit hole. I believe I've figured out how the APIX frames work in general but it's going to take quite a bit of work to get that working + the side-band that it uses in the SerDes chips. In the case of the video driver for the HUD it has configurations the rx for 18 and 24 bit width frames in . From an application note I found with 24 bit width at maximum clock rate for transfer the max bandwidth is 847.2 Mbit/s. This means that there's another 4 bits per frame of overhead that I will need to figure out. I believe this is the side-band clock, side-band data (2 bits per frame) and the pixel clock for the total of 28 bits per frame maximum. It also appears to encode data across multiple frames, so if you have 24 bits of RGB + the control data of 3 bits + 4 bits overhead for a 28 bit frame, it will take the first 21 bits of the RBG data with the first frame and put the other 3 in the next frame, and if there was another 24 bits of RGB it'd take however many bits of it it could in the next frame etc.

For now I'm going to buy the proper transceiver chip to do this to cut down on design time, then start hunting for a used logic analyzer that's capable of 4-5 GS/s, which I'm sure will not be cheap.

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Luigi Thirty posted:

aha. Google says they’re rare and expensive and even rarer and expensiver if you want DIP support

there’s lots of ICE modules on eBay but none for CPUs I’m interested in

you could always take a look at the code for the 68K inverse assembler, it’s rather straightforward and it should make clear (when compared to the 68K bus timing charts) just how it’s latching the traffic and triggering the analyzer to grab it in state rather than timing mode

for something like the 68K series or SCSI-2 or ISA it can probably all be handled via some TTL

then you could also make blinkenlights

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?
here’s the 10391B Inverse Assembler SDK direct from Keysight

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

eschaton posted:

you could always take a look at the code for the 68K inverse assembler, it’s rather straightforward and it should make clear (when compared to the 68K bus timing charts) just how it’s latching the traffic and triggering the analyzer to grab it in state rather than timing mode

for something like the 68K series or SCSI-2 or ISA it can probably all be handled via some TTL

then you could also make blinkenlights

oh, huh. ok, cool.

I’m currently working on designing my 68k’s bus logic in Logisim, then I’m going to transfer it to Diptrace and build up a parts list to order.

I’ve still got the MAME driver here and my system overview but I don’t have my schematics anymore.

- 8MHz 68000
- 2x 512Kx8 EEPROMs at $000000
- 2x 512Kx8 SRAMs at $800000 (expandable to 8MB maybe?)
- 68901 MFP and 68681 DUART for serial interfacing and peripherals at $400000

simple enough to get started. I’ve had “build 68K system” on my back burner forever and now with my analyzer I can finally do it. so excited

Sweevo
Nov 8, 2007

i sometimes throw cables away

i mean straight into the bin without spending 10+ years in the box of might-come-in-handy-someday first

im a fucking monster

that's not a million miles from what i've been dicking around with, except i went with the 68008 because i found one in a box. so it's an 8mhz 68008, 128K RAM, 128K ROM, and a 68901 doing all the i/o

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



Guess I'm going to be spending some money on a logic analyzer. There's some mid to late 2000s ones that will do 3 gbit/s analysis which is perfect for what I want to do. Will run me 3-5k for them though. Oh well 10-20x cheaper than they'd of been new...

How the hell do people even do analysis on modern high bandwidth protocols? Do you use multiple channels and offset the trigger by the minimum time of the analyzer? Or do you have to deserialize it first and then look at that? Modern fpgas have 50+ gbit/s+ transceivers in them.

hbag
Feb 13, 2021

https://sa-probebadge.herokuapp.com/
made a thing to generate a signature badge about how long youve been probed for in total

Drastic Actions
Apr 7, 2009

FUCK YOU!
GET PUMPED!
Nap Ghost

hbag posted:

https://sa-probebadge.herokuapp.com/
made a thing to generate a signature badge about how long youve been probed for in total

i think your math might be off.

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus



I've really been slacking

hbag
Feb 13, 2021

Drastic Actions posted:

i think your math might be off.


it is off it turns out but 12+ years is accurate for me actually

git apologist
Jun 4, 2003

hbag posted:

https://sa-probebadge.herokuapp.com/
made a thing to generate a signature badge about how long youve been probed for in total

you might have a bug

code:
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'get_text'
gotta handle the 'not found, idiot' case

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

My username seems to break your program.

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Armitag3
Mar 15, 2020

Forget it Jake, it's cybertown.


Also disable debug in production. It's an env variable if I recall correctly with flask

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