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Sorbus posted:I bought a ~$30 Asus Xonar DG soundcard with a headphone amp. Holy hell what a difference! I use Superlux HD 681 EVO's, really good for their price. Definitely are way better than their price!
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Mar 7, 2014 07:31
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grack posted:If that's the case a simpler solution might be a short headphone extension cable. You can get them for like $1.50/piece on eBay. Point taken and a solid suggestion sir.
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Mar 7, 2014 21:54
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PretentiousFood posted:On the other hand, high end DACs sometimes use more interesting circuitry that will have an audible impact, for better or for worse. In the case of DACs, the choice of output filter can absolutely impact fidelity and be a source of measurable and audible distortion. 16-bit DACs that actually have more than 10 or so bits of dynamic range are surprisingly scarce. And while it's true that it's fairly trivial to design an amplifier with a low noise floor in 2014, that isn't to say that they'll always be vanishingly low. Anyone who's tried sensitive IEMs straight out of your average phone has experienced this. Add output impedance, intermodulation distortion, and phase response metrics, and it becomes pretty easy to justify the differences people are hearing between systems. Sorry but thats a load of wank. No one has ever ABX'd competently build dacs.
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Mar 8, 2014 14:05
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. My main point is that it's true that most DACs sound very similar, but the fact that the HD800s are particularly picky about amps (again, due to measurable things like output impedance affecting bass response) and that all of these DACs essentially have the same I/V and output stages will mask differences between the actual DAC implementations, which are still quite similar. The choice of DACs is relevant given the reader base, but differences would be a lot more obvious between DACs that use different topologies, such as an the Metrum non-oversamplign DAC vs a Schiit DAC vs some R-2R DAC.
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Sure they have. Here's a list of published articles and forum posts where people have done exactly that. It's not a particularly interesting read, but you have a good mix of success and failure. The CD player tests should also be relevant. There are also a couple of people who passed ABX while picking at random (p=0.003). Since there are so few properly documented tests, especially with headphones, I think it's a lot more interesting to discuss circuit design as the mechanism behind perceived differences. PretentiousFood fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Mar 9, 2014 |
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Mar 9, 2014 16:39
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PretentiousFood posted:Sure they have. Here's a list of published articles and forum posts where people have done exactly that. It's not a particularly interesting read, but you have a good mix of success and failure. The CD player tests should also be relevant. I cant find any successful ABX of DACs in that list. Theres lots for amps, mostly fails, but none of the tests are isolating the DAC. The closest one is this, but its in French and doesn't appear to isolate the dac. [French] CD Players. 96 kHz 24 bits recordings from low end DVD player vs low end DVD Player + external DAC (success), then from CD Player vs Discman (success). http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=169329500 Im genuinely interested in seeing a passed test. Edit: Googled my heart put. Still cant find any. Your generous admission that "most DACs sound very similar" is wrong. They sound the exact same. bpower fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Mar 9, 2014 |
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Mar 9, 2014 17:20
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I purchased a set of ATH-A900X several months ago and have been very impressed with the sound/build quality. Are there any IEM phones of similar price/quality I could shoot for? I would just about exclusively wear them indoors, being very cautious in my handling of them.
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Mar 9, 2014 18:12
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Shif posted:I purchased a set of ATH-A900X several months ago and have been very impressed with the sound/build quality. Are there any IEM phones of similar price/quality I could shoot for? I would just about exclusively wear them indoors, being very cautious in my handling of them. If you find a pair that sounds like the A900x let me know, because I would jump on them instantly.
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Mar 9, 2014 19:17
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Midorka posted:If you find a pair that sounds like the A900x let me know, because I would jump on them instantly. Sure thing, might be hard to come by though. I came from a $50 headset so these are literally ear sex.
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Mar 9, 2014 19:23
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No iem will give you the same enjoyment as a full size can. They can give equal or more enjoyment but it will be different. The most obvious loss is the bass and soundstage, but in return you'll get better detail and clarity (black background, music separation). I dont know if you've used iems with excellent isolation before but for me theres something really lovely about listening to music at low volume in what you know is a noisy environment. The jump from lovely ear buds to good $200 iems might be bigger than $50 headset to those cans. I wouldn't try to find iems just like the A9s. Possibly look for one with the same "signature", but then focus on sq,comfort, durability etc.
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Mar 9, 2014 20:03
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What exactly is isolation? And I'm guessing soundstage is something along the lines of where the instruments are setup vs the direction in which you hear them?
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Mar 9, 2014 20:25
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Shif posted:What exactly is isolation? And I'm guessing soundstage is something along the lines of where the instruments are setup vs the direction in which you hear them? Isolation is how much the phones reduce the noise around you, or how much they isolate you from that noise. Often it's measured in decibels so you can usually compare models, although you have to take that with a grain of salt because different ear tips have different isolation levels.
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Mar 9, 2014 20:38
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Shif posted:What exactly is isolation? And I'm guessing soundstage is something along the lines of where the instruments are setup vs the direction in which you hear them? Yeah sorry. Didn't mean to spew jargon like that. Isolation is how much outside noise is blocked by the 'phone. Measured in dbs. Top class examples being Etymotics. Yes exactly that, soundstage is the illusion of physical pace the 'phone provides. People will talk about the size of the sound stage, how far away or near it sounds. They may say its wide (left and right) or deep (front to back). I think some people refer to the illusion of direction as "imaging". Id imagine your A9s are quite good at all that. Good iems will have a smaller soundstage, but they can have freaky accurate imaging. Like most things in headphones, subtle differences in soundstage and imaging are only noticed when giving the music a lot of attention. If you're just cruising around the supermarket humming to pops tunes its not going to matter (btw I loooove doing things like this with iems).
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Mar 9, 2014 20:45
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I tend to listen to a good bit of classical, so this "imaging" in an actual listening scenario could be "Wow, that trumpet sounds 15 feet away from me!" kind of approach, no? I may be mistaken... On the other hand, yes the soundstage is superbly evident when I can hear clarinets and strings on the left phone while flutes and cellos are prominent on the right. I really do like the idea of the IEM discreteness. Would a good pair hold up to running/working out or should I just low ball a cheapo pair that won't explode after a couple sessions?
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Mar 9, 2014 21:13
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Shif posted:I tend to listen to a good bit of classical, so this "imaging" in an actual listening scenario could be "Wow, that trumpet sounds 15 feet away from me!" kind of approach, no? I may be mistaken... Thats right, its perceiving, lets say in a piano concerto, that the piano is 20 feet in straight in front, the horns are further away and the timpani is even further away but a bit to the left. Id love to know how much of this is reconstructed by the brain because it "knows" where the instruments should be, but some 'phones definitely do it better that others. You've hit on the major weakness of iems. Durability is a big problem for me. I try to be careful with them but they just keep breaking . I've gone thru about a 1000 bucks in the last 5 years. Now I don't spend more than 70ish on iems I intend for everyday use. Maybe start with a cheapish pair first? Theres other "features" of iems that you may not like. They can be divided into two types. Vented where some air can get in or non-vented, a bit like open and closed full size cams. Non-vented, like Etys, have more isolated but they can also create an unpleasant vacuum in your ear. This is a complete deal breaker for some. Some have bad "microphonics" meaning sounds made by things rubbing against the cable are amplified and heard very clearly. They're no good for the gym. Vented iems dont suffer from this as far as I've experienced. Here's a massive list of eims reviewed by a very well respected reviewer. Theres a huge amount of info there. Id suggest going to your price bracket and ignore the rest. http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-311-iems-compared-hisoundaudio-ba100-added-03-06-14-p-878 Be careful if thats your first time on Head-Fi. The amount of gibberish on there is amazing.
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Mar 9, 2014 21:48
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Agreed, Head-Fi does have a ton of gibberish but did they manage to steer me in the right direction when it came time to purchase new cans. It's unfortunate IEM's have a bad rap for breaking, lovely gym music it is then. I do however have a question regarding the ear pads on my A900X's... I normally wear contacts when I'm on the computer but from time to time I'll wear my glasses. The ear pads provided put a bit of pressure on my temple/ear that ultimately cause discomfort after 2-3+ hours of listening. Is it possible for a newbro like me to replace them (minimal tools mind you), with something that might stick out a little longer from base of the cans?
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Mar 9, 2014 22:04
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If your primary listening source is an iOS device, CanOpener is always worth a look. Most of the time, "imaging" has more to do with the parent file and source than your headphones, so modifying the signal there is what you should be looking to do (if you really care about that sort of thing).
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Mar 9, 2014 22:11
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WugLyfe posted:If your primary listening source is an iOS device, CanOpener is always worth a look... Is that available on the Android platform?
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Mar 9, 2014 22:15
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Shif posted:Is that available on the Android platform? Unfortunately not yet.
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Mar 9, 2014 22:21
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PretentiousFood posted:Sure they have. Here's a list of published articles and forum posts where people have done exactly that. It's not a particularly interesting read, but you have a good mix of success and failure. The CD player tests should also be relevant. The relationship between a digital audio signal and its analog counterpart is completely, 100% lossless and accurate all the way up to its Nyquist frequency (which for a 48khz signal is 24khz - well above the threshold for human hearing). A correctly built DAC (not necessarily well built; correctly built - which is to say "not wrong") will create a verifiably perfect reproduction of the waveform up to Nyquist. If a DAC does not do this, it is faulty. Not 'cheap', not 'low quality', absolutely and completely broken.
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Mar 9, 2014 22:24
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WugLyfe posted:If your primary listening source is an iOS device, CanOpener is always worth a look. Most of the time, "imaging" has more to do with the parent file and source than your headphones, so modifying the signal there is what you should be looking to do (if you really care about that sort of thing). To be honest I never understood the exact difference between imagining and detail retrieval, especially in IEMs. KillHour posted:The relationship between a digital audio signal and its analog counterpart is completely, 100% lossless and accurate all the way up to its Nyquist frequency (which for a 48khz signal is 24khz - well above the threshold for human hearing). Exactly. Its a well solved problem at this stage. And yet almost every DAC review talks about the sound quality. I've never seen a review starting with "Like all DACs its transparent, now lets get on to the meat of the review; features and aesthetics".
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Mar 9, 2014 23:25
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bpower posted:You've hit on the major weakness of iems. Durability is a big problem for me. I try to be careful with them but they just keep breaking . I've gone thru about a 1000 bucks in the last 5 years. Now I don't spend more than 70ish on iems I intend for everyday use. Maybe start with a cheapish pair first? Theres other "features" of iems that you may not like. I've broken exactly one set of IEMs in the last 5 years, and that's because they got caught on a doorknob and ripped the cord on one side. If you keep breaking them it's something you're doing.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:29
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grack posted:I've broken exactly one set of IEMs in the last 5 years, and that's because they got caught on a doorknob and ripped the cord on one side. If you keep breaking them it's something you're doing. Dude I know that but I dont know what the hell Im doing wrong. I baby them as best I can. Two 325 shures gone to cable fray, one vsonic g07s from a short at the jack and another from a shorted driver. I just bought a pair of cmk500s for 50 or 60, they'll probably see me buried. A work buddy has 10 year old pair of shures, they look brand new and he just plops them on to his desk and sticks them in his pocket on the way home.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:46
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bpower posted:I cant find any successful ABX of DACs in that list. Theres lots for amps, mostly fails, but none of the tests are isolating the DAC. The closest one is this, but its in French and doesn't appear to isolate the dac. If you're looking for an ABX in a headphone system where DACs are tested with controlled source/transport, headphone, and amplification variables, I've got nothing. Even the Tom's Hardware test didn't bother to test the line out with an external amp; does that mean they didn't isolate the DAC? The reason why CD player tests are fair game is because they're essentially a DAC with an integrated transport. The implication of them sounding different while DACs are indistinguishable is that the source of distortion lies either on the digital side, or in the CD's mechanism, at which point the signal is still digital. KillHour posted:The relationship between a digital audio signal and its analog counterpart is completely, 100% lossless and accurate all the way up to its Nyquist frequency (which for a 48khz signal is 24khz - well above the threshold for human hearing). If by "verifiably perfect" you mean within the limits of audibility, then sure. But the waveform will absolutely not be indistinguishable from the digital source waveform. The DAC chips themselves do the conversion just fine- Nyquist is only really useful for frequency and phase response anyway, and I'm not arguing that DAC chips will affect either of those. The low frequency rolloff measured on the Realtek codec isn't due to the DAC or Nyquist, but probably some dumb output coupling capacitor. Pairing that with the HD800's nonlinear impedance, the high output impedance (78R per the article), and the capacitor will basically produce a second order filter. Most DACs are oversampling, which means that their output is the sum of the audio band signal and an integer multiple of the sampling frequency. Since the sampling noise is a square wave, you need to pass DC to a couple of megahertz just to get the first few harmonics, at least for the I/V stage. The problem's not at all solved; there are still papers being published by the AES and Analog devices (big PDF, relevant stuff pg 5.125) on how to improve the fidelity of these I/V and output stages.   (Schiit Gungnir measurements from Changstar) This is a -90dB 1kHz sine wave, coming out of a 32 bit DAC. 32 bits should produce a SNR of 192dB, but the second harmonic is only down ~110dB and there's a -120dB spike at 21kHz, limiting the system to 20 effective bits. THD is 19%. No, these aren't listening conditions, and no, the reduced bit depth will not be an issue with music.   On the NOS side of things, you end up with with a lovely 44% THD, filter ringing, and high frequency rolloff. It could very well sound identical to the Schiit DAC, but neither offers "verifiably perfect reproduction of the waveform," at least in the technical sense. Neither of those are really built wrong. TI's own datasheet for the PMC1702, a well-regarded R-2R DAC chip (available in current products though not in current production itself), specifies the use of a third order FDNR which results in about 32dB of dynamic range, which has become industry standard. I've seen variations on this circuit being used in most commercial DACs I've popped open. One last link. It's long, but a guy from ESS gives an excellent talk at RMAF describing how their DAC chips work, and difficulties they face in creating a chip that sounds good. The guy's an engineer, not an audiophile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CkyrDIGzOE
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Mar 10, 2014 03:09
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grack posted:I've broken exactly one set of IEMs in the last 5 years, and that's because they got caught on a doorknob and ripped the cord on one side. If you keep breaking them it's something you're doing. Yup. Stop treating your IEMs like $5 earbuds. Don't shove them in your pocket, wrap them around your iPod, and etc. It's not rocket science of how to take care of things. Then again, I don't think some people have any idea what it means to take care of something as judged by the growlers I fill at work... I just finished a review of the Meelectronics Atlas. It's always hard giving a poor review to a company that I genuinely like, but the Atlas fail on a lot of marks for me. Midorka fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 06:32
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I apologize if this isn't really the thread for this but I'm looking for a pair of bluetooth headphones I can wear to the gym. Audio quality isn't super important it's for the gym. It's more about zoning out and not hearing old people. I mean I generally just use the earbuds that came with my iphone, but I'm kinda sick of wires. I've owned 3 pair, the LG Tone I believe it's called which was pretty good but died after about a year ( wouldn't charge up ) since then I've tried 2 cheap dealies I found on amazon which both turned out to be crap. Is there a decent pair or a recommended brand? I'd prefer in ear or earbud style if possible.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:50
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bpower posted:Dude I know that but I dont know what the hell Im doing wrong. I baby them as best I can. Two 325 shures gone to cable fray, one vsonic g07s from a short at the jack and another from a shorted driver. I just bought a pair of cmk500s for 50 or 60, they'll probably see me buried. I keep blowing mine at the 3.5mm jack and I take care of them with small exceptions... Do what I'm going to have to do, firstly buy a pair with a replaceable cable and use an extender so the jack isn't in the pocket with my phone.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:52
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Scrubed posted:I keep blowing mine at the 3.5mm jack and I take care of them with small exceptions... I suck at fixing stuff. I asked a guy to fix them for me, but he never did it. Would a first year EE student be able to fix them? I think I have one in the family.
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Mar 12, 2014 21:02
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Scrubed posted:I keep blowing mine at the 3.5mm jack and I take care of them with small exceptions... If it keeps breaking at the same spot then you really need to stop whatever behavior is causing it.
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Mar 12, 2014 21:08
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Opinions on a Schiit Vali / Modi stack for HD 800s? I love my Essence STX, but don't want to open the PC just to use my cans with another PC.
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Mar 12, 2014 21:13
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I just bought a set of SE215s but I'm less than impressed with the fit in my ear. I ride the bus from PA to NY for work daily, and the ride was painful with the plastic rubbing on my inner ear. My last headphones were Sennheiser CX-985s but the volume control slider started becoming a scratchy mess. Would you guys have any other suggestions for using my iPhone as the daily source? I also have an E17 if needed but I would like to not exceed 200 on IEMs. I'll be taking the Shures back to B&H so if there is a recommendation to pick up from there, even better.
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Mar 13, 2014 03:09
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Do you have duo or tri flanged tips to try? That should provide a tad bit of separation.
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Mar 13, 2014 03:56
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Midorka posted:Do you have duo or tri flanged tips to try? That should provide a tad bit of separation. I think it's simply the way the back of the earbud rubs against my ear which is why it's so painful. I have comply tips on the sennheisers though which are pretty dang comfortable.
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Mar 13, 2014 04:03
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I'm still waiting for amazon.ca or a local retailer to stock the a-Jays Five because I am set on getting those. Although I am a little worried about the fit.
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Mar 13, 2014 04:45
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priznat posted:I'm still waiting for amazon.ca or a local retailer to stock the a-Jays Five because I am set on getting those. Although I am a little worried about the fit. The a-JAYS Five are great if you don't need the mic/remote. I could wear them down and get a good sound but they felt loose to me.
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Mar 13, 2014 04:48
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I'm trying to find a new pair of headphones that will work with the following bits and baubles: Budget - <$300, preferably Source - Wired Isolation Requirements - None Preferred Type of Headphone - Over-ear, though perhaps not as open as the Grado, as I'd like to be able to use these while I'm more out and about Preferred Tonal Balance - Balanced is fine, as I listen to a bit of jazz, older rock/folk Sources used: 1st Generation iPod, iPhone, MacBook Pro, though I'd like something that performs well with audio above 44.1Khz as I'm looking to get more into FLAC/HDTracks Past Headphones - Grado SR-60/SR-80s, and Etymotic HF-3s I'm currently debating between the AKG 701, the Grado 125i, the B&W P5s (due to discount), but will gladly accept other contenders Any help given would be greatly appreciated!
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Mar 13, 2014 08:24
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I am in the market for some new IEMs as my wife broke hers, and I gave her mine.  The ones I was using up to now, I really liked. It's a pair of Bose IE2's. But seeing as Bose is litteraly the devil (  ), I am wondering if there's anything else out there for me.What I really liked about the Bose's was the way they fit in the ear. I especially liked the retention thingamajig that goes up your ear and holds it in place. It's very comfortable and very secure. Furthermore I like the fact that they have zero insulation from outside noise, so I can hear what's going on around me. The last bullet is not at all a requirement though. As for sound quality, I think they perform alright for IEMs. They dont give me as good sound as my over-ear headphones, but they're leaps and bounds better than the ones that came with my phone.   Budget - up to 150-200 USD, but I am living in europe so everything's kind of expensive here. Source - I am using these with my Oppo Find 5 smartphone. Isolation Requirements - Not a requirement. Preferred Type of Headphone - IEM Preferred Tonal Balance - Balanced, leaning towards bass-heavy. Past Headphones - See above. Preferred Music - I listen to all kinds of music, but mainly rock and hip-hop.
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Mar 13, 2014 10:17
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Pappyland posted:I'd like something that performs well with audio above 44.1Khz as I'm looking to get more into FLAC/HDTracks Don't get hung up on this. Detail is detail. The signal is analog well before it gets to the headphones.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:41
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I have the same set of Bose IE2s, and like them for the same reason. I really dislike the feeling of something in my ear; I own a pair of Klipsch S4i's, which sound fantastic, but I personally find them uncomfortable to wear. I've also found that I dislike the distant, hollow sound of my own voice on a conference call. Why do people dislike Bose? Is it the quality itself, or just the quality at their price point? Is there another IEM that sits outside of the ear similar to the IE2, but with a better sound or mic quality?
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Mar 13, 2014 17:29
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Pappyland posted:Preferred Type of Headphone - Over-ear, though perhaps not as open as the Grado, as I'd like to be able to use these while I'm more out and about The K701's are going to be just as open as the Grado's and are pretty drat bulky to use out and about. I just picked up a set of NAD Viso HP50's for $300 and they're the best headphones I've owned. They're full size but get pretty flat for portability.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:51
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Incredulous Dylan posted:Opinions on a Schiit Vali / Modi stack for HD 800s? I love my Essence STX, but don't want to open the PC just to use my cans with another PC. I'd personally stick with solid state and use the Magni but that's just my personal preference. You never really know what you're gonna get with tubes. If you enjoy accurate recording reproduction, a solid state will leave you satisfied nine times out of ten.
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Mar 13, 2014 18:43
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