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victrix
Oct 30, 2007





Hi, I've played Dice Legacy

Weird cool game, but I think it's much less roguelite than a management/builder game with a weird twist, I have no idea what thread it belongs in :v:

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FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


Since this is also sort of the "metaprogression game" thread... Please don't buy "The last spell".

Unless they massively change how the game plays it will stay a terrible grinder game where you simply cant win until you have 10-20 "runs" under your belt.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


Lol, you can win on run 3 if you're good, run 4-5 if you merely know what you're doing.

I also do not understand some people's obsession with "winning". Just going as far as you can is fun enough at times.

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011





FrickenMoron posted:

Since this is also sort of the "metaprogression game" thread... Please don't buy "The last spell".

Unless they massively change how the game plays it will stay a terrible grinder game where you simply cant win until you have 10-20 "runs" under your belt.

I won like, 3rd or 4th run. I would say very conclusively that the 1st run is functionally impossible but that's purely because you lack access to critical buildings. You need gold mines, scavenger camps, the Inn, and the Seer to win reasonably. You just don't have access to those in the 1st run, and that's annoying and I would say bad game design. But you should have them by like, 5th run at the latest, along with decent walls and probably ballistas, and that's all you need.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


Honestly, my biggest beef with TLS is that some of the meta progression trivializes the game pretty hard, but that's stuff that can be fixed.

Wait for release, but check out the OST in the meantime.

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011





my biggest concern with TLS is that the company that makes it seems to have like ten different early access games they're trying to juggle and as a result they take ages to actually update anything

TLS has not received a single substantial update since I bought it months ago

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


The meta progression aside the balance of the game is completely whack. And I was reaffirmed on this opinion by every single youtube "guide" for the game bascially saying only use these weapons and/or exploit glitches.

It's just not a fun game. Shame about the art / music going to waste.

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011





FrickenMoron posted:

The meta progression aside the balance of the game is completely whack. And I was reaffirmed on this opinion by every single youtube "guide" for the game bascially saying only use these weapons and/or exploit glitches.

It's just not a fun game. Shame about the art / music going to waste.

oh yeah, just the basic nature of the combat mechanics makes it so that ranged weapons are inherently much better than melee for like, a ton of reasons. Add in the fact that crossbows and pistols both have weird/bad range restrictions and magic chews more mana than you can usually afford and the pool of good weapons really gets narrowed down to just rifles and bows. The other ones aren't unusable, though. I've beaten runs of only magic and only melee. The melee one was the most fun, too, since an optimal ranged weapon run really just boils down to clicking the "shoot gun" button on the big enemies until all of your guys run out of AP and then letting ballistas mulch all the little ones for you. I'd still say it's fun, though.

Wouldn't necessarily recommend buying it, though, although now that I've checked they have recently promised that they're putting out a big update in a couple of weeks.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

FrickenMoron posted:

Since this is also sort of the "metaprogression game" thread... Please don't buy "The last spell".

Unless they massively change how the game plays it will stay a terrible grinder game where you simply cant win until you have 10-20 "runs" under your belt.

I won on my fifth run, and I absolutely could have won earlier if I stuck to the stuff that immediately stood out as very powerful instead of experimenting. If anything, the problem with the game is that it's pretty easy to solve for what it is and the metaprogression makes the game even easier.

I think the only "this is literally impossible" run is the very first one, because you simply don't have the economy buildings yet. Second run should be very doable if you knew exactly what you were doing.

cock hero flux posted:

my biggest concern with TLS is that the company that makes it seems to have like ten different early access games they're trying to juggle and as a result they take ages to actually update anything

TLS has not received a single substantial update since I bought it months ago

This is the main issue. The game really badly needs serious balance work done to it to keep it fresh, encourage you to actually use all of the options they give you, and to actually vary the approach you have to take instead of simply doing the One True Build Order, but it's kind of twisting in the wind. It got an update in July that added some UI quality of life and character appearance customization but gameplay-wise it's still in the exact same state it was on release.

It's a shame because I really really like it.

cock hero flux posted:

oh yeah, just the basic nature of the combat mechanics makes it so that ranged weapons are inherently much better than melee for like, a ton of reasons. Add in the fact that crossbows and pistols both have weird/bad range restrictions and magic chews more mana than you can usually afford and the pool of good weapons really gets narrowed down to just rifles and bows. The other ones aren't unusable, though. I've beaten runs of only magic and only melee. The melee one was the most fun, too, since an optimal ranged weapon run really just boils down to clicking the "shoot gun" button on the big enemies until all of your guys run out of AP and then letting ballistas mulch all the little ones for you. I'd still say it's fun, though.

Wouldn't necessarily recommend buying it, though, although now that I've checked they have recently promised that they're putting out a big update in a couple of weeks.

Mages don't really use more mana than anyone else - everyone is going to be spamming 1 and 2 mana abilities for most of their clearing, you just prioritize a couple mana regen powerups or wedge in a mana well once you get your unbeatable economy rolling.

1H crossbows and druid staves are probably the most powerful weapons in the game. Shortbows are really good, longbows and rifles are good and very fire and forget, daggers are actually really good(because they're actually a ranged weapon despite being a melee weapon).

Kanos fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Sep 10, 2021

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011





Kanos posted:

Mages don't really use more mana than anyone else - everyone is going to be spamming 1 and 2 mana abilities for most of their clearing, you just prioritize a couple mana regen powerups or wedge in a mana well once you get your unbeatable economy rolling.

1H crossbows and druid staves are probably the most powerful weapons in the game. Shortbows are really good, longbows and rifles are good and very fire and forget, daggers are actually really good(because they're actually a ranged weapon despite being a melee weapon).

I always found that mages did use more than anyone else, generally because magic weapons have such bad 0 cost abilities compared to ranged weapons.

1H crossbows and throwing knives are good but they don't have enough range. The most effective way to play, unfortunately, is to just park everyone in watchtowers and have them delete enemies as they walk into range. The reason for this is because as long as your guys don't need to move and are never in danger you get to use 100% of their item slots just buffing up their damage output, and the end result of that is just a ridiculous level of firepower that can 1 round the boss and trivializes everything else.

Hand crossbows and throwing knives are quite powerful, but in order to use them you either have to put them outside of the walls or wait until enemies are a lot closer than is healthy. The first one requires you to give them kit that lets them move around and not die, which means their damage output suffers. The second one usually results in increasing damage to the walls, which costs you material, and they don't tend to have the range they need to cover a whole wall section by themselves either.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

cock hero flux posted:

I always found that mages did use more than anyone else, generally because magic weapons have such bad 0 cost abilities compared to ranged weapons.

1H crossbows and throwing knives are good but they don't have enough range. The most effective way to play, unfortunately, is to just park everyone in watchtowers and have them delete enemies as they walk into range. The reason for this is because as long as your guys don't need to move and are never in danger you get to use 100% of their item slots just buffing up their damage output, and the end result of that is just a ridiculous level of firepower that can 1 round the boss and trivializes everything else.

Hand crossbows and throwing knives are quite powerful, but in order to use them you either have to put them outside of the walls or wait until enemies are a lot closer than is healthy. The first one requires you to give them kit that lets them move around and not die, which means their damage output suffers. The second one usually results in increasing damage to the walls, which costs you material, and they don't tend to have the range they need to cover a whole wall section by themselves either.

I generally stop using free attacks on every weapon as a primary form of attack except to dump excess AP past like, night 2. Everyone is always going whole hog on spamming their powerful spells every turn and I don't really run out of mana because one or two levelups on mana regen or an early mana well will keep you rocking indefinitely.

You really don't need to waste resources on armor or defensive stats for 1H crossbow users, even on the ascension levels or whatever the hell they're called because I can't remember, because they put out so much insane aoe damage with just a couple of multistrike or propagation bonuses that they can clear entire waves before being touched. You have a LOT of room to play with outside the walls once you get your Seer up and continually push back the fog, so you can keep your 1H xbow user outside the walls and still have room to maneuver without the enemy ever getting in range to hit them or hit a building, especially once you initiate plan Unlimited Ballistas Everywhere Because Ballistas Are Stupidly Overpowered.

Daggers require some defensive stats just in case because they're not quite as insanely busted as 1H xbow, but the tradeoff is that they require no offensive stats besides +poison damage and +multistrike to completely melt waves into puddles of goo.

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011





Kanos posted:

I generally stop using free attacks on every weapon as a primary form of attack except to dump excess AP past like, night 2. Everyone is always going whole hog on spamming their powerful spells every turn and I don't really run out of mana because one or two levelups on mana regen or an early mana well will keep you rocking indefinitely.

You really don't need to waste resources on armor or defensive stats for 1H crossbow users, even on the ascension levels or whatever the hell they're called because I can't remember, because they put out so much insane aoe damage with just a couple of multistrike or propagation bonuses that they can clear entire waves before being touched. You have a LOT of room to play with outside the walls once you get your Seer up and continually push back the fog, so you can keep your 1H xbow user outside the walls and still have room to maneuver without the enemy ever getting in range to hit them or hit a building, especially once you initiate plan Unlimited Ballistas Everywhere Because Ballistas Are Stupidly Overpowered.

Daggers require some defensive stats just in case because they're not quite as insanely busted as 1H xbow, but the tradeoff is that they require no offensive stats besides +poison damage and +multistrike to completely melt waves into puddles of goo.

I don't find AOE damage particularly useful beyond the early game. I basically just delegate the trash clearing to Ballistas by like, the fifth night and have my actual guys focus on sniping the big boys.

When I do need AOE, the shortbow and rifle are both more than good enough to handle it. The shortbow's figure 8 AOE has a ridiculous damage modifier on it to the point where I often use it on big single targets, and the rifle's flashbang thing applies an unresistable movement debuff to a whopping 10 enemies which, after 2 hits, renders them completely incapable of moving. I actually like to throw Specialist(which is normally an awful perk because for some insane reason you still get the stat boosts from your backup weapon, what the gently caress, i've literally never seen a game do this) on my riflemen purely because with enough flashbangs going out you can actually completely lock down an entire direction because you'll have 3 or 4 packed rows of enemies unable to move and nothing else will be able to emerge from the fog because they're in the way.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

The 1H Xbow's "aoe" is so powerful that it becomes a primo single target skill that also clears entire waves incidentally, because a propagate multistrike skill is wildly, brokenly overpowered. Any situation where you can engineer it bouncing to the same big boy at least once is going to outperform almost any other ability in the game for the AP cost.

I don't actually use the flashbang much despite always having a rifle dude because I'd rather just kill them instead. With shortbow, druid staff, 1H xbow, or dagger very few things live to reach the walls and die to the ballistas.

Chocobo
Oct 15, 2012


Here comes a new challenger!


Oven Wrangler

Uhh... I've played this whole time not knowing unequipped secondaries gave stats. Welp...

Gay Rat Wedding
Sep 14, 2011



Taco Defender

Broken Cog posted:

I also do not understand some people's obsession with "winning".

lol

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011





Kanos posted:


I don't actually use the flashbang much despite always having a rifle dude because I'd rather just kill them instead.

Generally not, mostly they shoot things and they instantly die in one hit. The flashbang I mostly used on Apoc 4 or wherever where it's impossible to push the fog back and enemies are spawning far too close to the walls, in which case it's actually often better to construct an impenetrable wall of trash zombies that can't move than it is to kill them.

luchadornado
Oct 7, 2004

A boombox is not a toy!




What font is this, either exact or similar. It's fantastic.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here



What do you think about endless modes or score attacks in games? I had a huge argument with someone that was adamant that they should not exist because you were expected to lose eventually

BurningBeard
May 10, 2013


Broken Cog posted:

What do you think about endless modes or score attacks in games? I had a huge argument with someone that was adamant that they should not exist because you were expected to lose eventually


Has your friend heard of Tetris? Lol

Someone asked about Crown Trick a couple pages ago, and I was wondering too. Iíve been on the fence about it for some time and I seem to recall someone in this thread having played it? Any good?

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



I played and beat Crown Trick at launch and it was "ok" Way too easy and weapon balance seemed really out of wack (I used axes exclusively because being able to hit diagonals was absurd) I didn't regret my time playing it but it didn't leave much of an impression on me. I do know that they released a heft content patch at some point so maybe the experience is different now, though.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Ibram Gaunt posted:

I played and beat Crown Trick at launch and it was "ok" Way too easy and weapon balance seemed really out of wack (I used axes exclusively because being able to hit diagonals was absurd) I didn't regret my time playing it but it didn't leave much of an impression on me. I do know that they released a heft content patch at some point so maybe the experience is different now, though.

I played 6.5 hours for now, and while I had a decent time during it, it isn't really getting its hooks on me.

EightFlyingCars
Jun 30, 2008




Broken Cog posted:

What do you think about endless modes or score attacks in games? I had a huge argument with someone that was adamant that they should not exist because you were expected to lose eventually

tell your friend that it's not about not losing, it's about winning even harder

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

BurningBeard posted:

Has your friend heard of Tetris? Lol

Someone asked about Crown Trick a couple pages ago, and I was wondering too. Iíve been on the fence about it for some time and I seem to recall someone in this thread having played it? Any good?

It's on PC Game Pass if you're interested in trying it for less than the price of entry.

I downloaded it and gave it a couple hours and came away kind of bored. It's visually very nice looking but nothing about the gameplay really grabbed me or made me want to continue playing it.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


Still really into Arboria, 12 hours and barely scratched the second biome. A steal for 15 buck, heartily recommended.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

YAP YAP YAP


I think Crown Trick is worth the price even if it isn't terribly hard. It's fun and something good to play when I don't want something harder.

Dr. Video Games 0069
Jan 1, 2006

nice dolphin, nigga


Does everybody just win every game on their first try or what

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



It doesn't matter. I might not be able to win many games on my first try but that doesn't mean that I have to like it when a game is clearly "unfair" in a way that makes it impossible to.

You need to be able to trust the developer to provide a fair challenge.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010




Plays very similar to Cultist Simulator but with a city builder flavor instead. A lot of increasingly more annoying plate spinning.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


Meh, if the devs expect you to use metaprogress to be able to win, fine. As long as the game is fun on the way there, I don't mind.

Gay Rat Wedding
Sep 14, 2011



Taco Defender

Broken Cog posted:

What do you think about endless modes or score attacks in games? I had a huge argument with someone that was adamant that they should not exist because you were expected to lose eventually

they're highly boring

Krakhan
Oct 13, 2005

I see you.


Broken Cog posted:

What do you think about endless modes or score attacks in games? I had a huge argument with someone that was adamant that they should not exist because you were expected to lose eventually

Depends on the game. It can definitely just be more of a thing of showing that some build can be played infinitely until you either get bored or just stop. Something like the Guillotine essence in Luck be a Landlord gives an interesting alternate win condition too in endless mode with how you have so many exponential scaling options that outpace the rent payment increases that only go up by 500 coins each time after clearing the initial first 12 rent payments that usually counts.

tracecomplete
Feb 26, 2017



luchadornado posted:

What font is this, either exact or similar. It's fantastic.

It isn't exact but it looks like a descendant of various IBM DOS fonts, but with circular letters (like lowercase 'd') a bit more rounded and an inconsistent midline (the line at the top of a lower-case letter, excluding ascenders).

https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/font?ibm_ega_8x14-2x#-

https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/font?ibm_pgc-2x#-

Banemaster
Mar 31, 2010


Started playing Armoured Commander II as Finland with some WW1 vintage tank. On the first day I bullied infantry, flamethrower teams and trucks successfully. On the second day I moved to counter-attack enemy spearhead and got instantly spotted by unspotted enemy which one-shotted me.

:xcom:

jimmydalad
Sep 26, 2013

My face when others are unable to appreciate the :kazooieass:

AGDQ 2018 Awful Block Survivor



So I noticed that one of my favourite early access roguelikes, Chrono Ark, got a major update and decided to get back into it. The visuals have been updated, which is nice. It still suffers the issue of shoddy translation from Korean to English with some misspellings and grammar issues, but nothing so egregious that it's unplayable. It has a visual novel story mode thing that is sorta interesting, but I generally prefer the gameplay and it's only gotten the introduction and not much else. It is an early access game with all the caveats that brings, but I really enjoy the card battle system it uses and I don't think I know of many other roguelikes that get me that engaged into the gameplay.

It's definitely worth checking out but it is early access so it isn't perfect.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Chrono Ark is good.
My favorite part is how different every character in your party plays. Some real neat synergetic stategies can be formed from all kinds of combinations.

beer gas canister
Oct 30, 2007

W E L C O M E T O M Y C U S T O M T I T L E ! ! !


Plaster Town Cop

Finally getting into Monster Train after 80+ hours of Slay the Spire and I'm quite impressed. The combination of monster cards and spells reminds of MTG in the best way.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

jimmydalad posted:

So I noticed that one of my favourite early access roguelikes, Chrono Ark, got a major update and decided to get back into it. The visuals have been updated, which is nice. It still suffers the issue of shoddy translation from Korean to English with some misspellings and grammar issues, but nothing so egregious that it's unplayable. It has a visual novel story mode thing that is sorta interesting, but I generally prefer the gameplay and it's only gotten the introduction and not much else. It is an early access game with all the caveats that brings, but I really enjoy the card battle system it uses and I don't think I know of many other roguelikes that get me that engaged into the gameplay.

It's definitely worth checking out but it is early access so it isn't perfect.

I don't really get the Chrono Ark update, because it feels like they spent an enormous amount of time and effort retrofitting a one-off visual novel experience into their roguelite play-infinite-runs deckbuilder.

It's like if the Slay the Spire devs took 6 months off developing new stuff to put in a bunch of story cutscenes explaining the past of the Ironclad.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



Kanos posted:

I don't really get the Chrono Ark update, because it feels like they spent an enormous amount of time and effort retrofitting a one-off visual novel experience into their roguelite play-infinite-runs deckbuilder.

It's like if the Slay the Spire devs took 6 months off developing new stuff to put in a bunch of story cutscenes explaining the past of the Ironclad.

I don't disagree but they've been setting up some story stuff for ages now so I'm not too surprised they devoted more time to flesh it out. I would prefer if they added the last couple characters and final area/boss or whatever is supposed to be after the king guy first though.


Also that UI update they teased like a year ago...

Armauk
Jun 23, 2021



beer gas canister posted:

Finally getting into Monster Train after 80+ hours of Slay the Spire and I'm quite impressed. The combination of monster cards and spells reminds of MTG in the best way.

Monster Train is literal crack.

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Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Armauk posted:

Monster Train is literal crack.

:hmmyes:

They should release more DLC.

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