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Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007



It's not Roguelike Advance Wars, but Gem Wizards Tactics is kinda Roguelike-y Final Fantasy Tactics / ITB with more procgen

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1360270/Gem_Wizards_Tactics/

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Mithross
Apr 27, 2011

Intelligent and bright, they explored a world that was new and strange to them. They liked it, they thought - a whole world just for them! They were dimly aware that a God had created them, was watching them; they called out to him, thanking him in a chittering language, before running off.


dyzzy posted:

How would AWRL work, do you have hero units that have permadeath plus the normal factories on maps?

Give all units weight, you have a transport with a weigh limit between each island so you can carry over your core strategy. You start each stage with a flat amount of cash. Maybe your commander and his command staff are placed on the map as two or three core units that you have to keep around, but unlike basic units you construct they get stronger as used (either in combat, or maybe your command abilities? you command power cap?) so you have incentive to send them out and not just rely on purchasable chaff units that you can let die with no penalty.

Endless mode just generates bigger and bigger islands until you are fighting to conquer South America with your transport troops alone.

Floodkiller
May 30, 2011



Mithross posted:

Give all units weight, you have a transport with a weigh limit between each island so you can carry over your core strategy. You start each stage with a flat amount of cash. Maybe your commander and his command staff are placed on the map as two or three core units that you have to keep around, but unlike basic units you construct they get stronger as used (either in combat, or maybe your command abilities? you command power cap?) so you have incentive to send them out and not just rely on purchasable chaff units that you can let die with no penalty.

Endless mode just generates bigger and bigger islands until you are fighting to conquer South America with your transport troops alone.

Isn't this less Advance Wars and more Fire Emblem?

More on theme would be making city income limited but a larger sum, with the sum carrying over between maps. Then you can spend a premium amount to deploy with something on the first turn past enough for some infantry.

beer gas canister
Oct 30, 2007

W E L C O M E T O M Y C U S T O M T I T L E ! ! !


Plaster Town Cop

Thirsty Dog posted:

It's not Roguelike Advance Wars, but Gem Wizards Tactics is kinda Roguelike-y Final Fantasy Tactics / ITB with more procgen

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1360270/Gem_Wizards_Tactics/

This looks awesome

Mithross
Apr 27, 2011

Intelligent and bright, they explored a world that was new and strange to them. They liked it, they thought - a whole world just for them! They were dimly aware that a God had created them, was watching them; they called out to him, thanking him in a chittering language, before running off.


Floodkiller posted:

Isn't this less Advance Wars and more Fire Emblem?

More on theme would be making city income limited but a larger sum, with the sum carrying over between maps. Then you can spend a premium amount to deploy with something on the first turn past enough for some infantry.

I mean Fire Emblem really just needs a randomizer (and maybe something that shuffles unit classes around?) and it's there. Carrying over a certain amount of money would be closer to AW, true, but my thought was carrying over some built units is going to help prevent people spending way too long on earlier maps to build money for the next one. Maybe you can just only carry over so much money? Base it on your ranking for the current map. If you grind up a huge sum of money you can win this map, but you have to spend it all on "moving faster to stay ahead of the war" and you get to keep a pittance at the start of the next map. Go fast and you might not have made much money but it's all yours. Win fast with cheap units and you can actually get ahead a bit and carry good amounts.

I like that too. Someone get coding. I'll throw in $5 towards RPG maker, that should be a solid enough program to get everything done.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017




FE randomizers already exist (at least for the GBA ones). FE also has an Ironman (unofficial) gameplay challenge that's pretty popular.

Snake Maze
Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago
  • Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus


You guys are overthinking it. Advance Wars gameplay across a sequence of randomly generated missions of increasing difficulty. If you lose a mission, game over. There you go, roguelike AW.

You can add in more roguelite elements to taste. Choose from a set of three new perks for your CO after each mission, a branching map of missions to pick from, alternate COs and/or factions to unlock and/or powerup with metaprogression currency, etc

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


i dunno i like money carrying through, though i think it would be more interesting if it was less of a "bonus resource" thing and a dwindling resource thing
cos on map like days of ruin would be interesting and i like the perks thing since you can also put unit perks on a CO like something that makes a unit type go from d to c on a terrain or infantry captures cities slightly faster

Snake Maze
Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago
  • Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus


If money carries over then you need to add anti-stall mechanics too, and the optimal strategy is still going to be "stall as much as the game allows you to". (Or you totally rework how money works, but then you're getting away from AW gameplay). If you really want to have bonuses based on how you did in the previous mission just make it something separate based on your ranking for that fight.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


have a cap on income and un-gathered income is automatically added to your total at the end of the match

you could even make it so that end-of-mission income gets a percentage bonus compared to turn income, to incentivize fast completion even more

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Tuxedo Catfish posted:

i only played about 30 hours total of ITB to get wins for each of the teams (and maybe one 4-island win? can't remember if i ever got one of those or not) but in any case they were an extremely good 30 hours and i have a lot of respect for the game

i didn't realize that people actually go for 2-island wins. feels kind of like a 3 rune crawl run to me in that it's great for getting your toes wet but you really want to explore a bit more in future runs

4-island is definitely more satisfying imo, islands 3 and 4 generally push your puzzle skills a lot harder

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010


Battle For Wesnoth campaigns have a neat way of handling carryover units and cash, although it's p much entirely dependent on maps having turn limits.

victrix
Oct 30, 2007




Purely as an intellectual exercise, it's interesting to me that if a roguelike leans far enough into deterministic mechanics, it transforms into a puzzle game, and almost universally, I don't enjoy those as much

Apparently some amount of chaos is mandatory :v:

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



Thirsty Dog posted:

It's not Roguelike Advance Wars, but Gem Wizards Tactics is kinda Roguelike-y Final Fantasy Tactics / ITB with more procgen

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1360270/Gem_Wizards_Tactics/

Getting serious Vantage Master flashbacks looking at the gifs there

Gay Rat Wedding
Sep 14, 2011



Taco Defender

A lot of the enjoyment of advance wars campaigns came down to variety in clever handcrafted missions which were often designed to be more memorable, thematic or puzzle-like than difficult and strategic; such as the AW2 mission where youíre hopelessly underfunded but only have to survive for 2 weeks with the character who builds crappy units for cheap, or the DOR mission against a bunch of desperate cultists who are represented by swarms of low-health infantry and a single war tank that has no ammo

You could make some solid generally strategic and balanced maps in the map editor and just slug it out in generic matches, but thereís a reason the campaigns did not focus on these kinds of maps and Iím skeptical that the things most people fondly remember about advance wars could be translated to to a procedurally generated rogue model

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos


dis astranagant posted:

Getting serious Vantage Master flashbacks looking at the gifs there

Is that good or bad?

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



Prism posted:

Is that good or bad?

It's an ancient strategy rpg Falcom put out that's pretty solid. It was freeware but the site for it went down eons ago so it might take some digging to find it now. English release was called Vantage Master Online.

Found a working download link off the old site.http://file.4gamer.net/old2/demo2/VMOnline.zip
Your browser may bitch about the download link but it's the original file from 1998.

and here's the english manual on the wayback machine.https://web.archive.org/web/20071112041954/http://www.falcom.com/vantage/manual/index.html

dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Sep 23, 2021

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


nrook posted:

The roguelike elements of Into the Breach felt inconsequential to me. Two games with the same squad typically felt the same; it was rare for the game to surprise me. Maybe I didnít play it enough.

It feels more like a puzzle game tbh. I love them both but I don't think it's got anywhere near the replay ftl has

Imagined posted:

I realize I'm just restating what the people above me said, but Into the Breach also felt like more of a puzzle game than a roguelike imho.

Should have read on lmao

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



dis astranagant posted:

It's an ancient strategy rpg Falcom put out that's pretty solid. It was freeware but the site for it went down eons ago so it might take some digging to find it now. English release was called Vantage Master Online.

Found a working download link off the old site.http://file.4gamer.net/old2/demo2/VMOnline.zip
Your browser may bitch about the download link but it's the original file from 1998.

and here's the english manual on the wayback machine.https://web.archive.org/web/20071112041954/http://www.falcom.com/vantage/manual/index.html

you can still get vantage master straight from falcom

just choose the falcom mirror as it's the only one that's still working. the manual is also still live

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



Jazerus posted:

you can still get vantage master straight from falcom

just choose the falcom mirror as it's the only one that's still working. the manual is also still live

Cool. For some reason all I was pulling up was wayback machine links to a long dead version of falcom's site.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

Into the Breach is all prebuilt maps, if you consider that 'Roguelike' enough

90s Cringe Rock
Nov 29, 2006
:gay:


victrix posted:

Purely as an intellectual exercise, it's interesting to me that if a roguelike leans far enough into deterministic mechanics, it transforms into a puzzle game, and almost universally, I don't enjoy those as much

Apparently some amount of chaos is mandatory :v:
It's not a roguelike withoht rngesus in your heart, not just the level design.

Mithross
Apr 27, 2011

Intelligent and bright, they explored a world that was new and strange to them. They liked it, they thought - a whole world just for them! They were dimly aware that a God had created them, was watching them; they called out to him, thanking him in a chittering language, before running off.


it's not a roguelike if you don't occasionally have to seriously consider signing a contract, written in blood, bound in flesh, by things better not named, just to know how the next die roll is going to land.

(every roguelike player steals and mortgages souls... right? How else do you enjoy the genre?)

Floodkiller
May 30, 2011



Just saw this pop up on my recommendations list on Steam, it's another Chess-themed roguelike coming out today (there's a demo available as well):
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1142080/Pawnbarian/

At first glance it looks like about the same amount of depth as Hoplite, so I guess I'll wait and see on the price point and reviews.

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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.




Lipstick Apathy

Kanos posted:

The build that works really well for me is generally something like this:
  • Start with Lightning Bolt, obviously.
  • Your next pickup will be Chain Lightning, followed by Death Shock. These two spells are your powerhouse workhorses that will do the majority of your killing; CL is for killing huge mobs of stuff, Death Shock is for killing portals and small groups of tougher enemies. Death Shock also conveniently owns a lot of the common lightning resist mobs.
  • Get Thunder Lord. At this point CL should start becoming a ridiculous room sweeper.
  • Get Thunder Strike and the Blindcasting upgrade. This provides you with crowd control on targets you can't just annihilate, good single target damage, and the ability to snipe stuff from over walls, which is hugely important.
  • Get Lightning Form. It's an insanely good spell that provides both a ton of survivability(physical and lightning immunity) and also an insane amount of mobility - now Lightning Bolt is a teleport spell, and Thunder Strike lets you teleport over walls.
  • Get Lightning Frenzy and Arch Sorcerer to stack more damage.
  • Get Arc Lightning. This will become your default "move around with lightning form" spell and it does a huge amount of aoe damage in the process.
  • Get Conductance and upgrade it with the Resistance Debuff and Multicopy options. This is your final sanction against tough single target enemies and also breaks lightning immunes in half. Casting an upgraded Conductance on the final boss and hitting him with an upgraded Thunder Strike can do hundreds of damage on its own in addition to stunning him.

Once you have all of this stuff(which should be doable by the early teens or so, depending on circle luck), you're pretty much cruising and can focus on upgrading your spells or picking up extra damage adds like Holy Thunder. Priority for upgrades at this point should be Arc Lightning(echo flash is BUSTED, as is number of targets). Increasing the cascade ranges/numbers on Death Shock and Chain Lightning is both hilarious and can lead to very high spell efficiency because you can clear entire floors with just a couple of well placed casts, but they're not really needed to win.

For play strategy, aside from going for lightning/sorcery circles, once you get CL/Death Shock you really want to focus on wide open floors with relatively densely packed enemies that let you flex your massive area of effect power. Once you get all your synergies rolling you can wipe floors like that in just a couple of casts, whereas the rat maze floors with tons of blind corners and spread out enemies are your weakness and they will drain a ton of your resources to clear.

Once you get to the final boss just Conductance him and drop Thunder Strikes and Death Shocks on his head until he explodes.

This is fuckin' gospel, man. Just got my first clear.

I'll also add that Word of Beauty is absolutely busted as well. Turn every Mana Potion into two Healing Potions? Yes please. Absolutely turned the game around because I had 5 life left when I learned it.

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