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parthenocarpy
Dec 17, 2003



IronicDongz posted:

I actually just bought Vagante because I'm lazy.

It seems nice, but item spawn rates are way off right now. You basically get no scrolls besides teleportation, which isn't nearly as useful in this game as in DCSS-I'd like to see more remove curse and identify.

The teleport scroll thing is a bug with the newest version

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PotatoManJack
Nov 9, 2009


Holy crap, Cogmind looks amazing.

Seriously thinking about shelling out the pre-release price to give it a whirl. My only issue is that I find sometimes playing the pre-release ruins the experience when the finished product comes out.

Has anyone been playing it and can they give some ffedback on the experience?

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!

Fun Shoe

[SteamQud July 2, 2015]
*More tiles!
*Added faction encounters, and some other special encounters, encounterable almost anywhere in the world
*Added custom player name generators for each genotype and True Man arcology (try them out: press ENTER instead of entering a name)
*Added a few items
*Vastly improved (some) NPC name generation
*Vastly improved overland ruins generation time
*Improved initial world generation time
*Improved some laggyness on world map movement
*Added a binding for opening the factions screen
*Fixed Cragmensch tile path
*Fixed numlock, windows and menu keys not having a key code
*Fixed the first missile weapon in the sidebar overlaying creature name
*Fixed quests command opening factions screen
*Fixed tinkering command opening an improper screen

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


I've got a dumb question about UnReal World. Is there any way to zoom my sight distance out a bit? I can't help but feel my view distance is just so limited. 12 tiles orthogonically just feels so small.

Happylisk
May 19, 2004

Leisure Suit Barry '08

PotatoManJack posted:

Holy crap, Cogmind looks amazing.

Seriously thinking about shelling out the pre-release price to give it a whirl. My only issue is that I find sometimes playing the pre-release ruins the experience when the finished product comes out.

Has anyone been playing it and can they give some ffedback on the experience?

Buy it. I regret getting Darkest Dungeon early access, but this is completely different. I'm going to do a write up after I've logged enough hours, but suffice to say I really think this game could join the pantheon of top RLs.

This game has the playstyle of DoomRL, the depth of ADOM, and incredible eye candy.

pumpinglemma
Apr 28, 2009

DD: Fondly regard abomination.



Happylisk posted:

This game has the playstyle of DoomRL, the depth of ADOM, and incredible eye candy.
Ooh, now I really want this. 20 feels very steep when I know it's going to drop as soon as it gets out of Early Access, though.

PotatoManJack
Nov 9, 2009


Happylisk posted:

Buy it. I regret getting Darkest Dungeon early access, but this is completely different. I'm going to do a write up after I've logged enough hours, but suffice to say I really think this game could join the pantheon of top RLs.

This game has the playstyle of DoomRL, the depth of ADOM, and incredible eye candy.

Sold on that description. ADOM was the first 'real' roguelike I beat, and I loved the character depth in it. DoomRL is also a great game that I've thoroughly enjoyed, so combining those two things seems like a winner to me.

$30 does seem like a bit much, but if it helps the game get finished that's a good thing.

Happylisk
May 19, 2004

Leisure Suit Barry '08

pumpinglemma posted:

Ooh, now I really want this. 20 feels very steep when I know it's going to drop as soon as it gets out of Early Access, though.

It's a steep price, but one I'm willing to pay to overload my afterburners, zip up to an enemy kill unit, jam a data hack into its system core, and hack it to fight for me.

e:

quote:


Sold on that description. ADOM was the first 'real' roguelike I beat, and I loved the character depth in it. DoomRL is also a great game that I've thoroughly enjoyed, so combining those two things seems like a winner to me.


The plot in this thing is great. You uncover it by hacking data terminals.

Happylisk fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2015 around 02:14

Helical Nightmares
Apr 30, 2009


Unormal posted:

[SteamQud July 2, 2015]
*More tiles!
*Added faction encounters, and some other special encounters, encounterable almost anywhere in the world
*Added custom player name generators for each genotype and True Man arcology (try them out: press ENTER instead of entering a name)
*Added a few items
*Vastly improved (some) NPC name generation
*Vastly improved overland ruins generation time
*Improved initial world generation time
*Improved some laggyness on world map movement
*Added a binding for opening the factions screen
*Fixed Cragmensch tile path
*Fixed numlock, windows and menu keys not having a key code
*Fixed the first missile weapon in the sidebar overlaying creature name
*Fixed quests command opening factions screen
*Fixed tinkering command opening an improper screen



Re: Cogmind.

Who did the music in the Cogmind trailer?

Edit: found it http://www.alexyoder.net

Helical Nightmares fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2015 around 02:43

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...
...
...




cogmind will definitely be a buy at some point because i've always loved the concept of taking poo poo off of your enemies and plugging it into your own kit.

Dairy Power
Jul 23, 2013


I haven't particularly enjoyed Cogmind so far. It's a solid enough game and maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but I feel like the equips you pick up break too quickly on damage. Like, a single hit can just completely wipe out that really cool plasma cannon launcher you just found. There's no real feeling of character progression to me because of that. It kinda feels like you're a scavenger surviving on whatever you've recently found. I love that type of play in roguelites, but for whatever reason it just doesn't really do it for me in a traditional roguelike. I think I just like a more cohesive? experience or something.

Like I said, though-- the game is solid. You really have to think about where/when to engage an enemy, and it's a got a hard but fair difficulty curve. There's also some really neat weapons to find as you start getting out of the first few floors.

I'll definitely be checking back in on it from time to time, though. I may just have not been in the right mood for the type of gameplay it offers yet.

Dairy Power fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2015 around 03:36

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Happylisk posted:

Buy it. I regret getting Darkest Dungeon early access, but this is completely different. I'm going to do a write up after I've logged enough hours, but suffice to say I really think this game could join the pantheon of top RLs.

This game has the playstyle of DoomRL, the depth of ADOM, and incredible eye candy.

Do an LP for it in the Roguelike LP Megathread. Even a short one will do.

In other news, I'm working on my next UnReal World LP update for that thread and..



Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2015 around 03:43

RickVoid
Oct 21, 2010


Galaga Galaxian posted:

Do an LP for it in the Roguelike LP Megathread. Even a short one will do.

In other news, I'm working on my next UnReal World LP update for that thread and..





Yesssss. We now go to meet our spirit guide.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011

MENS REA? LOL MORE LIKE CHRIS REA AM I RITE

Lipstick Apathy

I always ignored the crap out of crafting in Dredmor. Even without it, it's just such a long game. With it...

I'm pumped for tower climb. I haven't touched it in about 3 years, but I'll dig through for my purchase and then toss it up on the TV to play once chapter 2 comes out.

packetmantis
Feb 26, 2013

oh ar


Unormal delay Steamqud until the 29th because it's my birthday

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Unormal posted:

[SteamQud July 2, 2015]
*More tiles!
*Added faction encounters, and some other special encounters, encounterable almost anywhere in the world
*Added custom player name generators for each genotype and True Man arcology (try them out: press ENTER instead of entering a name)
*Added a few items
*Vastly improved (some) NPC name generation
*Vastly improved overland ruins generation time
*Improved initial world generation time
*Improved some laggyness on world map movement
*Added a binding for opening the factions screen
*Fixed Cragmensch tile path
*Fixed numlock, windows and menu keys not having a key code
*Fixed the first missile weapon in the sidebar overlaying creature name
*Fixed quests command opening factions screen
*Fixed tinkering command opening an improper screen

Huzzah! Time to go die in Qud some more this weekend.

Is fixing '*'/improving the combat log on the roadmap? I know I keep harping on this but for me it is 100% the most irritating problem Qud has and a major contributing factor to several of my deaths.

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!

Fun Shoe

packetmantis posted:

Unormal delay Steamqud until the 29th because it's my birthday

Done.

ToxicFrog posted:

Is fixing '*'/improving the combat log on the roadmap? I know I keep harping on this but for me it is 100% the most irritating problem Qud has and a major contributing factor to several of my deaths.

I dunno, how do you want it to work? Is there a particularly good model game you'd prefer it work like?

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Unormal posted:

I dunno, how do you want it to work? Is there a particularly good model game you'd prefer it work like?

The underlying problem is that one round of combat typically generates way more messages than will actually fit in the message display, so you have to open up the full-screen message log after each turn to see what's actually happening. Some earlier suggestions I had for improving this:

  • "toggle full sidebar messages" command (KP_MULTIPLY) doesn't actually "toggle messages" in any sense; it cycles through a bunch of sidebar configurations, but even the ones that look like they should be dedicated almost entirely to log messages still cut the log off a third of the way up the screen, and the rest is just black space. Letting the log expand into that unused space would help significantly. The name of that command should probably be changed to "cycle sidebar mode" or something, too.
  • An option to make the messages more concise (I don't, for example, generally need to be told what I or my enemy is wielding on every attack, nor exactly what every attack roll was; "the ___ hits 3 times for 12 damage" is usually enough) would also help a lot. (Extra credit: show the concise version in the side pane, and the full version in the full-screen message log.)
  • Alternately, move the log out of the sidebar entirely! Qud isn't running in a terminal, but still has an 80x24 aspect ratio, which means nearly half the vertical space of the screen is unused. I don't know how much work this would be with the Qud codebase, but moving the log out of the "game window" entirely and just putting it at the top or bottom of the screen would be fantastic, if possible.

It's hard to point to games I'd like to see it work like; DoomRL has the same problem (but at least the log is less likely to contain critical information), Dredmor and ToME4 take an approach that won't work with Qud's entirely tile-based engine, and Nethack handles it with a --more-- prompt, which is great when most turns generate <1 line of log, but would be completely crippling in Qud.

Also, while not directly related to the message log, I did an effortpost ages ago on UI bugs and pain points that I think got lost:
  • When wielding a ranged weapon and having both hands full, reloading produces the messages "You take the <ammo>. You drop the <ammo xN>. You reload your <weapon> with <ammo>" rather than just "you reload your weapon". At a guess this is some mechanic where having your hands full makes it slower to reload weapons, but the messages are confusing -- especially since the ammo is not actually dropped -- and fill the entire visible message log.
  • The skill cooldown icons only display in one of the sidebar modes; there's no reason at all not to display them in every sidebar mode.
  • At least one of the sidebar modes should tell you what status effects you're subject to, e.g. bleeding.
  • Carry load and carrying capacity should be displayed when using the detailed stats sidebar.
  • Derived stats (AV, DV, carry capacity, etc) should be visible from the character sheet, which has a lot of dead space. Even better: display how they would change if you spent a stat point, too. As it is you have to switch back and forth between the main screen (with the sidebar in detailed stats mode) and the character sheet.
  • On the equip screen, it would be nice to be able to directly replace items (i.e. select an item, see what you have in your inventory that can occupy that slot, and swap one item with the one you have equipped), rather than needing to remove an item, then pick a new one from the inventory as a separate step.
  • Modifiers on a weapon, like "counterweighted" or "sturdy", should stand out somehow; as it is it seems colour is used mostly for cosmetic purposes, so being made of crocodile skin gets something a flashy mottled green name but things with actual gameplay effects like being indestructable blend into the rest of the item name.
  • Picking things up and looting/storing chests could use a more streamlined UI. Picking things up requires you to select each item and then "get" (although at least you can just double-press enter/space for that). Putting things in a chest is the worst, requiring you to press + for "add item to chest" and then select one item, then repeat for each item you want to store. Compare to nethack (and when nethack has a better UI that is possibly a sign that something is wrong) where you can select a whole swathe of items at once to drop, pick up, store, or loot.
  • Custom keymappings for abilities don't persist across characters, even if you opt to roll the same character as last time.
  • On the Load Game screen, Space and Enter should be synonyms as they are throughout the rest of the game.
  • The Freehold Games splash screen should either be skippable with keystrokes, or eat all keyboard input while fading in and out. More than once I've tried to skip it by mashing keys and found myself halfway through character creation when it finishes fading out.

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!

Fun Shoe

ToxicFrog posted:

I think things using brain.

[SteamQud July 3, 2015]
*Added inventory weight to several sidebar modes
*Fixed Mode 2 of the sideber improperly using less than the full height for messages
*Fixed reloading rifles accidently happening twice
*Removed some of the message spam when reloading
*Added a bindable key to toggle message terseness (default: ctrl+numpad *)
*Added ability cooldowns to all sidebar states
*Changed the member placement of NPC parties to feel more natural
*Changed the display name of the sidebar mode command
*Lowered autoeat priority of Yuckwheat

doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.


Eldritch is finally at an impulse buy price for me, $1.94 at HumbleBundle.com.

Sage Grimm
Feb 18, 2013



It's a pretty good pick, once you get over playing "quiet, quiet" and just full out bunny-hop it up with little regard to stealth.

Robot Randy
Dec 31, 2011

by Lowtax


I don't know if it's faction fuckery or what but every time I've come across a starapple/pig farm in CoQ the guard dogs murder the farmer's family and livestock.

I mean its really funny to see in action but I'm pretty sure it's not intended behavior

doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.


Eldritch report: it's unique, and generates interesting mazes. Feels like with a few adjustments, it could be a really tense, even scary, game. It seems to want to play like Thief, but I feel like I can just play it like Mirror's Edge, but without the cool parkour moves.

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!

Fun Shoe

[SteamQud July 5, 2015]
*Wardens now take their job more seriously
*The default action for meds is now get instead of apply when they are in a container other than the player's inventory
*Party members will now correctly defend each other
*Party leaders are now annoyed when you attack their followers
*Party members will no longer cause the party leader to aggro himself when they accidentally shoot each other
*Turrets now properly award XP to their owner
*Turrets are now aligned with the player's level for purposes of xp calculations
*Fixed an issue with faction encounter type ratios

eonwe
Aug 11, 2008


Lipstick Apathy

Unormal posted:

[SteamQud July 5, 2015]
*Wardens now take their job more seriously
*The default action for meds is now get instead of apply when they are in a container other than the player's inventory
*Party members will now correctly defend each other
*Party leaders are now annoyed when you attack their followers
*Party members will no longer cause the party leader to aggro himself when they accidentally shoot each other
*Turrets now properly award XP to their owner
*Turrets are now aligned with the player's level for purposes of xp calculations
*Fixed an issue with faction encounter type ratios

feedback: im bad at qud

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Holy poo poo chitinous pumas are nasty

Just lost a level 1 character to them, got lost immediately after stepping out of Joppa and ran into a pack of them. Managed to evade most of them but one stayed on me. Ok, I can probably take one, right?

pre:
> You hit for 1 damage.
> The chitinous puma hits (x1) for 6 damage.
> The chitinous puma hits (x3) for 8 damage.
> The chitinous puma hits (x2) for 3 damage.
> You die.
That's right, it got three consecutive turns on me and hit a total of 6 times for 17 damage. If they're that fast I'm amazed I got away from the others as easily as I did, they should have overtaken me and ripped me to shreds instantly.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013


Unormal posted:

*The default action for meds is now get instead of apply when they are in a container other than the player's inventory

THANK YOU SO MUCH

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006


ToxicFrog posted:

Holy poo poo chitinous pumas are nasty

Just lost a level 1 character to them, got lost immediately after stepping out of Joppa and ran into a pack of them. Managed to evade most of them but one stayed on me. Ok, I can probably take one, right?

pre:
> You hit for 1 damage.
> The chitinous puma hits (x1) for 6 damage.
> The chitinous puma hits (x3) for 8 damage.
> The chitinous puma hits (x2) for 3 damage.
> You die.
That's right, it got three consecutive turns on me and hit a total of 6 times for 17 damage. If they're that fast I'm amazed I got away from the others as easily as I did, they should have overtaken me and ripped me to shreds instantly.

Pretty sure it has claw/claw/bite attacks.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007


dis astranagant posted:

Pretty sure it has claw/claw/bite attacks.

Yes, and it appears to have hit one time the first round, three times the second and twice the third, out of three attacks per round.

Am I reading it wrong?

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006


The (x) is armor penetrations. There's nothing in their blueprint that would indicate being faster than anything else, other than the charge attack they open up with.

dis astranagant fucked around with this message at Jul 6, 2015 around 06:08

Maelephant
Aug 12, 2006

"Yer know, a herd of maelephants might be jus' wot we needs."

Prism posted:

Yes, and it appears to have hit one time the first round, three times the second and twice the third, out of three attacks per round.

Am I reading it wrong?

Yeah, this is a misreading of the (admittedly arcane) combat system. The 1x, 3x, 2x values from that combat log refer to how many times the puma penetrated your AV and rolled its damage dice. This is the reason that early AV equipment can mean life or death for a low-level character.

CoQ Reference Guide posted:

Combat Sequence:
First, a to-hit roll is made against the target's DV. This roll is always modified by the attacker's agility. Then, penetration rolls are made: each weapon has 3d6 penetration dice. To each of those penetration rolls, the creature's strength modifier is added (capped based on the weapon tier). If any of those three rolls exceed the target AV, damage is dealt per the weapon damage. If all three rolls exceed the target AV, those three penetration dice are rolled again at a -2 penalty and the process is repeated. Axes receive a flat +1 bonus to each of their penetration rolls because they are "penetrating"; cudgels receive a flat +2 bonus because they are "rattling" and are less dependent on the defender's armor.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007


Maelephant posted:

Yeah, this is a misreading of the (admittedly arcane) combat system. The 1x, 3x, 2x values from that combat log refer to how many times the puma penetrated your AV and rolled its damage dice. This is the reason that early AV equipment can mean life or death for a low-level character.

You're right, that's a little arcane, but it makes sense now that it's explained; thanks.

I don't have Qud yet, I'm waiting for Steam release, so I'm not really up on this stuff.

Lprsti99
Apr 7, 2011

Everything's coming up explodey!



Pillbug

IIRC, the x1/x2/xwhatever is armor penetration or something, not number of attacks. It's a really weird way to display it though. So it didn't triple turn you, it just attacked with its bite and two claws in one turn and wrecked you.

Fake edit: Yeah, this is the manual entry on it:

quote:

Determine how severely your attack penetrates your target's armor.
Each weapon has a penetration value (->4, for example). This value
represents the armor value (AV) that your weapon will usually penetrate
with ease. If your weapon's penetration value far exceeds your target's AV,
your weapon will likely penetrate several times. Each time your weapon
penetrates your target's armor, your target is dealt damage equal to your
weapon's damage value (1d4, for example). A filled circle icon over your
target indicates that your attack hit but failed to penetrate your target's
armor. A heart icon indicates that your attack hit and penetrated your
target's armor.

So for that combat log, for example, I suspect it went something like:
You hit for 1 damage.
Puma bite (probably something along the lines of 1d6) hit you and penetrated
once, rolling 6 damage.
Puma claw 1 (1d3) hit you and penetrated three times, rolling thrice for 2+3+3=8.
Puma claw 2 (1d3) hit you, penetrated twice, 1+2=3.
You die.

E: beaten like a level 1 esper against a slumberling, but mine was more complete

Lprsti99 fucked around with this message at Jul 6, 2015 around 06:27

Prism
Dec 22, 2007


So, new Roguelike question: Cogmind.

Cogmind looks interesting but it's still in alpha. For anyone who's played it here: How feature-complete is it at the moment, and is it actually as good as it looks? I realize that second part's a bit subjective of course but I'd like to get other people's ideas on it. $30 is a lot to drop on an unfinished game; I don't mind beta testing in general but I'd like to know where it's going beyond the official articles on the web site (which are interesting, and I've read most of them).

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Ok, thanks for the Chitinous Puma explanations, everyone, that makes a lot more sense.

Still kind of brutal as an enemy that can spawn right next to the starting zone, though. I've found that the only characters I can reliably get off the ground with are the ones that start with artifacts, so that I can give them to the tinker and get a level-up before leaving Joppa.

I am bad at Qud.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006


ToxicFrog posted:

Ok, thanks for the Chitinous Puma explanations, everyone, that makes a lot more sense.

Still kind of brutal as an enemy that can spawn right next to the starting zone, though. I've found that the only characters I can reliably get off the ground with are the ones that start with artifacts, so that I can give them to the tinker and get a level-up before leaving Joppa.

I am bad at Qud.

If you think those are brutal, go mess with an Equimax. They're usually more of a speed bump once you get a decent gun.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

My fingers are set to vibrate


Pumas aren't all that common in my experience; I don't think I've ever fought one before being level 5 or so. I guess if you immediately strike out into the wilderness (instead of going to Red Rock or whatever the place with the wire spools is called) you're more likely to get into trouble though.

"Left starting town, got ambushed, died" is a pretty classic roguelike death though, you have to admit.

Maelephant
Aug 12, 2006

"Yer know, a herd of maelephants might be jus' wot we needs."

Usually you'll only encounter pumas in the hills or watervine marshes if ruins happen to spawn nearby. Otherwise, they're fairly rare.

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

Prism posted:

So, new Roguelike question: Cogmind.

Cogmind looks interesting but it's still in alpha. For anyone who's played it here: How feature-complete is it at the moment, and is it actually as good as it looks? I realize that second part's a bit subjective of course but I'd like to get other people's ideas on it. $30 is a lot to drop on an unfinished game; I don't mind beta testing in general but I'd like to know where it's going beyond the official articles on the web site (which are interesting, and I've read most of them).

I bought it, it seems very feature-complete with the main thing missing right now being certain side-branches to the ascent that aren't in yet. The UI is probably the most polished I've seen in a non-graphical roguelike. It's a lot of fun. It's REALLY hard, maybe a little unfairly so at time right now, but it's still in balancing and the side branches should help a little with the difficulty scaling, from what I understand.

With that said, $30 is a lot for a roguelike and if you do buy into it, it's certainly with the thought that you're funding development. It's clearly a passion project for this guy and he put a lot of work into it and it shows.

There's a pretty decent Youtube LP of it here if you want to see a bit about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMhPC_hVxk4

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Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!

Fun Shoe

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