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Cinara posted:Does that make this discussion a roguelike? life is the ultimate roguelike, my friend namaste
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Oct 10, 2020 00:53
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well, firstly, it's actually pronounced ro-GWELL-i-kee,
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Oct 10, 2020 01:25
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rogue | traditional roguelike | roguelike | ??mystery zone, maybe "traditional roguelite" | roguelite | traditional roguelitelike | roguelitelike | rouge
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Oct 10, 2020 01:34
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Ciaphas posted:life is the ultimate roguelike, my friend strong disagree, the balance is atrocious and the progression system is too heavily dependent on RNG
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Oct 10, 2020 02:07
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life is a roguelite
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Oct 10, 2020 03:40
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The definition of roguelike is much like the universe in that it is constantly expanding. And also because the universe is random and has permadeath so is also a roguelike.
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Oct 10, 2020 07:55
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it would be funny to actually name a game Rougelight
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Oct 10, 2020 08:33
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Well you see due to the Berlin interpretation:  I adore this thread, this is a tired topic.
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Oct 10, 2020 12:34
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Cinara posted:Does that make this discussion a roguelike? procedurely generated, restarts every time it dies, filled with monsters, no meta-progression. It's a rogue, not a roguelike.
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Oct 10, 2020 13:13
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Jazerus posted:life is a roguelite where's the part where i get another try with more power
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Oct 10, 2020 13:56
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Ciaphas posted:where's the part where i get another try with more power only a few religions believe in metaprogression
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Oct 10, 2020 14:00
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Ciaphas posted:where's the part where i get another try with more power You're a human now so this is it. You started as a bacteria.
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Oct 10, 2020 14:02
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megane posted:well, firstly, it's actually pronounced ro-GWELL-i-kee, This is the best post in the thread and will have lifelong influence
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Oct 10, 2020 14:16
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rldmoto posted:This is the best post in the thread and will have lifelong influence Indeed, I nominate it for the next thread title.
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Oct 10, 2020 14:49
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Jeza posted:only a few religions believe in metaprogression can i turn off hardcore? 
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Oct 10, 2020 15:26
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I personally want more rougelikes. Downwell is a perfect example. https://downwellgame.com/
poemdexter fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Oct 10, 2020 |
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Oct 10, 2020 20:40
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I've been duoing Terraria again with my gf and started to get the itch to try HC again, this time in the new master mode. This will go well 
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Oct 10, 2020 21:17
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So here's a... civ builder roguelite? Dwarf Fortress roguelite? It's called As Far As The Eye. It's very light on metaprogression, mostly just unlocking new traits for the trait pool, but if you want some nice 1-2 hour runs of a civ-style builder, it's pretty solid. The goal is to shepherd your tribe of mask-wearing balloon enthusiasts as far as "The Eye", the one point of shelter in a world that's slowly flooding, and you're limited in the time you have to spend in each place, because flooding. The "roguelike" feel is that not only do you have randomized maps, but they're arranged in a progression tree. So you can start out with a choice between, like, a path to a big lake area full of protective auras that needs you to build up wood and stone, or a path to a small canyon that needs you to master growing, gathering, and stone mining. Your units get experience as they do tasks, like Dwarf Fortress, and there's a little skill tree as they get to the advanced levels. Disasters will periodically happen as you go, and they'll get faster as you're wasteful, overbuilding resources to put a building in an optimal place or harvesting too much from a map and having to leave some behind. Every map also ends with a major disaster, penalizing you for your last few turns in place, so it can be good to leave early. You can build two types of buildings - "permanent" ones you leave behind, that only need wood and maybe something else, and "mobile" buildings that can be packed up and relocated both on the map and between maps, but are more expensive. You only have limited space on the caravan and it's got to hold both the mobile buildings and all of the resources you want to take with you, but you can increase that storage space both by having your units pick up stray pack animals on the maps and by researching expansions with knowledge, a resource that you get by fully exploring maps or having experienced people do a job. There are four different modes available, for short and long journeys. Come from the West and that's your basic start, blank slates with a positive trait each and plenty of food. Come from the South and you begin with one extra guy (and a free camp extension to stick him in) and all your guys start with a positive and negative trait, in addition to having mastered the basics of a random profession. Good for exploring the higher regions of the skill tree. Come from the East and turn up the disasters, start with one less guy and they'll always have the trait that makes them count for two, so your basic camp only holds two people. In addition, everyone you start with or recruit has a trait that slows down your experience gain but turns it into knowledge, so it's much more a game about climbing the tech tree. Come from the North and disasters are much less frequent, but mostly that's just replacing random disasters with a constant bitter cold, so addition to keeping fed you also need to worry about keeping everyone warm. Some tips for starting out: - Grab pack animals when you can, they're useful not only for space but for dedicated extensions to the camp - extra housing for more units, trading in desperate circumstances, improving all efficiency and doubling up on buildings, and improving your research capabilities. Extensions can only be built directly adjacent to the big central caravan beast, so be careful where you park him 'cause he ain't moving until it's time to go. - Explore. Clearing every blank space on a map is a big kick in the knowledge and finding empty space to put down all your craft buildings can sometimes be challenging. - You're going to need some kind of cooking building to make the various food items into edible rations, but try not to go too far over on them - especially if you build a mobile cook station and can drop it down in the next map, carting along the raw ingredients is actually more space-efficient than what they cook into. - Don't sleep on building upgrades, especially for the mobile buildings. You can learn to preload the entire recipe tree at a cook station or herd those fuzzy llamas into a pasture to shear them all in place. - Always go say hi to friendly caravans that show up, they're how you get more units, though you can also make a trade in your advantage or beg for a smaller favor for cheap or free. - Whatever you start with, you're going to want to dedicate one unit to getting builder experience so they can build all your mobile buildings and get the advanced bonuses, and give at least one unit experience in gathering herbs and brewing potions so they can get good at dealing with goody huts and/or protective auras later on. Glazius fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Oct 10, 2020 |
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Oct 10, 2020 22:07
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This looks really interesting, I might give this a try. Was reading over some of the user reviews and this one popped out at me. quote:The last thing would be that there is no long term progression, even if it is a rogue like. The only meaningful long term progression is unlocking more randomly rolled traits. 
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Oct 10, 2020 22:26
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Yea, Jesus wept. Derail: Language is an interesting thing; words change their meaning over time, and sometimes the entomology is kinda fuzzy. See: "Gay". I have no stake in the word and just think it's interesting, but I do have a stake in other phrases such as Literally and Roguelike, and I will die on those hills. Ontopic: Cogmind had a huge update a month ago and I've not gotten around to playing it yet. Anyone care to spoil what I need to trigger the new content, or is it just 'trigger the Warlord event and finish the game in any way'?
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Oct 11, 2020 00:29
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SKULL.GIF posted:This looks really interesting, I might give this a try. Yeah, that's another reason I brought it up - it's a game with very little metaprogression mechanics, other than having to unlock the tribes W -> S -> E -> N, and needing to do a tribe's short journey to unlock its long journey. You get better through learning the maps and mechanics.
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Oct 11, 2020 00:50
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Serephina posted:Yea, Jesus wept. The etymology's as weird as the insects (e) oh hey i got to be a pedant in the roguelike thread 
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Oct 11, 2020 01:19
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Glazius posted:So here's a... civ builder roguelite? Dwarf Fortress roguelite?
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Oct 11, 2020 03:11
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Serephina posted:Language is an interesting thing; words change their meaning over time, and sometimes the entomology is kinda fuzzy. See: "Gay". I have no stake in the word and just think it's interesting, but I do have a stake in other phrases such as Literally and Roguelike, and I will die on those hills.
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Oct 11, 2020 05:14
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Imo the reason people are pedants about the term roguelike is bc games like dungeon crawl stone soup are a niche of a niche of a niche and imo it's defensible to be defensive of something so small. Although it's not like the bandying about of roguelike has withered the genre at all. Caves of Qud and (arguably) dwarf fortress are close to mainstream, and there's so many new roguelikes it's hard to keep track of them, Even moreso than the days of infinite *bands. Hades is bringing a lot of attention in to a kind of repetition-and-discovery playstyle that is very close to the roots of the genre.
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Oct 11, 2020 05:26
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This isn’t really an important point, but a hill I’ll always die on is that Crypt of the Necrodancer is almost as “roguelike” as NetHack or Crawl, and it makes sense to think of it as part of the same genre. Among the modern generation of games influenced by Rogue and its descendants, it stands alone (maybe with Spelunky) as having the cleverest design.
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Oct 11, 2020 05:43
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Aside from the meta-progression Necrodancer ticks pretty much all of the boxes. It's a rhythm game which isn't exactly normal for a roguelike, but you can even turn that off if you want.Impermanent posted:Imo the reason people are pedants about the term roguelike is bc games like dungeon crawl stone soup are a niche of a niche of a niche and imo it's defensible to be defensive of something so small. Yeah, it's just kind of a bummer since its use as a marketing term for indie platformers/ccgs with some amount of randomization has completely eclipsed the actual roguelike scene. 90% of the time I hear someone use the term it's "I hate roguelikes" referring to stuff like Rogue Legacy or Slay the Spire from someone who has never even heard of a "true roguelike". To be fair they probably wouldn't be super into ADoM either... The Moon Monster fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Oct 11, 2020 |
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Oct 11, 2020 14:07
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Necrodancer's only all-stages mode metaprogression is character unlocks.
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Oct 11, 2020 14:33
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And pretty much every character beyond Cadence makes the game significantly more challenging in one way or another.
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Oct 11, 2020 14:47
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I was going to ask if that form of metaprogression even counted, since it appears to be just unlocks, not making your character significantly better from the word go. Never realized how roguelike-definition-meeting Necrodancer is before now, though. Neat observation
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Oct 11, 2020 15:17
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Cleared the last short journey for As Far As The Eye. Wow, the northern tribe is a challenge, especially if you have paths that need wool. I had a maximum expert with a 50% bonus efficiency trait and I still only barely made it to the end.
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Oct 11, 2020 15:54
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Metaproguelikes
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Oct 11, 2020 15:58
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Decided to finally try Cogmind "seriously". Last time I played was a long time ago with some ancient beta. Since it's now basically complete, I guess there's no reason not to. I managed to get to -4/Armory which I guess is decent. Had no idea what areas I was going to, wanted to just get the feeling how the game plays. Shooting almost everything up to around -6 was pretty easy. Then I decided to grab some more weapons after a big fight instead of going through a visible exit and things started to go bad with more reinforcements. Turns out you really should have some matter storage (or collecting ability) when you use kinetic weapons Also having four rail guns was probably too many. Not having an AOE gun was bad too.https://cogmind-api.gridsagegames.com/scoresheets/bWouB6Zk8n4L7Zs6b.txt
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Oct 11, 2020 16:32
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BPM is both rougelike and roguelite
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Oct 11, 2020 17:46
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did they end up adjusting the random disasters in as far as the eye? when it launched all i was seeing was "good game other than the fact it will completely gently caress you over randomly" which didnt sound like much fun.
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Oct 11, 2020 17:50
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I tried As Far As The Eye for a hour or so this morning, finished the campaign/tutorial and messed around a bit in a regular game before heading to work. It's closer to the Anno games or Dwarf Fortress than it is to a 4X. Your workers are constantly juggling resources and expansion while dealing with disasters. I think they meant for the game to be very calming: there's no enemies or monsters or anything, you're just making your way through the wild with your little village and trying to hit resource benchmarks. But at the same time the game is get tense with the constant time pressure and the vagaries that force you to be always on your guard and ready to react? It's an internal contradiction that I'm not sure if the game is robust enough to really uphold. One thing that was very apparent to me, though, in the first 60-90 minutes: even with the beautiful graphics, comprehensibility is a mess. Which workers are doing what? Where are they going? Should I interrupt them now or wait until they're done with a gathering task? The UI is kinda all over the place. I'm sure it'll improve with experience.
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Oct 11, 2020 18:14
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SKULL.GIF posted:I tried As Far As The Eye for a hour or so this morning, finished the campaign/tutorial and messed around a bit in a regular game before heading to work. The game is definitely challenging and it's not uncommon to see your survival engine stall out or not come online in time. Usually I just quit out before that happens, I don't like to hear them starving to death. One thing to keep in mind is that the resource cycle is a complete loop - units take on a class at a resource building (or optionally at the caravan for pepkins, wood, pack beasts, and anything else you've researched) walk to the hex with the resource, gather for three turns (including the turn where they arrive), and return to the building, slowed 1 MP by the resource they're carrying. If this cycle is interrupted at any point, it's entirely broken and has to start over from the beginning, so unless it's a matter of life and death the time to interrupt a unit is when they're listed as "going to work" or have 2 turns left.
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Oct 11, 2020 22:18
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victrix posted:BPM is both rougelike and roguelite 
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Oct 11, 2020 22:24
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perc2 posted:Oh look it's yet another discussion about what is and isn't a roguelike. This definitely hasn't been happening since the dawn of time and boring the gently caress out of everyone Cinara posted:Does that make this discussion a roguelike? well, the topic sure doesn't seem to have permadeath
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Oct 11, 2020 22:45
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Lutha Mahtin posted:well, the topic sure doesn't seem to have permadeath it can be modded in
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Oct 12, 2020 06:15
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