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victrix
Oct 30, 2007




tote up a bags posted:

Don't talk down Dredmor. Before it every roguelike was action, like Spleunky. Dredmor was the first game that ever had turns and real tactical thinking.

:hmmyeswaitno:

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Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...





for whatever jokes people want to make, dredmor did a lot to bring the genre forward in terms of bringing in a wider audience

perc2
May 16, 2020



I know, it's awful, isn't it

victrix
Oct 30, 2007




As a reward for their evangelism they went out of business

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


They kinda bit off too much with their sophomore title.

Clark Nova
Jul 17, 2004



Being told that "Gaslamp Games" originated the genre is a joke that writes itself

resistentialism
Aug 13, 2007



Procedural colony sim game development has many roguelike elements.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



victrix posted:

As a reward for their evangelism they went out of business

What happened with them? DoD name is still known, if they would have made a Dungeons of Dredmor 2, a safe sequel with slightly improved elements and 'more stuff', it would have been a financial success.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

As I recall they were trying to make some kind of wild-west MMO tactics game? I think that was them anyway. Biiiig reach, grasp not quite strong enough.

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010


Moralists don't really have beliefs. Sometimes they stumble on one, like a child's toy left on the carpet. The toy must be put away immediately. And the child reprimanded.





TooMuchAbstraction posted:

As I recall they were trying to make some kind of wild-west MMO tactics game? I think that was them anyway. Biiiig reach, grasp not quite strong enough.

nah, what killed them was a steampunk rimworldlike game that collapsed under its own weight and they ran out of money before fixing it

it's, like, sorta almost playable, you can see what could have been

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


Turin Turambar posted:

What happened with them? DoD name is still known, if they would have made a Dungeons of Dredmor 2, a safe sequel with slightly improved elements and 'more stuff', it would have been a financial success.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/...ckwork_Empires/
They basically overextended their resources on Clockwork Empires, one of those procedural settlement games like Dwarf Fortress, and after it finally launched 1.0 (in a notably buggy state), they went radio silent for a long time while people started noticing that the main Gaslamp Games people were changing their online profiles (one of them is currently a "recovering indie dev... working on Google Stadia") and finally the game was confirmed dead and pulled from sale in 2019.

DarkestLite
Feb 27, 2007

"Can we fix it?"
"No, it's fucked."


Dredmor is the game that introduced me to roguelikes. It was just so fun and easily accessible. The humor was good enough for the time and I never got bored with it.

Iím truly bummed weíll likely never get a sequel.

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


is DCSS mainline dev slowing down? No trunk summaries in 2 months and the tavern seems pretty dead.

I don't play the game anymore, just curious.

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011





bees x1000 posted:

is DCSS mainline dev slowing down? No trunk summaries in 2 months and the tavern seems pretty dead.

I don't play the game anymore, just curious.

we can only hope

perc2
May 16, 2020



There's nothing much else to really do to the game IMO, since they seem so keen on not adding any major content. If that game upped its branch diversity more (as in, same number of branches per run, but just a wider pool to generate from) I'd be up for it but since they seem so myopically obsessed with balance and streamlining I don't think that's going to happen.

I haven't checked out the state of Crawl forks but now would be a good time for someone to straight up doing an extended variant who isn't afraid to create a bit of jank at the expense of greater content... I had an idea for a "haunted forest" branch I threw at the devs years ago that I really liked, full of autumnal trees, starry pools and haunted wells, but making a new branch requires a lot of tilesetting I guess, and they are probably hell to code for since none of the variants I have seen are doing anything with branches either.

perc2 fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Oct 18, 2020

Patware
Jan 3, 2005



Hogama posted:

(one of them is currently a "recovering indie dev... working on Google Stadia")

going from strength to strength

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Patware posted:

going from strength to strength

I'm going to guess Google pay much better than being an indie dev.

srulz
Jun 23, 2013


So if we're done making fun of Dredmor, how's Crown Trick really? Seems fun from the few streams of the game I've watched, though the combat against bosses seems very involved. Almost like Tome 4, as that's the closest comparison point I think.

Not sure if the combat will become repetitive/tedious later on. Graphic is really good though.

Snake Maze
Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago
  • Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus


srulz posted:

So if we're done making fun of Dredmor, how's Crown Trick really? Seems fun from the few streams of the game I've watched, though the combat against bosses seems very involved. Almost like Tome 4, as that's the closest comparison point I think.

Not sure if the combat will become repetitive/tedious later on. Graphic is really good though.

I'm enjoying it so far. Figuring out a good combo of skills and weapons is fun and the items you can find tend to have strong and interesting effects. I can't speak for the long term content, but if nothing else I think there's enough variety in skills to keep things fresh for a while.

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004



GreyjoyBastard posted:

nah, what killed them was a steampunk rimworldlike game that collapsed under its own weight and they ran out of money before fixing it

it's, like, sorta almost playable, you can see what could have been

That was well before rimworld was even a solidified thing, right? I think those were like early dwarf fortress days, and they wanted to do all that but with steampunk and also with really nice graphics. Certainly overambitious; I don't think there's really a game out there now that pulled off what they claimed they were going for with Clockwork Empires

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010








They wanted to be a df like but also with Lovecraft madness your villagers could succumb to and secret societies your guys could join and a procedurally generated relationship to the empire back home, so not only larger in scope than rim world, but also doing what literally dwarf fortress is now barely starting to be able to do.

It was an amazing level of scope creep but to their credit I spent an evening sitting at a table drinking a caramel macchiato on the free Starbucks wifi in 2012, the second worst year of my life, on a decaying Amazon fire tablet reading those dev diaries and getting pumped so it wasn't all entirely without merit.

Impermanent fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Oct 19, 2020

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



goferchan posted:

That was well before rimworld was even a solidified thing, right? I think those were like early dwarf fortress days, and they wanted to do all that but with steampunk and also with really nice graphics. Certainly overambitious; I don't think there's really a game out there now that pulled off what they claimed they were going for with Clockwork Empires

yeah it was definitely the first go at a df-like. i think rimworld, etc. are somewhat limited in their ambition because...well, everyone watched clockwork empires happen to GPG. graphical dwarf fortress is going to be the closest thing to clockwork empires once it comes out funnily enough

Magitek
Feb 20, 2008


srulz posted:

So if we're done making fun of Dredmor, how's Crown Trick really? Seems fun from the few streams of the game I've watched, though the combat against bosses seems very involved. Almost like Tome 4, as that's the closest comparison point I think.

Not sure if the combat will become repetitive/tedious later on. Graphic is really good though.

The aesthetics are nice and the gameplay fundamentals are pretty good, but this seems like a game that would have benefited from some Early Access testing metrics. It's just relatively easy to smash the game's balance into itty bitty pieces. Without going into too specific detail, the player is heavily rewarded for utilizing bonus attacks and AOEs. With the right setup you're able to cluster up the enemies into a tight little mosh pit and hit them repeatedly, which stuns them all and puts your hero into a frenzy state where you deal double damage and have massive mobility. It's fun, but I hope the game has a NG+ or something where the most abusable systems get chilled out a bit.

I'll update the thread if/when I ever die.

Ihmemies
Oct 6, 2012



I played a bit of FTL yesterday. Wish they'd made a sequel or more content. Good game.

I also played Dungeonmans, long time since last time. I died a couple of times in starter dungeons, until I realized I need a baby mode character and rolled a wizardmans. Decoys, blinks, ice walls, AOE spells and all that help a ton. Now I'm streamrolling through dungeons (until I derp and die). Good game too! I like roguelikes with good graphics.

Stoneshard looks good too but no save on exit in 2020? Lol.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Bought Cogmind 4 years ago, played it for the first time recently. It owns a lot. I'm particularly impressed by the fantastic audio and visuals that still manage to stay true to the ASCII feel of the traditional games.

Patware
Jan 3, 2005



good god CDDA is a lot huh???

Ihmemies
Oct 6, 2012



Mmm, cogmind looks good. Especially the promises of no unfair play or instant deaths, and stealth being an option to complete the game. No exp/skill dependancy, only gear matters. And the game tells roughly how bad enemies you face and what works, what doesn't. Sounds really good.. and only 20Ä.. I'll have to give it a try after work.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



It takes very long for you to actually die in Cogmind. To the point where you can see your death approaching like 50 turns ahead.

As a last resort you can even "go naked" drop all your parts and woop woop woop roll away from all the enemies and even then still have a chance at beating the game because the spare parts are still abundant.

Ihmemies
Oct 6, 2012



Sounds too good to be true! In Dungeonmans I died in 2 turns because I didn't realize that laser shot boss in 2nd starter dungeon reeealllyy hurts you. Oh hmm, now this is a big room. Oh a boss, ok let's try to beat h.... Zap zap rip.

MORE TAXES WHEN
Jul 25, 2013



srulz posted:

So if we're done making fun of Dredmor, how's Crown Trick really? Seems fun from the few streams of the game I've watched, though the combat against bosses seems very involved. Almost like Tome 4, as that's the closest comparison point I think.

Not sure if the combat will become repetitive/tedious later on. Graphic is really good though.

I'm on my fourth run so far, and I've only died once (on my first run, to the last boss), so it's definitely a lot more forgiving in its early stages than traditional roguelikes. It's structured as a bunch of dungeons with a central hub area, and there's some reasonably impactful but not super necessary metaprogression. You'd think that the meta bonus would be more helpful but as somebody said above you can get done pretty strong builds going without them.

The combat itself feels really good, though. Each weapon has its own attack pattern, and it has 4- directional movement, which serves to emphasize positioning a lot. There's very real complex resource management, it's mostly a series of interesting tactical encounters, which I'm enjoying so far. Unsure on longevity, so far each new dungeon has been distinct with a unique boss so it's probably good for at least one playthrough.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

Ihmemies posted:

Sounds too good to be true! In Dungeonmans I died in 2 turns because I didn't realize that laser shot boss in 2nd starter dungeon reeealllyy hurts you. Oh hmm, now this is a big room. Oh a boss, ok let's try to beat h.... Zap zap rip.

Oh yeah, archer bosses can be dangerous. Dungeonmans is one of those games that's just gonna kill you a few times before you start remembering what enemies do and taking bosses seriously (generally by using consumables instead of saving them). In this case, ironskin potions would have helped against the super-shot, and the Ignore Laughable Projectiles scroll would have prevented the boss's regular attacks from damaging you.

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004



Impermanent posted:

They wanted to be a df like but also with Lovecraft madness your villagers could succumb to and secret societies your guys could join and a procedurally generated relationship to the empire back home, so not only larger in scope than rim world, but also doing what literally dwarf fortress is now barely starting to be able to do.

It was an amazing level of scope creep but to their credit I spent an evening sitting at a table drinking a caramel macchiato on the free Starbucks wifi in 2012, the second worst year of my life, on a decaying Amazon fire tablet reading those dev diaries and getting pumped so it wasn't all entirely without merit.



Lol at this comment on their last devblog entry ever

Snake Maze
Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago
  • Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus


Magitek posted:

With the right setup you're able to cluster up the enemies into a tight little mosh pit and hit them repeatedly, which stuns them all and puts your hero into a frenzy state where you deal double damage and have massive mobility.

I assume youíre talking about the gravity field/earthquake combo here? Itís really strong but at this point Iíve put together 3 or 4 different skill and relic combos that synergize incredibly well and break the game just as hard, so I think it might just be that kind of game.

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


everyone in this thread should have thrown money at cogmind by now, it's the real deal

Ihmemies
Oct 6, 2012



I started Cogmind today. Just got out of the first area, to 2nd area. A couple of guys to kill but then a massive, massive amount of gear everywhere. Ok, I proceed to 3rd zone, same thing. So much stuff everywhere! Screen is full of loot I have no idea what to do with. Where does all this stuff come from



Also, how I can get more weapon & utility slots?

Magitek
Feb 20, 2008


Snake Maze posted:

I assume youíre talking about the gravity field/earthquake combo here? Itís really strong but at this point Iíve put together 3 or 4 different skill and relic combos that synergize incredibly well and break the game just as hard, so I think it might just be that kind of game.

Yeah thatís the thing, every run Iíve had involves some broken build. Gravity Field alone is utterly insane ó ďblack holeĒ-style spells tend to be strong in this genre, but in this game with these specific mechanics, clustering up and stunning enemies is absurdly useful. They could double the mana cost and cooldown and it would still be the best spell in the game.

Then thereís Demonic Stance, or the spear that pulses electricity, or the axe that does an AOE disable when you kill something, or the combo of bracers that produce a bonus attack if youíre striking a weakness + the tarot deck that lets you induce a weakness... anything that lets you Break multiple enemies efficiently can allow you to clown the entire room.

The hardest encounter by far Iíve run into was the ďTrial of WisdomĒ, specifically because it strips away elements that allow you to turn into an OP monster. None of the many adds have shields so you canít build the Break combo, and you have to be directly adjacent to the boss to damage him so you have to eat some autoattacks. Plus the nature of the add waves means you have to be careful when you Break him, otherwise youíll be too busy running for your life when youíre supposed to be burning his health.

edit: Also Iím convinced that the main character has no arms, like Monster Kid from Undertale. You canít unsee it now.

Magitek fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Oct 19, 2020

Pacra
Aug 5, 2004

dom dom dom


Patware posted:

good god CDDA is a lot huh???

I really like the core of CDDA but it suffers right now from:

1. Prioritizing "realism" over "fun gameplay"
2. Having no overarching goals other than "build your deathmobile" (which is extremely cool and good, but the game could get into the stratosphere with fleshed out endgame)
3. Many crafting choices make no sense, progression exists but doesn't make sense
4. A ton of other little details that will probably be worked on before the top 3 unfortunately

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Ihmemies posted:

Also, how I can get more weapon & utility slots?

You evolve or "level up" by entering a higher floor. Branches are usually on the same level so they don't let you evolve. You can check out the world map by pressing Backspace.
When you evolve you heal to max and get to add 2 more slots of the kind you want.

EDIT: Also note that all enemies always have the same loadouts. So if you're looking for certain items you can always know which enemies to kill to get them.

Also also, I highly recommend opening the Manual in the system menu and reading survival tips.

Jack Trades fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Oct 19, 2020

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Pacra posted:

I really like the core of CDDA but it suffers right now from:

1. Prioritizing "realism" over "fun gameplay"
2. Having no overarching goals other than "build your deathmobile" (which is extremely cool and good, but the game could get into the stratosphere with fleshed out endgame)
3. Many crafting choices make no sense, progression exists but doesn't make sense
4. A ton of other little details that will probably be worked on before the top 3 unfortunately

the game used to have a clearer and more sensible gear progression but IIRC a while back they went through and ripped out anything that represented a singular, obvious endgame goal because that would be too easy or something

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Sloppy
Apr 25, 2003

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.

I wishlisted Undermine a long time ago because it looked interesting. Now it's on sale, anyone have thoughts on it?

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