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Prism
Dec 22, 2007


Dr. Arbitrary posted:

Right, but the Gariland battle is right at the beginning and has a bunch of houses to fight on top of.

No archers and it's not a shantytown. I stand by it.

StrixNebulosa posted:

Dropping in to say there's an hour left to back Tangledeep! All the stretch goals have been hit, to boot!

e: Aaand it's over! Funded, all stretchgoals, and I'm excited!

I'm glad. Congratulations, zirconmusic!

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madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

General Emergency posted:

Damnit madjackmcmad and the roguelikes thread... You cost me 15bux.


You did the right thing. Grab a build! Reminds me, I gotta change up the dmans build to take out the tangledeep stuff. brb

Amuys
Jan 2, 2017


Does money have any real purpose in ToME?

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

No fear! No pain!


Amuys posted:

Does money have any real purpose in ToME?

Lets you buy better/alternate equipment! I've used it to pick up good shielding infusions if I can't find any, or decent gloves. Dunno about medium or even high level play, though, as I'm not that good.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Amuys posted:

Does money have any real purpose in ToME?

Yes, absolutely. Picking +HP, +healmod%, and +armor items (and also good infusions) from stores in the early game is incredibly important, especially on higher difficulties, and later on there's a merchant who sells tier 5 randarts for several thousand gold apiece.

There's a stretch in the middle where you won't be buying much (although you might have to hunt through the stores for a water-breathing hat or +con items so you can boost Thick Skin without loving up your build) but at worst you're saving it for later.

Amuys
Jan 2, 2017


I guess. The prices are so horrific that I only bought a rare rune or waterbreathing item.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

Shops are decent in the early game, look out for strong runes and infusions, and check out the lantern shop in Derth, a +health lantern can easily be your best option well into the lategame. Angolwen can make rings for cheap that are better than most rings you can find or buy. Last Hope, Angolwen, and Zigur sell better items, if you save the merchant from the assassin you can buy an insane reward from him later for a lot of gold.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Amuys posted:

I guess. The prices are so horrific that I only bought a rare rune or waterbreathing item.

This is another of the reasons Normal sucks: you make no money.

SpacePope
Nov 9, 2009



Fun Shoe

Yeah if you play insane you're going to swim in gold, all those uniques sell for way more than the basic stuff you get in normal.

Amuys
Jan 2, 2017


That makes me ask the question: What Roguelikes does money well?
I like Crawl just for Gozag.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

My fingers are set to vibrate


Amuys posted:

That makes me ask the question: What Roguelikes does money well?
I like Crawl just for Gozag.

FTL does money well. It's also your experience points, effectively, in that you can spend money either on buying stuff or on upgrading your ship. But money is the only way to get new systems for your ship, and is by far the most reliable way to get new weapons or ship augments.

Most games that do money poorly tend to make money too easy to get, and/or make the stuff you can buy not really notable compared to the stuff you can find. I'm sympathetic to the latter issue because IMO just up and buying some awesome new thing isn't usually as interesting as winning it through battle or cunning. It works in FTL because the entire game is a matter of scraping by on hope and a prayer, so any edge you can find is welcome, no matter how you come by it.

octobernight
Nov 24, 2004
High Priest of the Christian-Atheist Church

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

This is another of the reasons Normal sucks: you make no money.

I started on Normal, but it was so slow. Nightmare has been fun, but I've only made it to the East before getting killed. Do you need to have optimal builds on Nightmare, or can most combos get through it? I've restarted with Cornac Archmage, and the extra category point has been super helpful, but I think the lack of racials that the elf race has might hinder me late game.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Archmage is so loving ridiculously powerful in the lategame - and has so many good options for category points - that a Cornac Archmage is a pretty solid choice imo.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


octobernight posted:

I started on Normal, but it was so slow. Nightmare has been fun, but I've only made it to the East before getting killed. Do you need to have optimal builds on Nightmare, or can most combos get through it? I've restarted with Cornac Archmage, and the extra category point has been super helpful, but I think the lack of racials that the elf race has might hinder me late game.

On Nightmare you want to make good decisions and not just throw skill points around at random but you can get away with a lot. What I mainly did was imitate previous winners and make small adjustments here and there to taste.

Pacra
Aug 5, 2004



Herbotron posted:

the worst thing about Dijkstra's algorithm is that he worked it out in about twenty minutes on a napkin and I will never be that smart

Speaking for anyone who has been playing all the roguelikes the last ten years, reading these roguebasin articles is a screaming WHY DIDN'T YOU THINK ABOUT THIS AT ANY TIME WHILE PLAYING ALL THOSE ROGUELIKES YOU BIG DUMB GOOF PLAYER

omeg
Sep 3, 2012



What was that "game" which shows that a really smart AI isn't necessarily fun? Something like "smart goblins" but I can't seem to find it.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


omeg posted:

What was that "game" which shows that a really smart AI isn't necessarily fun? Something like "smart goblins" but I can't seem to find it.

Smart Kobold

To be perfectly honest, it's kind of hard to judge whether the kobold AI is the problem vs. the ridiculous topological bullshit and lack of adequate mapping.

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at Apr 24, 2017 around 17:40

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013



I got into Gearhead 2 again. You can commit culinary terrorism and help a dude blow up a bacteria bomb to sabotage space McDonald's.

Gearhead 2 is such a good game. The creator has been writing retrospectives of 1 and 2 and applying some fixes for the last couple months now, and talking about what he is going to change for whatever the next iteration of the series is going to be. Hopefully something good comes out of it.

Also picking born to fly as your talent and the wraith as your starting mech (which isn't even a mech, its a aerofighter) makes the game feel super good. You are ace combating a bunch of robots and the occasional jet.

Artificer
Apr 8, 2010

You're going to try ponies and you're. Going. To. LOVE. ME!!

Snooze Cruise posted:

I got into Gearhead 2 again. You can commit culinary terrorism and help a dude blow up a bacteria bomb to sabotage space McDonald's.

Gearhead 2 is such a good game. The creator has been writing retrospectives of 1 and 2 and applying some fixes for the last couple months now, and talking about what he is going to change for whatever the next iteration of the series is going to be. Hopefully something good comes out of it.

Also picking born to fly as your talent and the wraith as your starting mech (which isn't even a mech, its a aerofighter) makes the game feel super good. You are ace combating a bunch of robots and the occasional jet.

That actually sounds really sexy. I should check it out.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013



One thing you should probably know going in is captial U lets you use your mecha's systems. This is very imporant because it lets you use your scanners to reveal hidden units on the overmaps when you are doing quests where you are trying to hunt down the baddies, otherwise you will be wandering around blind until you randomly hit them.

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox


Been playing a bit of Flinthook. It's really charming aesthetically and the gameplay is pretty entertaining (though a bit simple).

Biggest problem though is when you die on a boss, and you will, it can take 30-45 minutes to get another shot at it. And I'm still in the early game, so it wouldn't surprise me to see that number increase.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die

PantsBandit posted:

Been playing a bit of Flinthook. It's really charming aesthetically and the gameplay is pretty entertaining (though a bit simple).

Biggest problem though is when you die on a boss, and you will, it can take 30-45 minutes to get another shot at it. And I'm still in the early game, so it wouldn't surprise me to see that number increase.

Yeah I've been playing a lot of it too, but I just stalled right the gently caress out on the second level. I suck too much to beat the boss, and the upgrades have gotten a lot more costly and are only incrementally useful.

I mean, I think I could beat the boss if I could make it to him with more than 30 health, but it seems like there's always a trap room that just shits all over me.

Maybe the real progress is getting one of those rooms and going "You know what, I'm just going to ignore this room completely."

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox


PostNouveau posted:

Yeah I've been playing a lot of it too, but I just stalled right the gently caress out on the second level. I suck too much to beat the boss, and the upgrades have gotten a lot more costly and are only incrementally useful.

I mean, I think I could beat the boss if I could make it to him with more than 30 health, but it seems like there's always a trap room that just shits all over me.

Maybe the real progress is getting one of those rooms and going "You know what, I'm just going to ignore this room completely."

Yeah the second boss is what I'm stuck on too. Even if I get there with full health I don't manage to get close to beating him. It's not that I don't understand what I'm supposed to do, it's just that he has a ludicrous amount of hp considering how many things you need to be dodging to deal with him. Also if you don't get some kind of range upgrade in your run, actually hitting him can be extremely difficult. You need to hover above his head, since there's nowhere to stand that gives you a shot, and if you over-commit and end up touching him you take damage that you really can't afford.

I get the idea of a tough-as-nails platformer roguelike, but the main gameplay loop needs to be WAY more interesting than Flinthook's if they expect you to have to retry a boss several times. They should just give you some kind of shortcut once you get to him the first time.

PantsBandit fucked around with this message at Apr 25, 2017 around 14:53

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die

PantsBandit posted:

Yeah the second boss is what I'm stuck on too. Even if I get there with full health I don't manage to get close to beating him. It's not that I don't understand what I'm supposed to do, it's just that he has a ludicrous amount of hp considering how many things you need to be dodging to deal with him. Also if you don't get some kind of range upgrade in your run, actually hitting him can be extremely difficult. You need to hover above his head, since there's nowhere to stand that gives you a shot, and if you over-commit and end up touching him you take damage that you really can't afford.

I get the idea of a tough-as-nails platformer roguelike, but the main gameplay loop needs to be WAY more interesting than Flinthook's if they expect you to have to retry a boss several times. They should just give you some kind of shortcut once you get to him the first time.

Oh yeah, that's a good idea. Maybe something a bit like Enter the Gungeon where you pay resources to permanently open a shortcut. Or if it were just like 1 of those green jewels per shot, I'd pay that too.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die

I also have a perk that mentions "your sidekick," and if there's some game mechanic that gives you a sidekick, I haven't seen it.

superh
Oct 10, 2007

Touching every treasure

It's probably not in the true-blue-grognard spirit of the roguelike thread to post about it - but Deathstate launched on PS4 today, which is still blowing my mind. Have some (US only) keys, thread!!



7K68-9BN7-H34Q
9TM7-7PNJ-5MB2
6CBR-P6NB-6E6E
8DAK-93NH-TPKE
APT6-PDNC-4G65

Emong
May 31, 2011

perpair to be annihilated


superh posted:

It's probably not in the true-blue-grognard spirit of the roguelike thread to post about it - but Deathstate launched on PS4 today, which is still blowing my mind. Have some (US only) keys, thread!!

8DAK-93NH-TPKE

Snatched up this one. Thanks, friend.

Crimbo Hardstyle
Apr 23, 2006

Young punks, get off my lawn!



superh posted:

It's probably not in the true-blue-grognard spirit of the roguelike thread to post about it - but Deathstate launched on PS4 today, which is still blowing my mind. Have some (US only) keys, thread!!

APT6-PDNC-4G65

I grabbed this one, thanks and congrats on getting your very cool game on ps4!

Danith
May 19, 2006
I've lurked here for years

superh posted:

It's probably not in the true-blue-grognard spirit of the roguelike thread to post about it - but Deathstate launched on PS4 today, which is still blowing my mind. Have some (US only) keys, thread!!



6CBR-P6NB-6E6E


Took that one, thanks! Been looking forward to playing this.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




superh posted:

9TM7-7PNJ-5MB2

Thank ya kindly. Wishing you and your game a stay on the Store leaderboards.

dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at Apr 25, 2017 around 23:49

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009



superh posted:

7K68-9BN7-H34Q

Thanks, grabbed this one. I hope Sony puts you guys in a featured spot on the store. You did a great job with your cover art though. Really stands out in the listing.

VolticSurge
Jul 23, 2013

This is no shitpost,boy! No shitpost!



superh posted:

It's probably not in the true-blue-grognard spirit of the roguelike thread to post about it - but Deathstate launched on PS4 today

Not showing up for me. Unless it releases at a different time in Canada?

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009



superh posted:

It's probably not in the true-blue-grognard spirit of the roguelike thread to post about it - but Deathstate launched on PS4 today, which is still blowing my mind. Have some (US only) keys, thread!!



This game is pretty great. I am absolutely in love with the music. Its like perfect 90s MIDI.

So far the single stick shooter mechanic auto tracks exactly where I'd want so you guys must have some interesting code that is doing a good job of anticipating the player.

Nothing seems awry on the PS4 port.

packetmantis
Feb 26, 2013

oh ar


Is there any new stuff in the PS4 version? Are you guys planning to add more now that you're done with this? I want more Deathstate!

superh
Oct 10, 2007

Touching every treasure

VolticSurge posted:

Not showing up for me. Unless it releases at a different time in Canada?

Unfortunately it's not out in Europe yet (and I'm guessing Canada is technically "Europe" as far as Sony is concerned?) Sorry about that. we're moving to get that approval and launch asap.

In the mean time - people may have noticed already but the steam version is on sale, and once the sales over its getting a final price drop to $9.99. The Steam version is available world wide.

packetmantis posted:

Is there any new stuff in the PS4 version? Are you guys planning to add more now that you're done with this? I want more Deathstate!

Feature wise, the two versions are basically identical! PS4 has all the Abyssal Edition stuff, and the few things we've added since then. Technically the PS4 version might have one or two minor balance changes that aren't on Steam yet?

We're not done with Deathstate though!! Now that we've launched in the US, the next goal is the European launch, and we're going to start streaming development once we get some setup out of the way.

I've got a lot of things I personally want to add, I want more Deathstate too!!

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


The Laplace Demon posted:

For everybody else who hadn't heard of "Dijkstra maps": run Dijkstra's algorithm to find the distance in steps of every node from a goal node and cache the result. The resulting "matrix" can be used to find the shortest path from any node to the player by repeatedly choosing the neighbor with the lowest value (duh, this is a shortest path tree). The creator of Brogue noticed that these maps can be combined in AI by subtracting or multiplying the values at each node per map according to priorities (e.g. goblins prefer picking up gold vs attacking the player) and combining maps by taking the minimum at each node. RougeBasin has a page visualizing these "summed" maps

Holy poo poo, that's super cool.

I've been extremely burned out on non-work coding lately but this is making me want to get back into rogueliking so I have an excuse to use them.

VolticSurge
Jul 23, 2013

This is no shitpost,boy! No shitpost!



superh posted:

Unfortunately it's not out in Europe yet (and I'm guessing Canada is technically "Europe" as far as Sony is concerned?) Sorry about that. we're moving to get that approval and launch asap.

In the mean time - people may have noticed already but the steam version is on sale, and once the sales over its getting a final price drop to $9.99. The Steam version is available world wide.

Weird thing is, this is the first time it's happened, as far as I know. Usually things come out in Canada on the US release date, because it's part of the continent and all.

Funso Banjo
Dec 22, 2003


I wonder if you're planning on releasing on mobile at some point. Looks like a good fit for tablets.

superh
Oct 10, 2007

Touching every treasure

VolticSurge posted:

Weird thing is, this is the first time it's happened, as far as I know. Usually things come out in Canada on the US release date, because it's part of the continent and all.

Yeah it's definitely weird. We're reaching out to see where the issue lies - I'll definitely keep you updated once we know more. Sorry about that


Funso Banjo posted:

I wonder if you're planning on releasing on mobile at some point. Looks like a good fit for tablets.

We don't currently have any plans for a mobile port - but I agree that it would be a good fit! I used to be worried that the post effects just wouldn't work on mobile but that might not be the case with modern phones. Maybe we'll get a chance to explore that sometime soon!

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SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017



Where do I submit feedback/bug reports on Tangledeep? I'm enjoying the game but there are a few things I'd like to see improved or fixed.

Primary thing is once I turned on Thundering Lion there's no way to turn it off and my energy is being drained nonstop.

A couple of secondary things: item effects aren't described in the description blurb in the inventory. It would be good to be able to rearrange my skills on my hotbar, or even to remove them in favor of other skills.

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