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Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

TheMightyCheese posted:

Another possibility for the OP is Risk of Rain, which is a platformer roguelike-like based around surviving on an alien planet while everything tries to kill you.

The central idea of the game is that time equals difficulty, and so the longer you survive, the harder it gets, so you have to balance between rushing to the next level or sticking around to try to find items while more and more monsters pop up to try to murder and eat you. It's got a sufficiently merciless normal difficulty, as well as a hardcore mode that can be pretty brutal, and of course the usual permadeath.

Besides that, it's a class-based game where each class (six so far out of a planned ten) has four abilities. You level up, but that's just automatic stat increases, and your real boosts in power are from the huge number of items (many of the items and classes will need to be unlocked in the final release, but in the beta it's mostly just available so it can be tested immediately) that you buy from chests or gamble on from shrines or get from bosses when you kill them. One of the best decisions the devs made, in my opinion, was to make every item have a very clear and distinct effect, usually with a visual indicator to go along with it, so that you're not finding something and going "oh it's just a little damage boost", it's "aw yeah my shots all explode for extra damage now" or "I leave a trail of fire everywhere I go" et cetera.

The game had a pretty successful kickstarter campaign, and currently it's still in beta (which is paid, and more expensive than just preordering with no beta access), getting updates every couple of weeks, usually with a bugfix a day or two after each content update, and the devs have been very open about everything on the forums as they work on it. It was originally slated for release in August, but that got pushed back when the devs decided to include online multiplayer as well as the already planned local co-op, which basically involved redoing a lot of the code from the ground up. More features are still in the works, and the actual ending of the game isn't in yet, so you just loop through the levels for as long as you can survive currently, but the game already plays very well even in its current state.



gently caress you, you just cost me $25 and my entire afternoon

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Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Yeah, It could use some talent/perks so you can round out your char when you get screwed by the item rng. Some classes are pretty much unplayable unless you get lifeleech/life on kill in the first 2-3 stages.

A minimap and sloping the "kill all enemies to exit stage" mechanic would also be welcome.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Risk of rain gets kinda hilarious on the 4th loop. Bosses spawn faster than I can kill them and eventually the game just crashes. Gamemaker .

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

2 loops on normal in risk of rain!

They really need to normalize the power curve and randomize the map more for release.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

It's an excellent game, but it's more of a puzzler with some rpg-lite added. At least it was when I bought in a couple of years ago.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

andrew smash posted:

Tome is full tiles now, i think there might be an ascii tileset you can pick but that's it. Also tome levels are boring as poo poo IMO, it's a really strong game mechanics-wise but the world is soooooo dead.

Yeah, it could really use crawls amount of vaults/flavor vaults with a massive reduction in both number and size of levels. The character building is really fun and more than once I've wanted to start the exact same character to try another build after a win.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

S.T.C.A. posted:

That's true, I was thinking about that when I posted. Despite Crawl having no overworld, there's all kinds of neat little events that outshine the vaults of ToME. Like there are vaults in Crawl too, but there's also neat little altars, random events, thematic rooms, thematic rooms special to thematic floors, etc. Even though you're going through a relatively linear dungeon, it eventually starts to feel like the main D1-D27 is the overworld with all the branches being different locations.

The branch themed enemies help alot as well. In tome I'm mowing through screens full of orcs/ghosts/halflings but due to everything being pretty much every class or a hybrid of every class in the game, it ends up feeling very much the same. In crawl I know where to stay the gently caress away from if I lack certain gear, abilities or resists (which could use a tweak as well, who gives a poo poo about half of them when there's 16+ or so).

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

doctorfrog posted:

Yahtzee is making a Cthulhuesque "Survival Horror Roguelike."

http://fullyramblomatic-yahtzee.blo...w-consumed.html

I stopped watching his videos some time ago because I realized that witty videos weren't super big things in my life, but I'm interested in seeing how this goes.

That sounds kinda interesting, but "survival horror roguelike" made me realize how awesome a RE:Revelations raidmode with random levels and way faster weapon/mod upgrading would be.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

iirc you can use the minimap with the mouse on webtiles, which is great and pretty much the only place where I feel it's more efficient than keyboard only.

And yes, buy tome on steam.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Harminoff posted:

Herosiege is out. Tried it on my tablet but runs really slow. Think I might pick it up on PC though
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...s/?id=182280302

I'd impulse buy this at $5-7 or so, but 12 for what looks like Arena of Isaac? gently caress you.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Naar posted:

Are Claustrophobia or Hero Siege any good? I can't seem to find much in the way of reviews.

Not really. Hero siege is a fun concept (old wc3 UMS poo poo) but it's very obviously a tablet game ported to pc. Buy the pack anyways for one way heroics.

e: Where's my retail burbenog TD ? I'm right here, ready to throw money at you.

Klaus Kinski fucked around with this message at Dec 26, 2013 around 22:57

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

BobMcFartsens posted:

Speaking of FTL, a free expansion was just put out last week! It is very very good.

Adds a bunch of new weapons, encounters, a bunch of new ship varients, a new race, ship and two new sectors!

Did I mention it's free with the base game?

Probably my new favorite RL.

I've been playing it as well and I don't think I've ever experienced getting hosed by the RNG as much as this. Even on normal it becomes a nightmare really fast if the stores/events are stingy with upgrades.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

omeg posted:

Thing is, you rarely are in a situation where you just lose. Long-time strategy that prepares you for some incoming bullshit is as important as ship-to-ship combat tactics. You can just die in the early sectors, but if you die near the end chances are you just didn't prepare well or made wrong choices.

..or just got flat out hosed by the rng. I got to sector 8 without seeing a single weapon upgrade as rock B and while I could grind down most normal ships with my trusty teleporter and the starter firebomb, it was way too slow to work vs the flagship. And rock B is one of the strongest starting ships.

If stores had a larger selection, it would be much easier to work towards a reasonable goal instead of commiting to a weapon/drone/boarding build early and praying the rest of the pieces fall into place later.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Pladdicus posted:

I think FTL is a lot less chaotic and rng based then people like to admit. There's a lot of ways to mitigate risk and still be able to win by the end of the run, there's so many decisions an possibilities it feels chaotic, but I think it's still quite controllable.

Actually, that there aren't enough options or choices is the real problem. You basically blind draw event cards for your way through sector, sometimes you'll pull 1 or 2 less depending on the layout. There's an optimal way to fire your guns based on setup and what kind of enemy you're fighting rarely change this. You have to decide pretty early what you want to commit your scrap to if you want to have a chance to kill the flagship and then you're at the stores mercy.

The events and tedious micromanagement are also annoying the gently caress out of me, especially when you get rolling and 75% of the battles are just fodder. It's not fun or challenging playing some lovely mini-sims just to heal up my crew and repair all the systems. Having a wiki page opens just so I can ctrl-f whatever event I just found isn't fun either. A mod that fully healed and repaired the ship on safe FTL jumps and changed the event text to just spell out what will happen would make it way more playable.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

omeg posted:

How is learning outcomes of FTL events different from learning what various enemies/encounters can do in Crawl/ADOM/whatever?

Because many of them are pure rng based and the outcome is impossible to predict based on the information you're given. In crawl you can ctrl-X (or V?) enemies and get an almost complete rundown of their abilities and resistances.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

IronicDongz posted:

But that's exactly what makes it so interesting! I absolutely hate grinding with no limit, it just leads to unfun gameplay. The 'timer' of the rebel fleet forces you to make meaningful decisions about where to go and when on each starmap, and adds a fuckton of tension to the overarching strategy of constructing your build to clear the final boss with. If there was no final challenging boss it'd be piss-easy.

Meaningful decisions? . You plan out a route that allows you to hit as many nodes as possible, it takes a few seconds per sector. You adjust it slightly to account for stores. The rebels catching up to you is pure murder in AE and I can't see it ever being worth it. I'd almost prefer it auto-drawing encounters from a deck of cards.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Unormal posted:

You never need to run your drives at max the whole fight, only when shots are incoming, so you can always bounce the power between your drive and O2.

This is my #2 problem with ftl. So much tedious micromanagement bullshit. Playing like this isn't hard when you can just mash pause all the time.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Rogue's tale is on indieroyale in case you've wanted to try it. It's still not super cheap but comes with a bunch of shovelware you'll probably never play!

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus


I'm in euroland where it was a solid 50% off when it launched

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

German Joey posted:

oh my loving god

Here we go!

I hope the insane guy that had a list with like 20 things a game needed to qualify as a roguelike weighs in again!

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

German Joey posted:

Yes, a list so insane and convoluted that it consists of a single line: if the game plays and feels similar enough to the game "Rogue" then it is in the "Roguelike" genre, if it does not then it is not.

Not you. The last time This Discussion happened, someone came in guns blazing and declared pretty much every game a not-roguelike unless it had a minimum of X stats and CRPG advancement etc. It was glorious.

And Abyss Odyssey looks like an instabuy, a roguemetroidvanialike where the combat doesn't suck poo poo?

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

As long as you don't push buttons while sliding on ice, you don't lose your multiplier.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

The worst imbalance so far is necrodancer's soundtrack not being available on spotify, get to work danny b

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Callick posted:

I don't really read this thread but I just wanted to (hopefully) echo the sentiment that Crypt of the Necrodancer loving owns.

Why isn't the soundtrack on spotify.

I paid $10 extra to not feel guilty for pirating the soundtrack

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

maketakunai posted:

What's different about the Soundtrack version? I ask because the base game has all the stage music in the game folder as .oggs (and the shopkeeper voices under streaming_music if you want to overlap the two in Audacity or something, they fit together perfectly), albeit untagged. Is it higher quality or something?

I think the only difference is that the soundtrack dlc has all the songs in .mp3 in a /soundtrack folder.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

doctorfrog posted:

I want to believe it's an amazing game, but the video just looks like a "pedal backwards while holding fire" type of experience. I've got Tower of Guns, I'm good with random shooters for the time being.

Everyone here seems to get different things out of roguelikes, and what I'd like to see in an FPS roguelike is that good item/environment/etc interaction, like rooms and zombies in flames in Brogue, or falling down stairs in Nethack because you're overburdened. Then turning to stone because your wielded cockatrice corpse touched you. It doesn't need to be that wacky, but it should be something other than poison/flame/splash damage being the height of item interaction in FPS.

There's time yet, the visuals look wonderful, who knows how gameplay will shape up?

I took the plunge and it's not very interesting. Boring rooms, ok enemies, boring weapons. It could turn out great, but currently it's a don't buy.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

icantfindaname posted:

Yeah trying to make a Doom-esque roguelike FPS is the most baffling thing, because literally the thing that makes Doom a great game is the level design. Having an computer poo poo out levels at random completely destroys its appeal.

And BTW I think the statement above works almost as well if you remove the "FPS". Basically the game that defined what roguelike is was Nethack, but in my opinion the defining characteristics of that game had very little to do with the randomization and more to do with the meticulousness and clever thinking required during play. It's almost an adventure game in certain ways. Unfortunately it's borderline unplayable because of difficulty and the 'clever thinking' is just way, way, way too obtuse, but I don't think I've seen a single one of this wave of roguelike games that tries to take that and fix it or make it works opposed to just acting like procedural level generation were the second coming of Christ. Brogue comes pretty close. Maybe that's the tabletop/D&D aspects of Nethack and the original roguelikes? In any case I just don't really feel like procedural generation is all that useful in game design.

If they actually poo poo out levels at random it would be somewhat interesting. Right now you go from bad and boring pre-designed room to the next.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Jenx posted:

Oh hey, lots of posts in the Roguelike thread, maybe someone has shared some interesting new....oh wait.

As it often happens on the Internet, I have to just sit here and wonder - is Turtlicious just taking the piss, or is he really that stupid and uninformed?

After reading his posts in the dota thread, I'm pretty sure it's the latter or he's playing the long con.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

TOOT BOOT posted:

I always miss the Sproggiwood keys by like 20 minutes.

I blame euro timezones

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

I ran into a hilarious bug. I got one of the teleport-when-hit armors. Got hit and the game froze for a couple of seconds and when it started responding again, it didn't generate new terrain in unexplored areas

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

The #1 secret tome doesn't want you to know is that you need very little +damage stats/skills to progress. Focus on defensive stuff and the game is alot easier, just put enough into your mainstat to level up skills and pour the rest into con.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Untimely Brigand posted:

Showing a little love here for Vagante.

Cost: $14.99 on Steam Early Access, free demo on the Vagante website.
Genre: Hybrid Platformer-Roguelike
Graphics: "Dark" pixel art.
Platform: Windows (Mac and Linux "coming soon")
Multiplayer: Local, 4 players.
Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8bamfbDHUw


Vagante feels like what I wanted to play as soon as Spelunky came out. It has the same brutal gameplay as the latter, but is also knee-deep in rpg features. There are three starting classes that I've seen so far: knight (melee), rogue (ranged), and mage (spellcasting). You aren't limited by your starting class, however; I played as a knight who read a couple spellbooks and had a pretty sweet longbow as a ranged weapon--of course, after getting the longbow, I was knocked off a platform into a bed of spikes. There is some permanent progression; as you unlock secret achievements, you unlock starting traits, of which you can select one at character selection.

You start the game with one affinity point, which you can assign to level up certain traits. A mage, for example, can put a point into "Potion Knowledge" which identifies all potions by default. That affinity can be leveled up to Chemical Transmutation, which allows you to combine two potions to make a new one. It looks like you can level up and gain more affinity points, but I haven't survived long enough to do so.

There is also plenty of itemization--outside of the standard +'s and -'s to stats, there are also some gameplay-enhancing abilities that items can have, like wall-grabbing, water breathing, mana regen, etc. A lot of staple roguelike scrolls (magic mapping, teleportation, etc.) and potions (poison, healing, strength, etc.) can also be found.

Overall, it's pretty fun. You should check out the demo if you're interested.

This is pretty fun but the spikes/falling block instagibs feel really out place/pace when the rest of the game is kinda slow.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Turtlicious posted:

Yo unormal I have like 30 steambux let me buy CoQ on steam plz

I'll never play it but I'll throw you steambux for all the hilarious stories I've read about it.

fe: Until it has Good Tiles.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

madjackmcmad posted:

An immutable law of customer interactions, which is also why there will never be auto explore or click to move in Dungeonmans. It's never enough. I'd end up with reviews like "I can't believe the auto-pathing 'algorithim' prioritized picking up the two handed hammer before the two handed sword when my play history has shown a clear preference for edged weapons. 1/10 No-Buy, here's a link to the torrent."

Auto-explore DLC?

I'll throw you another $5 for it.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Wafflecopper posted:

This sounds really cool. Sucks to be the first guy who dies though, if you're doing permadeath.

I assume the permadeath would be there for full wipes. Half the fun in coop games is when poo poo hits the fan and you're desperately trying to revive people or soloing a fight intended for way more people.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Poison Mushroom posted:

I'm working on Version 1.03 right now, doing a major overhaul of the tables, and normalizing the difficulty somewhat, as well as improving the formatting of the rules pages. Once that's done, and I've let the ideas get tested a fair bit more, 1.04 will probably mostly be class rebalancing, and then I'll likely put new updates on the backburner for a while. I have some other ideas for similar games that have been coalescing since I started S'xsyde, and I wanna give those a shake, too.

I'll suck your dick if you develop this into a full multiplayer boardgame. Or pay you. Your choice.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Wizard's lizard is a decent BoI-like.

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

I think you lock items with numpad 5?

Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Awesome! posted:

my favorites from that list: isaac, teleglitch, crypt, ftl, hero siege, dead ninjas, risk of rain, spelunky, tome. yea i like tome deal with it

some of the others are ok too

Tome is good. This list is good.

Desktop dungeons is more of a puzzle game but it's fun and there's a ton of content. I'm not sure but I think the steam version gives access to the mobile version as well?

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Klaus Kinski
Nov 26, 2007
Der Klaus

Unormal posted:

FTL is the goddamn bomb and anyone who says it's too RNG is just bad at FTL.

I got gud cause I'm really stupid and for the first 40 hours I had no clue you could pause during combat and I was like like "drat, people are right this poo poo is hard!". I only discovered you could pause and give orders after I was good enough to beat the entire game without pausing.

Pausing to redirect power to engines whenever there's an incoming shot is so loving stupid I started hating the entire game.

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