|
void bastards is really bouncing me which sucks because I like a lot of it... its just the enemies. They're all variations on 'floats around and shoots projectiles' with the kind of indepth AI we havn't seen the likes of since Doom.
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 07:23
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 13:12 |
|
|
Turin Turambar posted:I also didn't like the game. I liked the idea but not the execution. In practical terms in a stealth/fps game where both the stealth and the fps parts aren't very good. Immersive sim-wise, it's a far cry of a atmospheric experience like SS2 or Prey, too. Games like Cryptark had a more interesting and interactive ship systems integrated into gameplay. Yeah, they pointed to bioshock and system shock and... shocks in general as an inspiration but than you've got cockney children screaming 'I CAN SEE YOU, TWAT' and generally vacuuming out the tension necessary for thrills in a stealth game too.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 09:20
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:Of all the posts about Void Bastards, this is the one that makes me the most interested. All the enemies speak in hilarious cockney accents and are named after prison terms, juve, screw, ect. It has a pretty interesting if ineffective tone, it WOULD be very comedic but they don't really do anything but wander around and shoot you like the aforementioned doom enemies they vaguely look like when they see you so you're only treated to the same four dialogue lines each from them repeated ad nauseum, their 'found you' chirp and their 'shooting you' chirp. I guess it'd be deathly terrifying if you're afraid of chavs and teenagers. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jun 15, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 09:33
|
|
|
Somfin posted:I think the enemies suffer from a lack of animation- while it makes it super clear when they're in attack vs passive mode, there's not much that they seem to be actually doing. Tourists as ultra-sensitive whiny explosives that get in the way and will detonate if disturbed is kind of funny; random bureaucrats on combat spaceships makes a bit less sense, and the fact that all they seem to actually do is idle in passive mode before going into full-on kill mode if they detect you is kind of a headspace killer for a stealth game. Its almost strange they bothered making them look different since they all behave the same. For example, why wouldn't you have a mechanic where you knock over a bunch of crap on the floor to draw janitors to clean up the mess? Or setting out donuts to attract screws... something, yaknow?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 10:15
|
|
|
Alkydere posted:But they do act differently? Scribes will shoot and run away, which goads you into trying to chase them. The higher level ones will further punish chasing them (beyond the dangers inherent in potentially running into a Screw or later a Zec) by dropping mines. Janitors keep up the pressure. Juves hit and run and often alert other enemies while doing it. All thrilling combat behaviors from the golden age of early nineties shooters. Not so much for this game though.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 12:01
|
|
|
Serephina posted:It seems some have missed the entire allure of the game, which is not in depth fps shooting, but the survival-crawl-attrition feel of it. It's like complaining that the Ragdolls, armour systems, and weapon damage penetration values in traditional Roguelikes are just so antiquated and inadequate. lmao, thats my problem. It isn't an fps shooter, so why do the enemies behave like doom enemies? why is my options for avoiding conflict literally only 'run away and wait for them to forget I exist' than hope their literally random wandering give me an opportunity to slip by, Its like someone played resident evil and was like 'Yes, limited ammo is what makes these guys scary' and copied that without realizing that if the zombies could shoot you and threaten an area greater than arms reach than the whole dynamic is thrown off. Its no longer tension but action. Shock's enemies also were much less densely packed than void's which allowed for luls and peaks, knowing what you're getting going in and also having to constantly deal with enemies hamstrings the moments that shock could pull. My best 'system shock' moment was as a dumbass kid loving around in the science menu or something, I was low on everything after shooting up a robot and I'd mostly cleared the area I was in out, so it was silent and quiet. But when I closed the menu and turned around a previously perfectly silent Hybrid was standing RIGHT THERE and screams 'PLEASE, KILL ME' as he starts smashing me in the side of the head with a pipe and I made the girliest scream imaginable and nearly died before I managed to retrieve my wrench and grant his dying wish. You couldn't get a moment like this in void bastards because of the audio cues, the tonal dissonance, the enemy design... I can see what they were aiming at and it fails to meet it in every way. There will never be a time in Void Bastards where I turn around and am spooked by a cockney child screaming 'YA BASTARD'
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 12:40
|
|
|
Tollymain posted:i dont get the impression that was what they were aiming for, tbh well if it ain't than I don't get it, still though, it sparks no joy... which sucks, because I do like some of the ideas.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 12:57
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:slamming something by saying the enemies act like they're from doom is a bit weird when doom continues to be one of the most well-known videogames of all time and will continue being as such much longer than most of the games brought up in this thread due to a modding scene that's still thriving decades later dooms a very specific type of game though and its monsters, while working well in that context, I'm sure anyone would agree do not appear intelligent. Something I took on while listening to the developer commentary on half life one and two back when valve made games was 'Giving the appearance of intelligence' which is distinct from... being intelligent, but for example the HECU marines in half life one would occasionally, run away and break line of sight with the player while spouting off vaguely military sounding nonsense on the radio, or occasionally interrupt their bog standard 'shoot at the player' to do things like throw grenades or reposition themselves. This was HUGE at the time for shooters because before this monsters didn't really do much to give the impression they had any kind of survival instincts or thought process... monsters in for example doom just kinda shoot you and walk to a position in order to shoot you, they're unthinking obstacles. But the half life marines though not really much different seem very smart. The monsters in void bastards don't seem smart, they don't contextualize their presence with their actions, they behave very much like the 'monsters as obstacles' model which makes them feel ineffective and dumb which does not strike much of a tone. It works for doom because its not about the monsters being smart but being targets for you to skate around at a thousand miles per hour and shoot at. They're effective there but I personally don't feel they're effective here. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jun 15, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 15:21
|
|
|
Lunatic Sledge posted:the enemies in void bastards are basically obstacles, though no I get it actually and I guess on some level that's true but at the same time when I say 'effective' I probably also mean 'affective' in that... they're kinda boring? they're the same poo poo copypasted across every ship. I think they zigged when they needed to zag in terms of picking between fps and roguelike elements in this specific case because while some parts are roguelite its also an fps, its not like they couldn't be both yaknow. Plus making more interesting AI would never be a bad idea, I don't see why you couldn't smash a vase and the janitor comes and starts mopping and dosn't pay attention to you slipping away or why you couldn't shoot someone and cause them to flee to the medical bay to heal up.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 15:49
|
|
|
silentsnack posted:Yeah it's this. Enemies are either a drain on ammo+health resources if you fight them, or oxygen if you choose to find a sneaky way around (and risk running into an even worse situation) or you give up on that area and lose out on whatever loot you might have found. They aren't a gripping combat challenge but if you want actually sapient entities go get teabagged in some multiplayer shootmans fps. I don't think thats really a valid dismissal though, outlining the philosophy that made them boring dosn't make them less so.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 15:56
|
|
|
SKULL.GIF posted:No, I agree with this guy here, I really liked the presentation and the initial feel of the gameplay, but have had zero desire to give it another run after finishing a campaign on Normal. wait the layouts aren't randomly generated? holy moley.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 16:02
|
|
|
please make a roguelite spiritual sucessor to Paradroid tia
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2019 18:21
|
|
|
silentsnack posted:Just what Cogmind needed, a useless hologram sidekick. hey to be fair cogmind actually could benefit from having any kind of personality and direction
|
|
#
¿
Jun 21, 2019 19:09
|
|
|
eh, I wanted to like it I really did. The idea of a roguelike involving being the robot from that one episode of swat-kats just stealing limbs and assimilating them into your mass till you're a hideous centipede of guns and mangled robots sounds great on paper but than all the attempts to mitigate that simple premise just bleed the fun out of it. I perfer my fuckery unmitigated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuQGfk9Gmgo This would be my ideal Cogmind. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jun 21, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jun 21, 2019 19:47
|
|
|
Perhaps, it really bounced me hard which sucks because I tried hard to like it. It was little things, like one time I spotted a programmer robot, killed his rear end and stole his data spike and I was like 'I have it now, the key, that will help me 'make some friends' nyehehehe!' and so I toddled over, missed jacking a nearby passive robot, several times, finally got in and had a zero percent chance to hack, than a random guard shot my data-jack off before I had any opportunity to do a single cool thing with it. Repeat similar small tales of woe about a thousand times and you've basically got the gist. Or the time I found a drone-chute device type thing and I was like 'oh sick' so I popped out some drones to see how they do, in the course of figuring out what I could do with them I told them to explore and stuff and I was just getting to grips with the fun things I might be able to do with it when they got shot and killed in short order so I was like 'Ah right they're really fragile and unarmed, surely the device creates more'. But no. It dosn't. They were just two drones in a box that I 'wasted', not that they had really any great utility to begin with. All those cool ideas I had like mounting some of the guns around to them, very on brand with my cog-self, weren't options... Someone went to all the trouble of making drones and thought 'yeah, they explore for you, fuckin' sick!' and its just like... ok. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jun 21, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jun 21, 2019 21:18
|
|
|
Mister No posted:My current dream roguelike is Cogmind's systems crossed with ToME4's massive waves of popcorn enemies. I'd kinda love something like it but with a more open worldy caves of qud style of deal based vaguely on metalhearts or whatever that one TTRPG system where its the world, post humanity, but robots are still out running automated in the wake of a huge AI driven nuke war. You play as a virus so you're not limited to one body and you can basically lego yourself new robots with whatever parts you can secure since everything you 'infect' is a piece of you. Games over when all your cores are toasted, the more you infect the more hunted you are by the various 'god' AIs who prosecuted the war. Start out taking over the minds of amazon drones and street roombas and ultimately find yourself piloting cataclysm style multi tile killdozers and the spider tanks from ghost in the shell. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jun 22, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2019 01:54
|
|
|
Elona and Cataclysm's child would be the anti-christ and have to be destroyed.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2019 08:51
|
|
|
Mithross posted:and yet I would still play that fucker. I would play it until I died from not eating food because I was lost in the magical fairy land of grinding for 80 hours to build a tank out of two unicorns, half a black dragon, and four semi trucks. Its not my fault, if in gods plan, he made the devil so much stronger than a maaaaaaan!! Yeah probably same, degrading all my stuff into meat so I can eat it to stave off hunger
|
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2019 09:50
|
|
|
My ideal roguelikes are generally the ones where your list of options in a given scenario looks a little like: You meet a dark knight on the road! Do you:
|
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2019 11:04
|
|
|
A Strange Aeon posted:This would be awesome but seems more like tabletop options a GM could administer than a real video game. There are games that have what I want though, like dwarf fortress. Its story potential that gets me, like the essence of it is being able to swivel your chair around and explain to someone who has never played a roguelike in their life and having your story be instantly graspable and hilarious, in fact even more hilarious because to you its just little tiles sliding around on ascii land but to them its a vivid tale of a dude who during a barfight in a haunted, Transylvanian pub caused by him walking in and accusing every single person in the room including a stray dog of being a vampire he gets his teeth punched out, than those same teeth come to life and after biting off several parts of his face he finally succumbs to having his jugular torn out by his own possessed teeth. Real thing that could happen in dwarf fortress. Story potential! Some roguelikes have it and some don't, cataclysm for instance lacks the same punch and yet has similar simulationist qualities. The most interesting story I could weave out of cataclysm is 'Oh yes, I was a swamp ninja, I spent my days making flour from the cat-tails and eating the disgusting, starchy bread and studying the blade. I would drive around in my terrifying death cube that had at one point been an RV before I had welded more than three separate tanks to it raiding labs for cybernetics to further augment my ninjutsu' mostly cuz cataclysm lacks the madness minituae that really gives it story potential and the day to day activities of your dude are mostly 'looting and reading and eating garbage' invariably
|
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2019 16:33
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:it's probably not a fair comparison to say it's bad that a game isn't more like dwarf fortress when df has been worked on for decades by a single, very obsessive person who has focused specifically on that one thing you want in other games I didn't say that, just talkin' bout what I like  Cataclysm is bad for a ton of mostly meta reasons anyhow :V Angry Diplomat posted:Motherfucker have you played Streets of Rogue? I legitimately think you might enjoy Streets of Rogue. I have not, I'll check it out. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jun 22, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2019 16:45
|
|
|
A Strange Aeon posted:I love story potential too--reading the hundreds of weird and wild tabletop settings and sourcebooks that have been blooming from the OSR makes me sad I don't have a group who is into the same level of strange that I am. I get a thrill reading the entries on a random encounter table for sure. Dwarf fortress is ALL story potential, the actual moment to moment gameplay isn't great.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2019 17:22
|
|
|
I picked up streets of rogue and its reminding me of the games I used to play on my school laptop instead of doing any actual work, survival crisis Z and zombie smashers and the like, its nostalgic and fun as gently caress.Tollymain posted:have they tightened up the controls As far as I can attest it plays like a dream, more like an arcade game or something you just kinda zoom around and click to punch. was it not always like that or?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 23, 2019 08:41
|
|
|
"Goofy nonsense??" the wizard haughtily scoffed as he hovered six inches off the ground and drew the six form prism with his twelve long, inhumanly dexterous fingers before raising it to his forehead and focusing his energies through his third eye, instantly obliterating us both.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 23, 2019 14:04
|
|
|
I bought streets of rogue and it whips rear end, although there's more work to be done I feel.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 2, 2019 06:06
|
|
|
Oh cool klei making a roguelike I wonder what its... oh... cards...
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2019 09:13
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:Hey, have some faith, Don't Starve began its life as "just another early access survival crafting game". We're roguelike players, we should know better than most that it's not about doing something new, it's about doing something well. Any card roguelike is an instant no from me, dawg. We spent all this time perfecting spatial simulation and these people wanna drag us into 'a world that is like a ttrpg but without the flexibility or friends'
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2019 07:48
|
|
|
don't you take that de-saturated tone with me!! You know what I mean!
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2019 08:13
|
|
|
Perhaps, I mean often your choices ARE actually pretty limited about what to do in any circumstance but a video game poker dealer throwing my entire list of options in a dickless pile in front of me takes me right out of it. Even in zork I can type swear words in the box if I want.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2019 08:34
|
|
|
Once you pick up a card though, virtual or otherwise, your brain melts and you mutter 'throwbacks to the classics...' like a zombie while you make zero percent use of 'video game' as a medium.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2019 08:45
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:Cards are just a UI thing though. Saying you won't play a game because of it is like saying you won't play dungeonmans because it isn't in ascii. thats a legit thing to say though! UI is important.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2019 09:17
|
|
|
Goddamn I really love demon, its honestly the pokemon game I never knew I wanted.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2019 04:13
|
|
|
Nanpa posted:In practice however the enemies are readable and distinct while moving at ludicrous speed hard disagree on this, they look like poo poo and the environments are cluttered to the max. My friend immediately said 'Yaknow they should've just taken half the poo poo out of the environment.' Gun construction owns but you can feel its potential getting choke chained for balance reasons as well which is never a good look. Challenge is nice but games are for the players entertainment, not the npcs, not every enemy needs to have a chance, sometimes its more fun if they just get mown the gently caress down.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2019 05:32
|
|
|
That could work, although I'd have 'tweak-o-mats' that let you swap around / attach any parts you pick up on a mission for an exponential cost based on how much loving around you actually do in terms of changes (to discourage you from doing more than one or two things at a individual tweak station, but still allow it if your best layed plans aren't panning out) Than I'd have the mission screen just be a rotating swarm of ships, some scale to your 'firepower' some are linear with a minimum and / or maximum firepower limit All the ships rotate when you die or vanish when destroyed by you.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2019 10:45
|
|
|
Anyone know where to get some pointers for that Demon game? I keep coming back to it but I wanna get more out of it.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2019 14:17
|
|
|
Its not ME making hot takes its actually YOU!!!
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2019 15:34
|
|
|
I'd play the balls out of a legend of grimrock-esque randomly generated first person roguelike.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2019 17:15
|
|
|
szary posted:There's Dungeon Hack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab1ZIyLGKKA Agree'd and agree'd but a more traditional 'step by step' roguelike with a different UI that uses the same first person perspective, slick 'realistic' graphics and organic 'click on stuff to interact with it in the environment' would be sick. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jul 29, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2019 18:34
|
|
|
FuzzySlippers posted:I coded one up that I thought was decent. The traditional turn based step roguelike works pretty well in 3d but only if you have super quick animations so 'realistic' graphics are a bad idea. Better for high rez sprites with low animation frames. That way when you take your turn everything else can zip through their turns really quick and it feels real time. If everything has to play proper animations it'll drag the speed down and it feels weird. Hmm. Thats an interesting point, I guess you could probably make some kind've system where only the most 'pertinant' animations, stuff like you getting attacked or shot, the first time a monster steps into view, that kind've stuff, play and the rest are phoned in cut down versions going much faster or executed simultaneously. Alternatively: Just make everyone minis who move around like chess pieces and change poses with a puff of smoke occasionally. LordSloth posted:Hot take: I think that aesthetically, Risk of Rain 2 looks like poo poo Same. But I go a step further and just say Risk of Rain 2 is... poo poo? Actually thats not fair, its pretty good but the problem is it gets old very very fast. A lot more attention was paid to translating their, not all that interesting, aesthetic and gameplay from 2d to 3d without embracing their new medium to its fullest. Plus all the games play out exactly the same with no really 'transformative' item picks or anything to delineate one run from another. Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jul 31, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2019 04:27
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 13:12 |
|
|
I tell you what shits me in all games but roguelikes especially? Enemies that do things to gently caress over the player that no living being would ever ever ever do. Like a rocket launcher wielding enemy blowing you and themselves the gently caress up. Because I wouldn't, right? I would back up than fire. But because they're not real, they don't have to behave like a real living person even if they apparently are an intelligent being, like a solider or whatever. Its galling on so many levels but once you mix in the ol' permadeath that sort of poo poo needs to gently caress right off for eternity, take your grenade parade and shove it up your loving cloaca.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 2, 2019 12:28
|
|