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What's the consensus on Don't Starve? Does that count as a roguelike?
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Aug 7, 2013 01:05
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Wow, Chasms aesthetic is really really neat. I hope it's a great game.
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Dec 2, 2013 05:39
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victrix posted:Rather than obfuscated game mechanics or true hidden 'gotchas', I think a broad and deep pool of gameplay possibilities is just a better way to design games period, roguelikes included. And I don't strictly mean 'more' - games that have interesting encounter permutations from a handful of well designed enemies/weapons/tools/levels often have very long legs indeed. Have you played Hydra Slayer?
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Dec 18, 2013 05:18
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Space Bat posted:Aren't short levels broken? At least a few months ago they were, because the small levels didn't compensate for loot and there was just an XP multiplier so you could end up really underleveled and undergeared. I think this might be a crafting thing or something? On a non-crafting character, I cleared Going Rogue/Permadeath/No Time to Grind/Realm of the Diggle Gods easily enough, even though you'd think any problems with less gains per level would be exacerbated in a 15 floor game. And even NttG is pretty drat long so I can't really recommend playing the game without it. But yes, speeding up animations is a must.
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Jan 5, 2014 03:20
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Gosh, Nuclear Throne is fun. Especially Chicken.
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Apr 27, 2014 19:45
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willus posted:Crypt of the necrodancer crashes after the first load screen, and I'm already hooked by the music Try deleting all of your custom music (clearing out the folder except for beatdown.exe), put in ONLY the 10 songs you want, run beatdown.exe without starting Necrodancer. That worked for me.
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Aug 2, 2014 00:13
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Anyone else run in to this?
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Hey Necrodancer folks, how do you deal with Goblins when you only have a dagger? I hate taking the multiplier penalty for standing in place but I don't really see any other way to fight Goblins.
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Aug 2, 2014 16:10
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Skeewiff is my go-to for Necrodancer. I could probably do all Skeewiff if I wanted but I like to mix it up. I have 1-1 as Nitty Gritty because it starts a bit slow which is nice to warm up and then I follow it up with I Got Soul.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:03
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And the Invisible Inc. (fka Incognita) Early Access is dropping Tuesday. I was in the alpha and they stopped alpha patches just as it was getting pretty darn good to put new stuff in and launch the official Early Access. It's a stealth-based mostly-roguelike (X-COM like, let's say).
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Aug 17, 2014 01:04
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Invisible Inc. is incredible. It's progressed so much from the alpha days and is worth your early access dollars right the heck now. Better than Necrodancer.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:23
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Ciaphas posted:The Steam thread didn't think it was worth cash yet, but the aesthetic looks rad as hell, not to mention the gameplay. There are a few annoying glitches (mostly UI/information communication, a few gameplay ones), but they're quite minor and the full play experience is already there.
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Aug 24, 2014 01:02
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Here's a question for the roguelike developers in here. I have a bit of a weird relationship with programming. I code a little bit for my job but not much, with my coding experience being just a few toy projects in a handful of weird languages (QBASIC as a kid, R in college, Cache for work). But I have a degree in Math and in general am comfortable "thinking programmatically". I have an idea for a roguelike that's really starting to impress itself upon me. I want to code up a toy minigame with a couple of its simplest mechanics to see how they hold up. (Without going on a big rant about it, I want to replace the standard roguelike bump n' grind with one on one or one on few fights where you have to alternate between variable speed/effect attacks, defense, and dodging. When you see your opponent, you see ranges for all of their stats that get more precise as you learn about them and fight them - you need to act on this information to win.) In the current implementation, it'd mostly just be a menu simulator, but if it works out I'd like to be able to build it into a full game. So - for someone coming in to programming with little formal experience but with the ability to learn fast, without any major preconceptions, what programming language should I look in to? The more newbie friendly the IDE, the better.
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Sep 2, 2014 02:33
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Unormal posted:There's a bunch of possibilities. Really it just comes down to personal preference. Here's a rundown of a few: Thanks a ton for all of this, it really helped. Pygame seems a decent first option because my friend is telling me that Python is the way to go, but I clicked that Unity 3d link and happened to read a very sensible article about integrating things from the Asset store if they're outside your wheelhouse; and something tells me it might work for me to deal with the high learning curve if I can pay a little bit to have things like player preferences handled for me. Will have to think about it.
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Sep 2, 2014 13:31
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:you didn't really miss much, the boss is basically a crapshoot and whether or not you'll be able to kill it is entirely dependent on whether or not you stocked up on enough nuke projectiles or some poo poo. either that or use a couple of specific skills that you might not have taken the trees for. Magical Law really owns the boss. Actually Magical Law in general is just full of bonkers-good spells, but among the many things it does well is let you trivialize the boss. With Writ of Counterspelling and a Mirror Shield you reflect almost all attack spells (all spells if you have any more reflect like Ancestral Body Paint). Then with Rune of Objection, you throw the acid debuff or vortex debuff back at him. If memory serves the only spell he actually has that can hit you through this is the voltaic one, so just pack a ton of that resist and engage him with water or some open-air obstacle between him and you. As far as Dredmor goes: I think it did a very excellent part in helping to spark off the Roguelike Renaissance. Is it still worth playing today? Kind of. I think it's got enough game in it for people to try to beat it once on NTTG with highly sped up animations. Having beaten the game on 15 floor going rogue permadeath, I don't think I'll pick up Dredmor again aside from showing it to friends or streaming it or some such. It's an excellent starter roguelike though, not just because of the friendly graphics and such but because it gives you the first skill from each tree right when you start! That's seven honking skills your character starts with. It's something I think more roguelikes would do well to emulate, it's wonderful to start with a character feeling like you've had a lot of personal choice invested in it already.
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Sep 6, 2014 06:10
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Sproggiwood is pretty cool. Sure it's on the easy side at least so far, but polish is something dismally rare to the roguelike genre so it's nice. Any chance of multiple file support? (Or some way to have multiple files I'm missing?) This is definitely the roguelike I'd use to explain the genre to friends who have never played before, and it'd be nice to give them their own file. Between-game progression is sort of a thing to benefit newcomers at the expense of purity of experience for veterans, but it's a bit hard to reap the reward side of that equation with only one file.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:17
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Finally beat Nuclear Throne! It is a hard game but man it's fun. I think the definitive factor that let me beat it was Plutonium Hunger - I didn't realize it, but having the ammo and especially the health go to you automatically (I'm sure I took over 20 damage this run) really helps you get in the state of flow needed to keep yourself alive. My weapons for most of it were the Laser Minigun and Super Slugger.
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Oct 26, 2014 15:23
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Pladdicus posted:Wish you best of luck with it! Out of my price range right now, so I'll let you know how it is around christmas sale What's your steam name?
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Oct 26, 2014 18:24
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IronicDongz posted:A lot of the time I see people new to the game hit a roadblock because they're afraid to take the powerful weapons which consume a lot of ammo. You basically need to use those later on, you can't roll with sluggers/crossbows/assault rifles forever or you just won't have enough killing power. Gotta grab miniguns and super sluggers and stuff like that. As a corollary to this, Plutonium Hunger is probably the single best mutation in the game because it lets you just focus on dodging (which you need to be) and will attract the ammo to you.
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Nov 19, 2014 17:25
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Well, Sil gets a lot of love here, if not Angband proper. Angband was my first roguelike and I'll always love it for that but design wise it is just a bit of a mess. Fundamentally the food and light clocks just don't matter and it makes the whole game a weird, grindy experience. EDIT: Although as far as Angband vs. Nethack is concerned it's not like Nethack isn't even more of a mess. But I don't see it mentioned here that often either.
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Nov 24, 2014 06:19
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Does Nuclear Throne have its own thread yet? Now that there's the daily challenges it's probably worth having one if not.
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Dec 20, 2014 03:18
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dis astranagant posted:The Eigenrifle is a pinpoint accurate (literally no spread beyond your shaky hands) line AOE laser rifle and it's brutally powerful. That is one of the best weapon names I've ever seen in a game.
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Jan 13, 2015 03:37
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Obligatory plug to PF's Twitter where he points out goofy crawl code. Highlights include "if (random2(3) == 0) ghost.ghs [0] += random2(50) + random2(50); /* hp - could be defined below (as could ev, AC etc). Oh well, too late */" and the beautifully elegant "if do_grammar == false".
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Jan 14, 2015 14:30
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Angry Diplomat posted:One interesting solution to this could be to put in permanent loot, but have it be a one-at-a-time thing - you can only carry one Item (single-use treasure, consumed when it's activated) and one piece of Gear (provides a passive benefit or trade-off while held) at a time, and picking up a new one automatically discards the old one. Let players squabble among themselves over who gets the Reinforced Helmet, but don't waste time on inventory management. That's time better spent on infighting when someone grabs the thing for themselves! Really the problem in those games is mostly the Diablo-esque point salad randarts that take forever to look at; having skills/gear that don't change would actually better. I think using the Transistor system for a game like that could be neat, particularly if you don't allow re-speccing. You can use that new powerup as a skill or use it to buff a previously existing one - but when your skill has two buffs on it, you'll lose a lot more if you overwrite it.
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Jan 18, 2015 19:54
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Mr. Wednesday posted:There was a study I read, though annoyingly I can't find it at the moment, where players were asked to rate the AI in a FPS game. One AI was rated much higher than the other - the difference between them was that the agent of the highly-rated AI had significantly more HP than the other one. There was no difference in the actual behavior, but the perceived difference in intelligence was quite large. This is a great example of the conflicting goals that often come up between game designers and game players. Game players think they want to play against 'intelligent' opponents, but in reality they often don't, check out Smart Kobolds for a case study in this, as others have pointed out. What they really want is the illusion of intelligent AI. I'd go on about the implications for game developers but I'm a bit too drunk to pull that off at the moment Another great example of this, although it's not AI specifically, is Hydra Slayer. It's a good example of how you ACTUALLY want heuristic-driven combat where you feel "intelligent" by going down the heuristic tree, not actual, pure, brainmelting tactical combat. Which is not to say that Hydra Slayer is bad - it's super interesting and fun in small doses. But it sure makes the point that you don't want a game that's smarter than you! (To the point when there's literally an item to tell you "how do I optimally kill each enemy in sight" as a powerup.)
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Apr 4, 2015 05:13
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I'm planning on doing an Invisible Inc. LP sometime soon (I played a lot of EA so I'm pretty good at it!); having that thread would be a fun place to drop it.
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May 15, 2015 05:36
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Invisible Inc. LP question. On your first playthrough you have to use the starter character / programs. Would you rather watch an LP with starter loadout (more immediately relevant) or nonstarter (so your first game feels fresh)? I like starter loadout a lot so I don't mind playing it again.
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May 15, 2015 14:05
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LawfulWaffle posted:You could do a beginner run with the basic loadout to show how everything works together, then play of Expert or Expert Plus and show off how much the difficulty is increased. That way viewers will better understand what it is you're doing and trying to do once things start going tits-up. I tried a Experienced run with Shalom 11 and Banks, but I kept splitting the party and on the third mission I stepped into a few failure spirals that ate my rewinds. Good game, and I enjoy getting new agents and equipment even when I lose. Shalem 11 is awesome. I think I'll do an Expert run with the basic loadout and then E+ with a strange one.
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May 16, 2015 04:28
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Well I'll repost it if a formal thread gets made, but here's the first video of my Invisible Inc. LP.
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May 16, 2015 21:57
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If I could sit around a table with 3 friends and play solium infernum I would never do anything else
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Jul 1, 2015 00:04
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Just picked up Renowned Explorers and I'm really enjoying it, seems like the first FTL clone to actually understand the pros and cons of FTL and actively improve on it. Only a few hours in so far but already dig it a lot. It has some polish/communication issues but what day-one indie game doesn't.
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Sep 3, 2015 04:54
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Quiet Python posted:Has anyone been playing "Renowned Explorers - International Society"? I've tried assembling a couple of teams, but find that I'm out of my depth once I unlock the 4-star expeditions. I actually just started a Renowned Explorers LP. I think I did a good job talking out strategy (but obviously I'm biased). Although YT processing is going slow so probably wait a couple of hours before watching it because it's only in 360p at the moment and not glorious 1080/60.
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Sep 20, 2015 07:12
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:Ok I've finally admitted it to myself: Nethack, Angband, ADOM. The three venerable titans we all have to sadly admit are pretty bad games. But be nice to them anyway because they paved the way for so much. It's crazy to think now niche roguelikes were even five years ago compared to now.
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Dec 15, 2015 01:03
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I'll do a list as well. 10.) Ironcast It's a roguelike where giant mechs fight each other by doing a bejweled style puzzle. It's insane. It has a lot of design flaws, but the core mechanic is just so solid that I play it anyway. This sounds like a damning by faint praise review, but trust me - I am REALLY unforgiving of small design flaws, so for me to play Ironcast means that it must be really fun. 9.) Vagante Hesitant to include this one because it's still quite early access-y. But it's like a Spelunky RPG. Okay, there are a lot of games that are trying to be like this (Catacomb Kids anyone), but I think Vagante will be the best one. It's already really fun. Give it a go. 8.) FTL: Faster Than Light I remember kickstarting FTL when kickstarter was a really new thing. I was so excited - a modern roguelike, and it's in a gosh dang space ship. It's easy to forget that this entire subgenre of top-down crew games was basically conjured up by FTL. Even if it's showing its age in the pretty dull overmap and overeliance on "a thing happened" RNG, the core scrap economy is extremely well done, and it's a great game to demonstrate how to have advanced tactics available without making the basic game hard to play. 7.) TOME 4 Darkgod is an machine. (He is also a very cool person in real life. I split a pizza with him at IRDC 2012.) TOME 4 is just so much game. It has some pacing issues with the random enemies, but the multiple lives mechanic does a lot to dull the edge of it. This is a great game to get people who love the Diablo, Torchlight esque loot treadmill games on to some proper fare. 6.) Spelunky Like FTL, one of the New Old Ones that define the current roguelike canon. Listen, I don't need to tell you about Spelunky, do I? I played it a ton back when it was a dinky little free game for PC only that you had to play with a keyboard, and it was amazing even then. It was the very first to take the roguelike idea of "you will die a lot, but it will (almost) always be fair" and map it to the physical experience of platforming. It's really hard to imagine the idea that an arrow trap would trick you more than once, then you play Spelunky and learn something profound about the human mind. The HD remaster made it even better. Okay, maybe the strategic component is pretty weak. Who cares, play Spelunky. 5.) Hydra Slayer Most games, consumables are a panic button - you try to set up a rhythm without using them, and they come in to re-normalize you when something out of the norm happens. Use of consumables IS the game of Hydra Slayer. The core strategic decision - which sort of weapons should I carry? - will physically give you a headache trying to figure it out. In terms of tactical combat, it's probably the richest fare in all of gaming. You can really only play Hydra Slayer in short bursts, but it's very instructive to anyone interested in game design. People will say they want very smart combat, but when you play Hydra Slayer, you realize: you only want combat as smart as you, and you are not that smart. There is a power-up in this game that does nothing but tell you the best combination to use your weapons to kill everything on-screen. I write that poo poo down without shame. That's Hydra Slayer in a nutshell. 4.) Renowned Explorers: International Society First game that borrowed from FTL and managed to substantially improve it. The strategy layer is very crunchy, and the tactical layer has a really interesting rhythm to it. I think the economy and research aspects are still a little bit out of balance, but it's a new game by indie devs and those are easy things to change. The squadmates feel substantially different, and it walks a fine line of being a story generator while still having game to it. It has an expansion coming out and I can't wait. I hope every game learns from Renowned Explorer's overmap. 3.) Invisible Inc. Invisible Inc. handles tactical risk-reward probably better than every other roguelike. It's very often NOT possible to get every safe on the level. So how many can you get? Do you buy some ammo to help out RIGHT NOW, or can you save your money and try to hit a nano-fab next? The core of the game is remarkably continuous. Credits have the same tight design as FTL's scrap, but the push your luck nature of GETTING creds is what makes this game such a winner. 2.) Nuclear Throne Proof that a few big decisions (characters, weapons, mutations, crowns) will do a lot more to make a game feel deep than a lot of little ones. Each character is outrageously different. No two weapons feel like stat-changed versions of other weapons. But the real star of the show is how much each mutation changes up your game. This is just a game that feels good to play, as well as being respectfully short (loop shenanigans aside). Nuclear Throne very clearly loves you, even if it doesn't know how to express its love properly and sends those lozenge looking energy dogs at you instead. You should love it back. 1.) Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup The one true king. Everyone else has already said so much about why this is the best game of all time. I will just add that it is one of the few games with an official, public development philosophy. The fact that this philosophy is so correct about what a good roguelike is, and is executed so well, is what makes Crawl so great. And it gets better every release. Honorable mentions: Towerclimb might be on my list if I could get my controller to work with it. But Towerclimb with a keyboard sucks balls. Brogue and Sil have incredibly tight designs and in theory are exactly what I'm after. I feel active shame that I don't have fun when I play them. I hope one day they will draw me in, but right now, they just don't, so I can't put them on the list. Like many people, I played a lot of Dungeons of Dredmor (141 hours logged!) but don't think I'd play it anymore. It still has one of the best level 1 experiences of any roguelike, though, and it helped normalize that roguelikes are a thing you can do for a living instead of on the side. XCOM: Enemy Unknown is a very good game that is almost as much of a roguelike as Invisible Inc. The script is just a little too fixed for me to want it on the list. I suspect that XCOM 2 will make this list, though, and in a very high position. angband was my first major roguelike, but infinite grind just ruins the design beyond redemption for me. Sorry, angband. I'll never forget what you did for me~ I'm pretty liberal with my definition of roguelike, but some very fun games I won't call roguelikes are: Risk of Rain, Rogue Legacy, Super House of Dead Ninjas.
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Dec 22, 2015 01:19
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Prism posted:Can you explain Hydra Slayer? What makes it so complex? I'm not asking for a walkthrough or anything, just 'what kind of things are you juggling here', as I haven't heard of that one at all. in a nutshell: Hydrae have a certain number of heads. You will have a weapon that cuts off a certain number of heads. If you cut off exactly as many heads as it has, it dies. If you cut off fewer, then it regains heads depending on the type of weapon you cut it with and the type of hydra it is. But what makes it really interesting is that you CAN'T use a weapon that cuts off more heads than the hydra has. So it's a very interesting puzzle. Sometimes you literally can't kill a hydra without using a consumable. Sometimes you can, but only by using a weapon that doesn't cut off as many heads as it regrows, so the hydra gains more heads and you can use a different weapon. And the stakes get higher as the game goes on and you get weapons that e.g, divide the heads by three. Which is fantastically powerful, but only if it's a multiple of three to begin with. Now what happens if you transmute it to be a different element, so it will be divided by three then add a number of heads such that it's a multiple of three again...? Sage Grimm posted:
Yeah, it's not really a stick thing. It's item jumping and item management in general. Also it cramps your hands pretty quick. It just feels like maneuvering on a keyboard is a lot harder than with a controller.
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Dec 22, 2015 01:40
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Not too sure how a controller helps in this game where movement is basically digital. Maybe the item shortcuts? Or item jumping?
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Unormal posted:You're a good and powerful human Jordan. Yeah, the list is cool. You're doing it in a very interesting way even though it's probably more time consuming for you. Thanks a lot! (Want Renowned Explorers? :3)
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Dec 30, 2015 00:46
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You know, playing Renowned Explorers has me thinking that there's really room in the world for a squad-based automata roguelike where your loot is increasingly detailed programming. It's something I'm tempted to try to whip up a prototype of. But I don't really know much about automata games. Anyone know of good games where you need to program units? I'm thinking something like Legend of Mana's golems, only uhh, not quite as terrible.
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Jan 1, 2016 17:42
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Highblood posted:So how many roguelike devs aren't on SA I asked a similar question some time ago and Unormal gave me a very helpful answer: Unormal posted:There's a bunch of possibilities. Really it just comes down to personal preference. Here's a rundown of a few: Actually I was looking for this anyway. My design notes for an FTL-esque squad based game with programming combat are getting interesting enough that I want to try to prototype it. hito fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 00:42
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:It always bugs me when players talk about worrying about missing something in a game with an infinite amount of content. Like, why would you bother to kill everything in a zone in Diablo II when you can regenerate zones infinitely? I haven't yet played Dungeonmans (my backlog is a little worrying, honestly), but I'm guessing it has more than enough stuff to let you meet the power curve in any given game. The trick is to make the food clock something other than a strictly deterministic number. Invisible Inc. has a fantastic food clock because high alarm level doesn't mean instant death at time X, it just gets harder and harder. It's strictly optimal to be "obsessive about eking out exploration out of what time you have"; so just make it a game in itself. If you tell me "If you open 50 chests the Chestbeast will eat you", I'm gonna open 49 chests because I wanna win the video game. If you tell me "The Chestbeast gains strength with every chest you open!" then figuring out how many chests I can open starts to look suspiciously like fun gameplay.
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Mar 7, 2016 05:30
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I don't think snaking is the right Mario Kart analogy either. More like "every minute you hold down the Z button before a race makes your kart 10% faster this Grand Prix" but the scoreboard doesn't mention how much Z buttoning anyone did. The vast majority of games can be trivially beaten by some combination of learning spoilers, precisely memorizing/working on executing a sequence (bullet hells, most platformers), and grinding (defined as some low/no risk action that makes your avatar stronger without a functional upper bound). The neat thing about most well-designed roguelikes is that none of these are true. Beating a roguelike is actually a well-defined challenge that requires an unavoidable amount of system mastery. For those of us who play for mastery, this is a really neat thing! "Well, gosh, just don't play it that way" is an annoying argument, because a lot of time the grinding elements are just a matter of degree. So now I have to figure out what the line is for a "satisfying" game experience. That shouldn't be my job - that should be the job of the game designer. I think the analogy that should enter common parlance is going to the gym. Many people go to the gym to lift the weights over their head twenty times, and they can put whatever poundage they want on it to make sure it gets over their head. Sure, have fun. But some of us want the experience of a designer saying "I certifying that lifting 300 pounds is an attainable goal, even if it's gonna be hard" and then working ourselves to be able to lift 300 pounds. Now suppose there's a balloon attached to the weight. As it inflates, the weight gets lighter. If I only have a minute to pump the balloon, I'm going to become a master at pumping the balloon - because that's part of the challenge and factored in to the 300 pounds. Now I have two skills I need to combine to lift the weight. But if I just have a single balloon that gradually inflates over time, the experience is shot. You can't say "well, just don't focus on inflating your balloon" because very often some measure of balloon inflating is inevitable (experience, loot) So when I lose, I have no real feedback - I could have won by playing better, but I also could have won by waiting for my balloon to inflate a bit more. And end game achievements for games rarely adjust for how much grinding you did on your avatar, so I can't even be proud when I lift the 300 pounds, because I very rarely have solid feedback about how much or little my balloon was inflated. Unless it's a system I can disengage with entirely (e.g a No Items run) then I'm always going to have the unsatisfying experience of lifting the weight and not knowing how much was me getting stronger and how much was the balloon. I want to know that lifting that 300 pound weight really means something - that my strength, and my skills at inflating the balloon under time pressure, have reached a certain level. Okay, that analogy got a little strained, but I think it's needed. Without the balloon, it's easy to say "Why does it matter if people can put on as light of weights as they want - you can just use the heavy ones yourself". But that only works if the weights are well-defined, static, and I have a clear and meaningful goal. Most genres don't provide this. But well-designed roguelikes very often do. When I say "I 15-runed in Crawl", it means something. It was a goal I had to strain to reach and I had no shortcuts available to me. You know that I didn't just read the Gamefaqs guide, or camp the rat spawn, or just practice the boss fights until I could do them in my sleep. I 15-runed the only way you can ever 15 rune - I got as good as I needed to get against a game that offered me no easy way out. I don't think you need to be a HOM to appreciate that.
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Mar 8, 2016 04:52
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The thing is there's no clear line between "grinding" and playing normally. If you play a game where you can get significant advantages by playing under-challenging content you can easily end up doing that without ever consciously deciding to, and having to constantly ask "did the devs make a sensible difficulty curve or am I getting out of sync" sucks. It takes up attention that could be applied to more interesting tasks/challenges. This is a very good post and everyone should read it. If this was reddit I would gild it, but since this is SA, do you want Renowned Explorers
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Mar 9, 2016 00:07
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