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And outside of setting, Zelda has very, very little in common with what would be considered a traditional RPG of the era. Even the things it does have in common are kind of debatable (do heart containers count as leveling up? etc).
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Dec 7, 2014 04:50
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I would think "getting stronger as you progress" is a better defining element of an rpg than "literally has a number that goes up". It's a defining element, yeah, though stuff like Alter Beast and Resident Evil are great RPGs if we're rolling off that metric. Zelda also lacks a party system, turn based combat, or pretty much any of the other things that would define an RPG of the time, or barely even define an RPG now, save the setting and the perspective of the gameplay. (Edit: You don't even necessarily get stronger as you progress in Zelda; you could beat all the dungeons and never get better than the wooden sword, accidentally). Defining all the specifics of a genre, any genre, is kind of difficult. Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 05:24
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victrix posted:It's very much worth the Dungeonma'ams
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Dec 26, 2014 01:47
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, get your dungeonmans or womans on
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metaprogression done well can also provide incentive to play new, weird ways, like character-specific unlocks in Isaac like, it would be hard to get me to play anyone but Cain if I didn't have to to get some cool stuff
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Sep 20, 2018 02:11
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goferchan posted:Wait "makes you smaller" pills don't change your hotbox? I'm curious about this, because the wiki / every reddit post / steam discussion I've seen suggests your hitbox does change when you shrink, regardless of the source the hitbox just doesn't get bigger
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May 15, 2019 03:00
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i knew it never got BIGGER than the default but wtf lol
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all the talk about void bastards made me buy void bastards, even though I don't normally like first person shooters would like to confirm, game rules my favorite ship so far was a ship a.) with a modifier that makes smoke more frequent, and by more frequent I mean everywhere b.) featuring a shedload of tourists my butthole was so tight it could have formed a singularity, I was firing blind shots into the aether and setting off thirty explosions at a time
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Jun 8, 2019 14:10
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flak kittens were a hilarious mistake
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Jun 9, 2019 10:35
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I beat Void Bastards; I agree that the ending is kind of... abrupt? I expected one last big fuckening with the pirates, but my adventure for the last part was kind of uneventful. I'm thinking maybe there should have been a pre-made finale ship or something, bookend with the tutorial a bit in the steam discussions, though, the developers did say they're moving onto "longer term support for the game" after they get some bugs / issues hammered out, so here's to hoping for more enemies / ship variety / etc. It is a very solid game with a very absorbing loop, though it does start to wear towards the back half--after some initial troubles dealing with zecs and patients, I don't think I had too many surprises well, no BIG surprises, the first ship I boarded after seeing the ending had a feature I'd never seen before (I imagine this is a coincidence)  it would cycle through a bunch of random screens, mostly pertaining to sharing info with your cat who looks perfectly normal and is not a robot, it got a low key chuckle out of me
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Jun 11, 2019 08:40
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you can also kind of get that vibe from enemies yelling about you missing appointments or whatever, they've all lost their poo poo also random bureaucrats on a combat ship makes perfect sense in the context of the setting, where bureaucracy has a stranglehold on everything
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Jun 15, 2019 11:56
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the enemies in void bastards are basically obstacles, though they're ostensibly lock-and-key routines, where you don't want to deal with x enemy without y or z weapon (like the zapper or toxic gun for spooks, or the rad gun or bouncer for zecs) it's not really about the complex behavior of the monsters, it's about putting a drain on target resources that forces you to make decisions vis a vis which ships you'll plunder next, how long you'll stay in a ship desperately digging for ammo, how hard you're willing to make it on yourself to conserve (and consequently whether you're willing to trade ammo for health), and other roguelite numbers management business I don't think they're meant to be complex moment-to-moment puzzles or tests of your FPS skills, they--like the fuel and food costs--are just another element vying for one of the dozen resources you're trying to juggle (the way BoI has you monitoring keys/bombs/health/item charges/one use items and Gungeon has you monitoring ammo/keys/health/blanks/money etc etc) it's less an FPS design and more a roguelite design, I'm not sure I'm explaining it well though
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Jun 15, 2019 15:40
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I do agree the game needs more variety, I know the devs are planning to add stuff later and I'm hoping more proper randomization or at least more alternative layouts and ships are part of that I don't mind the enemies being simple, but I would also enjoy more kinds of them; the first encounter with friendly tourists and warbots were both a big ol' gamechanger, as was my first few runs against zecs before I figured them out. Even after that, zecs were challenging depending on what they were accompanying, because then I had to carefully pick and choose what my loadout was going to be to deal with everything involved, and there'd be more of those interesting "I need x for y but I need z for w" scenarios if there was ... more like, zecs and spooks is a different ship than zecs and juves, but there's not enough of that compared to screws/janitors or janitors/juves or juves/scribes or juves/tourists or other matchups that aren't as demanding of specific resources. I think the dumb monsters are fine, but there needs to be more stuff like the turrets, cameras, zecs, enemies that require you to approach them a certain way instead of janitors and juves, who you can mostly just dump your ammo of choice into and you don't need to think about it much the game is good but it needs more of, like, everything edit: patients are also an enemy that makes me really carefully consider what the gently caress I'm bringing to the show Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 16:11
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anyone else play the demo for neon abyss? I feel like the theme of things lacks a little cohesiveness but otherwise the look of it is great, and I appreciate that it's not whipping a belt across my rear end like Isaac or Gungeon did if I don't find out it's made by a cannibal pedophile or something I'll probably buy it when it comes out in a couple days
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Jul 12, 2020 19:27
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huh, yeah I definitely had more trouble starting Isaac than I did Neon I did play with a controller? I don't know if that makes a difference also yeah the game has full blown features, like actual aspects of the dungeon, locked behind the meta-upgrades (secret rooms, as an example, aren't in the demo; you have to unlock those with the multiple run currency that isn't in the demo). I am one of those idiots that needs a carrot on a string to keep me jumping through hoops, though, so I thought that aspect was kind of cool even though it's literally keeping me away from content until the game comes out. The idea of unlocking or toggling "rules" of the game as part of meta progression is a thing that intrigues me conceptually and I am really, really curious to see it being executed
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Jul 12, 2020 20:21
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Memnaelar posted:Neon Abyss drops in a few hours; I thought the demo was fun but clearly didn't show off the game's full potential. Has anyone had access to it or drawn any opinions from streamers who have? I brought it up on the previous page, but I am into it thus far and cautiously optimistic about the full release it has some neat ideas and I love the gameplay, but I've been heartbroken by untapped potential many times before
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Jul 13, 2020 23:21
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from what I could tell from the demo, eggs hatch into orbitals/options/pets and are very Isaac-y I don't yet know what causes them to hatch or fail to hatch, but the pets evolve and there's items that play off of them (like one item drops keys when you hatch an egg) I did have trouble finding good guns, but to be fair I had that problem at the start of Gungeon, too. The guns are upgradeable with certain items and active abilities (I had a fish gun that was filling the screen with giant bubbles in goofy wave formations my third run). The shooting did lack a little something that I'm hoping unlocks and upgrades will cover, but I had an extremely good time when I got to get my platformer on (one item that grants double jump + another item that boosts your damage when you jump + that fish gun I mentioned was my first "you hit the end of the demo" run) that might be why I like Neon Abyss so much; I am way, way more of a platformer guy than a twin stick shooter guy, and I have sweaty dreams about a Mario Bros based roguelite
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Jul 14, 2020 02:56
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one of the characters can switch weapons and one of them has a melee that acts like an airdash, in addition to passives that give you double jump etc I agree that not getting item descriptions is some bullshit, though, it feels like a cargo cult "these kind of games do this" decision edit: I get a lot of active items, but the fact that they cost 2-3 crystals to use also feels like real questionable design Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 16:45
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Memnaelar posted:I dunno. It's not the deepest, bestest game but I find it to be pretty enjoyable popcorn so far. It took me a lot longer to find the fun in Gungeon than it does here; it's probably not as deep as Gungeon but the gameplay loop has been, for me so far, more enjoyable. I'm about here. I'm not seeing the depth (mechanically or thematically) of Isaac or Gungeon yet, but for twenty bucks I don't regret my decision yet either. There's still a lot of things I'm hoping the game does more with (like bombs, for example) because I think the core gameplay / loop is very me appropriate edit: orbitals blocking your own shots and/or turning purple things into red things is also a thing they should just, not do Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jul 14, 2020 |
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Jul 14, 2020 19:17
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after getting a powerup that makes your bullets explode on impact, I am doubling down on how badly my own orbitals need to stop blocking my shots also things that affect your bombs do not affect those exploding bullets, which is a smidge lame
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Jul 14, 2020 20:17
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Holy hell please devs make it so your orbitals don't block your own explosives. Horrible way to end a run in Neon Abyss. thank god I am not the only one I was always the rear end in a top hat that enjoyed getting ipecac in isaac so I thought this was my divine punishment
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Jul 14, 2020 21:37
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sometimes the wisdom rooms will have an item called Divinity this makes you fly all the time, for the rest of the run and I thought I would mention it because, gently caress
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Jul 14, 2020 22:35
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free sample popcorn + vibrant ball has now killed two (2) whole runs two of my own runs, god only knows how many runs globally
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Jul 15, 2020 04:49
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Neon Abyss things that should be obvious but I'm just now realizing: every starting room has four doors. All of them. If you count three doors you have found a secret room edit: I take it back, I found a starting room in level 7 that's legit just lacking a door in one corner Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 07:09
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I have 8,000+ hours in Construct 2 (some of that's from just leaving it open when I go to bed) and I would recommend putting a snake on your balls before learning to use Construct 2 I still use Construct 2
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Jul 15, 2020 19:07
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it does feel like the hub and maybe the angel rooms in Neon Abyss got all the art budget
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Jul 16, 2020 05:34
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so does anything cause eggs to not hatch, or do they just have like a 50% failure rate for no reason edit: the gun that looks like a trombone and shoots bouncy balls--the Passenger, I think?--gets functionally worse as you upgrade it. The bullets get heavier and bounce less, until eventually they're just kind of trickling out of your gun and you have no range whatsoever. I just lost a run with ridiculous damage from upgrades, but my gun's range was less than my melee distance. Game, I am trying really hard to like you, but Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 08:45
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Neon Abyss has released an experimental patch to test out bug fixes and gameplay changes, so the devs at least are paying attention and putting in the work
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Jul 16, 2020 19:43
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my quirky roguelite will have Skinner Boxes and when you break them, they contain the item Steamed Ham
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Jul 19, 2020 06:12
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the Tik Tok reference in Neon Abyss reminded me of Shoop De Whoop in Isaac, and now I'm wondering what the worst shoehorned in meme/"internet thing that won't age well" in a roguelite is (it might be Shoop De Whoop, but I'm willing to be surprised)
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Jul 19, 2020 06:17
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so some variation of this happens in about 1 in 4 runs of neon abyss  Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 02:26
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related: is there a term for negative item synergy? Like, item A is good, and item B is okay, but if you have them both they're terrible
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Jul 22, 2020 04:22
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neon abyss antergies update: the gun Messenger fires boomerang style shots that return to you. The item Popcorn causes your bullets to explode on impact. You are not immune to your own explosions. This means that every bullet you fire that doesn't hit something else will instead swing back around and explode in your face, dealing damage
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Jul 22, 2020 19:59
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it'll have to wait because I am too high to write an essay, but I'm still playing Neon Abyss not because it's good (it is not) but because I am learning, so loving much from it like, it is the ur-GungeonIsaac-like; it makes so many goofy mistakes, and almost every one of them can be explained perfectly by cargo cult "the big rogue-likes do this, I too must do it" type fundamental design mistakes, combined with a general lack of just... like... testing? Player empathy, I guess? my current theory is that Neon Abyss happens when you watch a lot of Isaac and Gungeon and similar games, but you don't actually play them; you look at the mechanics, but you don't analyze how they make the player feel and how that fits into the overall expectation and experience. It's just ripping tropes from a bulleted list and the execution is as solid as it can be for a bunch of out-of-context, disparate ideas that don't have the same cohesive glue that the sources did. It has the brains but it lacks the heart, and in the scenario where you're deliberately doing a lot of gameplay that would be described as "anti-fun" in other genres, heart actually matters and is secretly part of the brains I'm an amateur game designer and I've nearly made some of these same conceptual mistakes before, Neon Abyss is incredible from a "do not do this" perspective. They're not obvious mistakes from one perspective but they seem so obvious once it's happening you go "oh poo poo why did I imagine that wouldn't piss me off" edit: Neon Abyss feels like a roguelite designed by an algorithm. It's clean, it's generic, it functions efficiently but also makes absurd batshit errors that blow the whole setup Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jul 24, 2020 |
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Jul 24, 2020 04:44
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I was JUST wondering why there were no ZAMN-based roguelites the other day
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Aug 14, 2020 08:57
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Ciaphas posted:life is the ultimate roguelike, my friend strong disagree, the balance is atrocious and the progression system is too heavily dependent on RNG
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Oct 10, 2020 02:07
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it would be funny to actually name a game Rougelight
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Oct 10, 2020 08:33
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Ciaphas posted:i'm looking at Neon Abyss, which i gather is like BoI but sideways; is it also like BoI in that i have to tab out to a wiki every couple of minutes to figure out what I just grabbed? last I checked it doesn't give you item descriptions at a glance AND is bland as hell quick edit: while also having suicidal item combinations double edit: it does give you item descriptions after you pick the item up, at least
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Feb 1, 2021 23:15
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I like the cut of Loop Hero's jib, but a.) I don't need the life story of every new goomba I stomp b.) The villain looks like Sans Undertale c.) I don't think I like the manner in which Sans Undertale shows up on the map
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Feb 5, 2021 07:32
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turns out I misunderstood what makes the lich show up, that mechanic is alright I'm worried this is going to turn out like Neon Abyss, where the premise is good but then the demo is basically the game
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Feb 5, 2021 09:00
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Things I discovered in the Loop Hero demo: - You can Bloodgrove the lich - The trait that gives you half your health as a shield when you loop kicks in before the lich fight starts the first time I fought the boss I was ill prepared, the second time I was very, very prepared
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Feb 6, 2021 02:03
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PMush Perfect posted:Hang on. Text based, permadeath, a log of all your screw-ups that impacts the rest of your experience with it... graphics are too good
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Feb 6, 2021 06:48
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