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BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



Furthur's actually pretty good, especially if you like hearing Grateful Dead songs played really, really slowly.

My only other criticism is that they tend to jam out every song, even songs the Dead used to play pretty straight, and while I get that they're not trying to be a cover band, jamming isn't what they do best. But it's still a fun night out. Beats Ratdog.

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Hollis Brownsound
Apr 2, 2009

by Lowtax


BigFactory posted:

Beats Ratdog.

What doesn't?

Roark
Dec 1, 2009

A moderate man - a violently moderate man.

HollisBrown posted:

What doesn't?

The Donna Jean Godchaux Band. It is bad.

Ratdog isn't bad (Furthur is better, though), but you kind of have to be a Bobby fan. I am a Bobby fan.

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



HollisBrown posted:

What doesn't?

Vince Welnick's Missing Man Formation? They sound really bad these days.

I've been to some fun Ratdog shows, but in hindsight, I've had just as much fun seeing a good bar band.

Hollis Brownsound
Apr 2, 2009

by Lowtax


Roark posted:

The Donna Jean Godchaux Band. It is bad.

BigFactory posted:

Vince Welnick's Missing Man Formation? They sound really bad these days.

I was totally unaware of the existence of either of these groups, touche.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011



Lipstick Apathy

How the gently caress does Vince Welnick still have a band? And if there's a Vince Welnick band why isn't there a Jerry Garcia Band?

Hollis Brownsound
Apr 2, 2009

by Lowtax


BigFactory posted:

Furthur's actually pretty good, especially if you like hearing Grateful Dead songs played really, really slowly.

My only other criticism is that they tend to jam out every song, even songs the Dead used to play pretty straight, and while I get that they're not trying to be a cover band, jamming isn't what they do best. But it's still a fun night out. Beats Ratdog.

Honestly this is my biggest criticism of pretty much all the Dead spinoffs and "Jam Bands" in general. The Grateful Dead weren't a jam band, they were a rock band that could "jam". The biggest difference is that they jammed on good songs, they didn't write songs to be a vehicle for jamming, like Moe. I might argue that Phish is less "jammy" but let's face it, Phish songs are loving dumb (this coming from a huge high school Phish fan). They have about 5 good songs and about 100 dumb as gently caress circus sounding songs.

Good Phish Songs:
1. Fast Enough For You
2. Bouncing around the Room
3. Billy Breathes
4. Roggae

Every single other song has such dumb lyrics that it completely distracts me from the musical performance aspect.

Moe songs I remember the name of:
?

The Grateful Dead started with writing good songs that people can connect with, then started jamming them out. Not writing songs over 15 minute jams.

edit: Sorry I just loving hate Jam Bands

Hollis Brownsound fucked around with this message at Sep 24, 2013 around 00:44

elentar
Aug 26, 2002

Congratulations! Your bonsai is dead!

Grimey Drawer

The best Dead group out there, or at least the best group playing all Dead songs, would be Joe Russo's Almost Dead: http://archive.org/details/jrad2013-01-26.mk5.flac16

Of course, that group can only ever get together for one or two shows a year, max. But I'm pretty confident they'll be great shows every time out.

MixMasterMalaria
Jul 26, 2007


Thanks for the feedback on Furthur, I got tickets and will be seeing them on the last scheduled 2013 date! I'll post my impressions in a couple of weeks.

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



LordPants posted:

How the gently caress does Vince Welnick still have a band? And if there's a Vince Welnick band why isn't there a Jerry Garcia Band?

That was a joke. But missing man formation was not a good band.

HollisBrown posted:

Honestly this is my biggest criticism of pretty much all the Dead spinoffs and "Jam Bands" in general. The Grateful Dead weren't a jam band, they were a rock band that could "jam". The biggest difference is that they jammed on good songs, they didn't write songs to be a vehicle for jamming, like Moe. I might argue that Phish is less "jammy" but let's face it, Phish songs are loving dumb (this coming from a huge high school Phish fan). They have about 5 good songs and about 100 dumb as gently caress circus sounding songs.

Good Phish Songs:
1. Fast Enough For You
2. Bouncing around the Room
3. Billy Breathes
4. Roggae

Every single other song has such dumb lyrics that it completely distracts me from the musical performance aspect.

Moe songs I remember the name of:
?

The Grateful Dead started with writing good songs that people can connect with, then started jamming them out. Not writing songs over 15 minute jams.

edit: Sorry I just loving hate Jam Bands

Phish is better prog rock band than a jam band. Jam bands are pretty stupid. Billy Breathes is a good song, though, and is neither prog rock nor jam band stuff.

BigFactory fucked around with this message at Sep 24, 2013 around 12:37

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011



Lipstick Apathy

BigFactory posted:

That was a joke. But missing man formation was not a good band.



Going for a bike ride tomorrow, think I might bust out some 77 Dead for the ride. Haven't listened to something from May for a while, I love the music never stops from that era. So drat funky.

Hollis Brownsound
Apr 2, 2009

by Lowtax


BigFactory posted:

Phish is better prog rock band than a jam band. Jam bands are pretty stupid. Billy Breathes is a good song, though, and is neither prog rock nor jam band stuff.

I'll agree with all of that. Honestly I wouldn't dislike Phish quite so much if people would stop comparing them to the Dead.

Anyway I'm off the hate train.

Robert Hunter just won a lifetime achievement award from The Americana Music Association http://www.dead.net/features/americ...ievement-award, which is great but I really think he needs to be held on the same level as Bob Dylan.

Juaguocio
Jun 5, 2005

egregium sanctumque
uirum si cerno,
bimembri hoc
monstrum puero


"So blow your whistle, hate train
take me far on down the track..."

I've been into September '72 big time lately. The boys were playing tight and intense during this period, and tight intensity is where it's at for me. My favorites so far are the 17th and 21st, which appear on Dick's Picks 23 and 36, respectively.

OniKun
Jul 23, 2003

Cheap Mexican Labor since the late 80's

MixMasterMalaria posted:

Thinking of going to see Furthur in LA next month but I'm having sticker shock on the $60 tickets. I'm a fan of the dead (listen to stuff from the archives, go frequently to local cover/tribute bands) so I feel like its probably worth it, but the price combined with the fact that its assigned seating (used to dancing it up at GA tribute shows) makes me hesitate. Anybody with experience seeing Furthur or with knowledge of the venue have thoughts on what I should expect?

I just saw Furthur for two nights in Berkeley. It was my first experience seeing any Jam band, beyond seeing Dark Star Orchestra a couple of months back. I'm a pretty easy-going Dead fan; I'll listen to almost anything but the late 90's, I think all members of the band contributed something awesome to the sound, and hell, I even like Donna a lot of the time. So, I guess I have very low standards.

It was one of the best musical experiences I've had in my life. It's really a totally different experience when you have a few musicians on stage who are actively looking to create something, rather than just playing a setlist out the same way they've done hundreds of other times like other bands. Listening to recordings off of the archive is one thing, but watching the interplay between the musicians brings it to a whole new level. It's hard to visualize when you listen to the recording, and watching a youtube video can only do so much... watching all of the folks in Further communicate through music was astounding.

I say it is worth it, unless you hate fun or something. The only downside I found from the shows is what someone said earlier... they really do jam out every single song. It was a bit tiring sometimes... and drat, they did some long jams. I don't think they stopped a single time during the last set on Sunday evening... Uncle Johns Band into St. Stephen had me ridiculously excited. I was so happy to get to hear St. Stephen live...

OniKun fucked around with this message at May 25, 2015 around 01:56

Juaguocio
Jun 5, 2005

egregium sanctumque
uirum si cerno,
bimembri hoc
monstrum puero


OniKun posted:

Uncle Johns Band into St. Stephen had me ridiculously excited. I was so happy to get to hear St. Stephen live...

I love that this sentence exists in the year 2013. As long as Furthur are continuing to provide experiences like yours, I don't think anyone can complain.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


The three night run at interlocken was really something else. I'd been to and appreciated plenty of Darkstar Orchestra but, and even though I had good experiences I was really surprised with how much I enjoyed the Furthur shows. Its left me going back and digging through all of the Dicks Picks a buddy of mine burned for me a few years back when he first started getting me into the Dead's music. I'm gonna try and catch them again this weekend in LA.

Hollis Brownsound
Apr 2, 2009

by Lowtax


Juaguocio posted:

"So blow your whistle, hate train
take me far on down the track..."

I've been into September '72 big time lately. The boys were playing tight and intense during this period, and tight intensity is where it's at for me. My favorites so far are the 17th and 21st, which appear on Dick's Picks 23 and 36, respectively.

I generally agree, I really like 70-72 a lot and the few 75 shows. But I'm really digging some of the sleepy/dreamy late 70's stuff. I especially have been digging some of the really slow versions of St. Stephen from the late 70's.

Roark
Dec 1, 2009

A moderate man - a violently moderate man.

HollisBrown posted:

I generally agree, I really like 70-72 a lot and the few 75 shows. But I'm really digging some of the sleepy/dreamy late 70's stuff. I especially have been digging some of the really slow versions of St. Stephen from the late 70's.

I'm obviously a huge early 70s fan, but I've actually been getting into the late 80s/early 90s stuff. It's really uneven, but the stuff that's great is great (although the stuff that's bad is really bad). I've really been digging the March 1990 shows in Maryland, and there's some great Scarlet Begonias>Estimated Prophet jams (not songs that I'm usually a huge fan of).

Hollis Brownsound
Apr 2, 2009

by Lowtax


Roark posted:

I'm obviously a huge early 70s fan, but I've actually been getting into the late 80s/early 90s stuff. It's really uneven, but the stuff that's great is great (although the stuff that's bad is really bad). I've really been digging the March 1990 shows in Maryland, and there's some great Scarlet Begonias>Estimated Prophet jams (not songs that I'm usually a huge fan of).

Yeah it's easy to hear a bad late 80s-90s Dead Show and get turned off to the whole period, which sadly did happen to me for awhile.

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



HollisBrown posted:

Yeah it's easy to hear a bad late 80s-90s Dead Show and get turned off to the whole period, which sadly did happen to me for awhile.

I like late 80s / early 90s shows cause you get to hear Phil sing Broken Arrow every once in a while.

Juaguocio
Jun 5, 2005

egregium sanctumque
uirum si cerno,
bimembri hoc
monstrum puero


I don't think anyone has mentioned http://deadessays.blogspot.ca/

It's a series of extremely in-depth posts about the Dead's earlier periods. I recommend it highly, especially the Grateful Dead Song Graph.

Zeluth
May 12, 2001



Fun Shoe

Green Shields in the parking lot. How does one get home after that?

Free spaghetti.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011



Lipstick Apathy

That Cold Rain and Snow from the Steppin' Out... box set is so good. So much bite and energy. Spoiler alert, I guess, Europe 72 was a great tour.

Roark
Dec 1, 2009

A moderate man - a violently moderate man.

It's Bob Weir's 66th birthday today. Throw on some "Me and My Uncle" and celebrate.

Waltzing Along
Jun 14, 2008

May your eyes be opened by the wonderful


Just read through the thread and kind of sad to see so little mention of Brent.

One could argue that the end of the Brent run, after Jerry got off heroin, was the high point in their career. From the end of 87 till brents death the music just got better and better. Without a Net was recorded during the fall 89 and spring 90 tours and includes the wonderful Branford Marsalis Eyes of the World.

They had played with Miles in the early 70s, but he was miles ahead of them and they could barely keep up. But by the time March 29, 1990 rolled around, they had progressed a great deal as musicians and created something wonderful.

Even the band themselves view that time as something special. If you look at pictures and video they look happier and healthier. Unfortunately, after Brents wife left him, he crashed and the band was never the same again.

Hollis Brownsound
Apr 2, 2009

by Lowtax


Waltzing Along posted:

Just read through the thread and kind of sad to see so little mention of Brent.

One could argue that the end of the Brent run, after Jerry got off heroin, was the high point in their career. From the end of 87 till brents death the music just got better and better. Without a Net was recorded during the fall 89 and spring 90 tours and includes the wonderful Branford Marsalis Eyes of the World.

They had played with Miles in the early 70s, but he was miles ahead of them and they could barely keep up. But by the time March 29, 1990 rolled around, they had progressed a great deal as musicians and created something wonderful.

Even the band themselves view that time as something special. If you look at pictures and video they look happier and healthier. Unfortunately, after Brents wife left him, he crashed and the band was never the same again.

Yeah but his songs were terrible.

Noise Machine
Dec 3, 2005

Today is a good day to save.

Fun Shoe

Ok, so I know American Beauty and "Touch of Grey" with a few other random songs here and there. I want the WEIRDEST The Dead ever got. Like Phil studied with some 20th century composers right? Gimmie the most out they got.

Hollis Brownsound
Apr 2, 2009

by Lowtax


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E9pl2YHDdk

But really they're not a "weird" band but check the album"Anthem of the Sun".

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



HollisBrown posted:

Yeah but his songs were terrible.

Just a little light's not bad.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Noise Machine posted:

Ok, so I know American Beauty and "Touch of Grey" with a few other random songs here and there. I want the WEIRDEST The Dead ever got. Like Phil studied with some 20th century composers right? Gimmie the most out they got.

Their weirdest stuff is going to be the earliest you can find. A lot of their earliest sets were just dropping acid and jamming for hours on end for acid test parties etc. That, naturally, doesn't translate the best to studio albums. Live/Dead tries. After and starting with Workingman's Dead is when you start seeing much more conventional song writing. Also, in their live sets a structure started to emerge where the first set would be typically be fairly standard run throughs of songs, and the second set is when they'd do all sorts of out there jamming. Standard jam vehicles include things like Dark Star, which can get out there. Blues for Allah can get out there at points, they wrote and produced that during a time when they were having several run ins with Indian Classical music and Jerry was chewing on raga concepts. Probably my favorite track(s) from that which gets out there and also provides really interesting jams in live sets is/are Help On The Way/Slipknot. Also around this time period, both Mickey and Billy had the opportunity to meet and practice with Alla Rakha, Ravi Shankar's tour tablaist of that time who had been touring around the United States with Shankar in the early 70's. Rakha introduced them to certain concepts of tala in Indian music and also showed them this neat trick where both drummers would play in different time cycles, say a 5 and a 6, which would bring both drummers together on every 30th beat, and then have them split off. This would give Jerry the opportunity to hop back and forth between different time signatures with ease, in the same song.

Edit: Weirdest stuff to me is always the Space jams, Standing on the Moon, stuff like that.

Yiggy fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2013 around 20:01

Juaguocio
Jun 5, 2005

egregium sanctumque
uirum si cerno,
bimembri hoc
monstrum puero


I like the songs that start off easygoing before hitting warp speed. "Viola Lee Blues" can get pretty crazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4hXTjxsVYQ The start of that recording is rough, but it gets better.

"Playing In The Band" is another song that provided a vehicle for some intense jams. This is one of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLd6sAUxgyM I recommend turning down the bass slightly, if you can.

Hollis Brownsound
Apr 2, 2009

by Lowtax


Check out "Infrared Roses". It's a compilation of a bunch of "space" jams. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXJWpQ4wF9Q

Waltzing Along
Jun 14, 2008

May your eyes be opened by the wonderful


Speaking of "weird" dead stuff, I'd look for the meltdowns. Someone in this thread will be better able to point you in that direction. They definitely aren't for everyone, though.

Juaguocio
Jun 5, 2005

egregium sanctumque
uirum si cerno,
bimembri hoc
monstrum puero


The "Playing" I posted gets pretty close to a full-on Tiger meltdown, but Phil and Billy keep a semblance of structure underneath Jerry's dissonant shredding. There's another well-known "Playing" from 12/02/73 that disintegrates into shrieking chaos before transitioning into the "Mind Left Body" jam. It appears on Dick's Picks 14.

elentar
Aug 26, 2002

Congratulations! Your bonsai is dead!

Grimey Drawer

For Dead-related weirdness you can also try Grayfolded, John Oswald's Plunderphonics take on 30+ years of Dark Star.

Noise Machine
Dec 3, 2005

Today is a good day to save.

Fun Shoe

elentar posted:

For Dead-related weirdness you can also try Grayfolded, John Oswald's Plunderphonics take on 30+ years of Dark Star.

gently caress. YES.

My first "real" Dead initiation was leaving my radio on when I was 14, and being woken up in the middle of the night when the DJ at the college station spun some boot of "Dark Star." When he said it was the Dead I couldn't believe it.

Also thanks for all the other suggestions!

Edit: Really digging "Infrared Roses" so far too.

Noise Machine fucked around with this message at Oct 19, 2013 around 22:49

Roark
Dec 1, 2009

A moderate man - a violently moderate man.

BigFactory posted:

Just a little light's not bad.

It's not bad, but it's not great. I appreciate his musicianship, but most of his songs are in the mediocre/unmemorable range.

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



Roark posted:

It's not bad, but it's not great. I appreciate his musicianship, but most of his songs are in the mediocre/unmemorable range.

Yeah they all stink but that's the best of the worst. Tons of Steel might be the worst song in thier catalog. His covers kinda rule though. I'm thinking of a Dear Mr Fantasy maybe on without a net? that's really good.

Hollis Brownsound
Apr 2, 2009

by Lowtax


BigFactory posted:

Yeah they all stink but that's the best of the worst. Tons of Steel might be the worst song in thier catalog. His covers kinda rule though. I'm thinking of a Dear Mr Fantasy maybe on without a net? that's really good.

That's truth.

I also don't really like his singing. I would have liked his voice by itself, he's got a nice gravely, bluesy sound and he's by far the best and harmonizing, but it just didn't mesh well with everyone else.

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algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011



Lipstick Apathy

I enjoy the 'punch' his vocals added. Nothing like him laying down a fat "Jack Straw from Wichita" at the climax of the song.

While they're not amazing, I don't mind his Go To Heaven tracks, they're not amazing but they're not so bad. Also, he only sung them once a blue moon.

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