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BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



hatelull posted:

I've been on the New Year's Eve Winterland show, working up the steam to explore the 80's live sets.

Morbidly curious: What eras find Garcia at his most heavy into the hard drugs?

If you’re talking about heroin it was pretty much all of the 80s and part of the 90s except for periods where he got clean.

And I’m sure he was doing tons of blow all through the 70s.

BigFactory fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jun 21, 2021

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Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



Heroin hit the band hard in the late 80s/early 90s too. Brent died of a speedball OD in 1990 and Jerry died in a rehab facility 5 years later.

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



Do you notice a difference in their playing and jammy quality when the band were deep into the H compared to say, the Veneta show? I haven't gone past that '79 Winterland show ... yet.

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



If what youre getting at is "Did the smack make them better jammers" no, it was the opposite.

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



hatelull posted:

Do you notice a difference in their playing and jammy quality when the band were deep into the H compared to say, the Veneta show? I haven't gone past that '79 Winterland show ... yet.

They were pretty fuckin up tempo in 76/77/78. I suspect the dressing rooms looked the Christmas display in a department store window.

But as far as Jerry’s playing went, I think he was pretty boring in the late 80s. He got in a nice groove with Brent sometimes but a lot of it sounds paint by numbers to me. I’m sure the shows were a blast to go to but the music wasn’t that inspired. I think I even prefer some 90s runs when Jerry’s voice was shot. He seemed to be more engaged.

I think I’ve said it before, but listen to the scarlet fire from 10/01/94 that opened up the 2nd set. It’s the best transition between the songs I’ve ever heard, better than anything they did in the 70s. They were locked in. I think he was clean in 94 and relapsed in 95.

https://archive.org/details/gd94-10-01.pmb.pujol.15079.sbeok.shnf

Listening to it again, the scarlet fire transition is great, but the transition from slipknot into franklins sucks just like it always does. How come they always botch that? The studio version is perfect and every time they played it live that I’ve heard it’s awkward. Even on one from the vault they eat it on the transition.

BigFactory fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jun 21, 2021

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



The Grateful Dead were really good. It’s too bad Jerry couldn’t get clean and stay clean. They could still be touring. At the time it seemed like they had been touring forever, but looking back now it was kind of a short run. Phish has already passed them and they’ll keep playing for years. Springsteen did it longer and he’s probably not done. Plenty of bands who do big touring schedules like they did have passed them or will soon. Like dumb jam bands like String Cheese and Moe have been around for over 20 years. They’ll outlast the Dead. I don’t even want to jinx it but Dylan’s been touring for just about 60 years and he was doing over 100 dates a year not that long ago.

Edit- saying it’s “too bad “Jerry couldn’t get clean is stupid, it’s tragic he couldn’t get clean. He was wonderful.

BigFactory fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jun 21, 2021

Septic Knothead
Jul 23, 2009

Boris S Wart
The Second Meanest Man In The World


hatelull posted:

I've been on the New Year's Eve Winterland show, working up the steam to explore the 80's live sets.

Morbidly curious: What eras find Garcia at his most heavy into the hard drugs?

My opinion is 1985. Some of his singing sounds a bit like Molly Hatchet. Others may have different takes on when his heaviest use might be. There are some great 1985 performances, but vocally there's a specific way he sings that to my ear is unique to 1985.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

I agree. There was a Scarlett Fire video I cant find on YouTube where he has the worst shakes and sounds like a 300 year old man singing. Horrible.

I can handle 83, but prefer 82. Then from the other side 87 onwards.

Arms_Akimbo
Sep 29, 2006

It's so damn...literal.

hatelull posted:

Do you notice a difference in their playing and jammy quality when the band were deep into the H compared to say, the Veneta show? I haven't gone past that '79 Winterland show ... yet.

There's a few shows on YouTube between 85 and 87 where Jerry is completely smacked. If you talk to old heads a lot of them are bitter about that era, all the BS to get a ticket and get in the show just to have Jerry basically nodding off on stage

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

Ain't got half a what you thought you had

BigFactory posted:

The Grateful Dead were really good. It’s too bad Jerry couldn’t get clean and stay clean. They could still be touring. At the time it seemed like they had been touring forever, but looking back now it was kind of a short run. Phish has already passed them and they’ll keep playing for years. Springsteen did it longer and he’s probably not done. Plenty of bands who do big touring schedules like they did have passed them or will soon. Like dumb jam bands like String Cheese and Moe have been around for over 20 years. They’ll outlast the Dead. I don’t even want to jinx it but Dylan’s been touring for just about 60 years and he was doing over 100 dates a year not that long ago.

Edit- saying it’s “too bad “Jerry couldn’t get clean is stupid, it’s tragic he couldn’t get clean. He was wonderful.

My counterfactual fantasy would be Jerry getting clean but pivoting away from the Dead and just playing smaller acoustic/bluegrass shows into old age. Jerry dying is a tragedy for sure, but not because it robbed of us another 20 years of Dead shows IMO

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



Sharks Eat Bear posted:

My counterfactual fantasy would be Jerry getting clean but pivoting away from the Dead and just playing smaller acoustic/bluegrass shows into old age. Jerry dying is a tragedy for sure, but not because it robbed of us another 20 years of Dead shows IMO

I had more fun at DGQ shows than just about any concerts I can think of. He could have joined.

Arms_Akimbo
Sep 29, 2006

It's so damn...literal.

I don't think the dead would have kept touring much longer even if Jerry had lived. Tour was going off the rails. They couldn't contain all the people that were showing up without a ticket after they were already selling out the biggest venues in the city, not to mention the municipal hurdles a tour that size needed to jump. My guess is things would be pretty much the same as they are now except jgb stayed on tour and they wouldn't have needed trey for fare thee well

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



Arms_Akimbo posted:

I don't think the dead would have kept touring much longer even if Jerry had lived. Tour was going off the rails. They couldn't contain all the people that were showing up without a ticket after they were already selling out the biggest venues in the city, not to mention the municipal hurdles a tour that size needed to jump. My guess is things would be pretty much the same as they are now except jgb stayed on tour and they wouldn't have needed trey for fare thee well
There could have been options if they wanted to keep it going. One would be to scale down tours and schedule it so it’s harder for people to stay on tour if it got too unmanageable. Some of those tours when they called themselves Furthur or The Dead were like that with big gaps and major travel between dates. Or they could have just done a summer stadium tour where they’re not doing 4 night stands downtown in a city, and end the tour with a festival like Highgate. The money was there, someone would figure it out.

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



Touring was a big part of what killed Jerry too imo. The band had such a massive crew, a lot of which were personal friends and family of the band, that stopping touring meant a lot of people werent going to be able to put food on the table. I think if they had been able to slow down or just take more breaks Jerry would have been able to get healthier and get the rest and help he needed.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

Ain't got half a what you thought you had

BigFactory posted:

I had more fun at DGQ shows than just about any concerts I can think of. He could have joined.

Absolutely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Be8eDb_kY

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


Kvlt! posted:

Touring was a big part of what killed Jerry too imo. The band had such a massive crew, a lot of which were personal friends and family of the band, that stopping touring meant a lot of people werent going to be able to put food on the table. I think if they had been able to slow down or just take more breaks Jerry would have been able to get healthier and get the rest and help he needed.

It's a shame because by the end it seems he was trying to make a conscious effort to do *something* about his situation. I can't remember who said it but they did talk about how trying to give him an ultimatum wouldn't work because he would go and do shows with the Garcia band instead. While that's true, I also think maybe it's a case of trying to justify something in hindsight. Of course no one in the band knew he was going to die (though at times their final show with him makes it seem that way) but you have to do a lot of looking the other way to not see the reality of someone in that state.

I just saw LONG, STRANGE TRIP for the first time (is there any difference between the 4 hour movie version and the TV show?) and arguably it makes a great case for why they should have ended it in 74. Though they would go on to be even more successful than they were, and play even better, the spirit of the thing was gone. There's that great anecdote about how at their last 74 show, among backstage fighting between cokeheads and acidheads, one of the crew camped at the top of the stairs making sure anyone who went to stage had to take a hit of acid, trying to force the old spirit of the Dead onto people. It's funny but revealing too. When Phil talks about those comeback shows and how everyone was even better players than before but he never shook the feeling that there was 'something missing' I think he hit on a similar thought as that crew member did.

Anyway, good movie if not disappointingly vague at times. And it's less fun when their tour manager leaves given how hilarious he was. There's a great moment where Phil is talking about the wall of sound and how amazing it is and all this only to cut back to him saying "The Grateful Dead are loving stupid".

DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jul 8, 2021

sweet_jones
Dec 31, 2006



DrVenkman posted:

I can't remember who said it but they did talk about how trying to give him an ultimatum wouldn't work because he would go and do shows with the Garcia band instead.

That would be the dad/cop/bassist of the band.

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



Phil "Slamming Heinekens onstage after his liver transplant" Lesh

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



Kvlt! posted:

Phil "Slamming Heinekens onstage after his liver transplant" Lesh

Every night on that 1999 tour with Dylan. Cracked open a cold one right after his organ donor rap.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

Ain't got half a what you thought you had

Hot take: the debut of He’s Gone is the best version of the song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOTWLpSUBM8

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

Ain't got half a what you thought you had

Also I didn’t know the song was written by hunter as a slight on Mickey hart’s dad who embezzled money from the dead as their manager, but then a year later it became known as a memorial tribute to pigpen. Interesting history

https://deadessays.blogspot.com/2019/09/hes-gone.html?m=1

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

God that's a heavy version of the song. Totally rips.

From that article:

quote:

Garcia: My recollection is we wrote it just before we went to Europe in 1972. I remember working on it in a little apartment I had in [San Francisco]…
Hunter: It was considerations of Lenny in my head that kicked off the whole “Rat in a drain ditch, out on a limb, you know better but I know him.” I was telling them all along this was not the right way to go. I must say, I told you all so!
Garcia: Yeah, you did.
Hunter: So the song started that way, but later on it became an anthem for Pigpen, and it’s changed through the years. These songs are amorphous that way. What I intend is not what a thing is in the end.
Garcia: …We don’t create the meaning of the tunes ultimately. They recreate themselves each performance in the minds of everybody there.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


After saying that it turns out we just passed the date of Jerry's last show with them. 9th July 1995. Can't help but think sometimes that by the end maybe it was a case of Jerry being done with it all and waiting on the inevitable.

On that note it's jarring to watch videos on YouTube and go from a lively Jerry in 77 to strung out, broken voiced and grey haired Jerry of 1980. I'm not so versed in the 80s and I know the mid to back half of the decade was generally better for Jerry performances. But is it a case that most of those early years has him strung out?

DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jul 10, 2021

User Error
Aug 31, 2006


So uh, Dead and Co are touring. I just saw them in STL and the loving killed it. Oteil is the man. My first dead show and it was a good one.

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"

Looks like you got a good set list! Oteil singing China Doll is a real treat.

I have tickets for Tampa next month, kind of wishing I had grabbed lawn instead of pit tickets for the social distancing aspect. Supposedly they're requiring proof of vax or negative covid test but not sure how that will mesh with our shithead governor doing everything in his power to prohibit any such precautions.

Septic Knothead
Jul 23, 2009

Boris S Wart
The Second Meanest Man In The World


Final Blog Entry posted:

Looks like you got a good set list! Oteil singing China Doll is a real treat.

I have tickets for Tampa next month, kind of wishing I had grabbed lawn instead of pit tickets for the social distancing aspect. Supposedly they're requiring proof of vax or negative covid test but not sure how that will mesh with our shithead governor doing everything in his power to prohibit any such precautions.

I saw them in VA in August. They checked that I had a vax card. I was in the (open air but covered) pavilion, I didn't feel too crowded while inside. The show was not sold out, but it was pretty full. I wore double masks while inside. My friends did not wear masks at all. I saw only a few people wearing masks while inside. Neither myself or my friends ended up sick afterward. It was only the second show of the tour.

I enjoyed Bird Song in the first set, and HC Sunshine and Scarlet/Fire in the second.`

trouser chili
Mar 27, 2002

Unnngggggghhhhh


User Error posted:

So uh, Dead and Co are touring. I just saw them in STL and the loving killed it. Oteil is the man. My first dead show and it was a good one.

The show certainly had its moments.

Noise Machine
Dec 3, 2005

Today is a good day to save.



User Error posted:

So uh, Dead and Co are touring. I just saw them in STL and the loving killed it. Oteil is the man. My first dead show and it was a good one.

This entire TOUR has been loving killing it. Caught night 2 in Mansfield and holy poo poo, my favorite Dead & Co show I've seen so far

WerthersWay
Jul 21, 2009



Final Blog Entry posted:

Looks like you got a good set list! Oteil singing China Doll is a real treat.

I have tickets for Tampa next month, kind of wishing I had grabbed lawn instead of pit tickets for the social distancing aspect. Supposedly they're requiring proof of vax or negative covid test but not sure how that will mesh with our shithead governor doing everything in his power to prohibit any such precautions.

Rumor has it they're cancelling the FL and TX shows. Heard it from a person who correctly had news about the surprise Red Rock shows before it was announced.

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"

Yeah I could see them doing that. I'd be bummed but wouldn't blame them. Hopefully they'd try to reschedule sometime down the road. Already dealt with that with Mayer's appendectomy last time they had FL dates and I'd feel better about going to a show if it's at a point in time when vaccines are available to my daughter's age group so I don't have to worry as much about bringing a breakthrough case home to her.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


Yeah Dead and Co have been really good this tour. I don't know if they rehearsed more or if they're just naturally getting better playing together, but it's working. Mayer is such a talented player (and I never thought I'd say that).

They've been dipping into the back catalogue quite a bit so I'm waiting for Bobby to bust out Alligator again.

User Error
Aug 31, 2006


Holy smokes I have got to get the recording of this show. I was just listening to Live/Dead this morning and wondering how they would do those songs today.

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



Oteil singing If I Had The World To Give is a real treat, I love that song and I adore Oteil's vocals

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Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"

User Error posted:

Holy smokes I have got to get the recording of this show. I was just listening to Live/Dead this morning and wondering how they would do those songs today.



I'm sure it'll be on Archive in a few days

https://archive.org/details/DeadAndCompany

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