Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
  • Post
  • Reply
Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


The 3 night Furthur run this last weekend was amazing. When Phil came out at the end though and gave his liver transplant speech it felt like a punch in the heart. Bobby still sounded good to me. Sarah Tedesci played a bunch of songs with them and watching her play through was really touching. Trey Anastasio sat in for about an hour on Saturday. I hope to see them play some more times, it was a great experience.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


The three night run at interlocken was really something else. I'd been to and appreciated plenty of Darkstar Orchestra but, and even though I had good experiences I was really surprised with how much I enjoyed the Furthur shows. Its left me going back and digging through all of the Dicks Picks a buddy of mine burned for me a few years back when he first started getting me into the Dead's music. I'm gonna try and catch them again this weekend in LA.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Noise Machine posted:

Ok, so I know American Beauty and "Touch of Grey" with a few other random songs here and there. I want the WEIRDEST The Dead ever got. Like Phil studied with some 20th century composers right? Gimmie the most out they got.

Their weirdest stuff is going to be the earliest you can find. A lot of their earliest sets were just dropping acid and jamming for hours on end for acid test parties etc. That, naturally, doesn't translate the best to studio albums. Live/Dead tries. After and starting with Workingman's Dead is when you start seeing much more conventional song writing. Also, in their live sets a structure started to emerge where the first set would be typically be fairly standard run throughs of songs, and the second set is when they'd do all sorts of out there jamming. Standard jam vehicles include things like Dark Star, which can get out there. Blues for Allah can get out there at points, they wrote and produced that during a time when they were having several run ins with Indian Classical music and Jerry was chewing on raga concepts. Probably my favorite track(s) from that which gets out there and also provides really interesting jams in live sets is/are Help On The Way/Slipknot. Also around this time period, both Mickey and Billy had the opportunity to meet and practice with Alla Rakha, Ravi Shankar's tour tablaist of that time who had been touring around the United States with Shankar in the early 70's. Rakha introduced them to certain concepts of tala in Indian music and also showed them this neat trick where both drummers would play in different time cycles, say a 5 and a 6, which would bring both drummers together on every 30th beat, and then have them split off. This would give Jerry the opportunity to hop back and forth between different time signatures with ease, in the same song.

Edit: Weirdest stuff to me is always the Space jams, Standing on the Moon, stuff like that.

Yiggy fucked around with this message at Oct 17, 2013 around 20:01

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


The distinction that the Dead were not a Jam band, but a Rock Band who could Jam when they wanted to, seems like a really thin, pedantic distinction to me. The thrust of their music when they started was definitely on the jammy side of things. The idea that it was a band of Very Serious musicians is also slightly spurious (except Jerry, that guy was seriously into his bluegrass and roots music, no argument there). Before Phil was looped into playing gigs, he didn't even play bass. Yeah he formally studied music and over time that shows in his playing, but even then he was still just a student with a background when he was recruited, he wasn't accomplished or anything. Bobby was just one of Jerry's guitar students. Pigpen was this greasy haired kid following Jerry around who loved blues and crooning, picked up some low level keys skills to sit in on some gigs. Now, did they become amazing musicians night after night of playing together? Absolutely, there is an interview with Jerry where he points out that, to paraphrase, "Playing the gig is the best practice." And at the outset what you can describe their music as is more closely to jammier tone poem sort of songs than any sort of coherent, rock band fare. And even when they started writing more conventional song form music, they never abandoned or played down their jammier roots, in the least. Improvisation is such a clear core value of their playing, and something so generally absent from most Rock bands, that calling the Dead a Rock band that (can) jam seems to really be selling them short, to me at least.


numbs posted:

I just can't get into this type of music. I'm a very musically open person though.

I went to a Phish concert a few months back, and the following is MASSIVE. There are some dedicated people following this band.

Yet, I can't seem to enjoy it. Someone explain this genre to me, because I'm not understanding.

Dude Phish is weird. From the lot to the stage & music, that scene is just very... strange. But, even though they're not one of my favorites by any stretch, I find some good parts in their music.

I'm assuming you're referring specifically to and asking about jam band music, so I'm going to try to elaborate on that.

Jam bands, whats the deal with jam music? Well first off, most jam bands sound very different, and thats because Jam Band music is not really a musical genre in the way we typically think of them (e.g. metal, ska, reggae, etc.) but rather a band that, whatever their musical tastes and roots, is emphasizing improvisation and novelty as key aspects of their live performance. And so naturally even though there is unarguably a scene of jam bands and music, a lot of times different bands' jamming sounds nothing alike. Each band is going to have certain roots and genres they like to draw from, will have songs couched firmly in one genre or another, but then in live play the song(s) will be expanded, will run into other songs, etc.

Here is a variety of different jam bands and what I feel their emphasis/roots are.

The Grateful Dead: Mostly blues, bluegrass, roots/americana
Phish: Prog rock, jazz
Umphrey's McGee: Metal, prog, rock n roll
String Cheese Incident: Mostly bluegrass, jazz, funk, country
Widespread Panic: Classic rock n roll, blues, metal

There are some other notable jam bands I'm leaving out but I haven't listened to them as much, so I don't want to comment. At live shows, jam bands will take the musical idioms from their familiar backgrounds and fuse them together in interesting ways. Now the thing is, with a lot of these jam bands they have a pretty big catalog of songs they draw from, and the real enjoyment of being familiar with the music comes along when you're able to follow the sets, feel where they're going as they move from one song to another, ride the tension and release from one song, one idea, one jam to the next. Especially if you've been seeing this band night after night, when every set is different, the sets and the music take on a more transactional quality than a typical live music set will, there is a back and forth between the bandmates, the music, and the fans that you don't run into at more vanilla, straight-set-list-from-night-to-night shows.

At the heart though, whats most important in Jam Band music is the improvisation and the interaction between the musicians on stage. Different bands handle these moments differently, but for an example I'll describe something really cool that Umphrey's McGee does for their jams. Typically they call them Jimmy Stewarts, and these parts of the show are 100% improvised, no song that they're jamming out of as a vehicle which they may or may not return to. In these Jimmy Stewarts, the band will communicate with each other with various hand signals they've worked out. So lets say their lead guitarist, Jake, will play out a solo for a bit and then throw out the hand signal that he's going to switch keys to A, or whatever and the band follows tightly. This gives the music a spontaneous, live element thats just awesome to experience. Sometimes the improvisations aren't always a hit, but when they find that sweet spot, and you're hearing a fresh, collaborative improvisation for the first time, produced on the spot, thats just a really sublime experience (for jam band fans, at least). Like I said though, different bands do it differently, I haven't seen the others use a system of communication and signals as elaborate as UM. When I saw Furthur though Phil was very clearly leading all of the jams, sometimes explicitly calling out moves on the bands internal mic, sometimes guiding it very gently with his bass lines.

This sort of jamming tradition is something that extends straight out of the small combo jazz of the 50's and 60's, when music was becoming less about just dancing to it and more about experiencing it as live art that musicians create. Now, jam bands seem to be preserving part of this element (the dedicated to improv), while still maintaining that dancible quality to the music that a lot of later Jazz was clearly losing touch with.

Yiggy fucked around with this message at Oct 22, 2013 around 21:59

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


MixMasterMalaria posted:

Okay, at the encouragement of some of you deadgoons I did end up going to see Furthur at the Greek on the last night of the tour. What a fantastic experience! The crowd was really into it (and full of serious deadheads of all ages) and the parking lot scene was very interesting. Everyone was dancing like their lives depended on it and the number of people who were in enhanced states of consciousness seemed like it would rival a music festival. The music was very satisfying, and to finally be at a dead family event in person was a more sentimental experience than I had expected.

I've listened to the archive tapes a couple of times now, but does anyone know if it's worth picking up the multi-track recording from Furthur's website?


http://archive.org/details/furthur-2013-10-06
I really enjoyed the St. Stephen.

Thats awesome! I drove all the way out from Texas to catch them on Friday night but I had to book it to the Bay Area the next morning and so I didn't get to see the other two nights. I'm glad to hear someone say how much they enjoyed it. Friday was just awesome, following the set list after the fact apparently they were squeezing a lot of songs in on this run that they hadn't played in awhile. I got a Hey Pocky Way, which was nice. The Darkstar they played was really great too, they went from Darkstar to Eyes of the World with Phil singing (and he sounded really good! So glad I got to see them after they had a day of rest), back into Dark Star, then into Box of Rain, teasing Dark Star's melody a little bit right before finishing Box, and then finishing with Black Peter and Shakedown Street. It was awesome!

As for the official soundboards, I sprang for it. I saw them at Interlocken and got those sets too, but before doing so listened to the archived version a few times on the drive home. The soundboard version was better for the Interlocken shows. I didn't bother checking for the Friday night Greek Set before I purchased, but the quality of the soundboard is very good for the first night of that run, probably will be for Sunday too.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


I started that the other month, listening to sets on my walks, and I needed a break after a bit. A whole lot of pig pen songs, also Black Throated Wind which I'm not too crazy about.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Arms_Akimbo posted:

Before Dark Star Orchestra stole her guitarist when John joined Furthur, Donna and the Tricksters were really solid. You could close your eyes at a show and it sounded like being at a JGB gig in the 80s.

Speaking of Furthur, since there's no dates, Phil is mostly out east from what I've seen, and not being a big Ratdog fan, its gonna be wall to wall Panic gigs for the wife and I this summer. Not complaining at all. We've started talking about Furthur in the past tense, sadly. Is there any word they'll be back on tour in 2015?

Only by firm assertion that Lesh wanting to take a road break doesn't mean the end of Furthur. Who knows, though. Both Phil and Friends and Ratdog are booked at Lock'n so that's probably the closest approximation in the near future.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Yiggy posted:

Both Phil and Friends and Ratdog are booked at Lock'n so that's probably the closest approximation in the near future.

FYI for anyone not keeping an eye on Lock'n, they announced an official Furthur show on their lineup, so if you absolutely need a 2014 fix and didn't make it to Mexico, this is your chance. The rest of the fest is shaping up to be pretty great and I've been a little surprised how much they've kept adding to the lineup after announcing the top of the card. Also, last year was awesome (other than the move in on the first day, but the rest of the event was so spotless that can be forgiven).

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Comb Your Beard posted:

I'm a casual deadhead from my post college years and still listen to some here and there. I don't get why this a big deal:

http://www.gratefulmusic.com/2014/1...k-festival.html

I had plenty of opportunities to catch The Dead in the past few years. Not to mention other different versions and iterations (I thought Phil Lesh + Friends was the best). Honestly having Bruce Hornsby there would be pretty cool though.

Mostly cause Phil's on his last legs and they had to cancel the only Furthur show in 2014 because of Bobby. Also 50th year anniversary. It's last chance to see territory. If you want to see the remaining members of the dead play together, that's probably your only chance. For anyone who doesn't care too much about seeing Phil or Bobby, you'll have plenty of time to scratch the itch with a Joe Russo's Almost Dead show. It's kinda cool though to see Phil and Bobby from time to time, even if the songs are slower.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Rothbury '09 I think was the last time with Billy in the mix and John K on lead. Can't remember if they had Mickey for that or not but I feel like they did. I missed that fest.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Can someone explain to me why Billy hates John K?

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Planet X posted:

Where'd you hear this?

He maligned Furthur and their choice of John K quite a bit over the years. It seems Billy wanted a lead man that didn't hone his chops aping someone else's style, no matter how skilled he may have become at doing it (both in his own right as an improvisational instrumentalist and at mimicking the one style everyone has been aching to replace since its death).

Yiggy fucked around with this message at Mar 28, 2015 around 14:29

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


We listen to old dead sets all day at work. My manager is partial to late 80's shows but all the MIDI stuff kind of grates on me a little. My sweet spot right now is December 1977. 12/26 is great. Cow Palace NYE is one of my favorite live CD releases.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Bookchat. The Grateful Dead Reader is an edited volume of interviews, articles, fan publications and ephemera published by oxford university press. Its a good read. Some of the stuff is chaff but most is good. One of my favorites was an old relix insert called Ouroboros that detailed the financial breakdown circa '77 of the grateful dead operation from touring staff, ticket sales, production and equipment, transportation, etc. A few good Jerry interviews. Some history.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


I've been working in a hippy esque shop for a couple of months now and the only thing they play all day is old grateful dead tapes from an extensive collection that got converted into digital. My increased and prolonged exposure to the dead from all eras has given me the chance to realize that alot of Bobby's songs are p bad.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Come on Billy this one is way worse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MWb7fXOgSY

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Saw tickets for $20 and $10 on lot today. A middle aged dead head complained, "Everyone has tickets, no one wants a miracle, nobody has doses." The lot scene resembled a tailgate at a college football game. Families with their kids, etc. The music was pretty good. The first set felt like Trey's volume knob was down. I don't feel like they let him inhabit the space he should have to properly play Jerry's role. He had a great soaring moment in Viola Lee Blues before set break (when a rainbow broke out behind the stage which was a nice moment). In Set two they certainly cut him loose a bit more. We got a great dark star. They did Drums and an out there space.

Looking forward to tomorrow.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Only caught second set but it seemed like the Bobby Show tonight, lot of his 80's and 90's duds plus a good Stella Blue pulled out of the fire by Trey.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Radio Spiricom posted:

anyway i guess i'm just looking at where to go next? the weirder darker louder and more out there the better, my interest in them mostly comes from my interest in improvised music (jazz/fusion, noise, eai, dj sets) and the psych/krautrock bands that took after them (amon dŁŁl, agitation free, hawkwind, bardo pond, etc)

Mid 70ís Jerry Garcia band
Legion of Mary
The Pizza tapes - Jerry Garcia and David Grisman
Old and in the Way

I spent a summer working at a tie dye shop on Haight and it was run by 80ís nadir touch heads and they listened to a narrow range of shows on repeat. A lot of late 80s and early 90s Bobby heavy dead is just unlistenable in my opinion. I like late 70s til 82ish, thatís where their darker and more out there jamming is. The later stuff is a little more formulaic for obv reasons. I prefer JGB and side project content has a lot of soul. Then just skip to archive.org JRAD if you actually like dancing to the music.

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


JamesKPolk posted:

Speaking of JRAD is it worth seeing them a week before I catch D&C? Been curious and I really wanna hear Rubin and Cherise this year

Also everyone in this thread should know about Relisten

Yes. The jamming is really tight and the speed is nice. I think Meyerís sound and tone are spot on and his chops are sharp but sometimes as a whole itís still just moving a little too languorously for me. Iím going to catch JRAD next late May and Iím excited for a non festival set.

I caught them last at Waterloo the whole set is up on archive. It was transcendently good. I even really loved the Bobby stretches in the middle. Feel like a stranger was so hot. Their Bobby voice hits the right timbres. Russoís flow is just wonderful I love watching his sticks just float around his kit. The audience was really weird and out of it so it had great crowd atmosphere too.

https://archive.org/details/JRAD201...8.akg483.flac16

The old heads I camped with were really stoked on the Rubin and Cherise. I was crying when they moved into Heís gone, it was really smoky and heart wrenching.

quote:

One Set
01 Intro / Not Fade Away Jam @ >
02 Ruben & Cerise # >
03 Feel Like Stranger
04 Help On The Way >
05 Slipknot! % >
06 Throwing Stones ^ >
07 Heís Gone & >
08 Truckiní > The Other One Jam > Truckiní Reprise >
09 The Other One * >
10 Not Fade Away +

Notes

Taper's Note:
We had a very fast, low flying military jet fly over the festival. You can hear the jet at 7:55 into the song Ruben & Cerise (Track 2).

Band Notes:
@ - With a Dark Star Tease (Band)
# - With a Feel Like Stranger Tease (TH)
$ - With a Ruben & Cerise Tease (TH)
% - With Ruben & Cerise Teases (TH, MB, Band) & an I Know You Rider Esque Jam
^ - With an Unknown Tease (TH), multiple Ruben & Cerise Teases (MB, TH, Band), a Slipknot! Tease (Band), and a Feel Like Stranger Tease (TH)
& - With a Black Throated Wind Tease (SM) and a Ruben & Cerise Tease (MB)
* - With an MB & TH Duo Jam
+ - Started at the exact point where the Not Fade Away Jam / Intro opener left off. With a GDTRFB Tease (TH)

And I wonít deny there are some gems in there. I would occasionally walk over to the store iPad to check what show was streaming and some of the 82, 84 and 88 shows surprised me. Brent had some good tunes. I think I just heard Brother Esauís too many times. And itís so long. I donít want to talk about lost sailor either.

I love Dear Mr. Fantasy so Iíll be checking out that uncle johns band you posted now that I finished my relisten of the above set

Yiggy fucked around with this message at Feb 26, 2019 around 08:34

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Maybe theyíre finally cracking down on tapers since itís so easy to save the soundboard and post it for sale on live downloads. That or the larger venue and crowds at shoreline meant the on site staff wasnít taper friendly. No idea but it does seem strange.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."


Final Blog Entry posted:

This thread on reddit seems to indicate I'm just being impatient. As much as I'm sure nugs.net would like it, I can't imagine D&C changing the taping/sharing policy that's been part of the Dead's DNA for forever. And definitely not without a healthy backlash from the fans.

The backlash would be epic.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply