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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I can't seem to preload using my usual Australian connection - unless the option is somewhere I'm missing. Should I be able to, or does it require to use of a VPN or whatever?

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
edit: yeah, it's a US version. Thanks for the info!

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
The Boss feels like he's back to his/her old self. (Very early dialogue) YOU STEAL MY CABINET I'LL RIP YOUR loving HEAD OFF

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Haha, oh my God, in the Matt Miller rescue mission, Kinzie enters release FS3into the text prompt.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
The ending is absolutely perfect. The Touch! Transformers quotes! The Boss keeping his promise to Zinyak! Dance number! Time travel! Credits montage!

I didn't really like SR3, I'll admit that. I felt that the Boss wasn't the sociopath he had been and that the series had gone from down to earth but self-aware to virtually nonsensical. So, I was dubious about SR4 - but it was an incredible ride from start to finish, a real return to SR2's characters and feel. There aren't many games that make you laugh one moment and then make you truly feel a wide range of emotions the next.

There's so much about this I liked. The loyalty missions were superb as were the main plot missions. I can't believe how much fun I had playing through it and just how much Volition worked into the game. Five out of five, as far as I'm concerned. I honestly wish there was more.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I kind of wish that (ending related) we had got the Bollywood dance number but then I remember Gat punching the camera and Kinzie- well, doing what she was doing and I think it's just fine as-is.

Seriously, Kinzie, drat girl. :staredog:

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Cellophane S posted:

It's funny that this is more resonant to me than Mass Effect 3 ever got

Yep. There were more moments that made me feel something about the Saints than there was in Mass Effect 3. The Johnny Gat rowmance, for example, as well as the Boss' 'emotional' response to the crew asking why they should even rescue him.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Samedi -> Ronin -> Brotherhood for escalating violence and drama. And Ronin introduces Vogel in a better way that Brotherhood does, IIRC.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Cleretic posted:

Does the Samedi arc even include Vogel at all? I don't remember him getting involved.

Nah, he doesn't show up at all.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

RBA Starblade posted:

If we're doing ideas for a sequel, how's this: We've got the last of a dying people, most of which are in some sort of stasis on a mothership, a fleet to guard the mothership, and a galaxy to cross to look for a new Homeworld. Only instead of Agnus Dei and somber atmospheric visuals and music we have pimped out spaceships doing drive bys on nebulas. :v:

"Boss, Kharak is burning!"
"gently caress you say!?"

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
So, I can't connect to Steam with Spotflux any more. As an Australian, I can't play SR4 then. I don't know why this has happened - it worked previously.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

One and the Same posted:

I'm dying to see a Knossos portal put up at the collapsed Sol node. :allears:

You'll go through to find either A.) Shivans :supaburn:, or B.) The inhabitants of Earth nuked themselves to death in a bloody scarcity war. :smith:

TomWaitsForNoMan posted:

I think a lot of people, including myself, would like to eventually find out where Bosch went to, and why the Shivans are blowing up stars.

Get the Freespace 2 Source Code Project and try out Blue Planet which is probably the best Freespace 3 you'll ever get. :ssh:

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I'm pretty sure Freespace 3 would be a poor sequel and would ruin a lot of what has made the Freespace series so popular and beloved for all these years.

And Blue Planet is a good sequel anyways.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Cleretic posted:

Oh yeah, you guys should be tod this, at least. You probably already know, but: Volition's 'I feel like classic doesn't quite cover it' space-sim Freespace 2 is now on Steam. Five bucks for the next thirty hours or so, then it goes up to ten. It apparently still needs FSO to run on modern machines, probalby because it's one of those 'zombie games' that needs patches nobody can actually give it , but to be honest you should be getting FSO for it anyway.

It runs fine on modern machines, providing you have the registry entries from an existing Freespace 2 install. But, yeah, to be completely honest FSO is absolutely incredible and you should get it regardless.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I like SR2 the most because while it's absurd it wasn't completely LOL WACKY as SR3 was. SR4 reigned it in a bit and was still fantastic but, yeah...

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Vanderdeath posted:

Man, I'm one of those "I miss SR2 and the series being less wacky" dudes and even I think this trailer was wonderful.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Also, this reminds me that I got a new computer and therefore need to replay SR4 in preparation.

:getin:

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I can't say I'm excited about Saints' Roverwatch.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Pyroxene Stigma posted:

Saints Row 4 was so loving great as an ending. I'll play anything these guys make.

I need to go back and play Descent and Freespace, I have really vague childhood memories of those games being the coolest goddamn thing.

Freespace 2 is still - somehow, impossibly - the king of sci-fi flight sims. If you do go back and play it (it's on Steam, and cheap!) be sure to look into the Freespace 2 Upgrade Project where some amazing people have brought the graphics up to 2016 levels.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Cleretic posted:

I'm pretty sure that's because, after Freespace 2, everyone just packed up and left the genre. Stuff like the X series continued on, but they're not really sci-fi flight sims so much as economy simulators in spaceships.

Freespace 2 may well have been so good that it killed its genre.

It kind of did, in a way.

It sold badly because it wasn't marketed at all. It, hot on the heels of a lot of uninspired, boring or derivative flight sims, could be seen as the final nail in the coffin.

The only flight sim I can think of that came out after and was in any way interesting was Tachyon: The Fringe in 2000. But I remember hearing that Tachyon was a massively cut down version of what it was supposed to be. Maybe Starshatter: The Gathering Storm in 2004, with its non-linear campaign structure which I always found interesting even though the gameplay wasn't so hot. X-Wing Alliance came out in the same year as FS2 and, while maybe the best of them since Tie Fighter, was a bit clunky and absolutely too similar to the previous games in the series.

FS2 feels like the only sci-fi space sim that truly tried to bring new things to the genre and, even to this day, feels like the last major release.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
The Gat fandom comes from SR2 where he's just fantastic whenever he shows up, and then how badly the character was handled in SR3. I don't know a single person who didn't think that Gat was coming back after that so-typical 'death offscreen' moment.

Then he never did in SR3. It's really not surprising that people go mad for him. It would have been like if Garrus died in the first five seconds of Mass Effect 2 and it was done off-screen and cheaply.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Tiggum posted:

There are some issues you could bring up about 2 (like how some characters are mysteriously absent from some plotlines to account for the fact that you might play them in an order that would make it impossible for them to be there) but if you think there aren't issues with the story in SR3 then I've got to wonder if you even played it. Even outside of the bit where Gat dies being stupidly ambiguous, there are plenty of other problems. Like characters who aren't developed or just don't really seem to have a reason for existing; what is the point of Angel? You don't need him to give you a reason to fight Killbane, you don't need his help to fight Killbane, he's just there. Or Oleg? He's got some funny scenes, but what's his role in the story? You find out that the bad guys are using him to make brutes, you rescue him, and then he just hangs around for the rest of the game and the bad guys still send brutes after you, so I guess they didn't need him either.

There's not even really a central conflict, just a bunch of different stuff that happens. First you've got Loren as the main antagonist, and Matt as his actually competent lieutenant, but Loren dies early on and Matt is defeated about half way through, so then instead of the competent villains from the start of the game you've got the ridiculous wrestler who kills his own allies for no reason - and it's not really clear what kind of threat he could pose to you if Loren and Matt were so easily defeated. And then you get STAG introduced as a sort of unrelated side plot that becomes the main plot, but you can basically choose to ignore them and go after Killbane again (after you already defeated him) instead. And there's the zombie outbreak that doesn't have anything to do with any of that other stuff, and the DeWynters who seem like they should be major antagonists but never are.

Also, the ending choice.

SR3 strikes me as a game with a lot of executive meddling - kill someone, introduce these other wacky characters, put in some zombies, etc.

SR2 had this exaggerated satire feel sort of going for it. SR3 went full on ridiculous - with both good and part points. SR4 found a nice middle between SR2 and SR3.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Cleretic posted:

So you won't be surprised to hear that it got exactly that. It was THQ's last hope (if they even had one at that point), so they intruded when they probably shouldn't have in efforts to make the game more likely to appeal to mass crowds. That meant toning down a lot of big things that would've been seen as polarizing. I remember a few things noted as being cut for that reason:

-Instead of just bombing a bridge funeral, Killbane set off a dirty nuke in Stilwater. Which was why so few Stilwater characters were in the game; they were all planned to be SUPER dead.
-Gat was always planned to die, but they planned for it to be a much bigger and undeniable event that he did. He was going to die on screen in a pretty graphic firefight...
-...and Shaundi was going to spend most of the game grappling with survivor's guilt over that fact. You know her recruitment mission in SRIV? That was basically a compressed version of what they had planned for her during all of 3.
-Not that their meddling was all about removing the serious elements, either, because they also nixed a We Are The World-style charity single by the Saints to raise money for Stilwater in the wake of Killbane's attack. I vaguely recall a SaintCon also being involved, but I might be wrong.

There's definitely others too, this is just what I remember. Knowing THQ and their ideas on what Saints Row should have been, they were probably also responsible for Zimos, and Sasha Grey's presence as a voice actor. I'm pretty okay with Sasha, but I think you'll struggle to find anyone who thinks Zimos was a good and well-realized idea.

I have no idea on whether they were involved on any level in what I think was the most disappointing miss from SR3, Killbane's original casting: Macho Man Randy Savage.

I knew that first point but, ah, that all makes a lot of sense!

The thing that gets me about SR3 is how it feels almost like a parody of SR2.

SR2 is this game that combines incredible darkness with over the top insanity. It came out about six months after GTA4 which, to this day, is widely derided for doing a 'Woe is me, I hate killing' story in a game where there's little consequence to the violence. In SR2, you play the closest you'll ever get to a sociopathic spree killer. It was a game that put you in the shoes of a character who would embrace that chaos. It's a story where you were playing a bad guy or girl but it was a world where your opponents were just as bad, if not worse. It's a story of escalation (from Samedi to Ultor) and in how the Boss reacts to everything around him. You killed Carlos, Maero? Well, I'll make you kill your own girlfriend.

As an aside, I love how this theme of violence begets violence returns in SR3 if you make the ending choice to kill Killbane. The way it culminates in the Boss getting everything he's wanted but having lost everything to get there was surprisingly poignant. Sucks that it didn't really amount to anything, though. But it was nice.

It had a bit of a wink and nudge approach to pop culture (the pirates and ninjas in Fuzz) but it was never out-and-out blatant about it like SR3 was. SR2 worked as well as it did because the hyper-exaggerated violence was sit in this grounded world of crime and corruption (SR2 also had really, really good cutscenes, too). It wasn't a world where Genki existed.

SR3 is, to me, a weird aberration. Unfortunately, it's one that set the tone of the series going forwards. In a way, I like the way the SR series embraced everything crazy and ended with the Saints taking over an alien Empire and discovering time travel. But I still kind of wonder how things might have gone had the series hewed more closely to the ideas and themes of SR2.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

The Cheshire Cat posted:

I'd love to see a remade SR1 with female protagonist options and dialog for the main character (besides the like, 3 lines he gets in the original game). I don't know if I really want to see a remastered SR2 though since they'd probably have to re-record all the dialog which would lead to VA changes for at least a few characters.

Yeah. And, to be perfectly honest, Mr. Sheffield shouldn't be replaced. Robin Atkin Downes did great work but, poo poo, it's Mr Sheffield as a crime boss - you can't replace that!

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Cythereal posted:

I finished watching the archived LPs of Saint's Row 1 and 2 after enjoying 4. Some thoughts:

1. Holy poo poo I did not recognize old Pierce. People rag a lot on Shaundi's change between 2 and 3, but Pierce went through an equally big shift.

2. Uh... Was that genuine magic going on with Mr. Sunshine? The Sons of Samedi seemed like the most down to earth gang until the fight with Sunshine, but I am now struck by the idea of Saint's Row 5 featuring the gang getting lost in time and space and crash-landing in a fantasy setting with magic and elves and whatnot.

3. Did the LP skip it, or did the Boss never go after Julius Little? I don't remember him ever popping up in the SR2 LP.

4. I'm not as dismayed by the Boss's darker turn in SR2 as some people. In my read, the Boss (and Johnny Gat) did some truly nasty things, mainly during the Brotherhood arc but also how they killed Shogo, but every time they did something nasty it was because their enemy made things personal first. Ultor and the Sons all stay professional and don't let things get personal, and the Boss doesn't get nasty with them. Hit the Boss and she'll hit back, but kill or torture her friends or seriously wound her pride and there's a nasty streak of brutality and cruelty to her. This holds up with my take on her character in 3 and 4 as well.

Does the Boss shoot Vogel in the face when he's asking to negotiate? And executes the leader of the Sons of Samedi? And leaves Mister Sunshine's body to be packaged into meat?

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Instant Sunrise posted:

When I first played through SR2, I ended up not starting the Brotherhood story until after I had finished the Sons of Samedi and The Ronin. So when I met with Maero the first time, I already owned over half of Stilwater and in light of that I thought the Boss' reaction to Maero's 20% offer was pretty justified. My boss had already done Maero's dirty work for him and now he wants to swoop in and take over most of the territory she had won? I don't think so.

SR2 always seemed to me to have a pretty set in stone progression.

Samedi -> Ronin -> Brotherhood -> Ultor.

You go from busting some drug dealers, taking on the Yakuza and then defending your turf. There's also a clear pattern of escalation from Samedi through to Ultor.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Tommy Wisseau, of course. What is wrong with you all?

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

The chorus is catchy but he tells the most boring lovely story. Rhyme/flow is a D- at best

dang it get out of the thread zinyak

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
And Agents of Mayhem looks really bad.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Megazver posted:

I played a few hours of 3 today after beating 2 last week and hooboy y'all got some major rose-tint related to 2. :)

New Agents of Mayhem trailer, tho:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFJYqkmEvIg

the danger zone meme xd

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
SR2 goofy was the boss going to play skee ball and just hurling the balls at the target, not caring or noticing that they bounced off in all directions. SR2 goofy was Johnny Gat arguing about the statute of limitations for murder. SR2 goofy was a yakuza motorcycle gang plot, katanas and all, which still ended in an rear end in a top hat being buried alive.

SR3 goofy was le wacky zombie adult swim memes XD.

SR4 brought it back to a nice middle ground.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Dr. Abysmal posted:

Agents of Mayhem comes out in a couple of weeks, I feel like there's no hype behind it at all.

That's because it looks bad.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I'd also wager that no one has any real idea of what Agents of Mayhem is.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
It feels like it should be a fun co-op game with such a wild cast of characters... but it's single-player only.

It just feels like a total mess.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Bogart posted:

AoM spoilers: You're half right. It's revealed that the boss was split into three: their id, ego, and superego. Their id was reconstituted into the villain of AoM, Doctor Babylon, who just wants destruction, and their superego into Perephone Brimstone. At the end, the Mayhem crew sets out to find the Boss' ego and reform them into the true Boss.

is this legit

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
My thoughts on AoM.

1. It was always kind of unclear what the game was.
2. It felt derivative, whether this is true or not.
3. It didn't have co-op despite sounding like a perfect co-op game.
4. No character creation/customisation.
5. It was a weird semi-sequel.

It kind of got rid of everything that Saints Row was known for and replaced it with 'the things gamers like these days'. Volition games always felt like they had a distinct flavor, whether it was Freespace's gritty cog-in-the-machine war drama, Saints Row's hyper-violent insanity, etc. AoM was just like 'It's an 80s parody game, haha!' which isn't exactly novel or interesting. TBQH, from the very first we saw of it, it would've had to do a lot to make me buy it. It felt like a big misstep and even watching the cutscenes on Youtube hasn't endeared me to it.

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Wasn't there some statistic that like 90% of players just used the default dude and never customized anything? I find that strange when a massive criticism of AoM is that you can't make your own dude. That's why I didn't get it, and that's why my long-time Saints Row fan buddy didn't get it. It just seems like a lot of the criticisms of the game (basically missing features from previous games) would not matter to Joe Average who isn't invested in the series, or even realizes the series are connected.

Gamers are a weird bunch. There's a ton who never customise just as there's a ton who never get past the first achievement signpost.

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