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Vertical Lime
Dec 11, 2004



The Prisoner posted:

We were talking about this in the other Sports Journalism thread a few weeks ago and someone (sorry, I can't remember who) brought up that in the ESPN oral history book people in the Post newsroom couldn't tell the difference between early PTI and actual lunchroom arguments Wilbon and Kornheiser were having. Well, except for the lack of swearing.

Yeah, that was me. I don't blame Tony for thinking the show wouldn't work, but then again, that's his gimmick.

chunkles posted:

Is this the thread where we bitch about CSN Houston cause I'm gonna make myself right at home.

We could talk about the future of regional sports networks and the implications of that future for the profitability of MLB/NBA teams in general. But really I just want to watch my loving Rockets on TV.

This probably all boils down to carriage fees. Channel wants x amount per subscriber, provider thinks it's too high. Ever since channels like YES and the Big 10 Network came around it's just gotten ridiculous. For example, take a look at how the Dodgers can pay for all that talent because of their upcoming channel.

e: I mentioned in the other thread Fox Sports 1 might have gotten trouble being on DirecTv/Dish/Time Warner because of the difference in proposed carriage fees. For once, Fox actually caved in. That never happens.

Vertical Lime fucked around with this message at Aug 19, 2013 around 14:52

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Splat
Aug 22, 2002


I thought this was a decent way to handle launch criticism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5wDEuOi7mo

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


Vertical Lime posted:

For example, take a look at how the Dodgers can pay for all that talent because of their upcoming channel.

For the record, the Dodgers are getting a bunch of money from Time-Warner. What Time-Warner is getting is carrying the channel on their cable network without carriage fees because it's on their channel. The onus is on Time-Warner to try and convince other carriers in the wiiiiiiiiiide blackout map to carry the channel at a rate that could somehow make their money back eventually. I figured it would be probably about $7/year per subscriber like ESPN given that so many people live within the team's blackout zone, but I've heard it may actually be $5 a month. Good luck with that.

It's probable TWC are going to lose money on the whole thing. But the Dodgers got their guaranteed money so they won't mind.

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER


Splat posted:

I thought this was a decent way to handle launch criticism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5wDEuOi7mo

I loving lost it at the fedora line

sildenafil
Dec 17, 2004

They're just jealous.


Splat posted:

I thought this was a decent way to handle launch criticism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5wDEuOi7mo

So who here runs the @awfulannouncing account?

Crion
Sep 30, 2004
baseball.

sildenafil posted:

So who here runs the @awfulannouncing account?

http://www.awfulannouncing.com/

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



I have kind of a controversial opinion.

I think Jon Gruden can be a good color guy, I just don't think he should be doing the NFL.

To me, he'd be way better in the booth doing College Games.

He reminds me of Dick Vermiel, who was tremendous in that role.

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

Gruden has actually grown on me over the years. I mean, it's easy to mock him for "THIS GUY" and "BANANA 3" and poo poo, but whatever. Madden had dumb catch-phrases too, and everyone loves him. I think it's his unabashed passion for the game that really puts him above the likes of Simms and Dierdorf, who sound like they're just going through the motions.

Of course, it helps that he has Tirico, who is a true professional and doesn't get enough love around these parts. Tirico can go from football to basketball to tennis to golf without missing a beat. He also had the unenviable task of keeping Gruden, Jaws and Kornheiser on the rails, which I think he handled about as well as he could.

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009




Gary Payton on the Fox Sports Live panel basically has no redeeming value.

And shouldn't there be a baseball person on the panel?

Pat Clements
Feb 10, 2008


Benne posted:

Gruden has actually grown on me over the years. I mean, it's easy to mock him for "THIS GUY" and "BANANA 3" and poo poo, but whatever. Madden had dumb catch-phrases too, and everyone loves him. I think it's his unabashed passion for the game that really puts him above the likes of Simms and Dierdorf, who sound like they're just going through the motions.

Of course, it helps that he has Tirico, who is a true professional and doesn't get enough love around these parts. Tirico can go from football to basketball to tennis to golf without missing a beat. He also had the unenviable task of keeping Gruden, Jaws and Kornheiser on the rails, which I think he handled about as well as he could.
Tirico is great and IIRC the ESPN book is full of people going "holy poo poo Mike Tirico is the most consummate professional the company has ever had. And he somehow manages to get along with everyone!"

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


Total pro aside from all those female coworkers he sexually harassed, yes.

sba
Jul 9, 2001

bae

the ESPN book is great if you haven't read it

Quest For Glory II
Dec 17, 2003



ESPN has a ton of great play by play guys that puts the national networks to shame. It's one of their few bright spots. From Tirico to Pasch to McDonough to Breen to Nessler to Tessitore to Darke. I still think they're missing a great baseball voice (but so are most teams in baseball), but every other national sport has got A-quality people calling the action.

COLOR COMMENTATORS, on the other hand, yikes. I dont know how they can be so good at finding people to call the games and so bad at finding people to analyze them. There's nothing pleasant beyond the A teams (Gruden, Herbstreit). It's basically a determination of how much you can tolerate each one on an individual basis. I still don't understand what qualifications Matt Millen has for analyzing college football, or why anyone would put a microphone in front of Rick Sutcliffe.

ElwoodCuse
Jan 11, 2004

we're puttin' the band back together

sba posted:

the ESPN book is great if you haven't read it

and the older one too (ESPN The Uncensored History)

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

Do you not want your hotdog?
(pause)
I'll keep it for you.
(pause)
I thought you were going to leave me.

I kinda enjoy most bad announcers. I find Joe Buck's pure contempt endearing. Paul Steigerwald I used to hate until this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2om0LsSDk8 and now I can't help but like him. Bob Errey is great because he's insane.

I don't know if Mark Grace and Thom Brennaman are still involved with baseball but I used to find them amusing because they always seemed completely shocked by impressive athletic feats. Like a guy with a good fastball would just completely blow the minds of Mark Grace and Brennaman. I don't know why that amused so, but it did. The Colorado Avalanche announcers, whose names escape me, have a similar thing going on where any time a good play is made by either team they sound like a couple of dudes who are being told a mind blowing fact.

I think I enjoy really terrible announcers about as much as I enjoy really good ones. It's strange. I guess I'm easily amused.

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

ESPN used to have a great baseball voice in Jon Miller. Too bad they wasted that by sticking him with Joe Morgan and quietly dumping him instead of giving him a decent color guy to work with.

BIZORT
Jan 24, 2003



I don't understand the appeal of those PTI and Around the Horn shows. Sports talk radio is boring and all those shows are is a visual representation of that sort of media, which is twice as boring. Of all of the crap ESPN puts out, I think those types of shows are the worst and most dangerous because they turn journalists (well, sports journalists) into TV personalities. No one ever heard of Skip Bayless before ESPN let him sit on TV and yell. It's obnoxious programming and I don't understand how people enjoy it.

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER


Josh Lyman posted:

Gary Payton on the Fox Sports Live panel basically has no redeeming value.

And shouldn't there be a baseball person on the panel?

They had Gabe Kapler on there last night and he was surprisingly great in that role. Gary Payton is loving terrible though.

warheadr
Jul 6, 2005


Am I remembering wrong or didn't the latest ESPN book have a couple people talking a good bit about what an rear end in a top hat Tirico was toward Kornheiser and really contributed heavily to Tony's stint on MNF not working at all? If Tirico is the one I'm thinking of he really did come across as a non-professional douche in that regard.

Also ESPN is kinda terrible these days but I understand why so many people still like it. Personally I stopped watching SportsCenter and those "debate" shows of theirs a couple months ago and haven't missed it at all. Using ESPN and its considerable resources and still great live event coverage solely to watch games and get the occasional big news tidbits is definitely the way to go, in my opinion.

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER


warheadr posted:

Am I remembering wrong or didn't the latest ESPN book have a couple people talking a good bit about what an rear end in a top hat Tirico was toward Kornheiser and really contributed heavily to Tony's stint on MNF not working at all? If Tirico is the one I'm thinking of he really did come across as a non-professional douche in that regard.

Also ESPN is kinda terrible these days but I understand why so many people still like it. Personally I stopped watching SportsCenter and those "debate" shows of theirs a couple months ago and haven't missed it at all. Using ESPN and its considerable resources and still great live event coverage solely to watch games and get the occasional big news tidbits is definitely the way to go, in my opinion.


He basically no-sold everything Tony did and made it awkward as poo poo to get him out of the booth. Simmons was more upset about it than anyone else IIRC.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


Quest For Glory II posted:

COLOR COMMENTATORS, on the other hand, yikes. I dont know how they can be so good at finding people to call the games and so bad at finding people to analyze them. There's nothing pleasant beyond the A teams (Gruden, Herbstreit).

I think Chris Speilman is best color guy in any sport. They have some good basketball guys too, most notably Bilas.

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


MourningView posted:

I think Chris Speilman is best color guy in any sport. They have some good basketball guys too, most notably Bilas.

The best basketball analyst is Bill Walton, especially for international events. His work on the FIBA Americas championships was sublime.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


Yeah Walton now that he's in full on don't give a gently caress mode is really funny. I liked when they let him do some Pac-12 games this year.

Quest For Glory II
Dec 17, 2003



Walton is amazing, and Spielman is quite good now that he's back with McDonough (McDonough/Millen was a torturous combo for years). I also don't necessarily have a problem with Hershisher. But the depth ESPN has at color commentator is far thinner than at play by play. They've also lost some people recently, like I believe Bill Raftery is at FOX now calling games with Gus Johnson this upcoming year.

warheadr posted:

Am I remembering wrong or didn't the latest ESPN book have a couple people talking a good bit about what an rear end in a top hat Tirico was toward Kornheiser and really contributed heavily to Tony's stint on MNF not working at all? If Tirico is the one I'm thinking of he really did come across as a non-professional douche in that regard.
I could be wrong but I think Kornheiser's bizarre racist joke on Hispanic Heritage Night, which probably is the worst time to make a racist joke, played a role in his contract not being extended. It was only a one year contract, and I think Tony has said in interviews that he enjoyed doing MNF but the hours were not fun for him and he hates flying and travelling in general.

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009




BIZORT posted:

I don't understand the appeal of those PTI and Around the Horn shows. Sports talk radio is boring and all those shows are is a visual representation of that sort of media, which is twice as boring. Of all of the crap ESPN puts out, I think those types of shows are the worst and most dangerous because they turn journalists (well, sports journalists) into TV personalities. No one ever heard of Skip Bayless before ESPN let him sit on TV and yell. It's obnoxious programming and I don't understand how people enjoy it.
Woah now, let's not compare Skip Bayless to Around the Horn, and certainly not to PTI.

Anals of History
Jul 29, 2003



BIZORT posted:

I don't understand the appeal of those PTI and Around the Horn shows. Sports talk radio is boring and all those shows are is a visual representation of that sort of media, which is twice as boring. Of all of the crap ESPN puts out, I think those types of shows are the worst and most dangerous because they turn journalists (well, sports journalists) into TV personalities. No one ever heard of Skip Bayless before ESPN let him sit on TV and yell. It's obnoxious programming and I don't understand how people enjoy it.

I listen to the podcasts because it's a relatively quick way to catch up on sports during chores, and I find the obnoxiousness a little endearing. They're also somewhat more self-conscious and honest about their role as entertainers than the rest of ESPN's programming. I'll take Woody Paige cramming three awful puns into one sentence over Trent Dilfer delivering a report like he's coming down from Mount Sinai.

The worst thing I see coming out of the talking head shows is that they've started railing against "the narrative" which is almost always being developed and pushed by ESPN itself. That ESPN has found success in manufacturing stories is depressing enough without seeing them go back for second- and third-order controversy.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



What's SAS consensus on Little League World Series coverage?

I personally find it really obnoxious and annoying.

I recall once being really annoyed it once overshadowed the opening week of college football once.

Fauxhawk Express
Oct 28, 2007

I'M THE LORD JESUS CHRIST


FuzzySkinner posted:

What's SAS consensus on Little League World Series coverage?

I personally find it really obnoxious and annoying.

I recall once being really annoyed it once overshadowed the opening week of college football once.

If Gary Thorne is calling it, I am watching it no matter what sport it is.

Combo
Aug 18, 2003



BIZORT posted:

I don't understand the appeal of those PTI and Around the Horn shows. Sports talk radio is boring and all those shows are is a visual representation of that sort of media, which is twice as boring. Of all of the crap ESPN puts out, I think those types of shows are the worst and most dangerous because they turn journalists (well, sports journalists) into TV personalities. No one ever heard of Skip Bayless before ESPN let him sit on TV and yell. It's obnoxious programming and I don't understand how people enjoy it.

I'm with you...I can't stomach watching those shows. The person responsible for putting Jay Marriotti/Skip Bayless/Stephen A. Smith on TV for any considerable amount of time should waterboarded and then burned to death.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


FuzzySkinner posted:

What's SAS consensus on Little League World Series coverage?

I personally find it really obnoxious and annoying.

I recall once being really annoyed it once overshadowed the opening week of college football once.

It's really weird.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?


MourningView posted:

That show was the weirdest loving thing when it first started out and it was just Dan and his dad who barely watched sports or understood what was going on hanging out in his kitchen.
I can't speak for DLHQ since I haven't really watched it, but his Miami-area radio show is great.

Ribsauce
Jul 29, 2006

Blacks in the back.


FuzzySkinner posted:

What's SAS consensus on Little League World Series coverage?

I don't think 13 year olds should be playing a highly televised baseball tournament and I find it borderline creepy it is broadcast.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003



FuzzySkinner posted:

What's SAS consensus on Little League World Series coverage?

I personally find it really obnoxious and annoying.

I recall once being really annoyed it once overshadowed the opening week of college football once.
I find it borderline creepy.

EDIT: How the hell did I get beaten with the exact same words

Combo
Aug 18, 2003



I'm torn with the LLWS...the amount of coverage it gets is weird, but at the same time I do enjoy watching it.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003



Combo posted:

I'm torn with the LLWS...the amount of coverage it gets is weird, but at the same time I do enjoy watching it.
It's fun to watch, but ESPN takes it way too seriously, and there is no need to broadcast regionals or any games other than the ones in the LLWS itself.

shyduck
Oct 3, 2003



What else is ESPN gonna broadcast in July/August though? There's only so many studio shows they can repeat with the same garbage.

Combo
Aug 18, 2003



I think the weirdest part is putting the kids favorite music/food/athlete/whatever up, I don't know why I find it so odd but I do.

shyduck
Oct 3, 2003



It's a big deal to these kids. I say let them have their 15 minutes.

BasicFunk
Feb 26, 2011

How's your Funkentelechy?


I think I'm bothered less by their LLWS coverage than I am when they start covering high school football and basketball. I can't really explain why, but ESPN covering high school sports bothers the hell out of me.

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Pat Clements
Feb 10, 2008


Combo posted:

I think the weirdest part is putting the kids favorite music/food/athlete/whatever up, I don't know why I find it so odd but I do.
I would honestly be entertained if broadcasts started putting these up along with batter stats during extra inning MLB games.

Well, at least until they actually start doing it and you see "Favorite Band: Nickelback" or some poo poo 18 times in a row.

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