Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Crosby B. Alfred
May 20, 2006


DragonReach posted:

Have another job offer in hand for more money, and then explain that your current responsibilities exceed your compensation. Be ready to walk.

Yup. I've a potential job - it slightly less pay but I'd be willing to leave as much as I don't want to.

Misogynist posted:

This is completely circumstantial and depends on things like your importance within the organization, your relationship with your boss, and the reason(s) you're asking for a raise. Give us some better background, and maybe we can help you more. :)

I work as a Production Support Enginner

We're people that do all the day-to-day Application Tasks for systems that provision everything from T1/T3 Lines to OC-192 circuits. A lot of the work involves telling developers (they know how to code but not the program) what to do and making sure it's done right. Going to DBA's and Network Engineers for problems those that we can't fix ourselves. Tailing log files, updates parts of the database that don't get updating because the application doesn't work right, reading java logs, getting pages 2am because a process for provisioning is down, etc

Right now, our project is expanding and I'm responsible for more applications. I would think that I would be getting a raise but according to management we are :airquote:underutitilized:airquote: but I see this nothing to be but bullshit.

When we first started we didn't really know we'd even be working on Enterprise Circuit Provisioning - management didn't either and this ended up with me being underpaid by at least $5k.

My main boss is without a doubt satisfied with my performance, my technical lead likes me as well. I know there are some managers I don't see eye-to-eye with but we still get along so I think I have the best chance as of any. It's going to really put them in a huge-bind to find me a replacement while they're expanding the project but the window for me to jump ship is quickly closing and I need to do it soon.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

deedee megadoodoo
Sep 28, 2000
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I, I took the one to Flavortown, and that has made all the difference.




DGK2000 posted:

So I was recently hired by a company as an Information Systems Analyst. I am literally the only IT person in the company, and as such I travel the entire county supporting numerous sites. I get paid mileage and 17.50/hour. Does this seem right?

It depends where you live. I took a job making $15/hour right out of college. It was a lot of driving to different sites and end-user support. I stayed there for 2 years, just long enough to get some real world experience.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget

Grimey Drawer

DGK2000 posted:

So I was recently hired by a company as an Information Systems Analyst. I am literally the only IT person in the company, and as such I travel the entire county supporting numerous sites. I get paid mileage and 17.50/hour. Does this seem right?
What size is the company?

barnold
Dec 16, 2011


what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot


Docjowles posted:

Goondolences. Sorry, maybe you're more entry level than I was assuming. I've been there too and when I asked for a similar minimum wage bump was basically told to get hosed, so that colors my perception. Maybe your employer is less of a shitlord than some in my past. What's your job title and usual duties? $10 an hour seems super low but maybe not if you're grinding it out at Geek Squad or something.

I'm an "EasyTech Associate in Training". EasyTech is Staple's higher end version of Geek Squad, basically. I'm the youngest tech they've ever hired, and I believe the fact that I'm under 18 and not yet able to perform a handful of the Resident Tech's duties such as pickups, deliveries, and on-site services contributes something to my low pay. Right now, I mainly intake computers, begin service on them, and occasionally answer customer's questions about computer stuff in the store.

joe944
Jan 31, 2004

What does not destroy me makes me stronger.


If you're making that much at under 18 I wouldn't worry too much about it. You're at a great stage in life to pick up skills and experience, and make a lot more than any of your friends will be in a very short amount of time.

Paladine_PSoT
Jan 2, 2010

If you have a problem Yo, I'll solve it



FFStudios posted:

I'm an "EasyTech Associate in Training". EasyTech is Staple's higher end version of Geek Squad, basically. I'm the youngest tech they've ever hired, and I believe the fact that I'm under 18 and not yet able to perform a handful of the Resident Tech's duties such as pickups, deliveries, and on-site services contributes something to my low pay. Right now, I mainly intake computers, begin service on them, and occasionally answer customer's questions about computer stuff in the store.

If you're under 18, don't worry too much about it. If minimum wage goes up, it may be worth asking your boss for an equivalent raise, but don't get too upset if it's no, because bix box stores like staples exist to maximize profits which they do by minimizing costs such as labor. Take it as good hands on break fix training, and buy in to their ticketing process so you get experience there. That's real world experience that will matter later.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

adorai posted:

What size is the company?

It's a school system in California. So, a couple hundred.

PUBLIC TOILET
Jun 13, 2009



HatfulOfHollow posted:

It depends where you live. I took a job making $15/hour right out of college. It was a lot of driving to different sites and end-user support. I stayed there for 2 years, just long enough to get some real world experience.

Congrats, it sounds like you did exactly what I recommend others fresh from college do in the IT field. In my area it seems like the majority of college grads who want a local IT job will start in the range of $15-18 per hour. This is essentially what happened to the female IT worker I had trained before I left my previous job. I told her before I left to not spend more than two years in that job and to look elsewhere after that. She only stayed around six months because she had plans of moving out of state. I never told my former boss about it and neither did she. Imagine the surprise on his face.

barnold
Dec 16, 2011


what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot


Paladine_PSoT posted:

If you're under 18, don't worry too much about it. If minimum wage goes up, it may be worth asking your boss for an equivalent raise, but don't get too upset if it's no, because bix box stores like staples exist to maximize profits which they do by minimizing costs such as labor. Take it as good hands on break fix training, and buy in to their ticketing process so you get experience there. That's real world experience that will matter later.

This is what I originally thought, but I figured it was worth it to ask because I know nothing about this kind of stuff. I figured that if anything, it would be decent real world experience.

QuiteEasilyDone
Jul 1, 2010

Won't you play with me?


I'm updating my resume now because with my current employer, I'm a part of the Redundant Array of Inexpensive Interns and will always be a part of the $10/hour initial rate despite the alleged review of my contract that will be occuring... almost two months ago now.

I figured I'd see if there's anything else worthwhile with my very tII support skillset

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.


HatfulOfHollow posted:

It depends where you live. I took a job making $15/hour right out of college. It was a lot of driving to different sites and end-user support. I stayed there for 2 years, just long enough to get some real world experience.
Yeah, being tremendously underpaid for entry-level positions in most vocations seems to be the norm. poo poo, even physicians do residencies for like $40k/year. This doesn't mean this has to be you there's plenty of ways to make money but it's not uncommon or even especially exploitative.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.


Tab8715 posted:

Yup. I've a potential job - it slightly less pay but I'd be willing to leave as much as I don't want to.
I don't get it. Why are you looking to leave for less pay if you don't get a raise? Am I misreading?

Tab8715 posted:

I work as a Production Support Enginner

We're people that do all the day-to-day Application Tasks for systems that provision everything from T1/T3 Lines to OC-192 circuits. A lot of the work involves telling developers (they know how to code but not the program) what to do and making sure it's done right. Going to DBA's and Network Engineers for problems those that we can't fix ourselves. Tailing log files, updates parts of the database that don't get updating because the application doesn't work right, reading java logs, getting pages 2am because a process for provisioning is down, etc

Right now, our project is expanding and I'm responsible for more applications. I would think that I would be getting a raise but according to management we are :airquote:underutitilized:airquote: but I see this nothing to be but bullshit.

When we first started we didn't really know we'd even be working on Enterprise Circuit Provisioning - management didn't either and this ended up with me being underpaid by at least $5k.

My main boss is without a doubt satisfied with my performance, my technical lead likes me as well. I know there are some managers I don't see eye-to-eye with but we still get along so I think I have the best chance as of any. It's going to really put them in a huge-bind to find me a replacement while they're expanding the project but the window for me to jump ship is quickly closing and I need to do it soon.
It's not your job to make sure you aren't underutilized, and any rationalization along these lines is them trying to get labor for free. You're an employee on a salary, and you make money for the time you're on the clock, not the time they think they need you working on something. This is how employment works. If they don't grasp this very simple concept, get the gently caress out, because nothing else is likely to be any better with the way they approach labor.

Feel out the market, and honestly appraise your own skills. If you think you can make a better go of it somewhere else, get in there and ask for what you're owed. The worst that can happen is that you work someplace that pays you better.

Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Aug 26, 2013

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009



FFStudios posted:

This is what I originally thought, but I figured it was worth it to ask because I know nothing about this kind of stuff. I figured that if anything, it would be decent real world experience.

Yeah, sorry I definitely misread the situation. Did not expect you to still be in your teens :) I support what the others have said in that case, go ahead and ask for the raise but don't be shocked if it's shot down. Just don't get stuck in the rut of working that type of job forever. It's not a HUGE leap from what you're doing right now to entry level helldesk work and that could easily be a 50%++ pay increase once you're ready to move on.

Crosby B. Alfred
May 20, 2006


Misogynist posted:

I don't get it. Why are you looking to leave for less pay if you don't get a raise? Am I misreading?

No, it's slightly less pay but there's no 24x7 on-call and there is a enormous reduction in job-stress and work in general.

It's a fair trade.

Misogynist posted:

It's not your job to make sure you aren't underutilized, and any rationalization along these lines is them trying to get labor for free. You're an employee on a salary, and you make money for the time you're on the clock, not the time they think they need you working on something. This is how employment works. If they don't grasp this very simple concept, get the gently caress out, because nothing else is likely to be any better with the way they approach labor.

Feel out the market, and honestly appraise your own skills. If you think you can make a better go of it somewhere else, get in there and ask for what you're owed. The worst that can happen is that you work someplace that pays you better.

Yea, I would think more responsibility would incur a increase in salary but I guess not with my current employeer. It's just that I am going to miss a lot of my co-workers - it was such a fun gig :smith:

Crosby B. Alfred fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Aug 26, 2013

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

My girlfriend is a Java contractor at an insurance company. She started in May and her contract was for 1 year. She was just notified that her contract has been extended until the end of 2014. Should she discuss a raise at the end of the 1 year (next May)? I've never worked contract so I'm not sure what to tell her.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Ursine Asylum posted:

Because the job title implies what the company is willing to pay you, generally based on the average of {job title} in the area. If company A wants to hire you as a "Senior Systems Engineer" and company B wants to hire you as "Computer Assistant II", it can end up being pretty telling exactly what your potential for advancement in the company is, not to mention the respect for your work you'll get when you're there.

It's a different title on a contract, which implies same job, same pay, same everything but title for a non-salaried, non-FTE position.

Rhymenoserous
May 23, 2008


Tab8715 posted:

Yea, I would think more responsibility would incur a increase in salary but I guess not with my current employeer. It's just that I am going to miss a lot of my co-workers - it was such a fun gig :smith:

In my experience elevation in title/responsibility rarely come with a raise in salary as well unless you are a sales/marketing/literally anything BUT IT person. The next big raise is generally going to be found at your next stop in the employment chain. At which point you will be replaced at the job you held before by a person coming in and getting what you were actually asking for to not leave in the first place. Is it dumb? Yes. It also costs organizations a lot of their institutional knowledge. Not that I give a poo poo anymore. I'm a mercenary. The next place to offer me a $10,000 a year raise gets me.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.


Rhymenoserous posted:

In my experience elevation in title/responsibility rarely come with a raise in salary as well unless you are a sales/marketing/literally anything BUT IT person. The next big raise is generally going to be found at your next stop in the employment chain. At which point you will be replaced at the job you held before by a person coming in and getting what you were actually asking for to not leave in the first place. Is it dumb? Yes. It also costs organizations a lot of their institutional knowledge. Not that I give a poo poo anymore. I'm a mercenary. The next place to offer me a $10,000 a year raise gets me.

This is one of the most important business publications of the past several years:

http://blogs.hbr.org/ideacast/2013/05/talent-strategies-for-the-post.html

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


GreenNight posted:

My girlfriend is a Java contractor at an insurance company. She started in May and her contract was for 1 year. She was just notified that her contract has been extended until the end of 2014. Should she discuss a raise at the end of the 1 year (next May)? I've never worked contract so I'm not sure what to tell her.

What kind of contractor is she? I know for us having contractors work more than 6 months a year for us puts us in some legal minefield where people in California start suing for employee benefits.

If she's a W-2 contractor through some kind of staffing firm like Volt or Robert Half, her compensation is between her and the contracting company. (Volt is the employer, who assigns her to work at Company X. The contract exists between Volt and Company X).

If she's 1099 where she directly bills the company she is doing work for then the contract language will deal with what happens if the contract is extended etc. (example: I contract myself out through my LLC skipdogg enterprise consulting, and Company X agrees to pay me XXX,XXX dollars a year for my services or a defined project according to a statement of work (SOW)).

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

skipdogg posted:

What kind of contractor is she? I know for us having contractors work more than 6 months a year for us puts us in some legal minefield where people in California start suing for employee benefits.

If she's a W-2 contractor through some kind of staffing firm like Volt or Robert Half, her compensation is between her and the contracting company. (Volt is the employer, who assigns her to work at Company X. The contract exists between Volt and Company X).

If she's 1099 where she directly bills the company she is doing work for then the contract language will deal with what happens if the contract is extended etc. (example: I contract myself out through my LLC skipdogg enterprise consulting, and Company X agrees to pay me XXX,XXX dollars a year for my services or a defined project according to a statement of work (SOW)).

That makes sense. She's a W-2 contractor, she faxes her contracting agency a time sheet every week and they cut her a check. This is her first IT job after college so she is hesitant to make any sort of waves.

Sepist
Dec 25, 2005

FUCK BITCHES, ROUTE PACKETS


Gravy Boat 2k

Have her ask them if she will be required to sign a new contract reflecting the new contract dates - if so she can negotiate her pay.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


In that scenario the odds of her getting a raise are probably pretty slim. She'll probably need to job hop if she wants a raise. It could happen, but probably won't.

The way contracts like that work is the big company, say IBM tells Volt that they need 20 Java Programmers for a 1 year project. Volt says, OK, we'll place them but it'll cost you $100 dollars an hour. Now IBM agrees to that rate because they don't have to deal with any of the normal hiring BS. No paperwork, no benefits, no taxes, it's a flat rate operating expense for the project, easier to handle on the corporate books as well and they're not adding FTE's to the payroll.

So Volt needs to cover their overhead (recruiters, payroll, taxes, profits) so their cap on filling this position is 55/hr for the actual person going to be doing the work. They go hire the person, then assign them to work at IBM and pay them 55/hr while billing IBM 100/hr for it.

Long story short, she might be able to get some more money out of them, but it will cut into their profits which make the commissioned folks grumpy. If this is an entry level gig they probably won't have a problem replacing her with the next new graduate that is really happy to be making real job money. Like everything its supply/demand.


edit: On a personal level I hate long term W-2 contracts, the person performing the work is the one getting hosed in most cases. They're working in the same facility as actual company employees, doing work that is just as important but not getting the benefits of being an actual company employee. Many places contractors are treated like second class citizens. I think it's fine for short term work, but anything over 6 months I see as just terrible.

skipdogg fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Aug 26, 2013

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

Yeah, the place she works has hundreds of Java contractors, a dozen or so of which have been contractors for over 10 years. No health insurance, no PTO, no paid holidays. She's on the dev team which is half contractors.

And yes, second class citizens. She isn't allowed at the company events, she isn't allowed to partake in official team building exercises and they charge contractors more at the cafeteria.

Sepist
Dec 25, 2005

FUCK BITCHES, ROUTE PACKETS


Gravy Boat 2k

Wow that sucks. I have the same employment as your girlfriend but we get treated like gold around here, granted I am a "senior" engineer here so it makes a difference. I have two maintenance this week at 1 am that will take about an hour, yet I get that day off and get paid for an entire 8 hour window - and cisco is still taking us out to lunch all the time :D My girlfriend has officially ruled that I am living in a fantasy world and that I am not actually employed, I simply drive to an empty parking lot and cry all day.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



I hate dealing with hosted spam solutions. There's often no feedback if your emails are rejected and not quarantined.

So I'm between a tier-one support goon and an IS manager from another company who doesn't even know what an email log is. I should just step the gently caress out of this and let them sort it out.

Tasty Wheat
Jul 18, 2012



evol262 posted:

Do you really think this is a bad sign? As long as the job description is the same, who cares about the title? I've been "Application Systems Engineer 4", "Operating Systems Engineer 2", "Systems Analyst", "Data Center Specialist", and more. All of them were basically "systems administrator", and the first two were literally the same job on the same team, just in different locations.

It's the lack of attention to detail that I gets me.

Count Thrashula
Jun 1, 2003

LET THE GALAXY BURN.


Buglord

Tasty Wheat posted:

It's the lack of attention to detail that I gets me.

HR and detail rarely go together.

Where I work a job just got posted - "LAN Administrator", and requires a CCNA... the duties? Basically Active Directory work and setting up printers on the server. That... That's not exactly what I think of when I think "LAN Administrator".

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009



The terrible, non-standard titles in IT are definitely a pet peeve of mine. I see "Network Administrator" used as a synonym for System Administrator fairly often. Especially in small shops which is extra hilarious because the network consists of a Linksys router and maybe an unmanaged 100mbit switch. Not much to administrate there.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget

Grimey Drawer

Docjowles posted:

The terrible, non-standard titles in IT are definitely a pet peeve of mine. I see "Network Administrator" used as a synonym for System Administrator fairly often. Especially in small shops which is extra hilarious because the network consists of a Linksys router and maybe an unmanaged 100mbit switch. Not much to administrate there.
In some industries, the examiners refer only to network administers for everything. Our FDIC quesionnaire references it constantly. More or less, IT Director and Network Administrator are synonymous terms.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003



Misogynist posted:

This is one of the most important business publications of the past several years:

http://blogs.hbr.org/ideacast/2013/05/talent-strategies-for-the-post.html
So much text that basically amounts to "keep looking out for numero uno"

GreenNight posted:

Yeah, the place she works has hundreds of Java contractors, a dozen or so of which have been contractors for over 10 years. No health insurance, no PTO, no paid holidays. She's on the dev team which is half contractors.

And yes, second class citizens. She isn't allowed at the company events, she isn't allowed to partake in official team building exercises and they charge contractors more at the cafeteria.
Why do you hate america?

Sepist posted:

My girlfriend has officially ruled that I am living in a fantasy world and that I am not actually employed, I simply drive to an empty parking lot and cry all day.
Once you develop a valuable enough skillset it might as well be true.

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Aug 27, 2013

Crosby B. Alfred
May 20, 2006



I don't know what project or who your girlfriend is working for but this companies reputation - amoungst employees isn't exactly stellar. The pay is OK until you see that there is no Paid Time Off, no or awful health insurance and no investment opportunities of any kind.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.


Tab8715 posted:

I don't know what project or who your girlfriend is working for but this companies reputation - amoungst employees isn't exactly stellar. The pay is OK until you see that there is no Paid Time Off, no or awful health insurance and no investment opportunities of any kind.
Is this different from most contracting opportunities?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



Misogynist posted:

Is this different from most contracting opportunities?

Kelly Technical offers it - but other staffing companies that get you in the same BIG CORP or even the same department don't. So you tend to get a lot of bickering and jealousy between contractors.

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

The biggest peeve of mine is that she is working for an insurance company but heaven forbid they offer insurance to their loving contractors.

Crosby B. Alfred
May 20, 2006


Misogynist posted:

Is this different from most contracting opportunities?

From my experience which is [i]limited[/b] - most contractors throw up cash-money and nothing else. Generally, your workload quite high, the benefits spare of none at all but the pay made it worth while.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009



GreenNight posted:

The biggest peeve of mine is that she is working for an insurance company but heaven forbid they offer insurance to their loving contractors.

If insurance companies actually paid out claims that would seriously cramp their profits :v:

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

Docjowles posted:

If insurance companies actually paid out claims that would seriously cramp their profits :v:

I know right. Luckily she is getting insurance through this guy for at least general stuff:

http://host.madison.com/news/local/...be00cc68b9.html

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009



To change gears (:iiaca:), now that I have a commute again I am suddenly all-in on podcasts. I just came across WHOIS and it's pretty decent. The premise is to interview people who have been successful in IT and rather than technical topics, focus on things like what got them into the field, advice for newcomers, how to advance beyond entry level and where they see their industry going. So far he's been interviewing people who are decidedly still in the trenches, as opposed to the CEO of Google or something, so it's very down to earth advice a lot of posters here could probably relate to.

The first episode is a little lovely because he's just doing a test run, but if you give it through episode 3 I think you'll be glad you did.

IamJacksAlcoholism
Apr 29, 2013

Liquor ipsum dolor sit amet golden dream stolichnaya; jose cuervo ballantine, brandy manhattan! General sherman ramos gin fizz blue hawaii. Glendronach myers grog pisco sour ketel one kamikaze bananarita oban glen keith dufftown. Negroni montgomery, murphy's cuba libre rum swizzle. Vodka martini

Sepist posted:

...I am living in a fantasy world and that I am not actually employed, I simply drive to an empty parking lot and cry all day.

Hey! We have the same job! Do you go to the same parking lot everyday or do you like to mix it up? :dance:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DrAlexanderTobacco
Jun 11, 2012

Help me find my true dharma


I'm going to resign tomorrow and attempt to YOTJ. Everytime I get a call logged to me, I'm told to "Treat it as a priority", because we've hosed up previously (Senior engineer deleting their company drive without a backup for instance). I work on it for about 5 minutes, and then another call comes in which I'm told to drop everything for and complete at once. These are all issues that need to be looked at for a solid 30m or so. I just don't have the time to look at them.

The company is promising getting more helpdesk people in, but so far no luck. More sales people are coming in every day though!

Meanwhile, we have 3 people on the helpdesk and we're at call #55, at 1230PM. Hnng.

  • Locked thread