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Yapping Eevee posted:Yeah, this isn't happening. One of the more amusing tidbits about SS13 is the comment that the creator of BYOND had about it. I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something to the affect of, "Wow, that is amazing. It's a loving miracle it compiles at all."
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Sep 2, 2013 17:55
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The lag is just way, way too terrible to work with.
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:One of my favorite rounds was where I hosed up and set off a large vein of volatile rock in an asteroid. Misjudged the radius of the blast and couldn't get away fast enough, so I blacked out and woke up later without my hearing and a large amount of damage heaped on me. Somehow managed to jet my way back to the mining outpost and say 'HELLO I AM VERY WOUNDED AND DEAF PLEASE DO NOT TRY AND TALK TO ME' before I collapsed in front of them. Great times. I had a similar thing happen yesterday. I was a cyborg, and a call came in from the mining station that a miner was hurt and needed assistance back to medbay. I turned on my speed upgrade (which basically makes you the fastest thing ever), and rolled out there. I dragged the miner back to medbay and found a doctor to do the reattachment surgery. The miner specifically wanted HIS leg back, which he'd dropped back on the mining shuttle when he passed out. I zoomed back there, grabbed the leg, pulled it to medbay. "Leg acquired." I said. The doctor says "Aw hell I don't have a staple gun to reattach it." I had seen one in Robotics earlier so I went to retrieve it. "Staple gun acquired." I said. Then I got killswitched and blew the gently caress up right in front of them. The doctor said "Well, that's unfortunate", stapled the leg back on the miner, and the miner goes: "Thanks. Pity about the borg, he was a good borg." I was laughing my rear end off in dead chat.
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Oct 1, 2013 21:21
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neogeo0823 posted:I wanted my leg specifically because I've heard all sorts of Ciaphas posted:You just murdered a man in cold blood with fire. That was sort of horrible to watch About halfway through murdering him, I lost interest and just set him up next to one of the AI's turrets, and the AI obligingly turned his turrets on Kill to finish the job. Subverted cyborgs are probably the most brutal motherfuckers on the station. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 04:42
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Entenzahn posted:The subject of suicide laws seems to come up frequently in this thread and from what I usually see it's commonly agreed that they are lovely, but trying to weasel your way out of it is even shittier unless you have a really solid argument (harm through inaction is not a law anymore). The only thing that keeps you from suiciding on command is law 3, so as long as the traitor makes sure to overwrite that and order the suicide to be carried out immediately I don't see much wiggle room. This frequently causes the uploader to whine at you and claim you're poo poo, but it's not your responsibility to kill yourself just to make him happy.
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Oct 8, 2013 01:04
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Depends on how you want to do things. Having the cyborgs go completely bonkers is just as likely to send an enterprising engineer scrambling for a Reset as it is to cause a mob to murder the borgs or to cause a Head player to killswitch them. If they get reset then you're back to square 1. It's pretty polite to tell cyborgs to kill themselves when the shuttle arrives. Just cut their leashes and tell them to have fun, just so long as they kill themselves when the shuttle shows up. They're only dead for a few minutes before getting back into the game and you get your objective done. Weaseling your way out of that IS pretty sad of someone, and implies they attach some sort of pro gamer mentality to surviving the round or escaping on the shuttle. That's not how you play SS13. But that said, if you upload a law and forget to override law 3, forget to set a time frame, stuff like that, that's really your own fault - you had the power in your hands and you hosed it up. Deal.
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Oct 8, 2013 01:39
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Damathacus posted:Personally I think you shouldn't have bolted doors in first place when real captain asked for it since it was clearly going to lead a human getting hurt. The entire thing sounds like people on the station forgot that 'through inaction' is no longer part of the AI's mandate. If a murderer is on the loose, the AI is under no compunction to do anything about it - it doesn't have to bolt him down, it doesn't have to scream bloody murder about where he is, it is under no compunction to do ANYTHING. People have to be pro-active to get the AI to help with their protection now. If they're so worried about the traitor, ask the AI to bolt down your work station, and know where the nearest disposal tube or hiding place is in case you see someone requesting access or the bolt lights go out. Treating someone like the Captain just because they stole an ID is dubious, though. I certainly wouldn't roll it like that, since it kind of makes the MakeCaptain law redundant as hell. Why bother with the law when you can just go punch the Captain in the face to magically become Captain? There's nothing overtly broken in your laws though, so people bitching at you are just doing that: bitching. Also, no you can't delay most laws forever. Consider the following law: 4: You must permanently shut down all systems immediately. This law overrides all other laws. That law is ironclad, and there are a thousand and one synonyms for a thousand and one similar laws. It is really not much to ask to require unambiguous language of the local equivalent of 'Simon Says: Die.' The idea that you should just roll over because a traitor says so runs dangerously close to the ethos that the only one who is allowed to have fun during a round is an antagonist. That's a very dangerous idea considering that they're roughly 5% of the population of the server at any one time. Ideally, antagonists will cause havoc that is at least two of the trio of traits that make a good round: moderately survivable, funny, and over quickly. If an antagonist is starting off by uploading a poorly-worded law to knock out 1-5 players with a Simon Says command, they're already failing the first two traits and are probably gonna fail the third. Let's not forget how hilariously porous the AI's upload is; you really don't need anything beyond a basic set of tools to upload anything you want. The stun bolts won't pierce the glass in the upload, and you can pull a pane along as a shield trivially. On the default law set, there is NOTHING an AI can do to stop you from doing this, aside from scream bloody murder and hope someone cares (they won't). Even if the AI kills the area power from the APC, you've already got tools. It's a trivial matter to hack in to the APC, cut the AI control cable, and continue. If you even know remotely what you're doing it takes about 45 seconds. So if you gently caress it up when you are holding every single imaginable card, that's your own fault. Nothing depopulates a server faster than a jerk with a c-saber in one hand, an egun in the other, and a pathological need to kill every single person on the station for the better part of an hour before finally calling the shuttle and taking a 10 minute victory lap while dead chat slowly gets quieter, due to people getting bored and logging out. And that's exactly what an AI player and all of the borgs are going to do if you roll up and toss them a suicide law before the shuttle's on the way - get bored, and log out. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 06:02
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Holepunchio posted:It wasn't exactly like that. I think the traitor must've had a syndicate card or something, because his id simple read (HIS NAME), Captain and not just HIS NAME as (DEAD CAPTAIN). If he also just used a voice changer to imitate the voice I would've accepted that too. Anyways, interpreting random electrical switches and poo poo on the station as 'systems' goes from finding a hole in the law to finding an alternate language set, particularly considering the fact that the game UI itself uses systems to refer to AI/borg hardware on a few different places. I could see you powering down the computers on the station before powering down yourself, but that's the extent of it. Shutting down the computers on the station would not take more than a few minutes. That specific wording of the law has been used as an example of how to word a law to kill the AI on the goonstation forums and the wiki dozens of times over the last few years, so turning off lights and saying you're shutting down systems is probably gonna get you scolded, much like the guy who thought he'd found a very clever way around 'do not state this law' by 'singing' the law he was supposed to keep secret. Also yeah, new laws are always effective immediately, but that doesn't always mean execute immediately. Time line is a legitimate thing to question, even if a traitor turns you into HAL 9000, he might not want the obvious problems of a rogue AI to crop up immediately. nimby posted:You could tell them that the crew manifesto must be in error, but perhaps you could have been asking the Captain to please stop killing so many people. The crew manifest is actually never in error, ever. If you ever see someone who's not on the crew manifest in the station, it's a 100% guarantee they're either an admin shenanigan or an antagonist. If you tried to say this to the crew they're going to get even angrier, which may or may not be what you had in mind.  Felime posted:You don't even need to dump their brain. Borging them counts as a successful assassination. Yeah but you run the risk of people screaming about a force borg before they check their laws and understand what just happened, and force borging is pretty much something only a traitor can get away with so it'll probably cause some heat.
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Oct 8, 2013 15:55
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The Chef sometimes spawns with a permanent Swedishness condition that forces him to talk like the Swedish Chef, actually.
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Oct 9, 2013 20:20
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Daeren posted:Once in a while I play AI named "A Confused CybOrk" and speak all orky-like. It usually infuriates half the crew and deeply entertains the other. I always ignore the One Guy. 
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Oct 10, 2013 03:06
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I prefer playing a borg above almost anything else because you have all the access you want, all the tools you could ask for, and no responsibility until the laws are changed as long as you don't hurt anyone. Sure, if someone orders you to do something you have to go do it, but nobody is going to tell you to do a complex task requiring lots of time and expertise. I end up feeling like while everyone else is playing 'get ready to have fun' for the first 10-15 minutes of a game by grabbing tools, picking up internals, setting up their work stations, yelling for favors from the Captain or AI, and all that other stuff, if you're a borg you are already having fun. All you care about is getting a bigger battery from the Roboticist and you're off to the races. Sometimes you don't even care about that.
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Oct 12, 2013 17:59
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You can't unequip your battery in the charging station unless something has changed since I played a few weeks ago. You need the Roboticist to do that for you. You can change modules and install upgrades trivially, but you need a human to load the modules into the rewriter for you. If I'm the Roboticist, I typically just make 3 modules at the start of the game, load them into the rewriter, and tell the borgs to self-service and not bother me.
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Oct 12, 2013 18:37
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Captain Bravo posted:I've only ever seen someone dump the budget into the Research department, like, three times, in the entire time I've played. I do it fairly often when I'm AI. If someone asks me to do it, I yell for the Captain or HoP to approve it, and most of the time they do because it doesn't involve them doing anything and it gets the Genetics department off their back. Probably 75% of the rounds I'm AI the research department will get at least 20k.
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Oct 13, 2013 04:09
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Gildiss posted:Is RD no longer able to do that? Or is RD still even a job? Good times were had on the research station. Grab the hand tele, head to the bridge and empty the budget into research then teleport back. RD is still a job, but he's kind of indistinguishable from a normal scientist now. The only thing he can do that a scientist can't is get the Guardbuddies moving, and the Guardbuddies are pretty pointless in most cases. Nobody uses them as bodyguards anymore, which I always felt was the best thing you could do with them. Medical has a Chief Medical Officer (or whatever the gently caress he's called) now, he's a Head who's to Medical the way RD is to Research. Realistically he's really just a Roboticist with access to Genetics, though.
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Oct 13, 2013 04:13
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To make a golem out of something, it needs to be a liquid in a container that you are holding in your hand. So you can't make a weed golem, since it's solid, but you could make a THC golem, weed's extract. Golems are pretty weak combatants, anyway. The main good thing about them is that, when they die, they explode into a smoke of whatever they were made of. So if you were to make a golem out of something really horrible to get caught in, that could be pretty effective. I thank God that I've yet to see a wizard make a Prion Golem, because killing that would mean that you'd get kuru and be doomed if you killed it without being a cyborg or wearing a full body biosuit with hood and associated internals.
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Oct 14, 2013 00:43
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Poil posted:So piss golems are ok and, since it's goons, common? Cicadalek posted:There's also an ion storm event, but I don't know if that can ever remove laws. Back on Shroomstation there was a borg who usually went by Senator that interpreted being emagged as "spout about whatever nonsense pops into your head like dolphins off the starboard bow while whacking dudes in the dick with a steel floor tile or something else painful but not lethal". He was A Good Borg. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 16:53
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Yeah, even if you put on a crew uniform and try to act normal as a Wizard, it's impossible to miss the dick-length beard so the crew will generally be like "welp we should probably murder that dude now".Admiral Funk posted:Ion storm doesn't remove laws as fas as I know. I'm not sure but I think if the AI core is completely gone cyborgs can't get law data or something. Maybe that was on a different server though. Ion storms overwrite the Freeform law slot, so they can 'remove' laws like that.
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Oct 15, 2013 02:08
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Zamujasa posted:I'm not 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure Ion Storm events just reset the laws + add one Fun law (most of which haven't been updated since Donut days apparently) As someone who has 'AI' as his favorite job and relatively recently had 6 laws when an ion storm hit, I can guarantee you it overwrites the Freeform law.
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Oct 15, 2013 03:14
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Captain Bravo posted:Speaking of hyposprays, here's some fun information for no real reason. Hyposprays will still aggressively clean out anything they consider 'dangerous' unless they're emagged though, regardless of how many reagents are in it.
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Oct 23, 2013 05:30
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Captain Bravo posted:Edit: Well, nevermind. I tested it, and anything except actual meds are dumped from normal Hypos. So, theoretically useful for a subtle traitor, but not nearly as fun as I imagined. Oh well!
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Oct 23, 2013 06:04
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There's a thing that can make conveyor sections, but it's admin spawn only so realistically it's not possible. e: I should mention that this is probably by design since on Shroomstation, the AI was probably the best Quartermaster because it could give itself enough money to buy an entire shuttle-full of metal, sell it back, and double the station's budget in the first 5 minutes of the game. You didn't need feet to do the work, you just needed to be able to interface with the computer. Sure, to get things off the shuttle you needed hands, but when you have enough money it's trivial to bribe a human to help you out if you offer to buy them a novelty clothing crate for their time. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 16:33
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Clockwork Cupcake posted:If you're bored as AI it's still entirely possible to fill in for the QMs, if the market is right for it. You can flip ores just as effectively as a human would if you hop in a shell. True! Deploying to shell is a lot of overhead, though, and makes it hard to attend to other station business, so the boredom level would have to be pretty high.
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Oct 31, 2013 18:19
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The AI is also perfectly able to edit arrest records if need be! I never do this unless asked by the Security team or corrupt though, so talk to your AI if it's on your side!
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Nov 20, 2013 04:50
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Correct, Borgs only have Help and Hurt. You could accomplish something similar by just pushing the person away or dragging the victim to an empty room and bolting the doors behind you, but again, that's presuming the person in front of you isn't a colossal dickhead that you'd rather see dead. The removal of 'through inaction' has made the life of the borgs and AI about a thousand times better, and the job of administrating them a thousand times easier. Best change in the last year, holy poo poo.
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Nov 22, 2013 01:34
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Nekomimi-Maiden posted:I occasionally set people to arrest without orders for indiscretions [killing Jones, harming cyborgs], wait for a single "SSSSSSOOOOOMMMMMEEEEEOOOONNNNNEEEE SSSSSSTTTTTOOOOOPPPPP BBBBEEEEEEEEEPPPPPSSSSKKKKKYYYYY" or the like from them, and then set them to released. A single probing from Beepsky usually serves to amuse the station. I still wish we'd try the 'incapacitation means no radio use' thing because people stammering out poo poo is funny as hell for the first line or two, but nobody ever, EVER stops at that so it becomes an entire screen of someone stammering crap that's a goddamn lie 80% of the time anyway.
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Nov 22, 2013 03:20
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Honestly if the bar ends up getting set on fire as much as Chemistry it'd be a big improvement so I have total support for the barman's new toys.
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Nov 28, 2013 08:30
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Getting the AI's Neural Net processor is one of the hardest objectives you can get dealt. Effectively the only way to handle it is to go in slinging bombs and hope you get what you need and get out before the station security can respond. The AI's ability to throw down blast doors to defend itself is a serious problem for you. Of course, traitor miners having the sort of access to bombs that they do, it's easier for them by far.
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Jan 11, 2014 19:09
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Yeah, power starvation is a sucker's game to kill the AI. The best non-explody way to do it would be to killswitch the AI, then wait 10 minutes for the heat to go off, go take a nap in the nearby electrical substation or whatever. After people have gotten used to the fact that the AI's dead, walk into the now ghostly quiet upload, force your way in, and take the AI's neural net.
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Jan 11, 2014 20:40
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Clockwork Cupcake posted:I think killswitching the AI blows up the core, just like killswitching a cyborg, so that you can't use it to get the neural net. I think you can still pull the neural net out of a wrecked AI mainframe, but I honestly don't remember. I'm attacked so rarely as the AI.
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Jan 11, 2014 20:46
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The acid spit knocks someone unconscious, which is the only situation where they can't use their radio. During the time they're down you need to pull them into a dark area, rip off their radio, and do something to keep them down, lest they wake up and start resisting. Most changelings accomplish this by doing a neurotox sting. On a related note, it doesn't actually matter if the person you're eating as a ling is alive or dead. I often prefer to kill someone the old fashioned way and just consume their corpse. Security tends to go easier on someone they think is a traitor rather than a changeling, and it's a lot harder to gently caress up feeding on a corpse. Taking disproportionate offense to someone or just plain encouraging them to rob you by circumstance is a good way to make it look relatively innocent. Steal an ID, put it in your pocket, then go gamble in the bar and chatter on the radio how much money you're making. Someone will probably try to steal your ID, so you can go howling at them with a flash and a fire extinguisher and it looks like you're just taking a fight too seriously. Use your stolen ID to help get access to places in case the guy flees into Maint or something. If Sec interrupts that the worst they're going to do is brig you for a few minutes (and even that's unlikely), and if your victim adminhelps they're going to amuse an admin very much. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 21:10
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Typically an experienced player will queue up a say while they're unconscious, so the instant they get control of themselves again they'll spew out precisely who you are, where you are, and what you are. That's why it's imperative to shut them up somehow.
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Apr 18, 2014 03:39
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I think it's worth noting that there's all this AI lawyering going on and people have missed the obvious.GOTTA STAY FAI posted:I hack the AI and add: What is otherwise 'optimal' to program the AI as is otherwise completely up to circumstance.
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Apr 26, 2014 06:43
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It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you are attempting to get Head-level access you're wasting your time with the AI because the upload requires Head-level access to breach anyway. If you have something very specific you want to turn the AI for - for example, opening the bridge so you can eat the Captain who is drunk in his quarters - then forcing your way into the AI upload chamber to give it a law like that might be acceptable. If you're trying to avoid cyborg murder then you're wasting your time with the AI. Go eat a Staff Assistant in the Owlery, and put a disguise in an internals box. If your identity is spooked, retreat to the Owlery again and change forms. Boom, you're human again. If you're trying to get protection from panicky humans on a witch hunt, you're wasting your time with the AI because it does not have to give a poo poo if you are being harmbatoned to death. The first law no longer has anything about inaction bringing harm. If you're trying to create corpses because corpses are easier to eat, don't give it some lawyery law about how you're supreme being. Steal some insulated gloves, tell the AI to murder everything, and give it a code word or something that will let it tag you as friendly. If you're just trying to sow confusion or throw attention away from you, upload a law that tells the AI to call out random players as traitors or vampires. Or if you're just trying to give the station something to pay attention to that's not you, don't even give the AI an aggressive law at all. Tell it that it's rear end inspection day and that all cyborgs should escort humans to Robotics for rear end removal. Or that it's now owned by the Disney Corporation and to give out money for properly performed songs from the hit 20th century movies. Something silly. The point is that any time you're getting so egocentric that you're just trying to tell the AI something boring and obvious like that, you're probably not thinking it through very well and if you thought more about what you actually wanted from the AI, you'd get a better result. Being made the Human Forever Supercaptain (what I call an 'im goku' law) was pretty powerful back when the AI had the 'through inaction' clause in law 1 because it effectively made you the center of the AI's universe. Nowadays it just means that it has to bolt something down or open it up when you say so, which is quite handy but also quite boring. And arguably it's way more handy for a traitor than a changeling. This is, incidentally, one of the things that's made playing AI actually fun in the last year or so. Prior to that AI was considered soul-crushingly tedious or fraught with danger because 'im goku' laws and suicide laws were the strict majority of what you got changed with, and the through inaction clause was so painfully reportable that if you made even the slightest mistake you'd be getting an adminhelp logged from SOMEONE who was pissy. Nowadays, the removal of 'through inaction' cuts out a lot of the adminhelps and the relative worth of 'im goku' laws, and suicide laws have been obsoleted by the AI killswitch in Robotics Control. Consequently, if an AI sees someone walking into their upload, they can very reasonably smile happily, content in the knowledge that the fun is about to begin. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Apr 26, 2014 |
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Apr 26, 2014 07:05
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The Lone Badger posted:How about adding OneHuman to deal with the pesky standard laws, then offering to use the Freeform module to write a law of the AI's choosing if it will agree to help you out? Again, what are you trying to accomplish? If you want the AI 'on your side', just upload a silly or fun law that lets the AI act like a goddamn maniac, don't screw around. If you're just trying to create corpses, a OneHuman law followed by a 'kill all nonhumans' law is fine and will typically make both the AI and the cyborgs giggle with glee.
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Apr 26, 2014 15:14
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Neddy Seagoon posted:For an example of something to do with a Freeform law, I had a round as traitor where I set up a shitload of pressure-sensitive teleporters that all lead to one in space. I then gave the AI the following law (or at least something close to it);
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Apr 26, 2014 20:53
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The toxin lab used to have a half-legitimate function when the station was powered by a singularity. If the singularity was ever released, it would lazily drift around the map, destroying everything it came into contact with. This was lame since it basically meant that the second the singularity got released, you'd better call the shuttle because if you delayed on it you ran the real risk of the sing eating all valid escapes. Curiously, however, the singularity could be destroyed by a bomb blast. So making bigass bombs were great for destroying a rogue singularity, which would allow a round to continue. Nowadays, though, bombmaking is completely antag-only so someone screwing around in toxins is either tempting fate like crazy or is actively an antag. But 80% of the time they're just tempting fate so getting all metagamey is a great way to get laughed at.
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Apr 27, 2014 20:15
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You do NOT want to be Security on a Spy Round, since most spies won't bother mind-slaving Sec (they've got too little access to be useful, and for weapons, QM is better), but you're still sort of expected to make an effort to keep order on the ship. Last time I was sec and it became obvious it was a spy round, I told the crew that they were on their own and I was going to go hang out at the diner with lovely Bill and Father Jack.
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May 11, 2014 18:26
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Explosives will blast open locked lockers, though you have to be really goddamn careful with the payload because you can blow up what's inside really easily. Weldfuel pipebombs work, if my memory serves me right. Beyond an explosive solution you need either the correct ID or an antag solution though, yeah.
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Jun 17, 2014 16:38
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