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slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

This is probably my favorite WTF intersection in seattle



Yup, that is a 6 way stop, and is super busy since it is the best way to get on/off 99 at queen anne. The right lane of SB 99 gets blocked since traffic backs up on Raye, and its not uncommon to have 6th Ave backed up all the way under 99 with people trying to get on NB 99.

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slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Mat_Drinks posted:

Why don't y'all come down to West Seattle? We all float down here! :cb:

West Seattle is pretty awesome, until you have to go anywhere that is not West Seattle.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

rscott posted:

Hi my car was made in 1986

You know that little tab on the bottom of your rear view mirror? That is what I believe he is referencing, and cars have had those since the 60's.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Giblet Plus! posted:



seems like a pretty clear way to communicate "give us a little more space"

So its now OK to completely block an entire freeway, while riding illegally(pretty sure its illegal to ride side by side like that) just because there are a lot of you? Are people expected to just stop on the onramp when they accidentally get into the middle of this?

Granted I would have just waited for them to pass since poo poo like this happens, but doesn't mean its OK for guys to ride like this. I am just glad that we don't get groups like this in seattle.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

I had a older F250/350 almost drive right into the back of my e30 yesterday on the freeway. I was cruising along with traffic in seattle rush hour in one of the few sections that is not completely stop and go, sitting in the right lane following the car in front of me at a reasonable distance(I tend to stay back a couple car lengths in traffic so I can keep it in gear and give people room to merge if they need to) when the truck comes flying right up my back bumper. After he continues to follow me way to close, I do what I normally do to tailgaters, and just lift off the throttle and slow down a bit, only a couple mph. rear end in a top hat proceeds to get so close to me that I thought he was just going to start pushing me down the road. All I could see in my mirror was grill and headlights. All while I am in the right lane, and the next lane over is moving slightly faster. After sitting right on my bumper for a while, he finally moves over and proceeds to follow the car in the next lane just as close.

I am used to people follow pretty close in traffic, but this guy was so close I was getting prepared to have him drive into me. Nevermind the fact that I highly doubt he could out brake me, I don't think he could even see my tail lights anymore since he was that loving close. I know seattle drivers are terrible, but this took it to a whole new level.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

BraveUlysses posted:

Well, at least you didn't almost get hit crossing the street with you dog because some guy thought it would be sweet to show off his sweet drifting skills in the middle of a gooddamn intersection. gently caress new lexus owners forever.

No, but I have been hit by a car crossing a street in downtown seattle at the cross walk, with the light by a woman who was trying to turn right on a red. She actually hit me twice, bumped me the first time creeping forward, did not notice and hit the gas again, so I slammed on her hood and left a nice dent. When she realized what she had done, she got a deer in headlights look on her face, then hit the gas and turned. My knee was pretty sore for a week or 2 after that. I also had a guy get out of his car to try and fight me cause I was crossing at the exact same spot where I had been hit and he was trying to turn right. Ever since the woman hit me, I made sure to make eye contact with drivers turning so they wouldn't run me over. Apparently looking at that guy meant I wanted to fight him so he got out of his car and started yelling at me. All because I wanted to walk across the street and get a cup of coffee.

Yea, gently caress seattle drivers.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Solar Coaster posted:

Crossposting from GBS:

I saw that earlier today. I am still in awe that they managed to get on the express lanes in the wrong direction. Also, it looks like our other local twitter accounts are trying to keep up with Seattle Police.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

xzzy posted:

Yes, Seattle is a bit of a geographical oddity as far as cities go. In its early days it was contained by ocean on one side, and steep cliffs on the other. In the years since Seattle was founded they've tamed the hills (somewhat), but it still resulted in a metropolis that's much longer in the north-south direction than it is wide.

There's basically just one north-south artery that everyone uses to get to work, and during rush hour one half the highway will be a parking lot, the other half is relatively unused. So to alleviate this a bit they added several lanes in the middle and depending on the time of day they might be allowing traffic to drive south, at other times, north.

They have like a quarter mile of barriers before you can access the express lanes, accessing them from the wrong direction without knowing you hosed up takes a special kind of stupid.

HAHAHA one direction unused? When was the last time you took I-5 northbound from downtown? Everyday when I leave my office(~4pm to 6pm depending on the day) and head north, both directions are pretty much a parking lot( except the express lanes) all the way to the u-district, if not farther. I have spent my entire life in seattle( 28 now) and have watched traffic get worse and worse over the years. It is completely insane, but unless you live in capitol hill/right around downtown, our bus system is a complete joke, so for most people driving is the only real option.

The best part about the bus getting on the wrong way, they didn't find any damaged barriers, so I guess the bus teleported onto the express lanes?

Back to dashcam chat, I am definitely picking one up before I buy my new car. Its one thing to have someone gently caress up my beater e30, but if I have a brand new car I need to have proof that some rear end in a top hat hit me.

My buddy has a couple of these dash cams and is pretty happy with it. More expensive than the other options, but he also got the GPS module for it which is nice to have. I am thinking about one of these because I like the size and it has built in GPS, shock sensors and will stream video wirelessly to andriod/iphone apps.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

superdylan posted:

I support the Get A Dashcam movement. Worst case, you are out ~$60 and it never saves your bacon in court. I've had my DVR-207 for a month and I've collected the highlights from my 15 mile daily commute on the eastside of Seattle. Audio is muted so you don't hear a really obnoxious book on tape

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohNYZacujMU&hd=1

Now if only I could capture the sheer volume of people driving with one hand while staring down at their phone in dense but quickly moving traffic

That is really the best representation of what its like to drive in the seattle area I have seen. Also, gently caress kirkland.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

PhoenixWing posted:

It's absolutely terrifying when the lights poo poo themselves and just flash red. It turns into a 12 lane game of extreme chicken, where the only way to pass is to close your eyes and slam on the throttle.

Today was ridiculous since there was a wind storm in Seattle that knocked out power all over. So many dead stop lights and no one understands what to do when that happens.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^


And that is why I don't leave the house when it snows. Also it makes me very happy that I have a garage/driveway so none of my cars get parked on the street.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

kastein posted:

That first one you listed was one of my favorites. The U-turn right after it on the left is a great spot for the cops to hide too, going both directions. In fact I've been pulled over going westbound by that turnaround.

At 2AM. With no one else on the road. Doing 70 in a 65. For...

... failure to keep right except when passing. :argh:

Fortunately just a written warning, but gently caress, really man? There was no one to pass or be passed by, I wanted to stay further from the deer. And where were you during rush hour when 9 million chucklefucks were bumbling around in the left lane not passing anyone?

That would be cop lingo for "I was hoping that you were drunk, so here is a bullshit reason to pull you over now that I can tell you are in fact sober.". That is one of the main reasons I stay off the roads as much as possible between midnight till 2-3am. Don't want to have some drunk rear end in a top hat hit me or get pulled over because the cop is hoping I am headed home from the bar.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

cursedshitbox posted:

that rover just keeps eating cars :neckbeard:


I wouldn't need train horns with a PA system. Hell. I don't even need that. All I need is for my power window switch to not be flaky in true british nature.


I scared the poo poo out of some guy doing an Illegal Uturn infront of me (on a bicycle) and 10 or so other cars. got right beside his closed window and yelled at him. dude pulled over and stopped.

I liked my lack of horn solution in one of my old mr2's, just hit the clutch and floor the gas. The ~3ft long exhaust that ended with a supertrap tended to get peoples attention pretty well. I remember making some pedestrian how thought it was a good idea to try and j-walk directly in front of my car( If they hadnt stopped I probably would have hit them because there was no other option) jump about a foot in the air when i hit the gas.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

xzzy posted:

Injured ribs are the worst, I've never fully broken one but I've had fractures and even just a fracture makes life a living hell. Every sneeze or cough is murder, and sleeping is even worse because you can't put any pressure on the ribs without agony.

I had my sternum separated when I was in highschool(wrestling move gone wrong) and holy gently caress did that suck. It hurt to breath for a couple of weeks and hurt to lay down for a couple of months. One of the worst things about rib injuries is going to the doctor. I got x-rays and all that and the doctor just says "Looks like you separated your sternum, thats gonna hurt for a while.". Didn't even give me any pain meds. Even to this day, ~13 years later, any hit to my rib cage will drop me to the ground since its one of those fun injuries that will never fully heal.

I actually ended up screaming at a guy riding a motorcycle the other morning, since he decided that he really wanted to be in the far right lane, despite being in the far left lane in heavy traffic on a 6 lane one way off ramp/street. I was waiting for traffic to clear the intersection before pulling forward, and right as I start to hit the gas, he pulls in front of me facing sideways trying to push his way to the other side of the road. I guess riding a motorcycle in seattle isn't dangerous enough for him, so he had to try and make me hit him. I am always very aware of motorcycles since I know way too many people who have been hurt by drivers being idiots, so it pisses me off even more when they do really stupid poo poo.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Solar Coaster posted:

So it's snowing in Seattle. Everyone knows what that means!


There is a reason why I am sitting in my office at my house instead of the real office downtown. Not only is it the last day before the holiday shutdown, but there was no way in hell I was going to risk some rear end in a top hat hitting my new car. I had to drive my girlfriend to school this morning, so I had a chance to try out the new Jetta in the snow. Did surprsingly well on the stock tires. And I might have taken advantage of the big empty parking lot at her school to play with the handbrake. I was half tempted to go for a drive in my e30, but apparently the battery did not like sitting for a couple months unused.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

xzzy posted:

This is my first winter with traction control, and while it's pretty nice to get effortless starts when a light goes green (it does make me feel like a lazy bastard though), it loving sucks when I want to goose the throttle for some intentional wheel spin and the car is all "sorry bro, safety first!!"

Really? I have never had any luck with traction control in the snow. It snowed maybe an inch recently and I had to turn off the traction control in my JSW since it was pissing me off. I could drive around OK with it on, but it was much easier to get around without it. Hell, my buddy used to have a e36 328ci that refused to move in the snow with the traction control on, but turn it off and we hooned about all over seattle in it.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

xzzy posted:

It's pretty terrible in corners but straight line? I just push the long skinny pedal and the car pulls like it's nothing. Of the vehicles I've driven in my career, only AWD+studs has been better for picking up speed on snow.

I don't really keep up on implementation differences between makers though, maybe Toyota's is better suited to snow or something. :iiam:

Maybe, I was having issues starting from a stop. Hit the gas and the traction control light goes crazy and I can barely accelerate, turn it off and I can go just fine. Granted this is on a tdi, so the extra torque is prolly freaking out the system.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

BraveUlysses posted:

Who the gently caress invents this? I swear to god half the loving subarus in all of seattle have owners who don't understand that DRLs are not low beams.

That is just uncalled for. One if my favorite things about the outback we used to have is you could leave the headlights on all the time since they turn off with the ignition. I must admit I have driven for a while in my jsw at night before I realized I hadn't turned my lights on. At least vw puts a big DRL light on the speedo to remind you.


I had some rear end in a top hat try to get hit by me last night when I was driving downtown around 8. It was raining a bit, but being Seattle you would think people would be used to it. Just cruising down the second to right lane at 65, when someone gets on i5 and decides they have to be in my lane despite there being no one else in the right lane. While going about 45mph. I saw him coming and still had to brake really drat hard to not drive into the back of him. I really need to order a dashcam....

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

nsaP posted:

I compared them because I think they're equivalent in this sense. Why is driving with headphones more dangerous?

Well either way, both are illegal. If you can not see the issue with people wearing headphones while driving/riding(which are going to cut down on what outside noise you can hear no matter what), I don't know what to tell you.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Motronic posted:

So luxobarges with good soundproofing are more dangerous than economy cars? I'm just trying to follow the logic here.

How does turning up the radio play into this? Or driving around in a lower gear than necessary thereby causing additional engine noise? Windows up or down? Fan on low vs high?

Its not strictly just the noise of the music in headphones, but the fact that it blocks out noise that is not just the music. If you don't believe me, go sit in your car and crank the radio up and see what external noise you can still here. Then put some headphones on and match the loudness of the music before and see how much external noise you can hear. It might not seem like it, but it really makes a huge difference.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

^^^ I will say I have less of a problem with motorcycles doing this than people in cars. I never said they block all noise, but they do cut it down. Read the other posts and you may understand my point.

Motronic posted:

I have and, unless it's my noise isolation headphones, it's not significantly different. Especially with cheap rear end ear buds and unless you're absolutely cranking them.

I don't make a practice of doing this, as I have no need to. But I still don't see the big deal that certain AI posters make it out to be (not discussing the legal aspects here). In the grand scheme of things it's incredibly minor compared to plenty of even more common and hazardous driving distractions.

True, and it might just be me/my headphones but the one time I tried driving with headphones in it was terrifying and I could not do it.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

xzzy posted:

When I owned a manual, sometimes I'd challenge myself to commute all the way home without ever once touching the brakes. Wouldn't do it in heavy traffic or if people were behind me, but four lane roads with light traffic? Heck yeah.

I do this all the time, since driving in seattle gives me constant opportunities to be stuck in traffic. Hell, I actually still do it in my JSW, drop the transmission into *sport* mode, and it actually will downshift aggressively enough that I rarely have to touch my brakes while in traffic.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Krakkles posted:

Boo hoo people drive "fast".

That alone isn't anything wrong.

On residential/side streets? gently caress you if you speed in those areas. The neighborhood I live in does not have sidewalks on all the side streets, so when I am out walking my dog I am forced to walk in the street. Despite doing everything I can to be seen(wearing clothes with reflective stripes, flashing light on my leash, flashing light on my dogs harness, walking against traffic, etc), I have almost been hit by cars easily doing 30+ on the side streets. basically gently caress you if you feel the need to speed in residential areas, I hope you learn your lesson before you kill someone.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Beach Bum posted:

I don't have any residential areas other than my old neighborhood where the speed limit is less than 35. Rarely 30 or even less so 25 (my old neighborhood).

So, yeah, 30+ is pretty much nbd.

Thank you for wearing reflective gear. I nearly killed the president of the HOA and her friends in my mom's neighborhood one night because they thought it was a brilliant idea to waltz down the middle of the road at 22:30 with no reflective gear on a corner. Also nearly killed a cop standing in the road on a highway as well. Black uniforms at 02:30 where the limit is 65 and no reflective gear? I almost wouldn't feel bad for punting you 100 yards. Idiots.

All non arterial streets in my area have a 25mph speed limit unless otherwise posted. I tend to drive closer to 20mph just because I know there are lots of kids in the area and I have had people run out into the road in front of me before.

I am extra paranoid about getting hit when I am walking my dog, especially because I have a dachshund so she is low to the ground and hard to see. Hence the flashing red light on me around waist level and another on her harness. I already lost one dog to a car, I am not losing the one I still have.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Terrible Robot posted:

Saw a jogger, ahem, jogging in the road, literally a foot from the nicely cleared sidewalk. Cars were having to go halfway into the oncoming lane to pass them. I sincerely hope they get turned into a loving hood ornament.

I see this all the god drat time. To make it even better, most of the people doing this that I see don't even have the common courtesy to walk against the flow of traffic. Just the other day I saw a guy doing this, just running down the road next to parked cars in the middle of the right hand lane. In downtown seattle on first ave(just a bit of a busy road), during rush hour. It was early enough that there was pretty much no one on the sidewalk, but lots of cars trying to drive in the right lane. I had to fight the urge to hit him with my wing mirror, mostly cause I didn't want to hurt my car.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

TrinityOfDeath posted:

You can go to Harbor Freight and pick up decently loud horns there that should just wire in place of the stock one. Nothing can really compare to old car horns though.

Comedy option; modern muscle car, loud exhaust, manual tranny. Around my university people would jaywalk into the road without looking, and a little rev with the clutch down made them MOVE.

This was the solution I used in my old mr2s, since the horns in aw11s are comically bad. 20v 4age swap with all of ~3ft of exhaust with only a supertrap "muffler" to quiet it down. I watched people jump a good 2 feet in the air from me flooring it with the clutch in.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

wayfinder posted:

Except it DOES work here in Germany, where it's actually coded in law to merge zipper style, as late as possible, and people do it just fine the overwhelming majority of the time.

It actually seemed to work pretty well in New Zealand as well. Granted my first time driving there, it took me a few minutes to figure out wtf they meant with these signs



Then I felt like an idiot for not getting it right away. I wish people would do that in the US, but its either people coming to a stop as soon as the merge area starts and waiting for a huge opening, or they floor it down the shoulder well past where the lane ended in order to get ahead of as many people as possible.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

I had a guy sitting in the far left lane of the i5 express lanes pacing a car in the next lane over at about 60mph. I came up behind and double flashed my high beams at him, and he actually got out of the way. Granted he slammed on his brakes and dove behind the car next to him with out indicating and so abruptly that I actually jumped on my brakes thinking something bad happened in front of him. Nope, I guess he just wanted to show me how rude I was being by wanting to pass people in the passing lane. Then as soon as I got by him and was going about 70, he drops back in right on my rear end, turns his high beams on and just sits there for a bit.

I really don't get people some times.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Solkanar512 posted:

That poo poo is illegal here in Washington, yet you see that poo poo All The loving Time.

There's a ton of room in your Outback for your pet, quit loving around.



and thats even in the outback we used to have! It was green and I live in seattle, have fun figuring out which green outback is yours in the REI parking lot! That was the worst idea ever.

BraveUlysses posted:

:( this serves as a good reminder that i need to secure my pup in our jetta sportwagen.

I don't want to install one of those metal guards that go between the rear seats and the cargo area, any suggestions?

For actually protecting your dog in the event of a crash, I have heard these are the best.

For just keeping them in one spot, I have one of these harnesses that you can see in the picture above. I really like my jetta sportwagen because my dog is light enough that she does not trigger the passenger air bag sensor, so I feel better about having her ride shotgun.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Krakkles posted:

Years ago, I'd make them flash "99" with my motorcycle.

I don't do it anymore, but I'm still tempted.

Yea, I used to see them as a challenge. Thankfully I have calmed down in my old age.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Ror posted:

I'm have no evidence that the two things are related, but in multiple states all the ones I've seen now will blink the speed limit or something like **SLOW** once you're doing about 10+ over. I'd like to think that it's because the signs double as high score displays though.

Krakkles posted:

Yeah, that's pretty ubiquitous at this point.

You are both right, but back when I would do stupid things when I saw those signs it was before they had made them flash **SLOW**. I am pretty sure it is because of people like me using them as a score board that they made that change.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

SocketSeven posted:

You were clearly very spoiled by cars with high static compression, and working parking pauls.

and/or lived in a city without hills. Having lived in seattle for so long, I have had multiple people call me before complaining that they could not get their car out of park since they didn't think parking brakes were useful and were on one of the many steep hills around here.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

GramCracker posted:

Having a manual car, this can be all too much fun. :xd:

I remember when my dad was first teaching me to drive, I was sitting at stop sign on a pretty steep hill and the guy behind me pulled right up my rear end. Being new to driving a manual, I rolled back maybe a foot and bumped him. I started freaking out and my dad just said "gently caress him, he was way to close to you. his fault just go.".

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Maker Of Shoes posted:


Guy plows his bike into the back of a Mazda at a 140mph

Is it just me or is the whole "140MPH!!!!!!" complete bullshit? Maybe 140kph. It looks to me like the guy on the bike was doing maybe 90mph, and the suv was just doing ~20mph for some unknown reason.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Geoj posted:

^
Unless you assume the bike was doing 140 and the Mazda was doing a reasonable highway speed (60-75), resulting in a closing speed of 65-80.


Still the biker's fault for not paying attention to the road in front of him...

I never meant to imply any of the blame was on the driver of the mazda, but he did seem to be sitting on a open highway at about 20mph.

Also, I was judging the motorcycles speed from when he was recording his buddy riding. It def looks much closer to 80mph than 140mph.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

xzzy posted:

If you bring up the map of the accident location and compare to landmarks in the video, he travels roughly 475 feet in roughly 2 seconds.. which if you do the math is pretty close to 140 mph.

It's a wide angle camera showing some rolling shutter, it's hard to guess how fast stuff is moving just by eyeballing it.

I stand corrected. I didn't think about the wide angle camera, makes sense.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

DEAR RICHARD posted:

I do hate myself for doing the car2go thing. Don't worry.

They are pretty awesome when you are at the office and really want lunch from a place on the other end of downtown and are to lazy to walk that far. Or if you are going out to the bars and don't want to pay for a cab both ways.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

Uthor posted:


For some reason I was reminded of an unrelated incident years ago. I was riding my motorcycle and stopped at a red light. A work van stopped to my right carrying gutters or siding or something on the roof rack. When they stopped, half their load kept going into the intersection. The two guys hopped out and picked up all the crap in a couple of seconds, making me wonder if it's a common occurrence. I was just glad they didn't stop behind me and I didn't get smacked in the back of the helmet with a length of gutter.

I did that once when I first started doing deliveries/warehouse work for a commercial flooring company after highschool. I was driving a beat to poo poo early 80's f350 manual flatbed with a pallet of 2 gallon buckets that was stacked higher than the headache rack, realized at the last minute there was a red left turn arrow(no cars around so I was just gonna go left), slammed on my brakes and watched buckets fly over the roof. Had to jump out in the middle of a 9 lane road(giant industrial area, 50mph limit) and grab all the buckets that were thankfully intact. Thats when I learned to put a pallet on top and ratchet strap it down.

slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

thebigcow posted:

Cover your car in SuperSpeeders.com stickers and race him.

In my younger days, a friend and I might have tried to start a race with a new Corvette z06 on I5 in seattle. We raced up along side him, looked over to see a state trooper if full uniform look over at us, wave and then start laughing as my buddy slammed on his brakes. A couple days later I saw the same corvette light someone up on the highway. WSP has some strange cars you would not expect.

And yes, when I was younger I was one of the people that you shared the road with. I have calmed down with age.

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slurry_curry
Nov 26, 2003
<3mini-moni+animu^_^

FogHelmut posted:

The easy way to spot undercover cops is to see the Chargers/Explorers with blacked out front windows, since that is illegal here and they ticket regularly for it, almost no one tints their front windows beyond the lightest shade.


Another good giveaway, at least in Washington, is look at their plates. Not that the unmarked cars run license plates that are exempt or anything, but they will not have a license plate frame, except for maybe a plain black one. If the car has a dealer plate frame, its not a cop.

That and the steel wheels. You can only get those black with small hubcap on the police models, but that only works on the police specific packages(Ford Interceptor/Tahoe/etc)

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