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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


No doubt, Robocop 3 is unwatchable.

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foodfight
Feb 10, 2009


Young Freud posted:

Only God Forgives Spoilers

Hey what gives?

Shanty
Nov 7, 2005

I Love Dogs


foodfight posted:

Hey what gives?

That's so devoid of context that it's the least spoilery spoiler in existence. I don't actually think it's possible to "spoil" Only God Forgives, I mean it's not about plot in that sense.

Rageaholic Monkey
May 31, 2005

Sometimes
people need a reminder
that Nazis are supposed to be
on the wrong end of the gun.


Fun Shoe

massive spider posted:

What are peoples opinions on Robocop 2? Its on Netxlix and its better than I remember so far.
It's not as good as the first one, but by a small margin. It's still very entertaining, and the comedic parts are on par with anything from the first one. The plot gets pretty ridiculous but it's fun to watch.

Now, the same can't be said for Robocop 3. Stay far away from that piece of poo poo.

Hockles
Dec 25, 2007

Resident of Camp Blood
Crystal Lake



I have to like Robocop 3. I am

code:

LOYAL AS A PUPPY

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me


Rageaholic Monkey posted:

It's not as good as the first one, but by a small margin. It's still very entertaining, and the comedic parts are on par with anything from the first one. The plot gets pretty ridiculous but it's fun to watch.

Now, the same can't be said for Robocop 3. Stay far away from that piece of poo poo.

Watching all three movies long before I was old enough, I think this is a fair assessment. Robocop 1 titillated (Boobies! Dismemberment!) and excited me; Robocop 2 horrified and amused me (Ha ha! He's acting superfriendly because he's been reprogrammed oh that guy just pulled his own head off); Robocop 3 is kid-friendly boring garbage even the kids it was aimed at couldn't like.

Sentinel Red
Nov 13, 2007
Style > Content.

massive spider posted:

What are peoples opinions on Robocop 2? Its on Netxlix and its better than I remember so far.

A few great moments but typical Frank Miller garbage in the main, plus the no mark who wrote the score had the loving audacity to slag off Bazza's classic score for the original. gently caress that guy, man.

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

sets off a "weirdly specific fetish artwork" vibe

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

The good parts of Robocop 2 are really funny and the rest is interminable.

See I think thats going a bit far. Watching it again the ads are still great, the whole murphy subplot with his wife and "they made this to honor him" bit works well. The villain is a decent idea and so on, I'm curious as to why lots of people seem to feel so strongly its a Bad Movie.

The politics of it get a bit weirdly right wing at points I'll give it that.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Hair Elf

That trailer pretty reaffirmed my high hopes for the remake; it might even be better than the original!

Y'all nerds gotta remember to put your baggage aside when you go to watch it. It's not the 1980s anymore.

Rageaholic Monkey
May 31, 2005

Sometimes
people need a reminder
that Nazis are supposed to be
on the wrong end of the gun.


Fun Shoe

Black Bones posted:

That trailer pretty reaffirmed my high hopes for the remake; it might even be better than the original!
Okay, now you're just spouting straight up blasphemy

Swiftboat Rookie
Jan 12, 2005

It's Sexin' Time!

Full disclosure: RoboCop is my favorite film. Ever. But, even as a huge Trekkie (seen all 700+ episodes) I still found it in my heart to really enjoy Trek'09, so I'm not coming at it from the "NOT MUH ROBO" angle. Come on... two movie sequels, two cartoons, a live-action TV show, a TV miniseries, comics from at least five different companies, and a dozen videogames, and they all suck. The Sega Genesis version of RoboCop Vs The Terminator was a pretty solid game, but still, there's not much in the way of quality after the first film, aside from the improved RoboSuit.

I want this movie to be good, but I've seen nothing to assuage my fears. The draft of the script that I read last year seems to be intact except for a few pitiful moments, which pretty much means that the movie has no bad guy and Robo does nothing heroic (or of consequence) until the final act.

Dammit, people, it's not about being better than the other lovely spin-offs, it's about living up to its own potential, and I'm not seeing that as a big possibility.

massive spider posted:

I'm curious as to why lots of people seem to feel so strongly its a Bad Movie.

It's a meandering mess that introduces subplots then drops them like a bad habit. Hell, Robo himself disappears for a 20 minute chunk of the movie with no explanation. When a movie is so unfocused and unstructured, it's no wonder that people can only remember specific parts instead of the viewing experience as a whole.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Swiftboat Rookie posted:

It's a meandering mess that introduces subplots then drops them like a bad habit. Hell, Robo himself disappears for a 20 minute chunk of the movie with no explanation. When a movie is so unfocused and unstructured, it's no wonder that people can only remember specific parts instead of the viewing experience as a whole.

From what you know of the production, do you think it's so disjointed because they were originally going to make it part documentary part action flick like District 9 or were there just too many writers involved? It seems weird something as basic as "cop get hurt, gets augmented and fights crime even harder" could be unfocused.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

No doubt, Robocop 3 is unwatchable.

RoboCop 3 has a few points in its favor:

- Basil Poledouris returned to do the score, and his Rebel theme is excellent (even if he did later recycle it into the Federation March for Starship Troopers), and the more lavish orchestration is very nice

- John Castle is always fun

- The sheer hilarity of the Robosuit being way too small for Robert John Burke (who is about three inches taller than Weller), resulting in things like the soles of his sneakers being visible when the grenade nails him in the chest

The rest of it is pretty bad, sure, but it's a fun distraction on a lazy Sunday morning or whatever. It can be easier to stomach than RoboCop 2, which is just violent for the sake of violence.

massive spider posted:

the whole murphy subplot with his wife and "they made this to honor him" bit works well.

That's the problem -- it's just a bit. Murphy coming to grips with the utter horror that was perpetrated upon him is really the only real next step you can take with the character, once he's triumphantly regained his humanity (or his soul, at least) at the end of the first film. But as his stalking of Ellen shows, he's starting to crack, mentally. There's an entire film's worth of material in that idea, but it's brought up and then dropped ten minutes later, like half a dozen other subplots in that complete disaster of a script (which is what happens when you have Walon Green rewriting Miller's work on the set as Kershner tries to direct the film while battling the flu).

Timby fucked around with this message at Sep 12, 2013 around 22:31

Rageaholic Monkey
May 31, 2005

Sometimes
people need a reminder
that Nazis are supposed to be
on the wrong end of the gun.


Fun Shoe

I don't know if this is official or not, but I saw this earlier:


Goddamnit, why couldn't this have just been an anime

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Rageaholic Monkey posted:

I don't know if this is official or not, but I saw this earlier:


Goddamnit, why couldn't this have just been an anime

Would it make a different? This ain't like the 80s and mid-nineties when anime like Genocyber and whatever were out there that were, well, as gruesome as RoboCop.

Ghosthotel
Dec 27, 2008


He looks like an android phone, and I hope thats totally on purpose.

Palpatine MD
Jan 31, 2012

Passionate about your involuntary euthanasia.


MAH TRIGGER DISCIPLINE

I kind of like that poster. The cop badge doesn't look like a badge as such but appears to have been applied with a branding iron. Really drives home the theme of free will versus external control that's also been hinted at in the trailer.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

massive spider posted:

See I think thats going a bit far. Watching it again the ads are still great, the whole murphy subplot with his wife and "they made this to honor him" bit works well.

Wasn't there an intended twist to Robocop that he wasn't really Murphy at all, just implanted memories and his face-skin stretched over a robot's head? That scene always reminds me that I've heard that, but I can't place where.

Rageaholic Monkey posted:

Goddamnit, why couldn't this have just been an anime

Because they want people to see it? I don't mean this as a snarky anti-anime thing, just that a lot of movies that have drawn from anime/inspired things (Speed Racer, Dragonball, Pacific Rim) haven't really hit well with domestic audiences.

Rageaholic Monkey
May 31, 2005

Sometimes
people need a reminder
that Nazis are supposed to be
on the wrong end of the gun.


Fun Shoe

I'm not even the biggest anime fan or anything. I mean, I like a lot of the standard stuff that isn't too weird, but that's about it. Still, I think this design would've been a lot more effective if the remake had either been an anime or anime-inspired movie, like you said.

But you're right, that probably wouldn't have jived with audiences as well.

Throb Robinson
Feb 8, 2010

He would enjoy administering the single antidote to Leia. He would enjoy it very much indeed..


Robocop 3 has a jetpack and a ninja robot. What's not to love?*






*Everything:D

Swiftboat Rookie
Jan 12, 2005

It's Sexin' Time!

Neo Rasa posted:

From what you know of the production, do you think it's so disjointed because they were originally going to make it part documentary part action flick like District 9 or were there just too many writers involved? It seems weird something as basic as "cop get hurt, gets augmented and fights crime even harder" could be unfocused.

Are you referring to RoboCop 2 or the new remake?

Timby posted:

RoboCop 3 has a few points in its favor:

Like having a plot? A story with a beginning, middle and end makes Robo3 the winner when asked to choose between lackluster sequels.

Timby posted:

The sheer hilarity of the Robosuit being way too small for Robert John Burke (who is about three inches taller than Weller), resulting in things like the soles of his sneakers being visible when the grenade nails him in the chest.

Hey, now, that was a stunt shot! The only reason you couldn't see the soles in Robo2 was because they tacked pieces of black cardstock to the bottom of the feet whenever they'd be seen. They actually did that in Robo3 (when Murphy's laying on the table after taking the grenade) but I guess the editor just didn't give a poo poo when they did show up.

Timby posted:

But as his stalking of Ellen shows, he's starting to crack, mentally. There's an entire film's worth of material in that idea, but it's brought up and then dropped ten minutes later, like half a dozen other subplots in that complete disaster of a script (which is what happens when you have Walon Green rewriting Miller's work on the set as Kershner tries to direct the film while battling the flu).

The scene with Widow Murphy was much later in the workprint cut of the film, but I can only suppose they decided to discard the subplot as early as they did was because they excised the resolution to the entire thing. His wife and son were supposed to be in the crowds when RoboCain is going haywire, and, after saving the day, Murphy spots them, gives his gun a twirl for Jimmy's sake, and feels confident that despite not being able to be a part of their lives, he can still protect them.

One of the only things The Series did right was actually acting on that idea in the pilot episode, and having Murphy come to terms with what he can really be to them.

Ror
Oct 21, 2010

Everything's purrfect!


Palpatine MD posted:

MAH TRIGGER DISCIPLINE

Robocop laughs at our human need for discipline. Robocop is always in control.

Rageaholic Monkey
May 31, 2005

Sometimes
people need a reminder
that Nazis are supposed to be
on the wrong end of the gun.


Fun Shoe

Ror posted:

Robocop laughs at our human need for discipline. Robocop is always in control.


"Yeah, well role models can be very important to a boy!"

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



Rageaholic Monkey posted:

"Yeah, well role models can be very important to a boy!"

"Okay. I get a kick out of it."

Swiftboat Rookie
Jan 12, 2005

It's Sexin' Time!



Dunno why this is suddenly funnier to me. But best Auto-9 twirl definitely has to go to:


It spins all on its own! Hell, I don't think he even opens his hand.

Dr. Lariat
Jul 1, 2004

by Lowtax


Aside from looking more like an updated Guyver than updated Robocop, I can never look at a black suited Robocop without instantly drawing the OG black Robocop to mind. If you're thinking of that insane 8 hours for any reason you have gone horribly wrong.

goku im piss
Mar 18, 2005

Your mama was a snowblower


Robocop 2 should have won an Oscar for the sound effects alone.

The Cain brain removal scene should have been preempted by a big flashing block of text that read

"Prepare to cringe a lot and possibly vomit"

I have a lot more appreciation for it now. It really did try to continue some of the themes and concepts from the original, like the black humor.



Giant killer cyborgs that did drugs, kids telling Robocop to go gently caress a refrigerator, the OCP nazi poo poo, Murphy trying to come
to terms with barely being human anymore, an evil kid as a drug kingpin.

A completely underrated film.

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

sets off a "weirdly specific fetish artwork" vibe

MisterBibs posted:

Wasn't there an intended twist to Robocop that he wasn't really Murphy at all, just implanted memories and his face-skin stretched over a robot's head? That scene always reminds me that I've heard that, but I can't place where.

I'm not sure how much that makes a difference to be honest. I mean robocop could be Murphy's whole brain in a robot body or just his frontal lobes or just his memories. What matters is that on some level he used to be Murphy, even if he's like 99% computer 1% murphybrain.

massive spider fucked around with this message at Sep 13, 2013 around 09:05

Sunning
Sep 14, 2011
Nintendo Guru

massive spider posted:

I'm not sure how much that makes a difference to be honest. I mean robocop could be Murphy's whole brain in a robot body or just his frontal lobes or just his memories. What matters is that on some level he used to be Murphy, even if he's like 99% computer 1% murphybrain.

On a direct level, Robocop is a story of an everyman who is turned into a cold, unthinking machine in order to help a corporation maintain its power. Over the course of the movie, Robocop slowly regains his humanity and makes decisions independent of his programming. This symbolized by the removal of his helmet (and chin guard?) and telling the Chairman that his name is 'Murphy' at the very end.

On a much higher level, Robocop is a cautionary tale of how the Cold War arms race has led to violence, proxy wars, and the slow dehumanization of the people caught between two rival powers. OCP uses the war on crime to deprive people of their human rights, implement fascist police state programs, make money off an escalating arms race, and keep itself in power. Director Paul Verhoeven experienced the horrors of war first hand during WWII. He saw what militarization and fascism did to Europe. You see these messages of dehumanization, regaining/finding one's identity, anti-militarization, and American imperialism repeat through out his trilogy of epic sci-fi movies from Robocop to Starship Troopers.

As for the remake, it really reminds me of The Dark Knight... sort of like Skyfall and Star Trek Into Darkness did. I hope we don't end up with a scene where the bad guy allows himself to get captured and then breaks out.

Swiftboat Rookie
Jan 12, 2005

It's Sexin' Time!

massive spider posted:

I'm not sure how much that makes a difference to be honest. I mean robocop could be Murphy's whole brain in a robot body or just his frontal lobes or just his memories. What matters is that on some level he used to be Murphy, even if he's like 99% computer 1% murphybrain.

RoboCop is such a tight and efficient film. One of my favorite things about it is how they managed to so effectively distill Murphy's character arc with two (two!) lines of dialogue.

After Lewis calls him Murphy:
"Murphy had a wife and son. What happened to them?"

And after being asked his name:
"Murphy."

That uncertainty he felt after discovering what had happened in order to enable his creation... was he a man trapped within a machine, or a machine trapped with a dead man's memories? Up through the third act he still felt that he was an entity separate from Alex Murphy and acted as though bringing justice to the people that killed the man was simply a matter of course or, in a worst case scenario, a way to "excise the demons" OCP saw fit to gift him.

I can't recall the last new film I saw that managed to so tightly weave its story and narrative without leaving a bunch of unanswered/unaddressed questions.

Despite all of the ultraviolence, black humor, and commentary, RoboCop's legacy for me will always be being one of the best structured and paced films of the past few decades. Knowing that the remake is eschewing that in favor of the vaguely plot-related wanderings of modern blockbusters is the biggest offense to me.

TheBuilder
Jul 11, 2001


Ror posted:

Robocop laughs at our human need for discipline. Robocop is always in control.



It would be cool if the gun fired constantly when he did that.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 12, 2007

Ain't nothin' to fuck with

Swiftboat Rookie posted:

Knowing that the remake is eschewing that in favor of the vaguely plot-related wanderings of modern blockbusters is the biggest offense to me.

Can we knock it off with this bullshit "Well the movie is OBVIOUSLY not going to do this because it wasn't in the sixty seconds of trailer" garbage? For gently caress's sake, people.

Gr3y
Jul 29, 2003


Dickeye posted:

Can we knock it off with this bullshit "Well the movie is OBVIOUSLY not going to do this because it wasn't in the sixty seconds of trailer" garbage? For gently caress's sake, people.

I think people are actually basing these statements off of a leaked script that showed up about a year ago. I haven't read it but the general consensus seems to be that it was not a good movie and a terrible Robocop.

Strand
Dec 11, 2008

Maybe someone with low self-esteem and slightly larger breasts.

Dickeye posted:

Can we knock it off with this bullshit "Well the movie is OBVIOUSLY not going to do this because it wasn't in the sixty seconds of trailer" garbage? For gently caress's sake, people.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. I was actually pretty interested in this thing until I saw the car bomb in the trailer. Maybe it's pointless to get hung up on a single detail like that, but if they completely neutered one of the most memorable scenes from the original, I suspect the rest of the movie will be toothless as well. Part of the reason Robocop aged so well was because the violence is so over-the-top: The murder, the board room, the car, etc. There's nothing in the trailer that discourages me from thinking it won't turn out like every other reboot passed through Hollywood's digestive system.

Jenny Angel
Oct 24, 2010

Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!


Lipstick Apathy

Gr3y posted:

I think people are actually basing these statements off of a leaked script that showed up about a year ago. I haven't read it but the general consensus seems to be that it was not a good movie and a terrible Robocop.

I read an authentic leaked script for Dredd before it came out and it was a bafflingly misogynistic pile of poo poo. The final product is simultaneously very similar and much much better. Hopefully something like that happens again!

Noxville
Dec 7, 2003



Dickeye posted:

Can we knock it off with this bullshit "Well the movie is OBVIOUSLY not going to do this because it wasn't in the sixty seconds of trailer" garbage? For gently caress's sake, people.

What else are we supposed to base our expectations on other than what the studio is giving us at the moment?

The film looks rubbish. Maybe it won't be, but there's not a lot to suggest that right now. I'm having serious déjà vu for the last remake of a Verhoeven film, where most people who said it looked a dull as gently caress movie content to hit a few fan service notes from the original were then chided by those who consider themselves above such things for not waiting and paying to know for sure that it was.

boar guy
Jan 25, 2007


You CAN tell quite a bit from the trailer for most movies that aren't deliberately cut to be misleading. As Noxville says, there's a total Total Recall vibe going on here. Robocop is the first R-rated movie I ever saw and Total Recall is the first R-rated movie I ever saw in a theater- any slick CGI PG-13 attempt to cash in on the name recognition of the originals is going to be rightfully derided as what it is- a soulless money grab. No amount of Gary Oldman or Michael Keaton or what I'm pretty sure is going to be less than 10 minutes of screen time for Samuel L. Jackson is going to save this piece of poo poo and I'm not afraid to say so.

Also, guy that thinks it will suck but is going to see it anyway because ohmygodRobocop- how about not financially supporting movies that you think will suck? Money is the only thing that Hollywood understands and you're confusing them.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Strand posted:

Where there's smoke, there's fire. I was actually pretty interested in this thing until I saw the car bomb in the trailer. Maybe it's pointless to get hung up on a single detail like that, but if they completely neutered one of the most memorable scenes from the original, I suspect the rest of the movie will be toothless as well. Part of the reason Robocop aged so well was because the violence is so over-the-top: The murder, the board room, the car, etc. There's nothing in the trailer that discourages me from thinking it won't turn out like every other reboot passed through Hollywood's digestive system.

hmmm, maybe it's because Robocop isn't Spiderman and you don't need to do the equivalent of killing Uncle Ben in order to show how he got this way?

boar guy
Jan 25, 2007


computer parts posted:

hmmm, maybe it's because Robocop isn't Spiderman and you don't need to do the equivalent of killing Uncle Ben in order to show how he got this way?

The visceral, personal murder of Murphy by the film's protagonist is a pretty important part of the whole conceit of Robocop.

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Gr3y
Jul 29, 2003


Jonny Angel posted:

I read an authentic leaked script for Dredd before it came out and it was a bafflingly misogynistic pile of poo poo. The final product is simultaneously very similar and much much better. Hopefully something like that happens again!

Yeah, there's time for rewrites, edits, direction and what not. I'm withholding judgement until I actually get to see the movie. Using the PG-13 rating to explicitly sanitize the horrific brutality of drone warfare and the human cost of it I could see this movie providing some interesting commentary that is apropos for our current experience. Some of the shots coming out (like the one where the Robocop on a billboard is positioned exactly like an action figure in the box) are encouraging. However, this may just wind up being a bland, bloodless, family friendly action movie that completely misses the point of the movie it's remaking.

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