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  • Locked thread
Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L L


Yoya posted:

Having to protect your worker dudes make it sound like the opposite but that's just guessing at vague descriptions.

The way I see it is that if you're trying to harm the enemy economy, you're sacrificing your presence elsewhere so they will either try to harm YOUR economy or try and kill you instead.

Evil Z posted:

Andy Belford
Community Manager - Waystone Games

Could you answer how micro transactions would be handled? And will beta keys be more accessible soon instead of people having to browse websites like reddit for public released keys? I have a few people interested in playing but I can't offer them anything.


E: I also realized the OP is missing a hero, but for the love of me i can't find a proper one for her.

Dizz fucked around with this message at Sep 10, 2013 around 18:33

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insomne
Nov 26, 2007

unrestrained rhythms.

I play a ton of Dota and have a passing interest in this, but I swear if there are mechanics or micro-transactions that alter the game and imply that I have to grind for something before I even load into it (like talents, etc.) so help me god.

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Well, to be honest, I'm not working all that hard really...


insomne posted:

I play a ton of Dota and have a passing interest in this, but I swear if there are mechanics or micro-transactions that alter the game and imply that I have to grind for something before I even load into it (like talents, etc.) so help me god.

Yeah that's the worst part about LoL imo, but I guess some people really enjoy the grind. Makes them think they're working towards something with every game.

maketakunai
Jan 11, 2006

What do you mean,
"it's only a game"?!


MinionOfCthulhu posted:

Removed or restricted? As in, could I still build a Rabadon's on Caitlyn and it'd actually do something for her, or could I not get it at all on her?
There's one stat called "Power". Each Shaper treats Power as both AP and AD, but different Shapers receive different amounts of AD per Power, and of course each skill scales on Power differently.

For example, Amarynth, a ranged magical carry, gets a 100% Power to AD ratio, so for each 1 Power she gets, her autoattacks will do 1 more damage (before Armor), and her spells have a Power Ratio of 100%+(20% per 0.5s), 80%, 95% and 120%, so that last spell gets 1.2 damage per Power.

Zeri, a ranged magical support/utility Shaper, gets a 20% Power to AD ratio, and her spells have Power Ratios of 65% with a 13% MR Shred ratio (more MR shred with more power), 70% with a 0.2% Silence Duration ratio (more silence duration with more power), and an ally-targetted 115% Heal with a 3% AOE Lifedrain effect (think one tick of Swain).

The same applies for the stat "Haste". Amarynth gets 0.2 Attack Speed per Haste, and 0.6% Cooldown Reduction per Haste. Freia, a melee assassin/carry, gets 1 Attack Speed per Haste and 0.2% Cooldown Reduction per Haste.

You can build the hell out of Rabadon's Deathcap or B.F. Sword or Phantom Dancers, no matter who you are, and the game will automatically apply it properly to your character in a way that benefits them the most based on what type of character they are.

Unfortunately, this means that an "AD Zeri" gimmick isn't really possible, since you'll just be beefing up your spells just as much at the same time. Those didn't really work anyways though

maketakunai fucked around with this message at Sep 10, 2013 around 18:49

Yoya
Nov 6, 2009

I already bought the chicken


Question: Is there a gruff white guy that spins with swords?

maketakunai posted:

There's one stat called "Power". Each Shaper treats Power as both AP and AD, but different Shapers receive different amounts of AD per Power, and of course each skill scales on Power differently.

For example, Amarynth, a ranged magical carry, gets a 100% Power to AD ratio, so for each 1 Power she gets, her autoattacks will do 1 more damage (before Armor), and her spells have a Power Ratio of 100%+(20% per 0.5s), 80%, 95% and 120%.

Zeri, a ranged magical support/utility Shaper, gets a 20% Power to AD ratio, and her spells have Power Ratios of 65% with a 13% MR Shred ratio (more MR shred with more power), 70% with a 0.2% Silence Duration ratio (more silence duration with more power), and an ally-targetted 115% Heal with a 3% AOE Lifedrain effect (think one tick of Swain).

The same applies for the stat "Haste". Amarynth gets 0.2 Attack Speed per Haste, and 0.6% Cooldown Reduction per Haste. Freia, a melee assassin/carry, gets 1 Attack Speed per Haste and 0.2% Cooldown Reduction per Haste.

You can build the hell out of Rabadon's Deathcap or B.F. Sword or Phantom Dancers, no matter who you are, and the game will automatically apply it properly to your character in a way that benefits them the most based on what type of character they are.

I think this flavour of damage math is LoL's greatest sin even above paying for characters and grinding for +0.5 damage buffs. The genre is screaming out to be simple and intuitive and not even EA will oblige it.

Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L L


Yoya posted:

Question: Is there a gruff white guy that spins with swords?

The dude with the big rock arm spins around and stuff if I'm not mistaken. I can't say much because the only games I played were all Raina.

maketakunai
Jan 11, 2006

What do you mean,
"it's only a game"?!


Yoya posted:

I think this flavour of damage math is LoL's greatest sin even above paying for characters and grinding for +0.5 damage buffs. The genre is screaming out to be simple and intuitive and not even EA will oblige it.
It's not really that complex in Dawngate, I just showed all the ratios as an example of how Shapers are different. If you build Power, your autoattacks and spells will do more damage, period. If you build Haste, there's less time between your attacks and spellcasts, period. Autoattackers just have what they get benefit autoattacks more, and casters have their stats affect their spells more.

You can see the entire item list here. It looks like they ripped all the randomness out of items, so that's nice. At least, except for Life/Vigor/Rampancy which give a % chance to heal some health whenever a nearby enemy dies.

Last I checked though, their Item Store is kind of a pain in the rear end to navigate. You can experience it yourself here, if you want. If I wanna start building towards a given late-game item, and I know the name of it or major passive effect, I can't just go straight to the item, I gotta click around in every single item on the list first before I figure out exactly which Magic Resist item leads up to it. I do like the icons though, everything's color-coded so an item that has a blue-purple-orange icon is going to be Will(MR), Haste(CDR/ASPD), and Resilience(Armor). You can tell what combination of basic stats it gives just by looking at it. ...except for the Haste/MR item Motion which is purely blue and doesn't have MR's telltale eyeball in its icon. The Haste item Clarity/Insight also have the MR eyeball but aren't MR items. EA

Dizz posted:

The dude with the big rock arm spins around and stuff if I'm not mistaken. I can't say much because the only games I played were all Raina.
Cerulean's Q, maybe? I've never played him either though.

JordanKai
Aug 19, 2011


Yoya posted:

Question: Is there a gruff white guy that spins with swords?

I don't know about spinning, but Voluc totally carries his sword like Tryndamere does!

Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L L


maketakunai posted:



Cerulean's Q, maybe? I've never played him either though.

I was referring to Petrus.

E: http://www.twitch.tv/waystonegames Dev playtest.

Evil Z
Jun 14, 2012


MinionOfCthulhu posted:

Removed or restricted? As in, could I still build a Rabadon's on Caitlyn and it'd actually do something for her, or could I not get it at all on her?

Mitigated might be a better word. We have a single damage stat that builds damage based on the Shaper you are playing as opposed to having to choose between two different damage stats. So if you're playing a Ranged Carry, it builds AD, if you're playing a Mage, it builds AP. There are several different examples, but the idea is that you wouldn't accidentally buy the wrong stat due to being new and by doing so ruin the experience of your teammates.

Evil Z
Jun 14, 2012


Dizz posted:



Could you answer how micro transactions would be handled? And will beta keys be more accessible soon instead of people having to browse websites like reddit for public released keys? I have a few people interested in playing but I can't offer them anything.


E: I also realized the OP is missing a hero, but for the love of me i can't find a proper one for her.

We're not delving into business model stuff just yet. What I will say is this: We will never have aspects of "pay2win" in Dawngate. If we do, I won't be there.

Our team is all aware of (read we all play...we also hired Miss Moneypenny, the former Monetization Director at Riot) what is expected from players when it comes to Micro transactions. We're going to end up doing some things that are familiar, and trying a few new things, which will be adjusted based on player feedback.

You can get beta keys from Waystone through 1 of 2 ways right now:

- Sign up and wait for one in your email.

- Watch our live stream every Tuesday, Wed, Thursday and when we have the servers on (follow the Twitch channel to get notifications for when we go live). We give out beta keys all the time in the stream, sometimes 200 use ones. https://www.twitch.tv/waystonegames

Ahhpple
Dec 18, 2011



I played the beta for a short while so I guess I could give some impressions here. They might be a bit outdated since I haven't played in a few months.

I don't really find the unique stuff about Dawngate that exciting. Spirit Wells could be cool but they just give too many resources to anyone who raids them and they are really easy to raid. It's not really worth it to capture Spirit Wells because you're just giving the enemy another place to grab free resources and the bonus gold you get from the wells isn't enough to offset that. It's not worth defending these Spirit Wells either because even if you kill the raider, they come out on top resource-wise (there's no gold loss on death in this game). They'll have a bunch of gold and levels from raiding while you wasted time out of lane chasing them. Don't even get started on how bad a spot you're in if you try to kill them but they get away. It's better to just let the raid happen and push as hard as you can, so when they come back to lane they have to defend their tower while you raid their Well. The good news is that this can probably be fixed by adjusting the bounties of the workers and changing the map.

The other unique thing about Dawngate is the role system. Before the game starts you pick your Shaper and a role for them. The role changes the way you gain gold, for example one role gives more gold for killing an enemy Shaper and another gives more for killing minions. The point of the system, according to the devs, is that it allows people to put character selection before team position. Instead of going into a game with your heart set on picking your favourite carry but someone picks a carry before you, you can just select the Tactician role and play your favourite character as a support! I don't really feel strongly about this one way or another, it just feels like it doesn't change anything. At best it's superfluous, you don't need this role system to pick whatever Shaper you want and play them however it's needed. At worst it could be a nightmare to balance when one role+Shaper combination becomes too strong and they have to fix it without ruining the other combos.

The itemization system falls into the same trap League does. Items get more cost efficient as you upgrade them meaning that it is impossible to build towards an early game, midgame or lategame strategy. You just become more powerful at a linear rate. That's not exactly bad, just not as deep as an item system that allows you to build "greedy" or one that helps you close out a game by 20 minutes. What Dawngate does do differently about items is that there are no active abilities, which loving blows. Instead you get a spell slot every few levels and you pick from a pool of 10 or so abilities. The reason for this, according to the devs, is that A. people often forget to use activated items and B. the effect is limited to characters who can use the stats of the item. This really dumb because one of the things the devs tout about Dawngate's item system is that every stat does something for every Shaper. You're able to unlearn abilities for a price but the whole system just feels like an unnecessary limitation. We could be building towards six awesome actives from a list of dozens but instead they're handed out at set levels and they're on super long cooldowns and they're way too powerful. Ugh.

Dawngate does the "buffs on neutral monsters" thing from League, which is a bad idea imo. Putting a resource in the jungle that you can't get in lane makes jungling mandatory and goes against the devs' goal of having a flexible, fluid meta. The rune system in Dota isn't perfect either but at least you have to sacrifice exp and gold for the chance to make a big play with a rune. In Dawngate the buffs are just something junglers come across while farming and they don't have to sacrifice anything to get them.

There are also Loadouts, which are like rune pages from League except they're free and you can't customize them. You select them before the match to add a few stats and maybe a unique passive to your Shaper. They're supposed to define your character's playstyle but I don't see why these can't be turned into items. If these loadouts were items they would be less restrictive and you could change your playstyle on the fly. I feel like they only have these because League has them too but maybe that's just me.

Other random stuff: brush from League is in (and still sucks), everyone has a personal ward that lasts a few minutes and has the same cooldown (there are no counter wards btw), there's no mana (Shapers have resources like Rage, Energy, or are resourceless), towers respawn after a while (turtling is really easy).

Some good things about the game are that some of the Shaper designs are cute (Moya rules) and they all talk to each other while laning together and fighting and stuff. There's a lot of lore if you're into that kind of thing. Some Shaper abilities are cool.

I stopped playing a few months ago but I'm keeping my eye on it. The game has its problems but it's still in beta and the devs have time to fix them. Honestly 99% of people won't care about all this stuff I just wrote so if this game still looks interesting to you you'll probably like it!

Ahhpple fucked around with this message at Sep 10, 2013 around 23:45

steakmancer
May 18, 2010

by Lowtax


quote:

The itemization system falls into the same trap League does. Items get more cost efficient as you upgrade them meaning that it is impossible to build towards an early game, midgame or lategame strategy.

Items are not more cost efficient as a whole the more expensive they are.

THE PWNER
Sep 7, 2006

by merry exmarx


I got a key for this so I might as well try it. Anyone know if the servers are west/east/central?

steakmancer
May 18, 2010

by Lowtax


THE DONGGATE OPENS TODAY INSTEAD OF TOMORROW SO GET YOUR DONGERS RAISED AND GANK SOME SPIRIT WELLS BECAUSE TONIGHT JEFF K'S FINEST (SA's premiere professional Dawngate team (accept no substitutions) WILL BE STREAMING OUR SCRIMS AND PUB DOMINATIONS AT https://twitch.tv/rickonix TONIGHT

THE PWNER
Sep 7, 2006

by merry exmarx


steakmancer posted:

THE DONGGATE OPENS TODAY INSTEAD OF TOMORROW SO GET YOUR DONGERS RAISED AND GANK SOME SPIRIT WELLS BECAUSE TONIGHT JEFF K'S FINEST (SA's premiere professional Dawngate team (accept no substitutions) WILL BE STREAMING OUR SCRIMS AND PUB DOMINATIONS AT https://twitch.tv/rickonix TONIGHT

How are you the best solo mid when there is no mid??

Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L L


THE PWNER posted:

How are you the best solo mid when there is no mid??

That means he's the best jungler.

Count Bleck
Apr 5, 2010

No one person could post that much without being noticed. TALK!

I wish I could get in on this because it's actually looking relatively interesting, guess I'll wait until waystone randomly sends a key.

I wanna play the duder with the gun almost exclusively really badly for some reason

please knock Mom!
Nov 9, 2011

Goddomme Jan!



steakmancer posted:

THE DONGGATE OPENS TODAY INSTEAD OF TOMORROW SO GET YOUR DONGERS RAISED AND GANK SOME SPIRIT WELLS BECAUSE TONIGHT JEFF K'S FINEST (SA's premiere professional Dawngate team (accept no substitutions) WILL BE STREAMING OUR SCRIMS AND PUB DOMINATIONS AT https://twitch.tv/rickonix TONIGHT

Did I make the team??

Orv
May 4, 2011

"To. Ya' know. Stuff."
(Nazi Rank <3)


I'm so confused by everything about this game. It plays vaguely like DotA, but it has AP, but it has the apparently now cool thing to do in new MOBAs of multipart items, and the characters are all just DotA+League character mashups.

I think I like it? I can't tell.



On a serious note, it seems a bit busy graphically. It looks nice, but the map is just a little overstocked on poo poo to see.


E: No, no I don't like it.

Orv fucked around with this message at Sep 12, 2013 around 16:49

Ahhpple
Dec 18, 2011



steakmancer posted:

Items are not more cost efficient as a whole the more expensive they are.

I guess I'm wrong, dunno where I got that idea. I stand by everything else I said though.

steakmancer
May 18, 2010

by Lowtax


Ahhpple posted:

I guess I'm wrong, dunno where I got that idea. I stand by everything else I said though.

Stacking Times is more stat efficient than upgrading them for literally every item derived from Time but the issue with slots emerge like all mobas.

Skyl3lazer
Aug 27, 2007

[Dooting Stealthily]



My thoughts:

Game 1 -
After going with my first instinct of 'guy who looks cool', I've chosen to play Petrus for the first few games. He has a blink/stun and a bunch of nukes, as well as a juggernaut spin. He also doesn't use mana, and is cooldown based. I went into the bottom lane, 2v2 with other heroes that I have no idea what they do. I didnt see first blood, but I got a kill on an enemy shortly thereafter under their tower. It did a fair amount of damage back but seemed to fire slowly. The game ended at about 7 minutes when someone on the enemy team left and they surrendered.

The only thing I really noticed that was weird was the potion of dont get ganked, which I guess has a short range but tells you if any enemies are near you. Ward vision was weird, I think you can see where enemy wards are? I also didn't even gently caress with the enemy mining bases despite having a bonus for doing so. I think I'll focus on that next game.

Game 2 -
Whoops that was a bad idea. They just all walked over and killed me, and I couldnt capture it for whatever reason. Ranged heroes have a huge advantage in this game, unlike dota they have a higher base damage for some reason. Even the bonus armor from Brawler and my starting hp item didn't matter. I went back into lane and resumed standard play. I guess those mines unlock at like 15 minutes to capture? NO RUSH 15 HONORABLE. I don't know why I'd take the predator passive it seems pretty bad when 1/3rd of its bonus doesnt matter for the first 15 minutes. I've found it incredibly hard to close gaps, even with a psuedo-blink ability and a haste summon skill thing, there's no boots. There's also a timer after a captured mine that you can't take it back. Gotta say I don't like the mine mechanic so far, it takes just seconds to capture them when they unlock, can't be recapped for a while, and can't be capped early on? It's some weird hodgepodge of mechanics that make very little sense and aren't explained (dota ). I don't actually know what the wells do anyway. There seems to be a dude on the other team who knows what the abilities do, he's like 10-0 at this point. Also good to note, there is NO SAFE PLACE behind the t1 towers, where you wont be getting hit by the t1 or t2.

Also what the poo poo towers respawn? There's no timer for this. It's currently 9-21, but we seem to actually be ahead for some reason. Obviously one guy on the other team agrees because he just quit (again). I have my Stability, and it says it gives haste, so I hope that's movespeed! It's lategame, I have two purps, but I still feel weak as poo poo compared to the other team. It's now 18-27, but we're winning pretty strongly. I capped all of the mines too! Not really sure what this 40 dps aoe damage aura is going to do when everyone has 3500. The game is really hard to read, which they try to solve with having the announcer say stuff like 'STUNNED!', but the announcer queues up phrases so he might say it after you're already unstunned . My team decided to fight the big monster in the middle at low hp, died, and immediately surrendered with 3 yes votes even though the other team wasn't anywhere near us and being 4v5

Basically I'm kinda glad dota 2 doesnt have concede because of that last match. Overall, the game feels like a league clone with tons of random mechanics added on top. It's confusing and hard to read and the community seems as poo poo as ever. That said, if you dont have to pay for the rune system thing or heroes it's already miles ahead of league. The items are reeeeealy weird, and I really wish there were boots. Turns out haste isn't movespeed, there's only like 1 item in the game that grants movespeed and it's only 6%. Good loving luck sticking on a target as melee, all of the powerful heroes I've seen so far are ranged. Some of the heroes seem neat I guess, it will take more time to pass a judgement on this game.

Orv
May 4, 2011

"To. Ya' know. Stuff."
(Nazi Rank <3)


One of the ranged carries does the kind of damage beta Akali did, it's a little crazy. Are you somewhere on the map within twenty feet of a bush? Not anymore you're not.

Which is another thing. The map is loving tiny compared to how many places people can suddenly pop out of. There's a lot of "another things" basically and they all combine to make this game a real mess.

Orv fucked around with this message at Sep 12, 2013 around 17:32

Phantasmal
Jun 6, 2001


I'm giving out Dawngate beta keys in the IRC chat in the OP, so if you want to get in for this weekend hop in before they're gone.

THE PWNER
Sep 7, 2006

by merry exmarx


Well I gave it a try for 3 games and I think I'll pass. To me, it feels like a flavor of the moment genre cash-in that just dumbs down a lot of stuff while trying not so hard to mask it behind something that they claim is "unique," which in this case is the map. Basically the game is nothing you haven't seen before 10 times while also removing a lot of things that you have seen before without replacing them with anything. I literally had a heart attack and also threw up when I opened the item menu and it was "Not smite," and then I opened up the not-summoner-spell menu and saw like 10 summoner spells from LoL.

THE PWNER fucked around with this message at Sep 12, 2013 around 19:28

Skyl3lazer
Aug 27, 2007

[Dooting Stealthily]



THE PWNER posted:

Well I gave it a try for 3 games and I think I'll pass. To me, it feels like a flavor of the moment genre cash-in that just dumbs down a lot of stuff while trying not so hard to mask it behind something that they claim is "unique," which in this case is the map. Basically the game is nothing you haven't seen before 10 times while also removing a lot of things that you have seen before without replacing them with anything. I literally had a heart attack and also threw up when I opened the item menu and it was "Not smite," and then I opened up the not-summoner-spell menu and saw like 10 summoner spells from LoL.

Yeah I can't disagree with this.

Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L L


THE PWNER posted:

Well I gave it a try for 3 games and I think I'll pass. To me, it feels like a flavor of the moment genre cash-in that just dumbs down a lot of stuff while trying not so hard to mask it behind something that they claim is "unique," which in this case is the map. Basically the game is nothing you haven't seen before 10 times while also removing a lot of things that you have seen before without replacing them with anything. I literally had a heart attack and also threw up when I opened the item menu and it was "Not smite," and then I opened up the not-summoner-spell menu and saw like 10 summoner spells from LoL.

The neat thing about summoner spells though is that you can have a maximum of three and can unlearn them at a cost mid-game.

It really does seem to be heavily inspired from it's predecessors but at least it's doing a lot of things better.

If I was gonna refer this as an MMO. I'd refer to it as a "EQ/WoW clone that isn't completely lovely like every other brand new MMO clone"

Jadaris
May 9, 2003

I am Leto, Lion of Atreides

killstealing posted:

It's really hard to find keys for this, I guess I'll never be able to finish up RickoniX' pro team.

Dunno if this is true or not but they were handing out codes like candy at PAX this year so here are a few that can be used 5 times each:

H5YK-M7N2-VCHF-VF8M

7ZHT-ZFY6-RPB3-E37P

nearly killed em!
Aug 5, 2011


I took a use from the second key.

Orv
May 4, 2011

"To. Ya' know. Stuff."
(Nazi Rank <3)


Dizz posted:

It really does seem to be heavily inspired from it's predecessors but at least it's doing a lot of things better.

Such as? Not trying to be a dick, genuinely want to know what you think it does better. It controls a bit slowly. The abilities are (almost) all cribbed from League, HoN or DotA with minor statistical or secondary effect changes. The itemization is terrible. Balance is horrendous, and while normally I'd ignore that as a beta issue, League still has occasionally questionable balance while being the most successful F2P game in existence, though they do a lot better these days. The map is not particularly great, being both too small and having too many hiding places. It has too many odd gameplay elements stacked on top of each other and they all fit poorly. All towers respawn. Finally, the beta is already full of people who will act like the shittiest people MOBA communities have to offer, which is just great.

Orv fucked around with this message at Sep 13, 2013 around 16:04

Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L L


Orv posted:

Such as? Not trying to be a dick, genuinely want to know what you think it does better. It controls a bit slowly. The abilities are (almost) all cribbed from League, HoN or DotA with minor statistical or secondary effect changes. The itemization is terrible. Balance is horrendous, and while normally I'd ignore that as a beta issue, League still has occasionally questionable balance while being the most successful F2P game in existence, though they do a lot better these days. The map is not particularly great, being both too small and having too many hiding places. It has too many odd gameplay elements stacked on top of each other and they all fit poorly. All towers respawn. Finally, the beta is already full of people who will act like the shittiest people MOBA communities have to offer, which is just great.

For starters, allowing players to switch their spells for a cost is infinitely better than being locked into them at hero pick, Having the jungle being spread all over the map means that Players either have to sacrifice middle map presence for exp/gold and the opportunity to harass their workers/capturing a well over the 2 haste camps and the parasite boss.

I'm not sure where you're coming about terrible balance but most of the heroes seem really really well rounded. The only hero I've heard that was terrible is Freia, whom I think got nerfed too hard because she was extremely broken in previous versions of the game.

Wards and map vision is also much better in this game as each player has a free ward on a 2 minute cooldown that can't be destroyed. You can see their wards and they can see yours, no sneakyness to it at all.

Economywise, the wells are also good in keeping your team in the game. Capturing theirs means they get less money and you get more for the time being.

Winning games are also a LOT harder now, when the Guardian is on it's last bar of health, it does more AOE moves and hits even harder, making it risky for a team to finish the game if the enemies are still alive. I've had a team where we kept winning fights due to that. We still lost due to not being able to push out far because we just didn't know how to handle enemy heroes.

Phoix
Jul 20, 2006
a jerk

I can't get past almost every character being limited by nothing but cooldowns. It makes laning feel so incredibly thoughtless.

RickoniX
Dec 4, 2005

A human or elf?

NO NOT A BADGER YOU GOON


Phoix posted:

I can't get past almost every character being limited by nothing but cooldowns. It makes laning feel so incredibly thoughtless.

Some are more egregious than others, Kindra and Fenmore are awful in lane but Desecrator Kel Raina and Dibs are all loving demons to lane against. I'd really prefer everyone to have some sort of resource mechanic but I don't feel like it hurts the game.

Symphonie
Dec 24, 2010

lol just flamestrike it idk


Dizz posted:

Wards and map vision is also much better in this game as each player has a free ward on a 2 minute cooldown that can't be destroyed. You can see their wards and they can see yours, no sneakyness to it at all.

Which is better because....?

One of the huge problems about League is that there's too much vision. Giving a team 5 free undestroyable wards every 2 minutes doesn't help that.

quote:

Economywise, the wells are also good in keeping your team in the game. Capturing theirs means they get less money and you get more for the time being.

How do they help keep you in the game? By themselves they're just a part of your regular passive gold gain that the opponents can interrupt. If the opposing team can capture yours, you're probably not in a position where you can capture theirs.

quote:

Winning games are also a LOT harder now, when the Guardian is on it's last bar of health, it does more AOE moves and hits even harder, making it risky for a team to finish the game if the enemies are still alive.

As opposed to most MOBAs where the living enemy team just lets you hit their base without interference.

Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L L


Symphonie posted:

Which is better because....?

One of the huge problems about League is that there's too much vision. Giving a team 5 free undestroyable wards every 2 minutes doesn't help that.

5 wards isn't enough for a game with bushes.

quote:

How do they help keep you in the game? By themselves they're just a part of your regular passive gold gain that the opponents can interrupt. If the opposing team can capture yours, you're probably not in a position where you can capture theirs.

You should never let the opponent get into a position where they can take one without a fight unless they killed you then I guess you just need to get money elsewhere or stop dying. Sometimes a game just goes horribly wrong and you can't do anything about it.

quote:

As opposed to most MOBAs where the living enemy team just lets you hit their base without interference.

Sometimes it's really REALLY hard to fight an enemy team that has a large advantage over you. in here you can actually put up a good fight and even get out of it ahead. You just gotta man up sometimes.

Orv
May 4, 2011

"To. Ya' know. Stuff."
(Nazi Rank <3)


Dizz posted:

5 wards isn't enough for a game with bushes.

My map complaint centers around the fact that everything in this game is bushes. There are so many bushes so close together that people vanish into the LoS fog every time you almost catch them. It also means that with the tiny lanes an entire team can suddenly materialize and murder you to death. Wards help with that, but you only have so many wards, and every exit into the lanes has a bush.

Orv fucked around with this message at Sep 14, 2013 around 05:43

Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L L


Orv posted:

My map complaint centers around the fact that everything in this game is bushes. There are so many bushes so close together that people vanish into the LoS fog every time you almost catch them. It also means that with the tiny lanes an entire team can suddenly materialize and murder you to death. Wards help with that, but you only have so many wards, and every exit into the lanes has a bush.

Yeah I think some of the bushes should connect together or something so a ward can reveal more from them like the long ones near the rightmost and leftmost spirit wells [if i remember it right].

I think a good buff to wards would be increasing their vision radius at least.

RickoniX
Dec 4, 2005

A human or elf?

NO NOT A BADGER YOU GOON


S Tier: Kel Moya Desecrator
A Tier: Dibs Amarynth Petrus Cerulean
B Tier: Nissa Mikella Fenmore Voluc Zeri
C Tier: Friea Varion
D Tier: Kindra Renzo

Thoughts

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Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L L


http://www.twitch.tv/waystonegames

They're streaming games and also giving out beta keys if anyone's interested.

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