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Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Going through S2 right now, at "Critical" at the moment.

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Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Zaggitz posted:

Is it really, though?


I really want to know the in-universe explanation for how Finch got a picture of Reese smiling for a dating website when he didn't know he was being signed up for one :colbert:

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
The numbers jump a little but some categories of predictions for Root include:

-Operational Relevance
-Violence
-Death: Asset
-Asset Activation
-Death: Carmichael, Ronald W.
-Death: Admin
-Crisis Averted
-Asset Captured
-Mass Casualty Event (what)
-Aux_Admin
-Marriage/Procreation
-Global Thermonuclear War :stare:

Also like the new design for the "inner" Machine, seems more like a neuron.

edit: goddamn it guys

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
I would like to point out it is absolutely fascinating that after playing good guy spec ops guy on The Unit for so many years, Max Martini seems to have been typecast as bad guy spec ops guy for a while now.

Also I would like POI to complete the set by getting Snake Doc, Cool Breeze, Hammerhead and Red Cap to guest star (okay maybe Whiplash too if you reeeally want). Oh and Robert Patrick, because why the gently caress not?

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Zaggitz posted:

Um, apparently the people in charge of the show just put the whole premiere up on youtube with audio commentary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFTApthzlP4

that's pretty loving nuts.
Maybe they can explain why it took Fusco so long just to get started on defusing the bomb :colbert:

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

ynohtna posted:

Reese has replaced Bear with Shaw: same diet & temperament, better at sniping.
Since when is Shaw ever happy to see Reese and then proceeds to slobber all over him? :colbert:

edit: oh god what did I do

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

LorneReams posted:

Shaw's an admitted sociopath right? I'm surprised she's actually agreeing not to kill. It must be a pain in the rear end for her.
I'm sure she's making the best of it. Still seems like she's having fun.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Kegslayer posted:

We haven't really seen an 'anti Machine' group. Having the machine sponsor anti machine groups and dissent as some sort of counter balance to people who would abuse the machine is a pretty interesting idea. The new group could just be another version of Reese and Finch's team.
Remember, PRISM apparently also exists in the POI-verse, so the Super Anonymous faction could just be a reaction to that. I doubt The Machine wants to make itself known (or is at all known as the show tells us). So honestly I'm not surprised they decide to go all militant on basically amounts to as a private-enterprise version of PRISM.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

KilGrey posted:

Does Shaw seem weird to anyone else? I mean, I understand what they are going for with her character and I'm fine with it but she just seems so different than what was presented to us last season. This season she seems so...feral whereas last season she seemed to have more finesse. I mean, she was a CIA operative, you'd think she'd have a concept of how to go under cover and infiltrate an office building or party without the rest of the crew worried about her not freaking out and killing anyone.
Maybe she's just having more fun with it since it technically is a step down from saving the world, so she doesn't have to take it as seriously as she normally would.

Also I think it's mostly Finch that just has issues with her more violent streak.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
I agree it just seems like people who get into this sort of trouble often have tons to lose, hardest to fall and all that. The fact most of these numbers usually are top of their fields, etc. just make them more likely targets and have more enemies.

That being said someone like Leon showing up constantly is probably The Machine going "it's a repeat and easily resolved" and more of a coincidence of the writing than anything else that whenever someone like Leon gets rescued he ends up helping the team for the episode.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
And there is much worse, the only way I can erase it from my mind is probably to walk into a sketchy bar and goad everyone into beating me to within an inch of my life.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Hersh just has the worst luck.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

raditts posted:

This makes me realize that if PoI went off the air, it's probably one of the few cases where I'd read a comic book follow-up.
Pushing Daisies :smithicide:

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
I thought the most unintentionally hilarious thing this episode was Simmons describing bath salts as the most :911: illegal narcotic.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Kwyndig posted:

Well in reality they're trying to save two different people, it just happens to be from the same situation. It really looks like the Machine is trying to work around the restrictions that Team Irrelevant is willing to work under.
I guess the theory we had last season with the Machine wanting to build a super team of other highly-capable individuals (Jason the super hacker, for example) to tackle something. That's what Root and Shaw were up to; guess by coincidence though Kirk Acevado's character was his foster brother, investigating his supposed death which stirred up (Eternal) Vigilance's attention enough to put him up at the top of the irrelevant list.

Isn't the group's name simply Vigilance? They just used that "eternal vigilance" quote from Ben Franklin to exposition their name.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Kai Tave posted:

The icing on the cake is that after he does it Shaw's just got this smirk on her face.

So if they tie off the HR plot for the midseason, what's that leave the showrunners in the plot bucket? Vigilance, obviously. We have Root and the Machine's relationship which is clearly being established in preparation for something. Haven't heard from Decima since last season and I'm wondering when/if we will again since their gambit to gain admin access failed. I guess if HR falls it'll be time for Elias to make his triumphant comeback.
I doubt the Machine will go for Elias, he likes to keep organized crime neat and tidy and under the radar, no blatant acts of violence to show anyone who's boss. If anything he'd keep the streets in order.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

muscles like this? posted:

They're calling the next three episodes collectively Endgame so it sounds like they might be closing out the HR story arc altogether.
Looking at the episode listings Endgame is the name of the next episode, then another two but it must be Endgame time for HR, which is weird/awesome if they named that arc.

It's Endgame/The Crossing/The Devil's Share, that might round out the mid-season finale by finishing the HR arc.


Fusco :ohdear:

Kai Tave posted:

Yeah, British not!Reese. Guess they could bring him back though he was only in the one episode so they'd need to catch people up on him ("Who was that guy again?").

Looking at the comments on other sites (I know, I know) it's pretty remarkable how frequently I'm seeing some variation of "This season sucks so far! And so does Shaw!" which I only expect to get worse if they really do go ahead and pull Fusco's card. I mean, fine, not everyone's going to like every character though I've dug the hell out of Shaw so far, but saying this season has sucked? Yeah, opinions and assholes, but really? Even as someone who's been watching this show from the beginning I'm forced to admit that it's improved notably since it first started and I'm failing to see the decline in quality that's got these people up in arms. I wonder what exactly they're looking for because, I mean, it's pretty much the same show it ever was.
Might be the same kind of people who don't give a poo poo about backstory/mythology - granted the procedural parts on their own are already drat strong, as are the serial arcs. I remembered when people got in a fuss because S2 ended with no number-of-the-week and was a three-episode arc on the goddamn premise of the show. Shaw is awesome, but I think people who hate her are Reese/Finch shippers who don't want anyone else in on team irrelevant.

I also don't want to read their fanfiction.

edit: Zaggitz how dare you type faster than me

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Zaggitz posted:

The one complaint I can get behind is the lack of Fusco in the early season, but this upcoming arc is clearly them fixing this horrendous mistake and Fusco will be fine and around more often than ever!


















:ohdear:
If they kill Fusco it still makes sense because his arc will have concluded, but they better not loving do it because I want him to just have awesome adventures with team irrelevant for as long as the show goes on. And also dat Fusco sass.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Yeah I figured after seeing the Endgame arc preview it was snippets of all three episodes, so instead of OMG FUSCO'S FATE in one and done, they get to twist the knife maybe for as long as the three weeks will allow.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Regy Rusty posted:

Yeah while Reese and Finch I'm pretty comfortable have plot armor, I at least think it's possible for one of the others to die, so this episode definitely sold the possibility of Carter dying. Though that would have been loving Breaking Bad level dark if she'd gotten shot right there.

Now back to worrying about Fusco.
I like how even though we know Reese has plot armour every time he's bound and has a gun pointed at him Caveziel plays him with that look that he's about to die and he's making peace with it knowing he can't get out of it.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Slamhound posted:

Yeah, that was my thought as well, but I really hope not. It's probably down to her or Fusco and of the two, I think I'd rather lose Fusco please don't kill Fusco. I could see this arc going either way; she burns her bridges and becomes like Reese and Shaw, or burns HR down and goes out on a high note please don't kill Carter. Though if she does become like Reese and Shaw, they could become redundant and lose their plot armor please don't kill Reese or Shaw.

All I know is the kevlar vest for Bear isn't foreshadowing because Bear is going to be just fine HE'S GOING TO BE FINE.
God I am going to loving crack over the next two weeks from suddenly life making me more busy but this is the final goddamn straw, especially if someone actually has to die. And the worst part is there is no cliffhanger, maybe the episodes after the mid-season will deal with it a bit but it's all open and shut.

ARRRRGHHHHH

Well at least they aren't pulling the bullshit they did last year with the John arrested by the FBI arc where they aired episodes with three week gaps in between.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Even when they run commercials for "SOMEONE WILL DIE", it usually just ends up being the recurring guest star.

I mean I'm sure the showrunners are willing to kill off a main cast member at some point but for it to be Fusco feels a little unearned since the last we touched on his arc was at the end of S2 just before God Mode. And seeing as the next episode is pretty much about John ending up on every thug's hit list and having to deal with it.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

DivisionPost posted:

A quick look to the future, if you care. This news got out a week ago but I'm only just getting wind of it. Camryn Manheim and Saul Rubinek will be stepping up for what's being touted as a big, emotional multi-episode arc in early 2014. Rubinek will play a brilliant man who is slowly losing his mind, while Manheim will play his wife. The two of them get caught up in some deep poo poo with Team Irrelevant, and the only way to escape with their lives is for her to get some crucial information out of him.

(Speculation based on spoilers.) Now, Camryn Manheim's name might not mean as much as it did 15 years ago, but she's still a name. And she's being touted for a big arc in 2014, just in time for HR to wrap up and Decima/Anonymous With Guns/The Relevant List to re-enter the picture? I'm not saying she's Control -- it doesn't even entirely line up -- but if that's where they're going, it wouldn't be the worst choice.
To be fair I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case but I'd be happy either way if it was just a pair of numbers that kept coming up or something. Either way I trust the showrunners. What I'm actually trying to say is the only person qualified to play Control is Alberta Watson.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

raditts posted:

She's come a long way since the Lifetime movie where she had to go to Korea to rescue her child from her kidnapper ex-boyfriend with the help of John Locke.
This sounds .... I want to say awesome, but you said Lifetime movie.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Fusco seemed like a likely target to be killed off, but it would've been cheap. I can see why Carter got it instead. Kinda pissed that Simmons gets away again, that slimy rat bastard.

But Carter dying means John will likely go full homicidal like he was before he met her.

God that was a grueling hour of television. Was on edge of my seat more for this than even the BB finale.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

I did think that the kiss thing was a little strange. What really bothered me is that they supposedly sent in all the HR goons to search the morgue. It was made out to be a big unwinnable situation, but Reese takes out two cops and lures a third one out, and then says the building is clear. Just three cops?

In this case, I think that Carter suddenly getting gunned down at the end does fit with the show. In the pilot, Finch does say something to the effect that he and Reese are both already dead men, and any number could be their last.
I assume a lot of cops sat outside other exits to siege the place, which is why Finch had to come personally. I can only assume Reese cleared the building of threats and ran out trying to lure the one guy out. Also we only ever saw the three cops but I wouldn't be surprised if Reese did Batman a bunch more. 15 bullets, remember?

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
The kiss wasn't romantic or anything, doesn't have to be. Not point in interpreting it that way. Besides, they were trading war stories just before that. Carter is basically the platonic version of Jessica. She gave Reese a reason to live, but you take her away, he is gonna go on the warpath (see: Jessica's husband). With Jessica it was different, he spiraled into his suicidal mindset (this was fairly obvious even during glimpses of his past in S1-S2) after her death. He still has Finch and the Machine but I'm certain this is what will make Reese go unhinged, even if only for a while.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Alkanos posted:

Now, the real question is why did the machine wait so long before making Carter's call?
Dramatic effect. But the Machine has been known to be a bit slow? Maybe it couldn't track Simmons until he popped up near the precinct John was at. Remember even pre-virus it was too late for Donnelly.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Yeah I loved that pilot callback, smiled when I immediately recognized it. Then Nolan and crew ripped out our hearts.

Kegslayer posted:

I wonder if Carter's death would cause Finch to reconsider his relationship with the Machine. If he had Root's 'intimacy', he could have easily prevented her death and that of several others.
I think the sequence with the Machine flipping through different cameras at super fast speeds pretty much proved Simmons was pretty much hidden up until the last second (walking by the precinct probably meant he got spotted on camera somewhere at the last possible moment). I doubt analog interface with the Machine would've helped much except give maybe 5 seconds extra notice (guessing it might've been enough, or not).

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Well from the interviews I've read she didn't want out but the showrunners pretty much told the cast they aren't always safe and she was fine with not having to sit on the show until it poo poo the bed but kept going. Although I doubt we'd ever see someone bite it during a 'routine' episode, which would be shocking.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Remember also with flashbacks that just because we 'resolve' their past (i.e. we see the big plot points) doesn't necessarily mean it isn't ripe to go back to. If the NYCC(?) teaser for S3 was any indication don't we see Finch when he is a kid on a farm or something? I could swear that would be him. Not sure where they'd go with that necessarily.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Kegslayer posted:

I hadn't thought of that and I wonder where the characters would go from here. Carter saved both Fusco and Reese but Reese was willing to let everything he had gained go in order to satisfy his desire for revenge. It's interesting to find that Fusco has had more growth than Reese.
Fusco has more to lose if he went back down a dark path. I mean, yeah Reese still has Finch and friends but him going unhinged merciless Terminator used to be how he lived for a long time.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

JossiRossi posted:

Before last night I think I would have said otherwise, but yeah that rear end in a top hat's rotting in a hole somewhere.
Well, she had stuff to dissolve people with at that home so that guy is probably just barely a puddle of goop.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Elias and his crew aren't people to stick their necks out, so the only way they become a threat is because Elias does something huge, which is not really his style. And Marconi (Scarface) has never been shown to be anything but loyal as hell. Would be interesting to see but they would have to start the fuse now seeing as it was never lit in the first place.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Kai Tave posted:

I first saw him in Flashpoint which is a Canadian police procedural-type show about (essentially) a SWAT team.

e;fb
Flashpoint is fantastic in that it's not all about the shooty-shooty bang bang. I mean it has it but that's not the central focus for a show about a SWAT team. So yeah I was kinda apprehensive that he was going to play a bad guy (since I only knew him from Flashpoint) but yeah he makes a pretty menacing mob dude.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Zaggitz posted:

I like how the Machine had PRISM listed as ACTIVE, DECOY along with a few others.
Also Hersh's first name! Bob of all things.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

SirMonkeyButt posted:

Quick question for the sharp-eyed viewers-
I think this was the first time that Collier or any of the Vigilance team were shown on a surveillance camera, or rather, through the machine's eye. Did Collier have a yellow box?
The only time he was on surveillance feed was the vehicle, and since S3 the vehicle box is coloured by whoever is in it. It was white, rather than yellow (Finch in his car nearby is a yellow vehicle box). If Collier does know he has never spoken about it for the Machine to know and update its records, although for Root I did notice in the S1 finale when she initially appears she immediately had a yellow box, so I don't know how that happened (unless the Machine also learned about her in S1 during "Root Cause" where she was offscreen the whole time).

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Sub Rosa posted:

But it also partly begs the question why John did take so long to check on Jessica after Ordos.

And so on. So I'm curious what everyone else's take is on that period.
I had the same suspicion earlier back when S1 was still on or just before S2 aired, but I forgot to check the dates, so by earlier this year I just assumed they happened fairly close to another (within 2-4 months).

This is definitely something the showrunners and writers didn't overlook; but I assumed the gunshot wound on the bus at New Rochelle was about the same spot Stanton shot him in Ordos, and John just sucks at tending to his wounds. Or I dunno, because the interpretation I got from him getting the call from Jessica just before he's sent to Ordos is that "I would move heaven and earth to see her again".

fake edit: The best I can offer is this page on the POI Wiki, (which is surprisingly good and not Wookiepedia levels of bad) but Jessica seems to die a few months before John arrives but she makes the phone call long in advance. But you are right, the gap between May 2010 and February 2011 is pretty drat big.

Sub Rosa posted:

So could Reese be referring to a different job he "quit"? Should we be expecting the show to go back that time in John's life? Zaggitz was suggesting (I think) that our knowledge of John's backstory was at least thematically complete, but I didn't agee. So should we expect something shocking from this year, or mostly just a filler story explanation of John hiding in China and eventually making it back to the US to try to find Jessica in a way that doesn't really change how we think about John's character?
I think his backstory is thematically complete (or at least you get all the big points that show his arc pre-Finch) but whatever the they have in store for if they want to reveal in that gap of time, I believe it will prove mostly only thematically relevant to the corresponding episode.

Sober fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 20, 2013

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
So yeah here is the promo for the next episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrU8l7Bi1j4

OH GOD IT RETURNS ON JANUARY 7TH.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
God you think the drives are destroyed and the arc is finished. Lesser shows would've saved the reveal for the finale, even lesser shows would've ended the arc right there and presumably gone back to case-of-the-week-what-season-long-story-arc? mode. Oh and I'm sure Reese isn't gone but drat, even after all that he just wants to be done with it.

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Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

DivisionPost posted:

This is a CBS procedural.
With the way they keep on going, I'd be surprised if they had to anymore. But then again, there are plenty of opportunities to foreshadow and start framing certain season/series-long themes even with a fairly benign number of the week. And honestly I wouldn't mind a break with a few weeks back to (mostly) business as usual for Team Irrelevant. But I feel like this is one show that seemed to climb out of it's "but it has to be procedural" nature that CBS likely imposes on most of the dramas it greenlights. Almost the same with Arrow on CW, it took a while but it stopped having to "use" relationship drama for the sake of it and just does what it wants.

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