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Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007

VOTE
FOR
PEDRO


Also pro tip: He nerfed the heavy Tri-tech fighters quite a lot and they're now slow as all gently caress. Like, Don't even attempt to get them to dogfight anything you're better off assigning them to guard yhour carriers or heavier stuff because they'll still shoot down everything that wanders too close with their beams.

The best fighters in the game are legit broadswords or thunders now because they're fast enough to not explode instantly, have well rounded weapons loadouts and aren't made of paper.

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VodeAndreas
Apr 30, 2009



Clapping Larry

Burno posted:

Can someone clear up CR and Logistics for me?

I have the logistics skill maxed and keep it at or below 100, but no ship will go over 80% CR, is that the max for CR? Is there any other way to increase the logistics cap?

80% is max CR for Elite crew.

And the Xyphos fighters were useless compared to Thunders in the last patch I felt also.

The CR system is really growing on me, the logistics system is still mystical powers I don't fully understand.

Edit:

Why CR is a good? thing



Paragon, Astral, Odyessy - all completely helpless as they ran away... I saw them get hit by the big Hegemony fleet and then went after them, they mounted several rounds of combat so I fled to the Hegemony station to regain my CR and re-engaged them out near the Tri-tach base before they could repair.

VodeAndreas fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Sep 16, 2013

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007

VOTE
FOR
PEDRO


As far as I can understand you have a hidden logistics number that is never shown to you anywhere, ships have a Logistics value that is totalled up and compared against said value, and if it's more then you lose some percentage of your CR and supply upkeep is increased.

Basically it's like the old command points thing but is now a percentage or something.

And yeah, Xyphos are just too slow to be viable interceptors. They're great as point defense fighters and they don't cost a lot to deploy but at the same time I feel like Broadswords are a much better investment now. They're just too slow to be effective at anything other than a guard role.

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009



I bought this yesterday, booted it up, played the tutorial and started a new game. Almost immediately I was assaulted by a fleet of pirate ships that blew me up in 15 seconds. Okay?

What the gently caress do I do in this game?

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND
Jan 21, 2008



I recommend playing the missions at first to get a feel for the combat, because the campaign can be really rough on a new player... especially because Alex hasn't made a tutorial for all the new campaign mechanics yet. You need to have strafing and shield movement in your fingers, sort of, because of how you will always be a lone wolf in the start of the campaign.

But in a nutshell: stay away from the big fish, eat the little fish, watch your supply level, and watch your combat readiness. The top-middle answers in the starting dialog will get you a Lasher or Wolf, which is a good starting frigate. Land on a station, sell your marines and stock up on supplies, then go around looking for Pirate fleets that have 1-3 ships in them, hopefully ones that have a combo of Hound-class frigates, Buffalo II-class destroyers, and Talon interceptors. If you get some more money, buy a few Hounds, they are great at distracting enemy ships and have nice cargo space. Don't be dissuaded, it's really rewarding to humiliate bigger fleets and slowly grow stronger, and everything is perfectly beatable if you pilot your ship well.

I wanna drop a hint for new players: if you think frigates like the Lasher are weak and unsatisfying, load one up with as many dual light MGs as you can fit and a pair of harpoons, then fit an Unstable Injector and max out your flux capacity.

Charge at other frigates, hug them, watch their flux max out in approx 1 second from your kinetic damage, and then plop some harpoons into them. You can kill basically everything below a Tempest and also kill Mules provided you dodge their Sabot SRMs. Point defense weapons do absolutely ridiculous DPS per flux and are lethal up close, and the AI tends to realize too late what you're trying to do. If you wanna feel like a true berserker go with Annihilators instead of Harpoons so you can keep murdering an endless succession of frigates.

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Sep 16, 2013

Exodee
Mar 29, 2011


Drone_Fragger posted:

The best fighters in the game are legit broadswords or thunders now because they're fast enough to not explode instantly, have well rounded weapons loadouts and aren't made of paper.
Gladius's (Gladii?) are really good now too. Their machine gun / pulse laser combo makes them deadly against pretty much anything and they don't need to restock much during a fight either. They're just as fast as broadswords, too.

Sephiroth_IRA
Mar 31, 2010



I kinda wish the frigates were more useful, I really like flying a fast ship but getting anywhere near a capital ship with a frigate means certain death. I would love to pilot an ECM frigate and disable a larger ship while my capital moves in to finish it off or a repair frigate/freighter that I could keep behind my armada for healing. Also I haven't seen a straight up missile boat yet, I'd love to be able to have some ships that do nothing but unload hundreds of tracking missiles.

I haven't played the campaign yet, do you guys recommend it?

Insert name here
Nov 10, 2009

Oh.
Oh Dear.



The Ironclads mod linked in the OP finally got me to buy this game despite reading about this back when it shared a thread with SPAZ, but it looks like it hasn't been updated for the latest patch yet. Oh well, I've been enjoying myself getting blown up in the campaign because I'm not very good. I did eventually get a Destroyer though (the one with the three energy hardpoints facing forward), put a huge rear end mining laser on it and went to work boring huge holes into enemy ships. Is it viable to just stay a solo ship or will I eventually have to build and maintain a fleet?

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?



Orange_Lazarus posted:

I kinda wish the frigates were more useful, I really like flying a fast ship but getting anywhere near a capital ship with a frigate means certain death. I would love to pilot an ECM frigate and disable a larger ship while my capital moves in to finish it off or a repair frigate/freighter that I could keep behind my armada for healing. Also I haven't seen a straight up missile boat yet, I'd love to be able to have some ships that do nothing but unload hundreds of tracking missiles.

I haven't played the campaign yet, do you guys recommend it?

Play the campaign, get the Buffallo II, you'll have your missile boat yet!

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007

VOTE
FOR
PEDRO


The best missle boat is probably actually the Dominator class because you can jam like 4 medium missle mounts onto it.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?



Drone_Fragger posted:

The best missle boat is probably actually the Dominator class because you can jam like 4 medium missle mounts onto it.

Well, if you wanna get all fancy about it..

Saint Celestine
Dec 17, 2008

Lay a fire within your soul and another between your hands, and let both be your weapons.
For one is faith and the other is victory and neither may ever be put out.

- Saint Sabbat, Lessons

Grimey Drawer

The discrepancy between running large ships and small ships is huge. I swapped out my Conqueror battlecruiser for two destroyers, and just a few battles later I have more supplies than I know what to do with and like 500,000 credits, whereas I was struggling to keep the fleet supplied while using the BC.

I imagine the proper thing to do is to level up sufficiently until you can support your fleet of smallships AND some freighters, THEN buy a battlecruiser. Not Wolf->Medusa->Conquest.

Saint Celestine fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Sep 16, 2013

chami
Mar 28, 2011

Keep it classy, boys~


Fun Shoe

Saint Celestine posted:

The discrepancy between running large fleets and small fleets is huge. I swapped out my Conqueror battlecruiser for two destroyers, and just a few battles later I have more supplies than I know what to do with and like 500,000 credits, whereas I was struggling to keep the fleet supplied while using the BC.

I imagine the proper thing to do is to level up sufficiently until you can support your fleet of smallships AND some freighters, THEN buy a battlecruiser. Not Wolf->Medusa->Conquest.

Pretty much, and always be open to piloting destroyers or frigates when you don't need to break out the battlecruiser to deal with other capital ships. Maintaining the big ships if you bring them out every time is murder on your supplies.

Saint Celestine
Dec 17, 2008

Lay a fire within your soul and another between your hands, and let both be your weapons.
For one is faith and the other is victory and neither may ever be put out.

- Saint Sabbat, Lessons

Grimey Drawer

chami posted:

Pretty much, and always be open to piloting destroyers or frigates when you don't need to break out the battlecruiser to deal with other capital ships. Maintaining the big ships if you bring them out every time is murder on your supplies.

I miss the previous version though, where I could run around with my fleet of 5 battleships and just roll through everything.

Gobblecoque
Sep 6, 2011


Insert name here posted:

The Ironclads mod linked in the OP finally got me to buy this game despite reading about this back when it shared a thread with SPAZ, but it looks like it hasn't been updated for the latest patch yet. Oh well, I've been enjoying myself getting blown up in the campaign because I'm not very good. I did eventually get a Destroyer though (the one with the three energy hardpoints facing forward), put a huge rear end mining laser on it and went to work boring huge holes into enemy ships. Is it viable to just stay a solo ship or will I eventually have to build and maintain a fleet?

You don't have to do any fleet-building, but getting some support ships (like the Mule and Gemini) and a small collection of frigates/fighters really really helps out. I've had some real nice success with deploying some cloaking capable frigates in my fleet. A Hound with unstable injector, augmented engines, and improved maneuverability is also pretty nice for pursuing. Not to mention how funny it is to watch the AI dodge loving everything in the game with it.

Also, I've been finding that the Mule and Gemini complement each other incredibly well. I got my Gemini equipped with two dual flak cannons and a phase charge launcher, which makes it pretty much deny any enemy fighters or missiles near it. Meanwhile, I've kitted out the Mule with a heavy mauler, sabot missiles, and railguns on the side to stave off destroyers and light cruisers as well as destroy frigates that stray too close. Have one escort the other and they make for a really strong focal point for your battles. I've also been thinking about throwing a Brawler into that group to give it extra punch against harder targets since it doesn't have the usual frigate time limit and its poor anti-missile/fighter capabilities would be covered by the Gemini.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007

VOTE
FOR
PEDRO


Saint Celestine posted:

I miss the previous version though, where I could run around with my fleet of 5 battleships and just roll through everything.

Which while fun, from a balance point of view is pretty terrible. The current system is an attempt to only commit what forces you think you need to win a fight. This is basically so fights lategame are still going to be interesting without becoming "commit 5 battleships to smash up a buffalo 2" repeatedly.

Skyl3lazer
Aug 27, 2007

[Dooting Stealthily]





So am I just supposed to restart whenever I lose my fledgling fleet? Like I'll get into a fight with 2 ships the same size as mine, my AI will die instantly doing a suicide run on both of their ships and then I'll get kited for the rest of the match. This has happened 5-6 times and there seems to be no option other than restarting and hoping for the best on the next run.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009



Hair Elf

Order your AI ships to escort your flagship, and they'll stay with you instead of running off ahead and dying alone.

Bold Robot
Jan 6, 2009

Be brave.


Skyl3lazer posted:

So am I just supposed to restart whenever I lose my fledgling fleet? Like I'll get into a fight with 2 ships the same size as mine, my AI will die instantly doing a suicide run on both of their ships and then I'll get kited for the rest of the match. This has happened 5-6 times and there seems to be no option other than restarting and hoping for the best on the next run.

Don't pick even fights early on. Stalk lone Buffaloes until you have enough credits to build a slightly better fleet, then take on the frigates.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?



Someone mentioned reducing the supply consumption by fighters, but I don't think he ever got around to it. I'm a complete idiot with this kind of modding, which file am I looking at to change something like that?

Vayra
Aug 3, 2007
I wanted a big red title but I'm getting a small white one instead.

Bold Robot posted:

Don't pick even fights early on. Stalk lone Buffaloes until you have enough credits to build a slightly better fleet, then take on the frigates.

Skyl3lazer posted:

So am I just supposed to restart whenever I lose my fledgling fleet? Like I'll get into a fight with 2 ships the same size as mine, my AI will die instantly doing a suicide run on both of their ships and then I'll get kited for the rest of the match. This has happened 5-6 times and there seems to be no option other than restarting and hoping for the best on the next run.

The early-game is incredibly harsh. I find it helps if you think of it like Dwarf Fortress or a roguelike and focus on learning from your mistakes. And remember, losing is fun!

That, and make sure you sell your marines and fuel at the start of the game for a lasher buddy or more supplies, and then go pick on lone freighters or pirates. It also might help for you to turn on the "your ships take half damage" option in the settings until you feel confident in your abilities and/or have a decent murderball of destroyers and whatnot going.

Alternately, you can mod in the ability to start with better ships. There's a mod called Tore Up Plenty in the official forums that exists for just that, IIRC.

edit:

THE BAR posted:

Someone mentioned reducing the supply consumption by fighters, but I don't think he ever got around to it. I'm a complete idiot with this kind of modding, which file am I looking at to change something like that?

Starsectore-core/data/ships/ship_data.csv

Open it with Excel or another spreadsheet program and it should be pretty clear. Adjust the value in the Supplies/day column and whatever fighter's row (fighters are at the top) to 0.5 or 0.2 or whatever.

Back up the file first.

Vayra fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Sep 16, 2013

Lowen
Mar 16, 2007

Adorable.


Skyl3lazer posted:

So am I just supposed to restart whenever I lose my fledgling fleet? Like I'll get into a fight with 2 ships the same size as mine, my AI will die instantly doing a suicide run on both of their ships and then I'll get kited for the rest of the match. This has happened 5-6 times and there seems to be no option other than restarting and hoping for the best on the next run.

Just save the game before fights. If you lose, reload. Needless to say don't use ironman mode.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

Keep it classy, boys~


Fun Shoe

Skyl3lazer posted:

So am I just supposed to restart whenever I lose my fledgling fleet? Like I'll get into a fight with 2 ships the same size as mine, my AI will die instantly doing a suicide run on both of their ships and then I'll get kited for the rest of the match. This has happened 5-6 times and there seems to be no option other than restarting and hoping for the best on the next run.

Have your AI-controlled frigate escort you (hit TAB to go into the command screen, select your AI ship and right-click on your ship) and focus on one enemy at a time, taking care to not get flanked. Getting flanked early on can be lethal, because it opens up your engines to enemy fire. Getting your engines disabled is an easy way to lose a frigate, and AI Hounds in particular love baiting lone frigates into exposing their engines to their Lasher allies.

Remember that you can pause at any time by hitting SPACEBAR. Use that to plan out your moves or to issue commands to your AI ships. Just be careful that you don't run out of command points. A lot of people suggest also using a Brawler as it doesn't suffer from frigate operational time limits, but I find the front-only shield and lack of point defense a liability against Pirate fleets that like to spam Salamander SRMs.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


A few quick tips:

Start with a Lasher. I know it's tempting to start with a Wolf but it has higher CR use per deployment and is really better once you're either very proficient with aiming and positioning or letting the AI use it. The Lasher is straight-forward and if you equip it properly, pretty nasty.

As you move up sizes of ships, I highly recommend the Sunder. I didn't use it much in previous patches due to the easy availability of Tri-Tach ships which outclass it in its intended role, but now it can really hold its own since its supply and CR requirements are fairly low.

chami
Mar 28, 2011

Keep it classy, boys~


Fun Shoe

Kenshin posted:

A few quick tips:

Start with a Lasher. I know it's tempting to start with a Wolf but it has higher CR use per deployment and is really better once you're either very proficient with aiming and positioning or letting the AI use it. The Lasher is straight-forward and if you equip it properly, pretty nasty.

As you move up sizes of ships, I highly recommend the Sunder. I didn't use it much in previous patches due to the easy availability of Tri-Tach ships which outclass it in its intended role, but now it can really hold its own since its supply and CR requirements are fairly low.

Sunders are amazing. My favorite ship to pilot in pursuit missions is a Sunder with a Tachyon Lance, with Lashers deployed off the left and right sides of the map to flank the enemy and keep them from getting between the Sunder and the retreating ships. There's no running from a 5000 range hitscan beam that disables your engines!

Bold Robot
Jan 6, 2009

Be brave.


What are you guys doing for fighters these days once you can afford whatever you want? Right now I am running with two wings each of Xyphos and Warthogs, with two Gemini as carriers. I feel like this might be overkill and maybe I should drop a couple wings and roll with some more frigates instead.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


Bold Robot posted:

What are you guys doing for fighters these days once you can afford whatever you want? Right now I am running with two wings each of Xyphos and Warthogs, with two Gemini as carriers. I feel like this might be overkill and maybe I should drop a couple wings and roll with some more frigates instead.

I am really liking Thunder fighters this patch. They're fast and have an Ion Cannon to disable systems.

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND
Jan 21, 2008





Uomoz helped me set up a system for Blackrock, and basically moved everything there. So I've been making it pretty.

Not 100% sure what to call the sun/system yet.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.


Kenshin posted:

I am really liking Thunder fighters this patch. They're fast and have an Ion Cannon to disable systems.

Thunders are really cool, but you want to back them up with some heavier stuff to actually finish the kills, and they'll get shredded by a lot of high-tech stuff since any combination of shields and lasers will wreck them. I've found Gladius wings to be pretty handy as punchy fighters, especially now that they don't have the deployment costs of a Destroyer, and Broadswords are still reliable friends even if the new mess that is fighter logistics punishes anything with more than two ships in a wing.

Lowen
Mar 16, 2007

Adorable.


Just as a warning to newbies, I've been going through the missions (I'm going down the list and I just completed The Hornets Nest) and I don't think they've been balanced for the new patch.

Some of them seem downright unwinnable without refitting your flagship or even the rest of your fleet. The first mission, Turning the Tables is fine though.

Saint Celestine
Dec 17, 2008

Lay a fire within your soul and another between your hands, and let both be your weapons.
For one is faith and the other is victory and neither may ever be put out.

- Saint Sabbat, Lessons

Grimey Drawer

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:



Uomoz helped me set up a system for Blackrock, and basically moved everything there. So I've been making it pretty.

Not 100% sure what to call the sun/system yet.

OOoo Pretty.

Flame112
Apr 21, 2011


So, I found a pirate fleet with two ships, engaged them and destroyed one and I have no idea where the other one is. I've captures all the nav buoys and sensors and whatever. Do I just retreat from battle if I can't find the guy, or what?

Edit: Nevermind, I finally got a message about the enemies being defeated.

Ratzap
Jun 9, 2012

Let no pie go wasted


Soiled Meat

Hakkesshu posted:

I bought this yesterday, booted it up, played the tutorial and started a new game. Almost immediately I was assaulted by a fleet of pirate ships that blew me up in 15 seconds. Okay?

What the gently caress do I do in this game?

I did much the same, bought the game on the back of these glowing recommendations and just tried it. I got through the first fight somehow but pretty beaten up then a huge swarm zoomed up while I was trying to figure out how to run away on the big map.

This does seem a pretty nice game though and I enjoyed SPAZ, so I'll do some missions and try again when I have a chance.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Bought this during the last thread and played through the tutorials and a few missions, then kinda dropped it since the campaign part was so unfinished (and I didn't have enough time to drill into the mods). Man, those pre-made missions got hard fast.

Very cool game. I think the only thing I'm worried about is that it's maybe a bit over-complex. It's got a lot of mechanics from all over the place, and if more stuff gets added before the game is done it could collapse under it's own learning curve. Like that frigate 3-minute countdown, it works as a mechanic but it's yet another element on the pile.

The Good Professor posted:

The early-game is incredibly harsh. I find it helps if you think of it like Dwarf Fortress or a roguelike and focus on learning from your mistakes. And remember, losing is fun!
Losing is fun when it's interesting. Beating your head against the first 5% of the game because the difficulty is inverse to how it should be scaled is not fun or interesting. In addition, I personally like the cool tactical fleet command part of the game more than the one-ship ace piloting part. And while you can mod the game start, I think it would be better to have the default be accessible to new players and have the super-hard challenge mode be the mod.


Not a major criticism since the game's not nearly finished. But if the campaign sticks with the small 1 or 2 ship start, I hope there's some better early-game content than hunting for the one or two weak targets that you can pick off while running from everything else. One thing I thought about is escort missions, while a pain in most games, this game would handle them pretty well. Between the good AI that can take care of itself in battles, and the battle setup of deployment & reinforcement, it would be really cool to have "mercenary" missions. Hire on as extra muscle in a Hegemony fleet that's attacking some pirates, protect a mining group, or escort a Buffalo that's running a trade route.

Dominic White
Nov 1, 2005



Early game guide, for those getting splattered immediately:

Step 1: Dock at the station
Step 2: Sell your Marines (only useful for rare capture opportunities) & Fuel (only needed for hyperspace).
Step 3: Buy a cheap-ish frigate. Equip it. Make sure you have enough change for the guns and refit.
Step 4: Use the 'rest and repair' option to fill up Combat Readiness.
Step 5: Undock, and hover around the system defence fleet. Let pirates hit it (they often do while trying to chase you). Usually they won't be destroyed outright, but limp off, wounded.
Step 6: Intercept small wounded pirate units. Blitz them, loot all the supplies you can, retreat to station, rest.
Step 7: Repeat until rich. If you manage to swoop in on a missile boat or carrier, you might come away with 200+ supplies. Sell most of them to make a shitton of money, buy another ship, repeat.

This sounds like a long process, but it's only about 15-20 minutes until you'll have 4-5 ships.

Unreal_One
Aug 18, 2010

Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.



Klyith posted:

Not a major criticism since the game's not nearly finished. But if the campaign sticks with the small 1 or 2 ship start, I hope there's some better early-game content than hunting for the one or two weak targets that you can pick off while running from everything else. One thing I thought about is escort missions, while a pain in most games, this game would handle them pretty well. Between the good AI that can take care of itself in battles, and the battle setup of deployment & reinforcement, it would be really cool to have "mercenary" missions. Hire on as extra muscle in a Hegemony fleet that's attacking some pirates, protect a mining group, or escort a Buffalo that's running a trade route.
Two of the things that have been promised is some sort of in-campaign mission structure and trade so that your start isn't gonna have to be "Cabela's Buffalo Hunter." As it is, though, it's definitely front loaded and kind of luck based.

Arrath
Apr 14, 2011


SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:



Uomoz helped me set up a system for Blackrock, and basically moved everything there. So I've been making it pretty.

Not 100% sure what to call the sun/system yet.

drat that's pretty

E: And just call it WIP Blackrock system if it gets you to release faster

2nd E: Oh what the hell? You lose your No Flux speed bonus anytime you have flux, even if you've let off the throttle and are coasting at your increased max speed. That sucks.

Arrath fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Sep 16, 2013

Gilgameshback
May 18, 2010



It strikes me that this game might benefit from a choice between a simulation-style campaign and an arcade-style one. Or just options to choose not to worry about combat readiness, fleet size, etc. I kind of miss the days of running around collecting half a dozen capital ships and laying waste to everything.

I appreciate where the game is going with the hardcore fleet management elements, but I don't think it needs to make them mandatory.

Unreal_One
Aug 18, 2010

Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.



Gilgameshback posted:

It strikes me that this game might benefit from a choice between a simulation-style campaign and an arcade-style one. Or just options to choose not to worry about combat readiness, fleet size, etc. I kind of miss the days of running around collecting half a dozen capital ships and laying waste to everything.

I appreciate where the game is going with the hardcore fleet management elements, but I don't think it needs to make them mandatory.

I definitely think a free skirmish mode to supplement the missions would be a positive addition, at the least. Especially if you could set up everything for both sides, so that one side could have an ace pilot commander with maxed combat aptitude and the other could have a leadership style commander.

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Martha Stewart Undying
Oct 22, 2012



So I bought this and completely forgot about it. Figured that with a new thread I would download the game to see how it's come along.



This game's shaping up to be pretty drat cool, guys.

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