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Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Insert name here posted:

People don't take kindly to being shot at, surprisingly enough

I guess it is a commission and not a mercenary gig.

Give me (long term) merc work. X cycle contract, Y flat per mont, Z per kill. No hard feelings and just business.

I知 really good at killing your dudes? Well my contract is up in six months, but I was thinking of reupping, the pay is good. You want to make a better offer?

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Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001

awoo



Frida Call Me
Sep 28, 2001

Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time



ah okay i hadn't settled on a deciv'd world yet. that's a pretty hefty stability penalty.

Vengarr
Jun 17, 2010

Smashed before noon


Oh man, that thing about creating stable locations in systems wasn't an April fools joke after all. Kickass.

Vengarr fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Apr 8, 2021

John_A_Tallon
Nov 22, 2000

Oh my! Check out that mitre!


Galaga Galaxian posted:

I guess it is a commission and not a mercenary gig.

Give me (long term) merc work. X cycle contract, Y flat per mont, Z per kill. No hard feelings and just business.

I知 really good at killing your dudes? Well my contract is up in six months, but I was thinking of reupping, the pay is good. You want to make a better offer?

I don't know why you'd think being a mercenary is any sort of moral fig leaf. You're killing people, and not even for a cause beyond cash. In most historic conflicts mercenaries are seen as, at very best, a distasteful necessity to shore up deficiencies in a deployed force. Usually they're seen and treated as little better than pirates or marauders. Nations remembering the particular atrocities either known or hinted at that your character inflicted on them makes sense. If anything it's probably too easy to recover good standing with the major powers in the sector.

Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.


Pillbug

Vengarr posted:

Oh man, that thing about creating stable locations in systems wasn't an April fools joke after all. Kickass.



only works if there aren't already 2 :/ I was hoping for nav, comm, AND sensor beacons.

Dee Ehm
Apr 10, 2014




Fleet looking spicy, is there such a thing as overkill in this game? I also have like three Colossi, 4 Hammerheads, a Medusa, a couple Salvage Rigs and some Phaeton tankers. I rarely ever bring my whole fleet to a battle and don't have the deployment points to, but I heard that having more ships gives you more deployment points in a fight anyways.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Apparently it is mostly based off officers now rather than fleet size but as long as you can supply it and wouldn't rather spend the money elsewhere you can do what you want. After a point the game stops being economically focused because you can print money at your colony.

Brandfarlig
Nov 5, 2009

These colours don't run.



There's a beta version of nexerelin on the discord by the way. Haven't noticed any bugs so far except for some bugged bar quests and I can't be sure that's from nex.

buglord
Jul 31, 2010




Buglord

I really hope this dude makes a whole lot of bank when he launches this game. Has he hinted on putting it on steam and such?

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


buglord posted:

I really hope this dude makes a whole lot of bank when he launches this game. Has he hinted on putting it on steam and such?
Yeah, he said he'll put it on Steam for the 1.0 release

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007




Grimey Drawer

buglord posted:

I really hope this dude makes a whole lot of bank when he launches this game. Has he hinted on putting it on steam and such?

NGL I値l probably just buy it again when he puts it on steam. He absolutely deserves it.

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Now that I'm starting to get into larger fleet engagements I'm finding my two SO hammerheads are starting to struggle, I need some decent DP-friendly ships to hold the line. The non-SO Hammerhead is doing a bit better, but still got sunk once. Honestly I'm thinking of ditching the Apogee as well, its an absolute tank, but it feels anemic offensively. Maybe I just need to refit it with a different loadout. Any suggestions? Here is my current fleet:


(Not pictured: two more LP Lashers that are mostly used for cheap filler or running downs stragglers after the main battle, as well as my personal Story-pointed Tempest).

I'm thinking of trying some Enforcers, I could even build XIVth spec Enforcers at my own system if I wanted to. Or maybe I could pick up another Falcon-P or two. But their missile heavy armament leaves the one I got with endurance issues (even after building in expanded magazines).

MarcusSA posted:

NGL I値l probably just buy it again when he puts it on steam. He absolutely deserves it.

If he doesn't give steam codes, I probably will too. If he DOES give steam codes I will not buy it... for myself, I'll buy it again, but for a friend.

SugarAddict
Oct 11, 2012


Edit the configs to increase the officer cap for you. The AI has no cap on officers and will happily poo poo on your fleet with 20+ alpha cored remenant ships, or 20+ level 5 and 6 officers if you're up against hegemony.

AtillatheBum
Oct 6, 2010

Justice ain't gonna dispense itself.


Yeah officers are really strong now. Even beyond the extra deployment points a level 5+ officer can make a given ship twice as hard to kill, it's kinda nuts. Fighting Remnant fleets with and without officer cores is like night and day. I think perhaps a way to spend story points to increase your officer limit is warranted at the very least, perhaps also a story point expenditure to respec officers as well.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Galaga Galaxian posted:

Now that I'm starting to get into larger fleet engagements I'm finding my two SO hammerheads are starting to struggle, I need some decent DP-friendly ships to hold the line. The non-SO Hammerhead is doing a bit better, but still got sunk once. Honestly I'm thinking of ditching the Apogee as well, its an absolute tank, but it feels anemic offensively. Maybe I just need to refit it with a different loadout. Any suggestions? Here is my current fleet:


(Not pictured: two more LP Lashers that are mostly used for cheap filler or running downs stragglers after the main battle, as well as my personal Story-pointed Tempest).

I'm thinking of trying some Enforcers, I could even build XIVth spec Enforcers at my own system if I wanted to. Or maybe I could pick up another Falcon-P or two. But their missile heavy armament leaves the one I got with endurance issues (even after building in expanded magazines).

More hammerheads.

Seriously the hammerhead is probably one of the best destroyers in terms of cost effectiveness and versatility so if they aren't doing well you probably just need more of them. Enforcers are good too but the problem is likely not that your ships are wrong but that you simply don't have enough of them.

Nalesh
Jun 9, 2010

What did the grandma say to the frog?

Something racist, probably.

Main thing I hope for with a 1.0 release is a modding api that lets mods stop scripts etc gracefully so you can update even big mods mid game.

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


OwlFancier posted:

More hammerheads.

Seriously the hammerhead is probably one of the best destroyers in terms of cost effectiveness and versatility so if they aren't doing well you probably just need more of them. Enforcers are good too but the problem is likely not that your ships are wrong but that you simply don't have enough of them.

I can only deploy so many at once! Usually I'm getting a 120-140 to the enemy's 180-160 DP split. I think I might need to swap out the SO Hammers for ones with more ranged ability. Decided to build a XIVth Enforcer (2HVD, 1 Mauler, 2 flak, atropos racks) and try it out, see how things go. Also dragged a Fury I forgot I had sitting in storage out and slapped SO on it. Tempted to pick up a second Heron, even if I won't necessarily deploy it too often (both Herons would be roughly a third of my initial DP)



I'm seriously starting to consider installing a command center on my Champion as my third built-in, I find myself using command points a lot more lately.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Unfortunately points kind of correlate pretty well to ship effectiveness and the hammerhead is also probably one of the most point-effective ships too, in no small part because the ammo feeder lets it punch well above its weight.

To the degree that ship numbers still contribute to deployment ratios, simply having more ships in the fleet will let you deploy more ships too, even if it doesn't let you deploy all of them. Failing that maxing out your number of officers will give you more deployment points too, and capturing the battle objectives in larger engagements will also let you call in extra ships.

A nice thing about destroyers is they can usually take up a bit of extra DP you have left over after picking your desired caps and cruisers.

Gobblecoque
Sep 6, 2011


Galaga Galaxian posted:

I guess it is a commission and not a mercenary gig.

Give me (long term) merc work. X cycle contract, Y flat per mont, Z per kill. No hard feelings and just business.

I知 really good at killing your dudes? Well my contract is up in six months, but I was thinking of reupping, the pay is good. You want to make a better offer?

Y'know pretty much this exact thing was one of my favorite parts of Mount&Blade.

LegoMan
Mar 17, 2002

ting ting ting



College Slice

OK I am bad at this game because I cannot kill the zigg even on easy. What comp/loadout do you guys recommend because my onslaught/2xlegion/3xherons are not cutting it

Brandfarlig
Nov 5, 2009

These colours don't run.



Fast cruisers with a shitload of beams and missiles. And then you reload until the AI fucks up and forgets to dodge everything perfectly. Or you force it to unphase on top of a reaper if you have a harbinger.

Edit: most capitals are useless since they can't keep up. Fighting phase ships just sucks in general though so of course fighting a boss version sucks more.

Brandfarlig fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Apr 8, 2021

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Phase ships are almost ideally countered by the HIL, though that specific encounter obviously has extra bullshit attached which prevents the normal strategy of pointing HILs at them from extreme range until they are forced to back off or eat poo poo.

There isn't really anything you can do to stop it from killing ships, you just have to somehow manage to get enough firepower close to it. HILs again are great weapons but how you get them there is open for debate.

More broadly though, kinetic damage is entirely useless so refit your ships to use nothing but HE/frag damage if you haven't already. There is a large element of luck given that the flow of the battle is dictated by the behaviour of one specific AI.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Apr 8, 2021

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?




Galaga Galaxian posted:

Now that I'm starting to get into larger fleet engagements I'm finding my two SO hammerheads are starting to struggle, I need some decent DP-friendly ships to hold the line. The non-SO Hammerhead is doing a bit better, but still got sunk once. Honestly I'm thinking of ditching the Apogee as well, its an absolute tank, but it feels anemic offensively. Maybe I just need to refit it with a different loadout. Any suggestions? Here is my current fleet:


(Not pictured: two more LP Lashers that are mostly used for cheap filler or running downs stragglers after the main battle, as well as my personal Story-pointed Tempest).

I'm thinking of trying some Enforcers, I could even build XIVth spec Enforcers at my own system if I wanted to. Or maybe I could pick up another Falcon-P or two. But their missile heavy armament leaves the one I got with endurance issues (even after building in expanded magazines).


If he doesn't give steam codes, I probably will too. If he DOES give steam codes I will not buy it... for myself, I'll buy it again, but for a friend.

Your apogee feels anemic because it's running two support weapons in its main slots - very good support weapons, but still not great killers solely on their own merits. Drop the HIL and Locust for a TachLance/Plasma Cannon and a hurricane MIRV if you want an apogee that is also a killer. It has the Flux stats to support the Plasma so that's the ideal choice imo.

EDIT: The way you're running the HIL on your champion is how you want them run, for reference - they need something like those HVDs to crack shields for them. Once shields are down they tear through armor and hull, but if the shield is up they're just wasted flux unless you get funny with beam scatterers.

Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Apr 8, 2021

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


according to the patch notes / starsector forums, the AI technically does has a 10-officer limit, it's just able to exceed it through the recruitment of mercenary officers -- you're expected to be doing the same thing to keep up (and then I guess Remnant are just supposed to be bullshit -- it doesn't say anything about them, but AI cores don't count against your limit, so...)

that said, that sounds to me like an extremely optimistic view of the story point economy, i'm not spending precious upgrade materials on a one-year contract lol

LegoMan
Mar 17, 2002

ting ting ting



College Slice

I tried a bunch of Eagles/Falcons but I think I made the mistake of putting PD lasers in empty slots to try to pop the motes out of the sky. They now spend most of their time maneuvering away from the ship trying to pop motes. Why can't I just force them to engage at point blank range.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


LegoMan posted:

I tried a bunch of Eagles/Falcons but I think I made the mistake of putting PD lasers in empty slots to try to pop the motes out of the sky. They now spend most of their time maneuvering away from the ship trying to pop motes. Why can't I just force them to engage at point blank range.

in fairness distracting the motes is an important job, just pick a ship with high damage and mobility to pilot yourself and blast it while they're distracted

OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013


Bring a harbinger or two with antimatter blasters or phase lances (if you're piloting, use AM blasters and safety overrides). Makes the fight way easier. He might send motes after you while you're phased so lure the mores into friendly ship shields to get rid of them, so you can uncloak and get rid of flux before going back in. The system disruptor and AM blasters do a real number on the boss

As far as tanks to bring, I think Auroras with Hardened Shields are nice in any fleet including the boss fight. Fast, well-defended, deep flux reserves and strong weapons.

OctaMurk fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Apr 8, 2021

Insert name here
Nov 10, 2009

Oh.
Oh Dear.



Speaking of deployments, I always feel like I bring either too much light assets or not enough. I'm never quite sure on the ratio of capital/cruiser/destroyer that I should deploy.

Scikar
Nov 20, 2005

5? Seriously?



Galaga Galaxian posted:

Now that I'm starting to get into larger fleet engagements I'm finding my two SO hammerheads are starting to struggle, I need some decent DP-friendly ships to hold the line. The non-SO Hammerhead is doing a bit better, but still got sunk once. Honestly I'm thinking of ditching the Apogee as well, its an absolute tank, but it feels anemic offensively. Maybe I just need to refit it with a different loadout. Any suggestions? Here is my current fleet:


(Not pictured: two more LP Lashers that are mostly used for cheap filler or running downs stragglers after the main battle, as well as my personal Story-pointed Tempest).

I'm thinking of trying some Enforcers, I could even build XIVth spec Enforcers at my own system if I wanted to. Or maybe I could pick up another Falcon-P or two. But their missile heavy armament leaves the one I got with endurance issues (even after building in expanded magazines).

Your fleet is very killy, but it lacks sustained kinetic damage to win the flux battle. Your kinetic weapons there are the HVDs (very good, only 2 across the fleet though), railguns (also solid, but again only 2), sabots (lots of these always good, but ammo doesn't last long especially on the small mounts), and light MGs (no problems there except for very short range). It probably works fine against low tech pirates because the SO Hammerheads can flank their 180 degree shields. The amount of HE damage you've got will also make enemies very reluctant to lower their shields, so the sabots will hit shield a lot and low tech ships with high flux/damage will overload easily from that.

Against midline it might have enough burst kinetic to drop a few key targets early, then just overwhelm whatever remains. Assault Chainguns on SO Hammerheads can still brute force their way through a lot of things, and if they can get close enough to bring the LMGs in that is plenty of kinetic output. But high tech is a serious problem - typically high tech ships can take a salvo of sabot to the shield without overloading, unless you prime their flux a bit first with another kinetic source. They have the agility to evade your Hammerheads, and wide angle omni shields to react to a flank anyway.

This is where the flux/damage ratio of your weapons comes in. Bear in mind when working out the flux battle you need to multiply this by the damage ratio vs shields. So HVDs look mediocre at 1.27, but there's a price for range, and they're kinetic so vs shields it's effectively 0.64. The EMP effect encourages enemies to shield the hits and take hard flux instead of catching them on armour. A light dual machinegun is 0.12 flux/damage, so effectively 0.06 vs shields, which is incredibly good! And it has 50% more DPS than a HVD as well, from a small mount! 300m range is obviously a big drawback and they are unremarkable as PD. But they are very effective on fast frigates and SO destroyers, even though it's not obvious because typically the ship's main weapons are already firing when they get into range. An Assault Chaingun is 500 DPS on 0.8 flux/damage, but when you actually use them they are noticeably inefficient (though effective). That's because they are really 1.6 flux/damage against shields, and they have low damage per shot which has worse returns against stronger armour. So again - very killy, but falling off as you come up against higher tech and stronger fleets.

The good news is there are many ways you can fix it. You can use more HVDs on ships in a support role (a lot of stock "Close Support" fits do this), but officer temperament can cause you problems if you're not careful with the ranges of other mounted weapons. HMGs instead of ACGs on Hammerheads will give them a bit more kinetic reach, and they don't have wasted range by SO. Needlers are very strong but cost a lot of OP so they make a ship quite specialised. Lashers can take railguns on the turret mounts well to give you more of those, and autocannons are viable on their hardpoint mounts (though underwhelming).The Locust on your Apogee could be a Squall, which is still ammo dependent but they tend to last a good while. You can look at more energy weapons too if you're worried about causing yourself new problems vs low tech, but just keep in mind they are usually not very flux efficient to begin with, and energy damage has no bonus against shields to mitigate it. Energy weapons vs shields are the purest form of the flux battle, sheer brute force by having better flux stats than your opponents. That puts you at a clear disadvantage against a high tech fleet, which is also energy heavy but with better flux stats on average than your midline/low tech ships.

abrosheen
Oct 28, 2010


How exactly do you successfully install the comm sniffer in Aztlan for the story mission? I tried stealthing in with a single phase frigate and no dice.

For that matter how do you accomplish literally any of the stealth missions?

TastyAvocado
Dec 9, 2009


oops

OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013


abrosheen posted:

How exactly do you successfully install the comm sniffer in Aztlan for the story mission? I tried stealthing in with a single phase frigate and no dice.

For that matter how do you accomplish literally any of the stealth missions?

I blew up all the hegemony fleets in the area, no one can see you place the comm sniffer if no one is alive

El Spamo
Aug 21, 2003

Fuss and misery


Ah yes the "Eversor" method

Ceebees
Nov 2, 2011

I'm intentionally being as verbose as possible in negotiations for my own amusement.

What market do you sell BPs or colony upgrades to, in order to get the scrubs to actually install them? Main, military, or black market? I've been trying to bootstrap up a faction by giving all their major worlds nanoforges, but i still see them sitting in the shops a cycle or two later.

Vengarr
Jun 17, 2010

Smashed before noon


abrosheen posted:

How exactly do you successfully install the comm sniffer in Aztlan for the story mission? I tried stealthing in with a single phase frigate and no dice.

For that matter how do you accomplish literally any of the stealth missions?

You can move the patrols out of position by shooting off a sensor burst. They値l go to check your last known position, giving you an opening.

You can also destroy/capture the sensor buoy in the sector. It adds 700 sensor range to all Hegemony fleets which is pretty huge. This will tank your Hegemony rep, but also, gently caress the Hegemony.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


What are some of people's favorite low-tech flagships? I'm a little burnt out on the high tech blaster boat and phase ship lifestyle -- they're fantastic but I do them every game.

Midline suggestions would also be acceptable as long as they're ballistic platforms.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

What are some of people's favorite low-tech flagships? I'm a little burnt out on the high tech blaster boat and phase ship lifestyle -- they're fantastic but I do them every game.

Midline suggestions would also be acceptable as long as they're ballistic platforms.

Unironically Atlas MK2. It's a glass cannon, and I wouldn't deploy it against the remnant, but it's really fun to play. Special shoutout to safety override Dominator. It's got... issues... but can do some really silly poo poo.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


well that's an easy sell, the Dominator is already one of my favorite low-tech ships for both function and looks. thanks

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Vengarr
Jun 17, 2010

Smashed before noon


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

What are some of people's favorite low-tech flagships? I'm a little burnt out on the high tech blaster boat and phase ship lifestyle -- they're fantastic but I do them every game.

Midline suggestions would also be acceptable as long as they're ballistic platforms.

Eagle or Legion. Low-Tech tends towards heavily-armed floating rocks. Unless you have a commander mindset, piloting them can be a little dull since you池e just holding the line while your hard-hitting ships clean up.

Legion alleviates this by giving you wings of strike craft to play with. You池e also heavily armed and armored enough that you can use its burn drive for mad banzai charges to exploit openings. Take care that this doesn稚 get you killed.

Eagle is a midline jack-of-all-trades that can hold the battle line or roll up a flank depending on the situation, the load out, and your particular play style. If you can find a 14th Battlegroup version, even better. I have a hard time not taking one every game.

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