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Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

GruntyThrst posted:

Edit: I was thinking about how best to plan out some Starsector 101 videos and the thought crossed my mind that it would be useful to have some dummy ships to blow up. Like the Simulator except with AI disabled. Anyone know if there's a mod for that?

Hrmm. I don't know if there is a mod like that, but I think it'd be possible to make some "new" ships that don't have engines or shields. Though, I'm not much of a modder, so I don't know how hard that'd be.

Also. Jesus Uomoz's mod crashes a lot for me. It seems to like crashing a lot if you... well. Delete a Variant type that ships in your fleet are currently using? Though I think I need to test that.

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Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Pretty much my feelings on the game are the same. Its awesome, weapons are pretty balanced, and each (original) faction needs a different set of weapons to deal with. Trying to take on low-tech Hegemony ships with the same loadouts that are good against High-tech ships and vice versa is just painful.

Still, mid-tech fleets are the easiest for the same reasons - they are not really "resistant" to pretty much anything, and sort of making for easy kills.

I forgot how addicting this game was.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Awesome to hear!

Mostly because I want to play Blackrock in Uomoz, but... getting a fleet off the ground is so drat hard in that system >.>

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

So far... it takes me about 3-4 new games to get one where my starting fleet isn't gobbled up by a death fleet before I get to a gravity well.

It'd be nice if that part didn't happen >.>

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Gobblecoque posted:

A lot of the guys behind some of the factions have fallen behind in actually updating there mods, some folks just get tired of modding. Uomoz seems to want his mod to actually be a really solid thing with lots of its own features rather than just the crazy compilation mishmash that it used to be way back when.

Which sucks sometimes! Since one of my absolute favourite fleets were the Lotus Conglomerate . They were fast, light armoured ballistic and missile armed ships. They usually had about half the armour of the midtech ships, a good amount of speed over them, and my favourite capital ship - the Vanquish Class. Mostly because it was a mid to close range capital ship with flight bays, which made me actually want to use fighters.

But they've been out-of-date for almost a year now. Didn't even make it to ship systems :(

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

So much campaign stuff! It'll be nice to get back into the game once thats in.

On a different note, is anyone else comfortable with the amount of supplies that logistics take up? I was finding that getting anywhere with a fleet well... ended up eating through my savings, to the point where it took me forever to actually get to a mid-sized fleet, or just get something other than a bunch of frigates.

On my end, I've taken to halving the cost of Logistics. The repair costs are prohibitive, but that makes sense to me. Just combat got to the point of being... too expensive to be worth it sometimes. I would lose money by fielding ships.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Tanith posted:

Someone hurry up and make a Khergit faction with forward-fixed antimatter lances, built-in unstable injectors and lots of turrets.

In Starsector, or add that to Mount and Blade? Cause its an awesome idea in both.

Also, there was a faction that was very Khergity a while back, called Lotus Conglomerate. By far were my favourite faction. Ballistics and Missiles, low armour, high speed and a lovely rust colour.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:

Yeah, it's strange how you take a lot of features for granted now that just weren't there a year or two ago, like ship systems, built-in weapons, character skills, CR, etc.

I remember how poo poo the Onslaught was when it didn't have TPCs and couldn't Burn Drive... although the pre-ship systems Omen takes home the shitship award.

I remember a mod compilation that included them post-systems, and they just threw on a bunch of basic systems for the ships (ammo-reloader, burn drive, missile reloader etc) which gave them a bit more life. I just miss them because they're my rose-tinted favourite faction.

And yeah. A big change to me is just how viable some ships became from systems, or just how much they benefited from slight AI changes or loadout variations. I have lost count of how many times I've forgotten that Buffalos can be dangerous early game when they panic and fire all of their missiles.

Though with the Onslaught, I am pretty sure it had two large ballistic slots that were replaced by the TPC's, so that didn't change too too much.


Strumpie posted:

If so, that means I've been playing this game for years and years without realising as it feels like I played with them not too long ago.

I haven't ever been frustrated with the pace of development either, weird.

Wow. Same. I found out about this game in like... my 4th year of University, and got all my friends to play it. That was a whilllle ago. Probably the best $10 I've spent on a game.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Teledahn posted:

I may be being somewhat incompetent, but how do I find what I need to put in the Starsector folder?

Yeah. this was a nightmare to do. So, find out where your Java is. Then open up in Starsector-core folder, and look for a starsector.bat file. Open it with Edit.

Then paste this in

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre7\bin\java" -Djava.library.path=native\windows -Xms1024m -Xmx1024m -Dcom.fs.starfarer.settings.paths.logs=. -Dcom.fs.starfarer.settings.paths.saves=..\saves -Dcom.fs.starfarer.settings.paths.screenshots=..\screenshots -Dcom.fs.starfarer.settings.paths.mods=..\mods -classpath janino.jar;commons-compiler.jar;commons-compiler-jdk.jar;starfarer.res.jar;starfarer.api.jar;starfarer_obf.jar;jogg-0.0.7.jar;jorbis-0.0.15.jar;json.jar;lwjgl.jar;lwjgl_util_applet.jar;jinput.jar;lwjgl_test.jar;log4j-1.2.9.jar;lwjgl_util.jar;fs.sound_obf.jar;fs.common_obf.jar;xstream-1.4.2.jar com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher

The "C:\Program Files..." part should be where your Java is, so the Java\jre7\bin\java should probably be the same, except for where it is on your computer.

The -Xms1024m -Xmx1024m part can be edited for how much ram (I think) you want to allocate. 1024 is pretty good, since the base is 512 and Out of Memory errors happen a lot, so you prolly want to up it.

If you want 2048, it'd be -Xms2048m -Xmx2048m

So yeah, fix the relevant parts and just copy-paste that over whatever else is in the starsector.bat file, and when you want to launch the game, just run that file, and it'll load (with a little command thingy open) with all the edited stuff. Made a big difference for me.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Teledahn posted:

Oh, of course, it's so obvious now. Thanks!

Its definitely an intuitive change that everyone should be able to instantly recognize!

I didn't even know it wasn't running in 64 this morning, and it only took me two hours to figure out, while looking at the guide, what the hell I was supposed to do. I hope Alex fixes this in the new build, since its really an important fix.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:

http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8201.0

This is happening right now, in case anyone wants to join the spergery :unsmigghh:

Oh thank god there is still a blackrock space open. Time to sperg!

E: Nope, last post in the thread is more Blackrock. My day is ruined ;_;

Brainbread fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Sep 8, 2014

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

So. Because I love Lotus Conglomerate so much I've been fixing and updating them from a pre-systems Era to actually working in the main game. Some minor issues arose, like, missing random sound files but the core mod is working again (woo).

Now, I just need to rifle through other mods to figure out how they integrate into Exerlin and beat my head over that. I would say "wish me luck" but I have zero experience in this field so I have no idea.

Its fun tho!

Edit: Apparently editing in burn values to the ships breaks it! I am so confused. I like how it worked for 5 minutes perfectly then just stopped ;_;

Brainbread fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Sep 18, 2014

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Thanks Zudgemud. I've got it working, and updated. This time without it crashing constantly. I'm gonna go through the fleet lists and make them a bit more consistent. I'll see if I can get a hold of Dante80 and see if they're ok with me posting it again.

Balance on the otherhand will take a while.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Zudgemud posted:

More patch notes here, can't wait to play around with this.

Heeeeee! The removal of daily supply costs is such a nice change. Its no longer expensive to just own ships, and faster reaper torpedoes! They really needed it.

The removal of burn bonus from Unstable Injector makes sense, since i tended to just dump it on all of my freighters so I didn't have a terrible fleet speed.

Though, the change to reduce salvage from combat fleets will be strange. In my experience, supply fleets are usually something you kill early game for money, and then you graduate onto the bigger fish. Will hunting supply fleets all game long for extra cash be fun? Though, I guess it depends on how much less salvage you get from combats. CR and repairs + a bit is usually good, but I wonder if it'll even be that much.

Anyways, super excited.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Dominic White posted:

You can really see why this next version has taken so long. There's about a hundred new systems in there, all interconnected. Unless they all get rolled out together, you'll end up with a horrible mess and nothing stable for modders to work with for months.

So, pretty much the problem that Mount & Blade has. And since Alex is a fan of the game, I can see why he's trying his best to not be it =P

E: For anyone who doesn't know, Mount & Blade comes out with minor updates fairly often. Except they change almost inconsequential things and completely break very popular mods. So most people just forgo updating the game until the mods are updated as well, since they're a thousand times more important than the base game. They also usually fix the things that the later updates fiddle with.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

DatonKallandor posted:

If you have a fast firing missile active ability the Pilums are the scariest missiles in vanilla, mainly because they have a lot of ammo.
The reaper changes from the patch notes are nice, but I think they could take some inspiration from classic WW2 torpedo usage - long reloads, lots of ammo, basically infinite range, unguided and fired in spreads. Something to keep the PD busy and force the other side to dodge (so the opposite of how you use torpedoes right now - point blank and after you've disabled the PD).

As it stands, thats sort of the issue I have with most missiles, especially against capital ships. They have so much drat PD that you pretty much have to overload them to get your torpedoes for missiles to hit. Though, with 10 points into Missiles in the Combat tree, they are really really good. Torpedoes go fast enough that PD can't put enough damage in when you fire them at short-medium ranges, and Pilums are as fast as Harpoons.

If those bonuses stay the same, missiles will be extra fantastic in the coming patch. I'm pretty excited for missile boats.

Also, has anyone used the anti-PD upgrade for missiles? I've looked at it, but never used enough ships with missiles on them to make it seem worthwhile.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:

Not really. You don't find fast missile racks on a ship that can't mount medium or larger missiles, and all pods/LRMs/big Reaper launchers are limited by reload time as well as ammo. Small missiles are chiefly limited by ammo becuse they're supposed to reward reading the situation correctly, so pumping 10 Harpoons into an overloaded ship is a legit strategy on a small frigate. Next patch the AI will also wreck you if they have finisher missiles, possibly making SRM and MRM on frigs a better strategy.

Basically, missiles are high risk, high reward weapons because it allows them to be individually powerful without being overpowered, and creates a weapon class where you're concerned with the state of your target, as opposed to just spamming away (there are still spam missiles, annihilators and LRMs, though) The one mod ship based on spamming vanilla missiles we ever saw got deleted from SS+ from being flat out broken if you have more than three or four in a fleet, and it was a slow, vulnerable ship with ludicrous logistic costs. Missiles simply add up too well in numbers.

The mining Carrier... well. Feels a lot like that. It comes with a missile reloader and two Medium Missile slots (for Pilums, really). I was playing with that and a fighter fleet (Lotus stuff, since he ok'd me touching it up), and... well. It wrecks a lot of things. You can just pump out so many missiles with it so quickly that its a threat to even capital ships. Its sort of the reason why I pulled missile reloader off everything in Lotus - they have lots of missile slots and its honestly unfair.

I'll probably go to the Heavy capital ships and swap its missile slots to something else as well. Its... got a bit too many.

Brainbread fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Oct 1, 2014

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

OwlFancier posted:

If low ammo missiles were much cheaper I think they would be a better option, being able to just fire off a couple of missiles at the decisive moment would add a lot of flexibility to a well designed ship as well as a really nice extra boost to a player ship, but you would need a regular complement of weapons to make that viable, and you can't really have that with the current one shot price points.

I always made an effort to at least put a single-shot missile into the small missile slots on frigates because of that - they're really situational, but spending 1 OP on something that can turn the tide of a battle is worth the point. In late-game, I swap them to torpedoes for the same reason. Those ones in particular are super cheap, invaluable, and at least you're not wasting a slot. Lashers come to mind with this - to make them as a sustainable ship, you need to load up on Caps/Vents, but not putting at least one missile in the small slots is a waste.

If the AI would stop killing themselves with Reapers, I'd probably use those but I'm not sure if thats ever gonna happen. It would be really nice if the AI would recognize that there were no Cruisers/Battleships and freely use their heavy ordinance on frigates though.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:

Single shot Reapers 4 life

Too bad Expanded Missile Racks doesn't apply AFTER the +1 Missile Ammo skill. Personally, I want 6 Reapers on my Lasher for the price of 2.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

OwlFancier posted:

The 1/2OP single missiles are pretty good, more things in that sort of price range would be nice.

It could make formations more important too, as if the opening few seconds of combat involve an exchange of missiles from most of the ships in the fleet, that would encourage you to have at least one CIWS ship to shield your smaller ships from missile fire.

I've taken to assigning Wasps (if I have a carrier in my fleet) to my bigger ships for that reason.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Pornographic Memory posted:

Spamming Broadswords with a flagship and a carrier used to be the pro strategy before they tweaked fighter repairs to require supplies so I for one am pumped to see it come back :getin:

Well, they no longer require supplies to function in-battle (they do stop respawning after X casualties), so thats been a thing again for a while :3

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008


I hope the pirates will take it. Even if to just flip everyone the bird. (I'm hoping they went with a Venture and just spammed bad fighters).

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

mirarant posted:

Death by a thousand cuts missiles :v:

Somehow I never used those ships in the core game. I think I need to fix that a little bit.

Also, grats Shaolin on not losing all of your Robberfly's in the first 3 seconds of combat. I think thats a new record.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:

You gotta have Robberflies its like the glue of the entire faction. If you don't have fodder ships, your elite ships will just get ganged up on and vaporized, like what happened to Chaos Farseer's BR fleet. (Although the Irithia's recall teleporter hard counters Blackrock pretty bad)

I generally just use fighters for that instead. Robberflies tend to just die on me too quickly. I understand the need to include things other than superheavy capital ships, I just don't use light frigates for the support!

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

MShadowy posted:

E: Essentially, the problem with organizing a tourney such as this in Starsector appears to be, beyond balance issues, the fact that you would literally need proctors to evaluate each fleet at each stage of the competition and declare it tourney legal/non-cheesy before it could proceed.

Which also has the issue since missiles in themselves are not the problem - the basic variants use them perfectly fine - but the players building ships around them. And how would you evaluate it to not be cheesy without having some arbitrary standards? "It feels like there are too many missiles" isn't exactly a great standard.

That, and certain things like Reapers are often useless in the hands of the AI (this ship isn't big enough for me to annihilate, despite none of the enemy ships being "big enough"), which really limits the effectiveness of some weapons.

Oh, and lets not forget that some factions are just straight up unbalanced, which makes PvP... kind of hard. Valkyrians are a good example, since you need to drastically outmaneuver and out firepower them to actually have a chance, which means that a standup fight is pretty much a loss for you. Same goes for a lot of the hi-tech factions. BRDY and Lotus are probably my favourite to fight against, since they're squishy and maneuverable and playing well has great rewards. As in, they explode really nicely when you catch them offguard.

It was an interesting idea though!

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

DatonKallandor posted:

I really disagree with the "in vanilla pilum spam is also too good" thing. Vanilla has lots of missile counters - and they're light enough on outfitting points to make a fleet with adequate point defense more than possible. They did screw themselves by including mods in the tourney though. If there's anything mods do is make unbalanced weapons and ships especially compared to vanilla and if you add cross-mod upgrades in - it was silly from the start.

I actually tried out the Pilum spam in a carrier fleet with whatsitcalled. The heavy mining carrier. Getting Expanded Missile Racks + the missile targeting mod, it gets really really silly. The reason being that fighters are particularly good at overwhelming the point defense. Luckily, Fast Missile Racks isn't a very common System, so that makes a huge huge huge difference. Once thats on a ship it fires a *lot* of Pilums. Which gets real real bad bad.

But then again its not exactly fun after the umpteenth time and playing something more challenging is more enjoyable.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Tanith posted:

You horde ships and weapons there, no storage fees, to be retrieved when you need them. Ships hulls and CR only get repaired when they are in your fleet over time as you travel, or if you hit the repair button at a friendly/neutral station.

Its really good if you're me and you try to make silly fleets that explode. Dying causes a... large loss in money and everything.

On that note, I *really* recommend getting a hound with Unstable Injectors on it that never sees combat. Just in case you need to actually run from a fight. I don't think anything can actually catch it.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Zudgemud posted:

I know that at least the total conversion mod "Vacuum" has stationfights, even though stations are basically enormous, deadly and slow brickships.


Hounds can't fit energy weapons :v:

This is an easy fix! I may/may have no edited all of the ships in the game to have universal slots at one point to see what it was like.

This was around the same time I gave the main gun on the hound a 180 arc so I could see if they'd function as mobile flak cannons (they will not turn to shoot down missiles with their current hardpoint even with a flak gun).

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

DatonKallandor posted:

I just wish there was a way to get the improved skill trees from Starsector+ without all the extra ships, weapons and shaders.

I'm actually trying to see if I can get that to work. Its just hung up currently trying to compile things that don't exist and I'm sorta realizing again that I am a horrible not-even amateur at this =P

Taerkar posted:

Lashers are one of my favorite ships and the AI is pretty good at using them.

They're so good, especially when you first start the game. They're versatile, tough, and have enough small slots on them that you can customize them for pretty much anything.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Unreal_One posted:

With tariffs and drop rates where they are, I found that bounty hunting was the only profitable activity for me.

Black Market! No tariffs there. You effectively trade the rep you gain from the faction offering the bounty to sell things illegally.

I also went from +20 with Heg to -20 in a single inspection. So. Just prior to the inspection my rep with them went down for trading with someone they didn't like. Which made my legally purchased Arm's from them suddenly contraband. So I didn't have enough money to pay the toll, and lost even more for having suddenly illegal goods.

So then I blew up the inspection fleet because seriously if you're gonna screw me over i'm done trading with you.

100/100 Hated with them now.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

DatonKallandor posted:

Why would you say trade balance isn't working? A good trade seems to about equivalent to a good run of bounties in money output.
The one general gameplay issue I can see is that there's not enough factions. Especially the independents being all lumped together is really hurting the viable playstyles. Can't intercept a Smuggler without making every mercenary band and every Indie Station in the entire sector angry at your for example.

Thats because the smuggler ~~looks~~ like a perfectly legal trader. When they're near pirate stations they show up as pirates, and sometimes if you sit on their rear end long enough they'll reflag as Pirate.

They got upset because it looked like you blew up a merchant =P

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Strumpie posted:

In about 4 hours I've managed to accumulate 500,000 credits from mostly bounty hunting. Also it seems that over time the individual bounty missions increase in value so you can start earning 50,000 for destroying a smallish destroyer fleet which seems very generous.

I think the highlight for me so far though is having loaded up on just 120 units of drugs, hoping to sell them for a nice profit somewhere, I arrived on a planet that had just spiralled out of control causing the price to skyrocket. I quadrupled my profit and made over 100,000 credits from just 120 cargo, it was great and totally serendipitous. :toot:

I know the feeling. I was doing massive food runs when a planet in the Luddic Church system (Eos, I think) had a 10,000 unit food shortage. Bought a freighter just to run it!

When I got to the planet, I offloaded about half in the market and half in the black market, and found they had about ~~30 Harvested Organs. For 400 each (they sell for about 900-1100 elsewhere). So it was a nice, free 15k to get on my return trip.

I'm really enjoying the trade aspect. Its actually really engaging for me, and I'm almost up to enough money to buy a cruiser. I'm excited.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Voyager I posted:

There is some really loving dark subtext to a planet suffering from food shortages having a booming surplus in black market organs.

Its easier on your heart and soul to not ask questions and offload them as soon as you can.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Cirofren posted:

I have a question for the cool people who look through inis and make mods. How does the shielded cargo hold mod work in a fleet? If I've got a volume of 100 space drugs, and 100 cargo space on a shielded freighter, are they shielded? Or do I run the risk of having the freighter be assigned 40 supplies and 60 space drugs? Can I assign cargo to a particular ship?

Crew seems to be based on position in the fleet list with more experienced crew going early in the list. Perhaps goods are weighted by legality and then cost. Or are shielded hulls just a % discount on the toll and a % chance to miss your illegal goods?

Well.

Umm. This is what it does according to the file.

quote:

package data.hullmods;

import com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.BaseHullMod;

public class ShieldedCargoHolds extends BaseHullMod {
// nothing to do, just a marker hullmod
}

So I am gonna dig and see if it actually gets called somewhere.

Alex says "It's based on the cargo capacity of the ship that has it. Also, you can't equip anything with it, it's only available as a built-in on certain hulls and skins". If that helps? I am not really sure it does.

Brainbread fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Oct 23, 2014

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Cirofren posted:

Looks as though bugs are causing enemy fleets to have green crews and all engines to flameout quicker than previously. It takes very little damage to send a ship spinning.

I noticed the crew part. Green Crew are more of a shooting gallery than a threat.

Warheart525 posted:

Yeah, I've noticed a distinct change in the availability of a lot of ships. I think it has something to do with what Alex said when he was talking about using the boarding mechanic to acquire new ships rather than more ships. It is a bit frustrating, though, to know what you want, be able to pay a premium for it, and not be able to get it with any reasonable expedience. I would like some more fighter wings, but they have not been forthcoming.

Grab a crappy shuttle, and hard dock and fight ship to ship. Sending in Marines + their crew in your own crew will give you quite a few ships. Out of ~~boarding maneuvers, they've gotten away once or twice, had one that was too wrecked to salvage, and another that exploded itself. So its at least a 50% or more chance to capture new ships. Its definitely worth it.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Exodee posted:

Triple Annihilator pods are amazing as well. Nothing like filling all of space with dumbfire rockets. :getin:
If you've got access to extended missile racks, you don't even have to worry about running out of ammo either.

A good offense is a good defense! Or something like that. The reason why I like the Annihilators (medium or small) is that they eat shots. They eat missiles, they eat Maulers they eat Hellbores - anything incoming gets swallowed by a wall of rockets. They reduce incoming damage in the front arc, overwhelm PD and shields and hit incredibly hard.

Try to face an Onslaught that is filling the entire front arc with Rockets and its guns. Its a bad idea =P

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

Cirofren posted:

I've played a bit with various pd options in the simulation and it feels like missiles are tankier this patch. I didn't like the kill time on any of the laser PD and I have good rep and have been stockpiling choice salvage. Ballistic PD seems worthwhile but the wolves AI is decent at phasing to avoid, and position the shield in front of, incoming missiles (and I run them with whatever increases the shield arc enough to cover everything bar engines.)

He upp'd the health and speed on missiles (as well as locked some shields on ships to the forward arc).

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

So, I've kept Asharu in a constant state of instability by selling its food shortages entirely on the black market. But its ok, since I make the rep back by killing Pirates (in Corvus).

The other plus side, is since Asharu is constant unstable, its market prices have almost weekly shortages, which gives me a pretty good place to sell supplies, fuel, and pretty much whatever else is cheap on Jangala.

I feel like I'm an awful person, but the money in my bank don't lie~~

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

I wonder when he'll include a borderless window'd fullscreen, instead of us having to do it ourselves.

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Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

THE BAR posted:

I wish he would turn the explosions down again, having to face away every time something larger than a frigate goes kablooey isn't doing me any good when in a melee.

Personally, I just play with my eyes closed. I remember a while back there was a bug where... they were bigger, and pretty much frigates blew up with the same gigantic flashes. It was *horrible*.

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