Khanstant posted:

I think you know what they mean when they mean console. That second paragraph is saying that people want the comforts of living-room gaming from their PC games and that controllers are really good for some games.

CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:

/\/\/\/\/\ What Khanstant he said.


I guess I'm coming from the console end of the spectrum, and years upon years of PC elitist echo chamber complaints. Those are the two big factors I've noticed that people state when they give reasons why consoles are suboptimal. Well, that, screen resolution (not a huge issue anymore), and these "mod" things which, more often than not, are the fanfiction of software.

Again, I like the way this is headed, but I can't help but notice that suddenly it's okay to like a console for some people.

CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:

/\/\/\/\/\ What Khanstant he said.


I guess I'm coming from the console end of the spectrum, and years upon years of PC elitist echo chamber complaints. Those are the two big factors I've noticed that people state when they give reasons why consoles are suboptimal. Well, that, screen resolution (not a huge issue anymore), and these "mod" things which, more often than not, are the fanfiction of software.

Again, I like the way this is headed, but I can't help but notice that suddenly it's okay to like a console for some people.

bigmandan posted:

Yes exactly this.

Right from the SteamOS page "Users can alter or replace any part of the software or hardware they want." At it's core, SteamOS/Steam Machines are PCs that have improvements that are focused on gaming. If you really wanted to, you could install OpenOffice and do work from your couch since it's still a PC.

CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:

/\/\/\/\/\ What Khanstant he said.


I guess I'm coming from the console end of the spectrum, and years upon years of PC elitist echo chamber complaints. Those are the two big factors I've noticed that people state when they give reasons why consoles are suboptimal. Well, that, screen resolution (not a huge issue anymore), and these "mod" things which, more often than not, are the fanfiction of software.

Again, I like the way this is headed, but I can't help but notice that suddenly it's okay to like a console for some people.

Chimp_On_Stilts posted:

You cannot say this, since none of the hardware has been announced.

I think it's a safe assumption that Steam Machine hardware will run a huge gamut, especially if SteamOS becomes popular. Remember: Valve is using a strategy similar to Android - Valve makes the OS, anybody can make hardware. So, using the Android ecosystem as an example, it seems strongly likely that we will see a huge range of Steam Machines.

Big boxes. Quiet boxes. Sub-$100 boxes that can only stream games from another gaming machine in the same residence. Gigantic quad-SLI XTREME GAMER boxes that cost thousands of dollars. Whatever else people are willing to pay for.

Valve has a huge boner for openness and letting market forces rule when possible (see: user created content in TF2, Counter-Strike, DOTA2, Steam Greenlight, etc.). SteamOS and Steam Machines are a new product using some of the same principles.

Personally, I do hope that Valve releases their own hardware as an example of what a 'pristine' SteamOS experience can / should be, and also to give game makers a hardware anchor point to design for. This would capture some, but not all, of the advantage of having fixed hardware in consoles. Otherwise Valve risks the Android fragmentation problem.

CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:

/\/\/\/\/\ What Khanstant he said.


I guess I'm coming from the console end of the spectrum, and years upon years of PC elitist echo chamber complaints. Those are the two big factors I've noticed that people state when they give reasons why consoles are suboptimal. Well, that, screen resolution (not a huge issue anymore), and these "mod" things which, more often than not, are the fanfiction of software.

Again, I like the way this is headed, but I can't help but notice that suddenly it's okay to like a console for some people.

psyman posted:

I hope Valve push ahead with their modular controller. Thumbstick for movement + trackball for aiming is the way to go and it's surprising that Razer/Logitech/etc haven't created a controller like that yet.

In terms of replacing a keyboard for couch gaming, this can already be achieved with an Xbox chatpad/PS3 keypad which connect flush to the respective controllers.

The Xbox pad has 2 modifier buttons (the green & orange keys in the bottom row) for a combined 80+ effective keys, plus it's backlit. MotionJoy supports the PS3 keypad, and unofficial drivers support the Xbox chatpad here: https://code.google.com/p/chatpad-super-driver/issues/detail?id=46

Cream_Filling posted:

I hope that they actually lock down the hardware specs a bit to just a handful of variants, which all must work with official Valve drivers. This would help programmers optimize and also hopefully exercise some quality control over the stuff that's officially branded as a 'steam machine.'

spincube posted:

There's a difference between a controller attachment designed to make punching out download codes and quick person-to-person IMs simple, and something you'd use as part of a gaming PC. They're designed for thumbs, not five fingertips; and both systems at a minimum support USB keyboards anyway, for text input in their respective web browsers - so it's not like they solved this problem any more than that ridiculous GameCube controller:

spincube posted:

There's a difference between a controller attachment designed to make punching out download codes and quick person-to-person IMs simple, and something you'd use as part of a gaming PC. They're designed for thumbs, not five fingertips; and both systems at a minimum support USB keyboards anyway, for text input in their respective web browsers - so it's not like they solved this problem any more than that ridiculous GameCube controller:



_{'It didn't work for GameCube, so we bought up the warehouse overstock for GabeCube'}

[e] I would imagine that, given how Steam rates its catalogue based on full/partial/no controller support, they're not hoping to replace the keyboard, but make it easier to pick out everything you can play using the single controller in your hand from Big Picture mode on your Steam Machine

Cream_Filling posted:

Developing for a billion different combinations of hardware and software is a big part of why developing for PCs is harder than for consoles, though.

Hobo Siege posted:

What game even used that monstrosity? PSO and... PSO?

CampingCarl posted:

That is why you need unified drivers, API, ect. Rather than making software to fit all the hardware, you have the hardware fit with a set standard of software. This is part of why it is important that Valve got ATI, Nvidia, ect. on board.

Cream_Filling posted:

Except this does nothing for optimization, performance targets, etc.

CampingCarl posted:

I am not a big controller person but is there any reason why a qwerty keyboard and the rest of the controller have to be on the same device? I can't see anyone using those tiny keyboards for game input, just communication or browsing where having a small wireless keyboard nearby seems fine if you won't be using it all the time. In Dota 2 Valve added the chat wheel which is a way to say various things in chat, defined ahead of time, with only a couple buttons which seems perfect for controllers.

spincube posted:

univbee posted:

Nintendo making a Gamecube peripheral that only 1 game uses? Well I never! -stares at broadband adapter, microphone and GBA Link cables-

Jeffrey posted:

Super gameboy? 4 way Gameboy link cable? N64 tilt pack? Gameboy printer/camera? (Was this cool? It seemed sort of popular.) The list goes on and on.

EDIT: Just saw you said gamecube but eh, still funny.

Germstore posted:

It's basically true for all Nintendo systems. Wanna come over and play with my R.O.B.?

Bovineicide posted:

Why is it that there are PC gamers who still act like game controllers are a new thing? My AppleIIc had a joystick attachment for chrissake.

Germstore posted:

It's basically true for all Nintendo systems. Wanna come over and play with my R.O.B.?

gggiiimmmppp posted:

I'm surprised that those people still exist. I'd never consider playing anything remotely similar to GTA, Arkham Asylum or Assassins Creed with a M+K anymore; anything relatively new that isn't a shooter or a strategy game probably plays as well on a 360 gamepad if not better (which shouldn't be surprising since consoles are generally the target platforms nowadays). I've even been caving on some less shooty shooters lately- Farcry 3, Hitman Absolution, Dishonored, even New Vegas and Skyrim are all pretty solid on the 360 gamepad (with some caveats, of course, based on choice of playstyle).

That loving Sned posted:

Driving with the mouse and keyboard in GTA IV is terrible, because it's designed for fully analogue steering and acceleration. Trying to drive with WASD just leaves you skidding all over the place.

Baron FU posted:

It's also why I find some PC gamers claim that mouse and keyboard is more "precise" for anything and everything dumb as hell. Analog is clearly the superior control form for driving in games much like mouse/keyboard is for shooters.

Raygereio posted:

Any claim that one control form is superior then the other is generally dumb as hell. As long as the control mechanics aren't outright broken for one form, which one is better for you should just come down to basic preference.

Baron FU posted:

But for GTA games mouse/keyboard is pretty close to broken. Especially the flying controls in the older games are completely impossible. The Vice City toy helicopter mission comes to mind.

Rolling Scissors posted:

And I played that too with M+KB and found the controls perfectly "controllable", maybe I'm just weird.

Baron FU posted:

But for GTA games mouse/keyboard is pretty close to broken. Especially the flying controls in the older games are completely impossible. The Vice City toy helicopter mission comes to mind.

BigFatFlyingBloke posted:

I'm not sure that "console" is really a valid term with the switch to X86-64 this generation. It's more a case of "closed" pc or "open" pc.

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I found flying easier in GTA:SA using exclusively the keyboard than with a controller or with kb+m. Something about how the planes control with button inputs just made it much easier to make small subtle tweaks and I was able to pull off crazy stunts with ease (throttle and rudder with wasd, pitch and roll with keypad). Similarly, I found driving much better with keyboard and mouse. Mostly because the PC port of GTA:SA added full mouse look while driving. The increased situational awareness that gives you is huge. The camera controls while driving with gamepads were clunky. The driving model was such that analog input didn't really add much.

I do agree that there are some games out there that are just plain better with controllers, and I don't think that's a bad thing at all. But GTA:SA I feel is better in pretty much every situation with KB+M, rockstar did those controls really drat well. Which is great considering how poor the controls were for 3 and VC.