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GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

Mr Boogedy is tough to find. It never came out on VHS or DVD. Old rear end terrible TV copies are the only ones that exist.

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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



Looks like the Jan 2nd episode will have a special guest star: It's Moriarty :swoon:

hollylolly
Jun 5, 2009

Do you like superheroes? Check out my CYOA Mutants: Uprising

How about weird historical fiction? Try Vampires of the Caribbean

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Looks like the Jan 2nd episode will have a special guest star: It's Moriarty :swoon:

Awesome! :D

Snipee
Mar 26, 2010
I finally finished watching Sherlock on my winter break... I do not care what anyone says, Elementary is better. :colbert:

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

I actively dislike Sherlock.

edit: The BBC show.

Mu Zeta fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Dec 23, 2013

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

The Sherlock Holmes books aren't very good, so following them faithfully is not a good way to go.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

Mu Zeta posted:

I actively dislike Sherlock.

edit: The BBC show.

People were hee-hawing about Elementary being a rip-off of Sherlock, but honestly Elementary seems like the kind of show you'd make if you didn't like Sherlock.

johntfs
Jun 7, 2013

by Cowcaster
Soiled Meat

Pick posted:

People were hee-hawing about Elementary being a rip-off of Sherlock, but honestly Elementary seems like the kind of show you'd make if you didn't like Sherlock.

I've seen very little of the BBC Sherlock, but it seems to be something where the leads and set could be transported whole back to the 19th century with no real impact to the show.

Elementary is a show that is very much in and of the 21st century.

I recall someone saying that Johnny Lee Miller's Sherlock was like an eager puppy dog while Benedict Cumberbatch's Sherlock was more like an imperious cat. Well, maybe. That said, I believe that if angered, Cumberbatch's Sherlock might hiss and spit at you, while Johnny Lee Miller's Sherlock would rip out your throat.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

johntfs posted:

I've seen very little of the BBC Sherlock, but it seems to be something where the leads and set could be transported whole back to the 19th century with no real impact to the show.

Elementary is a show that is very much in and of the 21st century.

I recall someone saying that Johnny Lee Miller's Sherlock was like an eager puppy dog while Benedict Cumberbatch's Sherlock was more like an imperious cat. Well, maybe. That said, I believe that if angered, Cumberbatch's Sherlock might hiss and spit at you, while Johnny Lee Miller's Sherlock would rip out your throat.

Well, he'd certainly stab you with an ice pick!

In my mind, the biggest difference is Sherlock is House-like in its "well, he's smart, so he gets to be an utter poo poo to everyone since, let's face it, he's basically a superior human" when Elementary explicitly rejects that idea.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d'être is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
I think the biggest difference between the two shows is in how they treat the main character. Elementary is fundamentally about change, Sherlock ran himself into rock bottom and is being forced to rebuild into something different and more human. He's trying to change and fundamentally wants to change.

In Sherlock, Holmes does not want to change. He's deliberately alien and disturbing, and is presented as fundamentally inhuman. He lives in a world of myth, with fantastical powers and wonders.

Basically Elementary is a show about a flawed man, Sherlock is the myth of a wizard/classical hero. They're about very, very different things.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

johntfs posted:

Man, it's hard to believe that Kristy Swanson, the original Buffy, is now 44 years old.

It's even harder to believe that Sarah Michelle Gellar is only seven years younger, and Alyson Hannigan joins the Officially Unsexy Club in March.

Snipee
Mar 26, 2010

Zore posted:

I think the biggest difference between the two shows is in how they treat the main character. Elementary is fundamentally about change, Sherlock ran himself into rock bottom and is being forced to rebuild into something different and more human. He's trying to change and fundamentally wants to change.

In Sherlock, Holmes does not want to change. He's deliberately alien and disturbing, and is presented as fundamentally inhuman. He lives in a world of myth, with fantastical powers and wonders.

Basically Elementary is a show about a flawed man, Sherlock is the myth of a wizard/classical hero. They're about very, very different things.

I agree with this. Moffat is much better at writing for Doctor Who (a show about a time-traveling alien who really is superior to everyone and everything else in the room) than for Sherlock. Their interpretation of Moriarty was disappointing for the same reason. The guy was flatly insane, and he was constantly built up as this Nietzschean Ubermensch that no one could touch. I mean, I wanted a little more evil from the Moriarty in Elementary, but I was still very much satisfied with the writing. Elementary is just a much more realistic show about someone who just happens to be a few standard deviations above the norm; Sherlock is about someone with more or less magical powers explained away as "deduction".

Slamhound
Mar 27, 2010
I always think of BBC Sherlock as being how Elementary's Sherlock imagines himself.

Pastrymancy
Feb 20, 2011

11:13: Despite Gio Gonzalez warning, "Never mix your sparkling juices," Bryce Harper opens another bottle of sparkling grape and mixes it with sparkling cider.

1:07: Harper walks to the 7-11 and orders an all-syrup Slurpee.

1:10-3:05: Harper has no recollection of this time. Aliens?

Slamhound posted:

I always think of BBC Sherlock as being how Elementary's Sherlock imagines himself.

The hearing episode seems to support this. Sherlock himself should never be a reliable narrator. Maybe it's a callback to the short stories when they have the case make the most sense when Watson is on the stand.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE
I like both shows for different reasons. All other things aside, I do enjoy the British drama format of having fewer, but feature length episodes in a season.

Has anyone watched Inspector Morse? (or the spin off, Inspector Lewis?) That is great british crime drama.

Dekenai
Mar 11, 2009

The Lord Bude posted:

I like both shows for different reasons. All other things aside, I do enjoy the British drama format of having fewer, but feature length episodes in a season.

Same here - they're too different to compare directly, but they're both great for what they are.

The Lord Bude posted:

Has anyone watched Inspector Morse? (or the spin off, Inspector Lewis?) That is great british crime drama.

Have you seen "Endeavour"? It goes back to the early days of Inspector Morse (when he was but a constable), and every Morse fan I've met says it's as good as - if not better - than the original series. Can't comment myself, 'cause I've only seen one episode

Also recommending "A Touch Of Cloth" for anyone who might like an affectionate parody of British crime dramas.


Back to Elementary - it's great to see Aidan Quinn back on screen. He's the reason I watched in the first place - drat but he was a handsome bastard in his younger days (and still is!). Like Pick said:

Pick posted:

Gregson is great casting, somehow he seems approachable and nice but still when he needs that hard edge it's like BAM!

Sophia
Apr 16, 2003

The heart wants what the heart wants.

Snipee posted:

I agree with this. Moffat is much better at writing for Doctor Who (a show about a time-traveling alien who really is superior to everyone and everything else in the room) than for Sherlock. Their interpretation of Moriarty was disappointing for the same reason. The guy was flatly insane, and he was constantly built up as this Nietzschean Ubermensch that no one could touch. I mean, I wanted a little more evil from the Moriarty in Elementary, but I was still very much satisfied with the writing. Elementary is just a much more realistic show about someone who just happens to be a few standard deviations above the norm; Sherlock is about someone with more or less magical powers explained away as "deduction".

Do not get me started about how perfect the Moriarty interpretation was for the Sherlock interpretation in the BBC show because I have so very very very many words about it in my head. There are aspects of Sherlock that I think hinder it, but none of them are the characters they made within the construct of that world.

I really like both shows because I agree with what someone else said that Elementary is the show you'd make if you didn't like Sherlock. They're almost complete negatives of each other in every significant take on the character. I think the magical haughty Sherlock wizard works for the 90 minute movie format, but one of the things that immediately caught my interest in this show was a speech Sherlock gives early on about how hard he has worked to develop his skills, to the exclusion of not only other facts but things like social graces or tact. In order to do what he does he couldn't take the time for anything useless, so instead of his largely anti-social behavior being something he was completely born with, it's a learned trait. One that, over the course of this show, it appears he will slowly unlearn. And the nice part is both interpretations are supported by the original work. Watson definitely sees Sherlock as a magical wizard (and often Conan Doyle himself gets tired of explaining the connections and just sort of hand-waves his deductions), but the story Sherlock also does an insane level of work and research to attain his skills and he's also able to function within a society.

Anyway, I would put both versions of the show in my Top 10 if they'd aired this year. They're offering different, good, stuff.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

I think it's just marvelous that we're able to have these two utterly different modern takes on the same characters. Seriously how remarkable is it that we have these two shows, who by their very definition are derivative, and yet both manage to be fresh and interesting? I love them both.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Sophia posted:

Anyway, I would put both versions of the show in my Top 10 if they'd aired this year. They're offering different, good, stuff.

Sherlock S3 starts on 1st January.

I too prefer Elementary, but if you'll pardon a pun, right now there's no poo poo Sherlock. Everyone playing the character is very good, each in different ways: Cumberbatch as the calculating mind, Miller as the man damaged by his own brilliance (and Downey Jr just for the fun, of course). I really hope they release a DVD of the play of Frankenstein where Cumberbatch and Miller alternated between playing the creature and the creator - I'd like to see how they approached the roles when playing against each other.

hollylolly
Jun 5, 2009

Do you like superheroes? Check out my CYOA Mutants: Uprising

How about weird historical fiction? Try Vampires of the Caribbean

Regy Rusty posted:

I think it's just marvelous that we're able to have these two utterly different modern takes on the same characters. Seriously how remarkable is it that we have these two shows, who by their very definition are derivative, and yet both manage to be fresh and interesting? I love them both.

I am with you on this, I think it's great. And I love that we can talk about both shows without the thread dissolving into TVIV Terribleness. :D

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D
Somehow, I've been able to enjoy Sherlock even if the fans are godawful, but it's great to love every iteration of the world's greatest detective. (I have a huge soft spot for Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law, the movies were just pure fun and silliness).

I'm just glad Lucy Liu and Miller play so well against each other. This show really wouldn't have worked if they weren't able to develop chemistry over the course of season one.

Snipee
Mar 26, 2010
Robert Downey Jr. is my favorite; the little gimmick where time slows down to a crawl while his thoughts race towards a solution is both hilarious and awesome. Lucy Liu and Miller is definitely the best Watson/Holmes pairing though.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



New episode tonight with a special guest star / returning char: Moriarty

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

Huh. A lot more back tonight than I thought.

I only watch 2 of them, but still.

hollylolly
Jun 5, 2009

Do you like superheroes? Check out my CYOA Mutants: Uprising

How about weird historical fiction? Try Vampires of the Caribbean

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

New episode tonight with a special guest star / returning char: Moriarty

Thanks for posting this, I'm pretty good at forgetting when it's Thursday. I'm really glad the show is back on already, I need me some Sherlock Holmes. And Clyde.

jscolon2.0
Jul 9, 2001

With great payroll, comes great disappointment.
Beekeeper suit. :allears:

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Painting creepy paintings is a good pastime for a criminal genius.

FANTASY, DO NOT ATTEMPT. CARS CANNOT JUMP ON TRAINS.

Regy Rusty fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jan 3, 2014

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
They never learn!

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



Regy Rusty posted:

Painting creepy paintings is a good pastime for a criminal genius.

FANTASY, DO NOT ATTEMPT. CARS CANNOT JUMP ON TRAINS.

Someone was a little upset she got beaten by the "mascot"

jscolon2.0
Jul 9, 2001

With great payroll, comes great disappointment.
Elementary: Two years ago, I was a drug addled misanthrope. Now I'm sober.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Whaaat! A mom!

jscolon2.0
Jul 9, 2001

With great payroll, comes great disappointment.
Moriarty's mentor better be a plot point.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

Her prison cell is bigger than my house

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!

jscolon2.0 posted:

Moriarty's mentor better be a plot point.

I'd be more surprised if it doesn't come up again. There's a couple other things that are probably going to tie into something major at some point; that trunk of cold cases Watson got and Mycroft's nebulous scheme to get Sherlock back in London immediately come to mind. There's a fair few ways they could all tie together amazingly, though which one they pick, if any, is still up in the air.

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D
Mattoo, did you not learn anything from imprisoning Tony Stark!? :argh:

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
"But again, trying to argue anything from a point of "sex with a 15 year old is completely different then sex with a 8 year old" gets shouted down as pedophilia apologia." - Pentyne
Are they building up some huge meta-plot with this recent episode? After watching the new Sherlock and comparing it to what they're doing with Elementary it's like night and day, but I find I enjoy the procedural crime solving aspect of this show more then the BBC equivalent.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house i've done pretty well for myself.
I called the maternity and coded messages plot points. Theyre telegraphing them too hard.

Cmon, Sherlock, you should have realised Moriarty was the mother the moment the kidnappers put the girl on the phone. Not when you decoded the classified ad.

ImpulseDrive
Jul 25, 2008
Holmes should have been looking at the newspapers after Moriarty requested to be moved to the station.

MrFlibble
Nov 28, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Fallen Rib
Surprised no one mentioned the best line in the episode - She is a riddle wrapped up in a mystery inside an enigma that I have had sex with. The delivery of that was great.

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qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.
This episode was great. I know they can't have Moriarty on every episode, but drat do I love Natalie Dormer and every scene she has with Sherlock/Watson.

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