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Jan posted:Fair point--Costco does love to blade tenderize the poo poo out of everything, but as sterster mentions, that doesn't usually extend to full roasts. If it's not in vac pack at Costco it's probably blade tenderized and labeled as such
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Jun 22, 2019 03:18
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gwrtheyrn posted:If it's not in vac pack at Costco it's probably blade tenderized and labeled as such Morton's marinated steakhouse tri tip from Costco is marked blade tenderized. But gently caress it, I sous vide mine for a few hours, then char, and they have not killed me yet. Of course they are also marked to get the internal temp to obscene levels, which is also ignored big time.
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Jun 24, 2019 18:44
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Hasselblad posted:Morton's marinated steakhouse tri tip from Costco is marked blade tenderized. But gently caress it, I sous vide mine for a few hours, then char, and they have not killed me yet. Of course they are also marked to get the internal temp to obscene levels, which is also ignored big time. I've posted this article before, but it's a good one: http://www.foodsafetymagazine.com/magazine-archive1/februarymarch-2004/the-danger-zone-reevaluated/ Short version: Bacterial death starts happening at 125 degrees F and is largely consistent outside of a laboratory setting, where lab strains were able to push that up to 129 without being killed off in large enough numbers to be called safe (one in ten million survival rate). Maybe there's new data on the subject, but more or less if you hit 130 degrees, the only thing stopping it from being fully sterilized is time. Even 125-129 should be safe outside of a lab, and thicker cuts just need to be in the bath longer to make sure the temperature's consistent throughout. Fun fact: The "obscene internal temp" of 165 is basically the foolproof version of this same data. It takes a good six hours to kill off bacteria at 127 degrees, less than a second at 165. Dewgy fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 19:13
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Dewgy posted:I've posted this article before, but it's a good one: http://www.foodsafetymagazine.com/magazine-archive1/februarymarch-2004/the-danger-zone-reevaluated/ Do we have any data about bacterial penetration of primal or subprimals, aka intact muscle tissue? I think the hanging question was "well, how will the bacteria get from the surface of my Rib Roast 2.5"+ to the center and allow them to grow/populate/poison me?" IE: If it's a whole cut of meat, why does the thickness/time to center temperature matter? Note: I only know what HACCP tells me, and not the why.
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Jun 24, 2019 19:24
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sterster posted:Is this where they no greater than 4" of meat comes from. Phew, I'm safe
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Jun 24, 2019 19:52
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toplitzin posted:Do we have any data about bacterial penetration of primal or subprimals, aka intact muscle tissue? Not too sure on that, I think my point was more that it likely doesn't matter. If the bacteria gets to the center, and then the center reaches 130 F for a while, the bacteria's dead anyway. Might be a bit overkill, but for non-bacterial-focused cooking purposes there's not really any reason to mess with the strategy.
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Jun 24, 2019 19:58
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Dewgy posted:Not too sure on that, I think my point was more that it likely doesn't matter. If the bacteria gets to the center, and then the center reaches 130 F for a while, the bacteria's dead anyway. Might be a bit overkill, but for non-bacterial-focused cooking purposes there's not really any reason to mess with the strategy. There's still the issue of bacterial byproducts before they die. Like sure you can pasteurize Clostridium Botulinum to death, but they can still dump out a bunch of botulinum toxin that won't cook out if it takes 6 hours to get to 125 from 38. I mean there's clearly a reason there is a max thickness, i just don't know enough to answer. Same when we cool food, we want wide and flat vs tall and deep.
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Jun 24, 2019 20:04
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Out of curiosity I attempted to find the thermal conductivity of beef muscle to figure out how long it'd take to heat up. unfortunately there isn't a lot of publicly available research. Not that it doesn't exist. It appears it's all hidden behind pay walls :/ Edit: Found this https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1081/JFP-100002191 Which list Whole rib steak at.50 and Whole sirloin tip .48 as well as whole round at .50 conductivity ( W/mK) After some very poor math I calculated it would take 1.43 sec to cook 10lb peice of beef with an 800 watt anovo from 35 degrees fridge temp to 131f. So look guys you hardly spend any time at all. Although this makes me question why my steaks need an hour. sterster fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 21:33
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sterster posted:Out of curiosity I attempted to find the thermal conductivity of beef muscle to figure out how long it'd take to heat up. unfortunately there isn't a lot of publicly available research. Not that it doesn't exist. It appears it's all hidden behind pay walls :/ Baldwin posted:Table A.1 toplitzin fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 22:00
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Dewgy posted:Maybe there's new data on the subject, but more or less if you hit 130 degrees, the only thing stopping it from being fully sterilized is time. Even 125-129 should be safe outside of a lab, and thicker cuts just need to be in the bath longer to make sure the temperature's consistent throughout. That's the nice thing about the puddling of that tri-tip. Normally if just grilling it. I would aim for charred as gently caress exterior and pink interior. I can get that more consistently and safer doing it SV over 6 hours and a scorch, as opposed to fast inferno with rare internal. Side note: I truly wish I could replicate that marinade. My god it is good stuff. Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 22:55
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Try this on for size and report back 1/4 cup plus 2 tablespoons (90ml) Worcestershire sauce 1/4 cup plus 2 tablespoons (90ml) soy sauce 2 tablespoons (30ml) balsamic vinegar 1/4 teaspoon garlic powder 1/4 teaspoon onion powder 1/4 tsp crushed red pepper Freshly ground black pepper
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Jun 24, 2019 23:22
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toplitzin posted:There's still the issue of bacterial byproducts before they die. Well botulism's kind of an interesting case, since I think with most food poisoning it's the live stuff that gives you an issue, botulism's more or less literal poison. Seafood you kind of have to be careful about for the same reason, though I also know from personal experience read: barfing for a straight week  that in some cases with seafood or toxins in general you're just kind of screwed and there's nothing you can do about it.Also this is one hell of a read but it seems to cover the botulinum aspect of sous vide: https://aem.asm.org/content/66/1/223#sec-13 Summary from my understanding is it's not a perfect sterilization method to get rid of botulism spores but this is more a concern for long term storage than a single night's meal.
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Jun 24, 2019 23:41
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Jhet posted:I think it's -4F for fish, and domestic freezers indeed do not get that cold normally. Maybe if your thermostat breaks it might get close. It is -4F for 1 week or -20F for 24 hours or -40F for 16 hours (I think, maybe -30F?) I bought a small medical freezer of Amazon for about $220 that goes to -15F or so. I just buy already frozen tuna/salmon/mahi and throw it in there for a week when I want to make sushi.
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Jun 27, 2019 16:34
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Crossover from the smoke thread. Leg of lamb success. 2 hour pre-puddle smoke (mesquite) 24 hour puddle in the SV @ 132F 2 hour post-puddle smoke. (hickory) charred on super hot grill 
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Jun 30, 2019 16:54
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That looks stunning
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Jun 30, 2019 17:20
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I've never done a big, long cook before, but I'm planing on doing a large brisket for my 4th of July BBQ. I've seen a few different methods on YouTube, but does anyone here have any experience and/or a preferred method of doing a brisket? Some of the recipes had a 3 hour smoke before puddling followed by searing from a Searzall after puddling, some had puddling first and then smoking with no sear, some had some time in the oven after puddling. What is the best way to go? I have a smoker but no Searzall/HeatGun/Torch, but I'm willing to buy one if that's the best way to do it.
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Jun 30, 2019 21:34
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OldSenileGuy posted:I've never done a big, long cook before, but I'm planing on doing a large brisket for my 4th of July BBQ. I've seen a few different methods on YouTube, but does anyone here have any experience and/or a preferred method of doing a brisket? i may be in the minority here but i played around with puddling>smoking briskets and ultimately didn't think the hassle was worth it (compared to the simplicity and deliciousness of just smoking the drat thing)
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Jun 30, 2019 21:43
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I should mention, the smoker I have is basically the cheapest electric smoker they had at Home Depot that I bought two years ago. So while it technically works, I've found it has problems getting up to temp and staying there. Hence why I'm looking to use it to add some smoky flavor but not necessarily to do the bulk of the cooking. Plus i already ordered some of the SV accessories I'll need for this, so even if I decide not to do a brisket, i'm gonna be puddling SOMETHING next weekend.
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Jun 30, 2019 22:03
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OldSenileGuy posted:I've never done a big, long cook before, but I'm planing on doing a large brisket for my 4th of July BBQ. I've seen a few different methods on YouTube, but does anyone here have any experience and/or a preferred method of doing a brisket? Generally I liked puddling and then hot smoking for flavor/to finish, that seemed the least fussy of the many variations I’ve seen and had decent texture & flavor
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Jun 30, 2019 22:16
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OldSenileGuy posted:I've never done a big, long cook before, but I'm planing on doing a large brisket for my 4th of July BBQ. I've seen a few different methods on YouTube, but does anyone here have any experience and/or a preferred method of doing a brisket? Kenji had a whole breakdown of the combo method. https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/08/sous-vide-barbecue-smoked-bbq-brisket-texas-recipe.html
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Jun 30, 2019 22:17
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I do SV brisket every couple of months for a party. I use the Serious Eats time and temp for “traditional” (I think 155 for 24-36?) and then either finish on the smoker or the oven for an hour-ish. IMO it comes out moister than when I just smoke it, and my guests love it. The best part, though, is that I can control exactly when it’s done, versus the huge time range for doing the whole cook on the smoker. When I’m going to finish in the oven I put a few drops of liquid smoke in the bag(s), but I don’t bother with the nitrite for a ring.
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Jun 30, 2019 22:26
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What type of container are you guys using for a brisket puddling? Are you doubling up on SV units?
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Jul 1, 2019 00:08
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I have an 18qt Cambro that I can put 12 lbs of brisket in if I cut it into a few pieces. Just one Anova is enough to keep it at temp if I cover it well.
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Jul 1, 2019 00:11
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Hasselblad posted:What type of container are you guys using for a brisket puddling? Are you doubling up on SV units? A cooler is what I use with a hole cut in it and typical cook time is about 24-36hrs @ 155 as mentioned above. This 4th I'm going to try the smoke, SV, smoke method to see if I can get some more smoke flavor on it. sterster fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jul 1, 2019 |
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Jul 1, 2019 03:06
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Hasselblad posted:Crossover from the smoke thread. Nicely done--are there any issues (or tips for) moving a big piece of meat that's been smoked into the vacuum sealer?
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Jul 1, 2019 03:40
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Why are people putting peanut butter on steaks they slid vide
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Jul 1, 2019 04:38
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ColHannibal posted:Why are people putting peanut butter on steaks they slid vide 
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Jul 1, 2019 05:34
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ColHannibal posted:Why are people putting peanut butter on steaks they slid vide Stay away from Reddit. First mayo. Now peanut butter. I’m guessing nutritive yeast mixed with miso is next.
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Jul 1, 2019 05:42
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Dodgy af satay in a bag?
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Jul 1, 2019 14:56
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Hed posted:Nicely done--are there any issues (or tips for) moving a big piece of meat that's been smoked into the vacuum sealer? I use the big silicone grilling gloves. Point to note: the leg of lamb was trussed up the entire time (after scoring)
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Jul 1, 2019 15:39
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sterster posted:A cooler is what I use with a hole cut in it and typical cook time is about 24-36hrs @ 155 as mentioned above. This 4th I'm going to try the smoke, SV, smoke method to see if I can get some more smoke flavor on it. Was about to ask how the temp effects the cooler, but then realized you are literally cooking something in a thin plastic bag. When I did my huge batch of 72 hour beef ribs a couple weeks ago I used 2 SVs to make sure the water temp was evenly distributed. With a large cooler do you find it circulates enough with 1?
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Jul 1, 2019 15:43
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I ended up buying those grill grates for my Weber grill and they are amazing to cook with. As an added bonus, they suggest flipping them over to get a flat surface to use as a griddle. I think they’re made out of aluminum or something but it ends up being an amazing surface to sear a steak on. It’s basically like a baking steel but it stays in my grill all the time.
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Jul 1, 2019 15:49
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Hasselblad posted:Was about to ask how the temp effects the cooler, but then realized you are literally cooking something in a thin plastic bag. I don't think that it matters that much. The 800w anova has a suggested volume of 5 gallons. The cooler is listed as 23 quarts or 5.75 gallons which it's never filled to the top anyway. So in conjunction with the insulation of the cooler I don't think that it works that hard to heat and maintain the water and I doubt there are cold spots that vary in temp greater than 1 degree throughout.
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Jul 1, 2019 17:32
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I have a 25l tub with a lid + cutout that sits inside a styrofoam box like they use for food delivery. My Anova handles that without problems, just make sure to start with hot water not cold and you should be fine. Longest I did was 32h at 64 C starting from 60C water and I had 0 issues.
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Jul 1, 2019 22:21
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my sous vide containers are real small or way too big. I use a gallon sized container for steaks or a 6 gallon stockpot for anything that's too big for that. I really should get a correctly sized cambro so I don't have to heat 4 gallons of water to sous vide medium to large sized stuff.
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Jul 1, 2019 22:46
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one day I'm gunna get a better SV container because if I'm not using my dutch oven (lol, I'm never using my dutch oven) I'm using a loving 30 qt stock pot I bought for brewing beer and promptly gave up on beermaking.
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Jul 2, 2019 12:06
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Subjunctive posted:I do SV brisket every couple of months for a party. I use the Serious Eats time and temp for “traditional” (I think 155 for 24-36?) and then either finish on the smoker or the oven for an hour-ish. IMO it comes out moister than when I just smoke it, and my guests love it. The best part, though, is that I can control exactly when it’s done, versus the huge time range for doing the whole cook on the smoker. This sounds like what I’m gonna do. Follow Serious Eats steps for prep, puddle for 32-ish hours at 155, then finish in the smoker for a couple hours. Will report back with pics if I remember!! EDIT: just out of curiousity, since I’m getting my meat from Costco and I’ve just heard about blade tenderization, the above method should be enough to not have to worry about that, right?
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Jul 3, 2019 21:39
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OldSenileGuy posted:This sounds like what I’m gonna do. Follow Serious Eats steps for prep, puddle for 32-ish hours at 155, then finish in the smoker for a couple hours. Will report back with pics if I remember!! 32 hours at 155? Gonna say you're fine.
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Jul 3, 2019 21:52
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OldSenileGuy posted:EDIT: just out of curiousity, since I’m getting my meat from Costco and I’ve just heard about blade tenderization, the above method should be enough to not have to worry about that, right? The label on it should say if it is or not but if you bought a whole packer I would guess that it is not. Whole primal/subprimals from costco, in my experience or at my local stores, are not blade tenderized. Just the cut/packaged steaks are.
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Jul 4, 2019 02:34
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!
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OldSenileGuy posted:Will report back with pics if I remember!! Well, I’m only about 10 hours in, and it’s a disaster so far.  I bought a Food Saver vacuum sealer specifically for this, and either the one I have is defective or it just sucks (and not in the way it’s supposed to). The first time I tried to vacuum seal something as a test run, it took 3 tries to get it even close to what you would describe as a vacuum sealed package. Then I did another test run and it got it on the first try, so I figured maybe it just needed some warming up or something. Bagged up my brisket and started up the vac sealer, and it did a reasonably good job. Then I remembered reading it might be a good idea to double bag for these long cooks, so I bagged up the sealed brisket and tried to vac seal that, and it just would not happen. The sealer would run for 5 minutes or so, then stop, and there would still be a ton of air in the bag. Tried this twice with the same results, and then decided to just roll the dice with the single sealed bag. So I popped it in the water and went to bed. Oops. Woke up this morning to some nasty looking brown water. When I got the meat out of the bath, I saw that the bag failed, though NOT at one of the seams that was made by the vac sealer. The bag had ripped along one of the edges on the side. Figuring that it ripped because the whole brisket was probably too much for one bag, I took it out and cut it in half and rebagged each half separately. I tried to pour some of the juice back into these new bags, but still ended up losing a ton of juice.  Resealed these new bags (still not a perfect vacuum but pretty good), replaced the water, and popped these babies back in. I have no idea how these will turn out now. I considered just dumping the whole thing but that seems like a waste at this point. If it turns out inedible I’ll just dump it then.
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Jul 5, 2019 15:14
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