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Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

Hello and welcome to the exciting world of sous vide, where we throw food in hot water and come back a couple hours or days later to perfectly cooked food.


WHAT IS SOUS VIDE?
"Sous vide" is French for "under vacuum." Essentially you put your food in a plastic bag, squeeze or suck out the air, and then put it in a temperature-controlled hot water bath to cook for a certain amount of time. Sounds really simple, but the hot water bath requires strict precision, and that's why this style of cooking required expensive equipment and stayed a niche thing for a long time. Until recently, which is probably why you're here!


WHY SOUS VIDE?
Sous vide cooking allows for a lot of things that would be incredibly difficult and maybe even impossible otherwise.

Extreme precision: (if you're using an electronic setup): Meat cooked at 136F is noticeably different from meat cooked at 140F, which is different from meat cooked at 144F. Trying to get meat to hit temperatures like these with a traditional cooking setup would be next to impossible, but with an electronic sous vide setup you've got a temperature controller which will turn up or turn off the heat until it hits the exact temperature. Precision may vary between different appliances, but AFAIK, all of them measure in tenths of fahrenheit degrees so you can count on it being more accurate than your pathetic brain is capable of.


Even cooking: Most other cooking styles require high heat in a relatively short amount of time. Heat needs to travel from the outside of the food towards the inside, and that takes time. Because of this, the outside of a food will always be more cooked than the inside, and you have to play a balancing act between an overcooked outside and an undercooked inside. With sous vide on the other hand, cooking time is typically long, which gives heat plenty of time to travel throughout the entire food and brings all of it up to the same temperature.

Less overcooking: Other cooking styles typically use a very hot pan, much hotter than the target temperature. The danger with this is that if you leave your food in there too long, (answer a phone call, get distracted by something on TV) then your food gets burned to a crisp. With a sous vide rig however, you set the water to be the target temperature of the food, which means that once the food hits that target temp, it doesn't get any hotter and it just stays there at that temperature. Say you're cooking steaks for a party and your friends show up late. Well, if you were doing them sous vide you could leave them in there for a couple hours and then just pop them out for a quick sear whenever your guests arrived. (Addendum: only meats that are high in connective tissue should be cooked more than just a few hours. Although lean meats will not overcook in the traditional sense, they will probably start overcooking in a different way after 4 hours, turning paste-like)

Less moisture loss: Because food is contained in a closed plastic bag, no moisture leaves the bag. Sure, some moisture will exit the food and go swimming around in the bag but at least this way it will be a lot less moisture loss than open-air cooking styles. On top of that, since you're typically cooking at lower temperatures than on a skillet, protein fibers in meat will contract less, therefore squeezing less moisture out of the meat itself.

Convenience: Some sous vide setups will allow you to start the cooking in the morning and come home to an almost-done dinner.


Making lower cooking temperatures safe: Pasteurizing food is a function of time and temperature. The higher the temperature, the shorter the time needed to make food safe, and vice versa. Now, typically you'd have to blast the heat on your food to make sure the inside of it at least got to the minimum temperature to make it safe for consumption, but now with sous vide you can cook stuff way below recommended safety guidelines and because you're cooking it for drastically longer times you can count on it being pasteurized. Why would you want to do that? For some foods the ideal texture might be achieved at a temperature that was below food-safe temperatures with traditional cooking methods.

Gelatinization: Tough cuts of meat contain lots of connective tissue. Connective tissue contains collagen. If you heat up collagen, the fibers will unravel and become gelatin, which makes the meat soft and adds a richness to the rest of the food. You can heat up the collagen quickly, which will lead to the rest of the meat being overcooked, or you can do it slowly, which will allow the collagen to convert to gelatin thoroughly while still maintaining an ideal texture for the meat. Beef short ribs that have been cooking at 136F for 48-72 hours are a pretty amazing showcase of this.


WHAT FOODS BENEFIT MOST FROM SOUS VIDE?

Sous vide does NOT make everything better. For a lot of foods, there are no benefits and you'll just be wasting your time just to get the same results. But for some foods, the difference sous vide makes can be pretty fantastic:


Eggs: Traditionally one of the hard things for home cooks to get right. Ten seconds of cooking could be the difference between a perfect poach or a half-assed poach. Now with sous vide you can hit the exact doneness you want.


Steak: Instead of having a small core of perfect medium rare surrounded by strata of medium and well done steak, imagine your steak being completely medium rare all throughout. Most sites will say to cook your steak at 138F in order to hit the ideal medium rare. Now, one thing sous vide can't do is get that delicious brown crust on a steak that high heat will get, so don't forget to give it a quick sear on a skillet before serving, maybe 45-60 seconds on each side. Any more will start transferring heat to the center of the steak.

Pork chops: For the last few decades farmers have been selectively breeding pigs to be leaner. While this may be healthier for consumers it also leads to dry, tough pork when cooked with traditional methods. Sous vide fixes this by allowing less moisture to leave your pork chops, and less toughness thanks to the lower cooking temperature. One other thing is that pork chops on high heat skillets will start curling, a very annoying thing that sous vide thankfully avoids.


Ribs: Like I mentioned earlier, beef short ribs are a prime showcase for slow cooking this way. Most recipes have said that boneless or bone-in should have the same results. I dunno, maybe something's wrong with the meat my grocer is putting out but I seem to get better results with bone-in.

Vegetables: For most vegetables sous vide doesn't make a difference, but they're great with roots like carrots, parsnips, turnips and radishes.


SOUS VIDE EQUIPMENT

Bagging: First you gotta get your bags.


Ziplock bags: If you're starting out, you can just get some ziplock bags and squeeze the air out by hand. Another method is to put the bag in a pot of water. The water pressure will squeeze the air out and then you can zip it up. I have a vacuum sealer and I still do the ziploc bags once in a while because you can deal with liquids easily whereas consumer vacuum bag machines don't like liquids.


Handheld vacuum sealers: They're cheap ($20 or so) and they suck out more air than you possibly could by yourself. They require custom bags and these bags supposedly stop holding a seal after several uses, but hey, it's cheap. Example: Foodsaver Freshsaver


Consumer countertop vacuum sealers: The thing most people think about when you talk about vacuum sealing. They vary in price from the $30 Rival Seal-A-Meals to the $120 Foodsaver 4840. To be perfectly honest, they all appear to perform the same at their one main task, which is sucking out air and sealing plastic bags. You could spring for the bells and whistles on the higher end Foodsavers, but it's not really necessary. These all use rolls of thick plastic and seal them off to form bags after the air is sucked out.

BTW the question is often asked where to get foodsaver bags or rolls for cheap. Go on eBay, people are retailing large 50 foot rolls there for cheap, and AFAIK it's the same exact plastic.


Chamber vacuum sealers: This is pro level poo poo. These vacuums typically run $600-$4000 and have powerful motors that can suck almost all air out of a self-contained chamber. One of the nice features of this is that they can vacuum seal liquids easily, which the other vacuuming methods can not. Example: Vacmaster VP112

Now, onto the hot water:


Ghetto sous vide: Alright, so you want to dip your toes into this sous vide thing but you don't want to spend any money yet. Sous vide is totally doable on the stove top for short periods of time. Get a pot and put it on the stove and stick a thermometer in there. Raise or lower the heat until you hit the desired temperature and then toss in your food. Keep checking every few minutes and adjusting. Is the temperature fluctuating too much? Try using aluminum core stainless steel pots (the aluminum distributes heat better than plain steel) or even try putting a pot inside a pot to smooth out temperature fluctuations. Another option might be using a plastic picnic cooler. Yes, that's right, these things were designed to insulate the insides and keep them from changing temperature as long as possible. Heat water to the desired temperature and then pour it into the beer cooler, throw in your food then close the top. Check every few minutes to make sure the temperature is stable. Put in a little hot water every now and then if the temperature drops. Yes, these methods sound like a lot of work. It's practically impossible to do this right for something that requires more than a couple hours of cooking. This is why people buy electronic solutions

PID controllers: On the low end of "legit" sous vide, these are little appliances that modify your existing appliance into a sous vide rig, say, a manual rice cooker or crock pot. You plug your crock pot into the PID controller, which then plugs into the wall socket. Then you put the PID's thermometer into the crock pot. When it senses that the temperature is getting too hot, it switches off the appliance. When it gets too cold, it switches it back on.


Dorkfood: $100, probably the cheapest solution to real sous vide there is other than hacking your own DIY unit together. Of course, the cheaper components mean that it makes a clicking sound every time it switches the power on and off. When it gets to a stable temperature, this means it is constantly clicking every few seconds. As long as you're not trying to sleep near it, you should be fine.


Codlo: Originally $150, it's now cheaper than the Dorkfood, at $90


Immersion circulators: These are heaters you put directly into a water container and they pump water around to make sure the heat gets distributed. The nice thing about these is that you can stick them in whatever container you have laying around the kitchen, like a pot or a beer cooler or a plastic tub. Now, theoretically plastic containers should be the most energy efficient since plastic insulates and metal conducts. I haven't seen numbers to confirm how much of a difference this makes, but it seems like all the professional kitchens using these like to use plastic tubs, and the explanation seems to make sense.


Sansaire: This model showed up on Kickstarter out of nowhere and stole Nomiku's thunder with its much cheaper $200 price point and neato stylings. Got a glowing review on Serious Eats by Kenji. Available now.


Anova Precision Cooker: Probably the best selling sous vide immersion circulator, it can connect to your phone by bluetooth. Also got a glowing review from Kenji's Serious Eats review. As of May 2017, it's at a very low $109, way down from its usual $150 price.


Joule. The new hotness, this was developed by ChefSteps, founded by one of the refugees from Modernist Cuisine. It's smaller than the Anova, more powerful and waterproof, but doesn't have any controls onboard and requires a smartphone to operate. $200 regular price but you might be able to get $20 off if you sign up for a ChefSteps subscription.


Polyscience: This company offers several models starting at $300 Discovery to the $400 Creative to the $800 Professional CHEF series, which are used by many professional kitchens. You can also find a lot of these used on eBay since they've been around for a while.

Vollrath and other commercial IC makers: Their units go $1000-2000 and the high end ones come with their own stainless steel containers. Pretty heavy-duty stuff and you probably don't need to know about them for home cooking's sake.


WATER OVENS: Another category of sous vide rigs, these are fully self-contained counter-top appliances like the Vollrath, but instead of using mechanical circulation they heat the entire tub and depend on convection to keep the water moving around. There is the 3 gallon Sous Vide Supreme ($390) or the 2 gallon Sous Vide Demi ($320). For a long time this was the only game in town for consumers.


SOUS VIDE RECIPES

72 hours short ribs

Glazed carrots

Ribeye steak


OTHER INFO

- This is a pretty awesome app and I wish I knew about it earlier:

deimos posted:

You might want to mention the sous vide dash link temperature app on iTunes, it's pretty thorough and has bacteria death curves for core and surface, it will also calculate the temperature over time of a piece of food. It's pretty nice.

- The question was brought up about why plastic bags have to be used for food containment, since disposable plastic use contributes to waste. AFAIK, plastic is the only material that is flexible, thin, tough, impermeable and clear, all attributes that make it ideal for use in sous vide. Being flexible and thin especially, since they allow the plastic to wrap around the food closely, which maximizes the transfer of heat from the water to the food. If you're concerned about waste, the only viable option is to reuse plastic ziplock bags as much as possible, but be warned that if a ziplock bag ever gets overused to the point of failure, there goes a ruined meal as well. You can still do eggs without plastic bags though!

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at May 16, 2017 around 00:22

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Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

The idea is that a bunch of ping pong balls will conform to whatever size or shape container you have.

Also, being hollow makes them good insulators

But I have to wonder, wouldn't foam cut to shape be better?

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Oct 11, 2013 around 05:59

Steve Yun
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Soiled Meat

BraveUlysses posted:

I've had a nice big short rib cooking for 48 hours @ 60* C, what's the best way for me to sear and make a sauce from the bag juice?

Bag juice is full of water, so what I do is cook it in a pan until it's completely evaporated. The gunk that's left behind is then allowed to brown, and once it does I pour an ounce of water in ( you can use whatever liquid you want) and cook it down again until it's thick

Be sure to watch that pan like a hawk, once the water's cooked off it will burn pretty fast.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Oct 14, 2013 around 02:19

Steve Yun
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MrEnigma posted:

I kind of wish I would have gotten a half size cambro at the same time, since this one is pretty huge. Plus the half sizes w/ lid are like $12, and they want $15 for shipping. Probably would have only been $14-15 total to add on to the last order. (Also Amazon wants $25 for the 1/2 size without lid )
Check restaurant supply stores in your area?

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

Where'd you get your Nomiku? Their website says they're still taking preorders

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

Do you really need any books on sous vide?

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

Scott Bakula posted:

Whats the best place to get one of these new devices if you're in England?

Sansaire will ship to the UK when it launches Nov 18

edit: It looks like you subjects of the Queen have other options as well

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SousVide-Wa...words=sous+vide

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lakeland-El...words=sous+vide

edit: it would also seem that some items such as PID controllers have the option of shipping from Amazon.com to the UK

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Oct 18, 2013 around 22:59

Steve Yun
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Soiled Meat

I've had bags fill up with air, but it turned out that I didn't seal them well, like a corner was crumpled or something and probably let in some air while it sealed.

I've also had bags micropunctured by sawed off bone edges

Steve Yun
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Soiled Meat

Eggs are a cheap way to see the most dramatic differences in cooking temperatures

Steve Yun
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Soiled Meat

Goon posted:

Looking to cook some squid in the waterbath, no baggy. The Anova manual says to not use any non-water based liquids. Will it be an issue for the circulator if I cook something that leaves organic residues in the water?

Try a bag full of water

Steve Yun
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Soiled Meat

When I first made shortribs I got the feeling that bone-in needed to get to 140F to reach the same doneness as boneless at 135F. This kind of puzzled me since most sites would say that you can cook them both the same way.

Higher temp might help firm up the meat and render the fat at any rate. I kind of doubt the mushy texture was from too much collagen.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

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Soiled Meat

On my own pans, I don't think I can sear any longer than 45 seconds without introducing some gray into the steak.

So like Ricola says dry your steak's surface, get your pan extra hot, use a little bit of oil (it helps transfer heat) and another thing might be to sear one side of the steak on one side of the pan, and then when you flip your steak put it on another part of the pan. The part of the pan that seared the first side of your steak will have lost a lot of heat, so just flipping your steak and continuing to use that part of the pan will result in less of a sear on the second side of the steak.

Steve Yun
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Soiled Meat

I dunno, I used a propane torch and it doesn't seem to sear very well, it gets edges and bumps burnt black before getting large surfaces caramelized.

For now I just use it to dry off stuff or brulees

Steve Yun
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Soiled Meat

Kenji tries out sousvide+fried turkey porchetta

http://www.seriouseats.com/2013/11/...-porchetta.html

This is your solution to the "cavernous birds don't cook well in sous vide" problem. Also solves the dry/tough turkey issue.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Nov 14, 2013 around 18:22

Steve Yun
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SeriousEats always puts the recipe on a separate page from the article, which I kind of find annoying but here's the step by step:
http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/...tta-recipe.html

And the traditional turchetta since he refers to step #5 in that one:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2013/11/...ing-recipe.html

Steve Yun
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nwin posted:

So, my thoughts are that it was just low quality steak, but I can't think of anything else. It definitely didn't taste like freezer burn, so I'm ruling that out since the bags lost their vacuum seal at some point in the freezer.

Any ideas?
I'll just add that sawed bones love popping vacuum seal bags like kids with bubble wrap

Steve Yun
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Soiled Meat

Cast iron > torch for searing

At least until the Searzall comes out next year

(with sous vide meat don't go more than 45 seconds each side on your cast iron or you'll start overcooking the insides)

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Dec 4, 2013 around 20:18

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In theory yeah, but the problem with a torch is that it's incredibly uneven. Searing with a skillet gets you a pretty uniform sear across an entire side, whereas with a torch you get spots that are burnt to a crisp and other spots that aren't seared enough

Steve Yun
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I try going in circles to sear, but it feels like by the time i get back to a spot to warm it up again the heating was so superficial that it has already cooled down. And if I make tighter circles, the area gets overheated and ends up singed.

Maybe I can keep at it to improve, but I feel like it'll always be walking a tightrope when I could just slap it on a hot skillet and guarantee a well balanced sear

Steve Yun
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Soiled Meat

Not having circulation is fine.

Here are some people on egullet who used one:
http://forums.egullet.org/topic/144790-sunbeam-mu4000/

Someone complained that theirs was inaccurate, got a new unit, tried a few different things and got better results

review:
http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-an...rst%20look.aspx

another review:
http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/...-duos-sous-vide

Aussie BBQ user review and temperature analysis:
http://www.aussiebbq.info/forum/vie...hp?f=42&t=10595

Less than 1C variation, which seems fine considering that it's not circulating:


$150 clearance:
http://www.thegoodguys.com.au/buyon...w_Cooker_MU4000


edit: holy poo poo Breville is selling rebadged SousVide Supremes for AUS$800? You're an Australian company, Breville

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Dec 6, 2013 around 01:04

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Other things to do with a sous vide setup:

Keep stuff lukewarm:

I'm making Dino's dosa recipe. He says to keep the soaking rice warm. It's cold in my house and my oven doesn't have a pilot light to keep it warm so I just put it in here. My slow cooker would normally be going to 150-160 F on its "warm" setting, which is too hot. With a pid controller you can keep the temp at a nice comfortable 90 F. I might do the same for sourdough bread later

Long term maillard/enzymatic breakdown:

Here is black garlic, which you get by throwing a bunch of garlic cloves (still in their paper) into a sealed container like a mason jar (no water) and keeping the temperature at 140 F for forty days. poo poo's expensive, make your own! It's like if roasted garlic and prunes had an affair and this was their love child

edit: I thought black garlic was fermented but I guess 140F is too high for bacteria and some googling says it's not bacteria work but rather enzymes

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Dec 7, 2013 around 23:40

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Take half out after 48 hours and refrigerate, and let the other half go 72. Have it both ways!

Steve Yun
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Possibly less electricity usage because of the well insulated container, but I don't have a way of knowing for sure. SVS's website says their unit uses as much power as a 60w light bulb once it gets to temperature.

Circulation isn't a big deal because temperature differences in the water equalize pretty well.

But yes, bigger footprint, higher cost.

Steve Yun
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Anova: up to 6 gal/22 liters, but this is a soft limit. Probably less for high temps and more for low temps, depends how good the insulation of your container is, etc.

SVS: 3 gallons (limited by the appliance's size)

Steve Yun
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Base Emitter posted:

Raw newbie question... might be dumb but how fast can sous vide cook a steak? Can I start when I get home from work and not have to wait until midnight to eat? Usually when I see articles on it, they talk about being able to leave something cooking for hours, but that's not really what I'm after, although all the other advantages in the OP sound great.

Depends on the thickness of the steak. Heat takes time to distribute through a food, and the thicker the food the longer it takes. I'm sure there's some math to figure it out but I don't bother because it's complicated and every sous vide recipe has already gone to the trouble to figuring it out for you.

That said, Serious Eats says 45 minutes for a half pound steak and 1 hour for a 2 inch thick 1 pound ribeye. Make sure it spends that much time at the target temperature, not counting the time it takes to heat up to temp (if you're impatient, heat up the water on the stove until it gets to the target temp and then dump it into your sous vide rig and then starting the clock from there.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Dec 11, 2013 around 07:30

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Steve Yun posted:

Keep stuff lukewarm:


I need to make an addendum to this.

This works fine when you have a lot of water (for example just rice sitting in water like above) but for other stuff like batter, dropping batter into the vessel and dropping your thermometer in the batter is a bad idea. Heat doesn't distribute through most food as well as it does through water, so what ends up happening is that the vessel might go up to 120F and make the edges of the batter 120F, but the thermometer will read 80 or 90F because it's in the center of the batter. Why is this a bad thing? The temp on the outsides is going to go higher than you want, maybe high enough to start cooking the food when you're just trying to keep it warm. Or maybe you're trying to encourage fermentation and the temp will go high enough on the outsides to start killing off your bacteria.

Water would distribute the temperature well, but anything thicker like a batter won't so you can have hot spots and cold spots. You could probably get away with this if you're dealing with something as thin as water though. Or oil. I think someone mentioned some restaurants will sous vide lobsters in a tub of butter.

The solution for warming thick foods like batter is to put it inside another vessel and put that vessel in the water, and drop the thermometer in the water.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Dec 12, 2013 around 08:12

Steve Yun
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Well, if they win doesn't this mean they'll go after others later?

Steve Yun
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Soiled Meat

Huh. Dave Arnold's original proof-of-concept for the Searzall was to put a chinois in front of a blow torch. Might have to try this.

Steve Yun
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Have you crunched the numbers to see what that costs you to run for those 40 days? I did some really rough math based on googling things and I think it's like 15c per day to run a 65w incandescent lightbulb (which another post on the page compared sous viders to). So do you figure $6 cooking costs for your black garlic? I've made mayu before (Japanese burned garlic oil puree), and this sounds an awesome way to similarly gently caress with garlic

I have no idea, but that sounds reasonable. My half gallon jar was about 1.25 lbs of garlic, and a pound of the stuff runs about $30 on Amazon

The biggest downside is that your sous vide rig is occupied for an entire month. Many people will just use a spare rice cooker (without a PID) that they've tested to make sure it can maintain 140F, or build their own hot box rigs

Steve Yun
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First handheld broiler test:



So my strainer turned red hot, which was cool, and got a little fireball on the other side of the mesh.

After I was done though, the mesh was discolored and had some soot on it. Is this some coating on the strainer I'm burning off or is it from the propane?

Steve Yun
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I don't want to die so uh I guess I'll toss this strainer and look for something that was already hardened?

edit: I got a second opinion and I'm told by someone who studied materials science that it's probably not bad

quote:

That's a permanent discoloration of the steel caused by high temperatures from the torch-- it's not a big deal at all. The soot itself is going to be somewhat distasteful (it's carbon, basically :P ) but if you are heating the strainer to red hot the main issue is going to be repeated weakening of of the strainer and the metal eventually failing due to the thermal stress.

Short answer: You're not poisoning yourself. It's nothing to worry about, except the risk of your food possible falling out by the strainer failing. :P

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Dec 13, 2013 around 11:36

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Steve Yun
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Another friend tells me water quenching will make it break faster, and to let it air cool.

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Phiberoptik posted:

Any thoughts on the dorkfood sous vide device?

I use the dorkfood and love it. Besides meeting the requirements of decent sous vide, it is also $100, which is cheap enough that you can get two units and use them to make multiple sous vide foods for one meal.

Downsides: kinda big and awkward compared to other PID controllers, ugly and messy compared to other sous vide solutions, makes clicky noises as it switches the heating element on and off

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Dec 16, 2013 around 11:33

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Sub Rosa posted:

I thought those vac packed hams were precooked?

Yeah, and the article mentions that too

edit: also links to a list of the differences between different types of ham, it's a good guide

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Dec 17, 2013 around 19:58

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edit: VVVVV there's your answer.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Dec 17, 2013 around 20:16

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I didn't realize until just now that Sansaire is a pun.

Sans air.

Steve Yun
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The small pistol grip ones are usually butane, the big hardware store blow torches are usually propane (and some propylene (MAP Pro))

Steve Yun
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I did!

Make sure the peppercorn gets chopped up, or even mill it into the seasoning, because my food processor didn't seem to want to chop them up, and biting into a whole peppercorn is kinda zingy.

Make sure your sous vide vessel is big enough for the assembled turchetta, mine wasn't so I had to lop off the ends after having gone through the trouble of tying and vacuum sealing it.

The oil is going to sputter like hell when you fry the porchetta. Don't get scared and turn down the heat unless it goes too hot. You want to drop the turchetta in when it's 400F, and it will cruise at 350F. My standard stove at max heat was able to keep it at 350F, but I turned off the heat briefly and when I turned it on again it was never able to recover to 350F, instead hovering around 320F. The lower heat meant it took longer to brown, which led to the meat getting overcooked, which made the turkey tougher.

If you have any more questions in the middle of making it, feel free to fire away

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Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

The Midniter posted:

Was it worth it?

It's definitely delicious but it's also a lot of work for something that's relatively small, so you're kind of on the verge of some effort/reward ratio tolerance.

But hey, for a holiday roast you're supposed to go all out, right? I'm going to do it again for Christmas

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