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I haven't seen anybody talk about major themes in the series yet, even if we are just one episode in. Right now, it looks like a coming of age story for Kouta. Learning about what responsibility truly is and all that stuff. I really like stories like that so I'm looking forward to more. Plus the mild sci-fi environment and somewhat mature tone are really nice. Also, JK could out dance any one in Team Gaim.
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Oct 9, 2013 21:59
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Chas McGill posted:So this probably isn't the best Kamen Rider thing to lose my Kamen Rider virginity to? Well, that's hard to say off one episode, but Double (Kamen Rider W) is the most-often recommended show to start with. It's certainly one of the best all-around. Any other post-Decade show shouldn't be too bad, either. (OOO, Fourze, Wizard) Personally, my advice would be to look at all the Heisei shows and decide what looks cool to you. Then you can watch W after that. RBX posted:Seriously judging a whole shows characters and plot from the first episode? I can tell this is going to be one of those seasons where everybody rushes to be first to call it poo poo so they can say I liked Wizard and Decade.  Not the both didn't have their problems. I went in to Decade expecting it to be terrible and it turned out that I really enjoyed Tsukasa, Natsumelon and Daiki's antics.
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Oct 9, 2013 22:57
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We told you so
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I wouldn't recommend Wizard as a starting series, but then again I found it really boring beyond the first episode or two and dropped it about 6 episodes in and never went beyond that. I'm not sure Fourze would be great either unless you're specifically looking for or enjoy really silly and light-hearted shows. I loved Fourze, even if I think it kind of dropped the ball beyond the character introduction arcs and flanderized much of the cast it still remained very fun throughout, but it's probably not the greatest starting series because of it. Similar to how Hibiki is a great show, but not really indicative of the franchise as a whole and probably not the best starter because of it. W, OOO, Kuuga and Agito are all good recommendations for the newer stuff though.
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Oct 9, 2013 23:01
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I think my main problem with Gaim's first episode is that it just felt really poorly-paced—all the interesting things were sort of stuck in the last 5-7 minutes of the episode. The Pokémon battle was short and boring, the announcer guy was grating, and Kouta...seems kinda bland and just makes me think of some guy who's like Godai but isn't actually Godai. Going back and watching the first episodes of, say, Fourze or Wizard (also a Wizard fan ) that didn't have these same pacing issues just felt a lot more refreshing and enjoyable than what I got out of the first episode of Gaim. That being said though, I'm sure things will pick up speed pretty soon, it's not like I'm going to drop the show or anything after just 20 minutes. I am super pumped for a show with more than just a primary/secondary Rider, since my first series was Kabuto and that had a fuckton of guys running around and being great. (Speaking of which, I also recommend not just going with W as a first series because everyone says so; take a bunch of first episodes and just give them a glance, then watch what captures your interest. I had to go through a bunch of series before settling on one that I thought would be good.) Watching Team Gaim dance (ugh) just makes me wish JK was still around, goddamn. A whole team of JKs. Team JK 
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Oct 9, 2013 23:24
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A lot of the previous seasons either have the character already know how to use their transformation, or some one to help him to figure it out, which is why maybe this feels different? I liked that we got a lot of stuff to think about during the first episode, lately there hasn't been a Rider show that didn't take place in our "normal" world. Also first Rider chat: I watched Kabuto as my first series, I would recommend it. A lot of people say to watch W, but while its otherwise a great show it has that really annoying girl who is always around.
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Oct 9, 2013 23:52
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I haven't really watched a lot of Kamen Rider shows to be honest yet, so I don't really know what a lot of the first episodes are like, but I definitely didn't like the first episode here. I'm just really uninterested in some of the big plot setups like the mysterious lady. I'll keep watching to see if it gets better but now knowing that the writer of that Madoka Magica show wrote it doesn't really give me much hope, personally. Was anyone really reminded of Jet Set Radio with the non-Rider costume design here, though?
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Oct 9, 2013 23:53
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Chas McGill posted:So this probably isn't the best Kamen Rider thing to lose my Kamen Rider virginity to? The real, foolproof way to choose a first Rider: find a bugman with a cool costume, then find out who it is. If it's Decade get new eyes, otherwise watch that series.
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Oct 10, 2013 00:06
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dordreff posted:The real, foolproof way to choose a first Rider: find a bugman with a cool costume, then find out who it is. If it's Decade get new eyes, otherwise watch that series. Truth. I found Fourze very interesting looking, lots of white. So I started watching it and now I'm moving on to OOO then W.
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Oct 10, 2013 00:34
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Kamen Rider ZO was my first Rider ever. Then I got the HK Subs for Kamen Rider Black and was enthralled. Kuuga was my third, V3 was my fourth, then W. I watched OOOs weekly. I'm still working my way through Agito but it's not bad, just kind of annoying at times. I tried to watch Fourze but it's not the kind of show I enjoy honestly. If I had to rate them, V3 would come first, then Black, then Kuuga (though the two are really interchangeable) and W comes in fourth. Or behind ZO if that's an option.
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Oct 10, 2013 00:55
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FutureFriend posted:Was anyone really reminded of Jet Set Radio with the non-Rider costume design here, though? I totally agree, I thought the vibe of the episode in general was Jet Set-ish.
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Oct 10, 2013 00:59
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RBX posted:I totally agree, I thought the vibe of the episode in general was Jet Set-ish. That's one of the best parts. The actual best part is Kouta dicking around with his weapons trying to figure out how to use them. That's a lot of fun and Kamen Rider usually ignores that sort of thing or just has someone tell the hero to do stuff a certain way.
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Oct 10, 2013 01:03
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Demicol posted:I liked that we got a lot of stuff to think about during the first episode, lately there hasn't been a Rider show that didn't take place in our "normal" world. I think it's just the city that's weird, but mostly because I hope they're sticking to the vague shared continuity thing they've been doing since Double.
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Oct 10, 2013 01:52
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Doesn't seem like it since Wizard only met Gaim by crossing over into another dimension/universe. Or it's the far future since crossing into that dimension ignored time since a past version of Kosuke was there.
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Oct 10, 2013 02:12
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Fred is on posted:I think it's just the city that's weird, but mostly because I hope they're sticking to the vague shared continuity thing they've been doing since Double. Wizard sort of broke the chain with Zaidan X not appearing at all.
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Oct 10, 2013 03:37
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Now that I think about it, I think the only other Heisei Rider series that started out with the main character not already knowing how to use their powers/have someone to tell them was Faiz, although despite not knowing how to use it Takumi was a pretty quick learner.Allarion posted:Doesn't seem like it since Wizard only met Gaim by crossing over into another dimension/universe. Or it's the far future since crossing into that dimension ignored time since a past version of Kosuke was there. They might do what they did with OOO and have an AU version of him that fits in the shared continuity.
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Oct 10, 2013 04:45
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You missed quite a few. Like, almost half the shows quite a few. Kuuga, Agito, Ryuki (I think, haven't seen it), Den-O, OOO and Fourze all had the main character stumbling on to powers they didn't have before and transforming for the first time in the first episode. They may not have played around much with the powers in it, though some of them like Kuuga did in successive ones, but they still did regardless. Even if you want to confine it to shows where no-one told them how to use it there's still Kuuga and Agito at the very least.
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Oct 10, 2013 04:54
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Take Agito off that list actually, though this probably isn't a good place for a general discussion about the franchise.
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Oct 10, 2013 05:30
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Didn't Agito transform for the first time in his first episode and act confused as to what had happened? Or did he transform at some point between the incident on the ship and the first episode? Even if he did, he still had no real idea what he was doing at the start of the show and was a little freaked out by it from what I recall.
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Oct 10, 2013 05:35
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Potsticker posted:Wizard sort of broke the chain with Zaidan X not appearing at all. I don't think it appeared in OOO either, but they went and connected it to the Kougami Foundation in Movie Wars Megamax, if I recall. That movie was pretty great in how it brought three shows together. Of course, worrying too much about continuity in Kamen Rider is usually not worth it, since how it's handled varies depending on the writer. I do think it's nice, though, that Gaim has a distinct setting in Zawame City. Double had that going for it, too, and Fourze to a lesser extent, and it helped give the shows a distinct flavor.
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Oct 10, 2013 05:48
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Well, I watched it. Positives: I actually quite like the main character and the fact that he works poo poo jobs to reduce the burden on his sis gives me some respect for him. A lot of it is bad in a funny way, rather than just bad. Like the shady lock seed dealer hanging out in the juice bar. Negatives: The dance interludes got old incredibly fast. A lot of it is just bad without being funny. When it comes down to it, I don't think I was ever going to genuinely like this, but decided to watch out of a sense of curiousity. I can see why there might be a significant nostalgia factor if you grew up watching shows like this. I've never even watched Power Rangers, so I don't even get any comforting childhood vibes from it. However, I think I'd love a show where a mentally unstable protagonist who has been brought up on Kamen Rider/superhero media convinces himself that he's living out the adventures he saw on TV. I could see him rolling around on his own amongst cardboard boxes and dustbins in the middle of the street. The community would band together to make sure he doesn't hurt himself too badly, and some of the younger people would humour him in his fantasy by dressing up in rubber suits.
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Oct 10, 2013 18:31
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Chas McGill posted:I think I'd love a show where a mentally unstable protagonist who has been brought up on Kamen Rider/superhero media convinces himself that he's living out the adventures he saw on TV. I could see him rolling around on his own amongst cardboard boxes and dustbins in the middle of the street. The community would band together to make sure he doesn't hurt himself too badly, and some of the younger people would humour him in his fantasy by dressing up in rubber suits. Watch Akibaranger then. It's a live action (i.e. toku) show that's pretty much this but the cast manage to make fights more than rolling in the dirt by the power of their own delusions. Also, the new anime Flamenco Samurai may be like this too apparently.
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Oct 10, 2013 18:38
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tsob posted:Watch Akibaranger then. It's a live action (i.e. toku) show that's pretty much this but the cast manage to make fights more than rolling in the dirt by the power of their own delusions. Also, the new anime Flamenco Samurai may be like this too apparently.
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Oct 10, 2013 18:41
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One thing I realized, that I really dislike. Like, Kamen Rider is a toy show now, I get that. Fine, whatever. Could it at least not look like it? Kuuga had a poo poo ton of toys. All of his forms, his two bikes...but they were story based. They weren't thrown in as a gimmick, they were introduced due to plot and had a logical reason to exist. Kuuga felt like a drama series about a dude who became a monster to fight monsters, even if I have issues with Kuuga's design. The fact that he had so many other forms made sense and were seeded through out the series. I'd ask what changed but I know what changed. I miss Kamen Rider when it was trying to just be a fun super hero action show about a dude fighting monsters. That's when Kamen Rider is at its best, generally speaking. Gaim is just really disappointing so far. It feels like an anime that got crushed into a toy commercial.
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Oct 10, 2013 18:51
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The toys are more obvious now, but Kamen Rider has always been about selling poo poo. That's why television shows get green-lighted, because people think they'll make money. And I don't think you should judge it by the first episode so much, because after Wizard's first one most people thought it was gonna be an outstanding entry in the series.
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Oct 10, 2013 19:47
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Justin_Brett posted:The toys are more obvious now, but Kamen Rider has always been about selling poo poo. That's why television shows get green-lighted, because people think they'll make money. I know that, I just prefer it when it isn't so obvious. Tell your story first, let the toys be just cool things kids WANT to have. Don't literally shill them and make them look like toys, please. And honestly, I really hated Wizard's first episode. Like, I really hate it. I gave Fourze a few episodes even though the tone just didn't work for me, and it was fun but didn't keep my interest. OOOs I watched all the way through weekly, but I can't say I have any great urge to do so again. Wizard? Wizard gave me a headache and made me drop it first episode. Gaim is not as bad as Wizard, not by a long shot. It's just not very focused and all over the place. Oh and the dancing sucks. I will harp on this for as long as it's a thing in the story.
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Oct 10, 2013 19:52
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Burkion posted:I know that, I just prefer it when it isn't so obvious. Tell your story first, let the toys be just cool things kids WANT to have. Don't literally shill them and make them look like toys, please. It sounds like you just don't like Kamen Rider anymore. I mean, the story can justify the toys all it wants, but it's still obvious what they are. Some people don't have the ability to not mind and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Oct 10, 2013 19:54
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Am I the only one who kind of liked the dancing?
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Oct 10, 2013 19:57
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Caphi posted:It sounds like you just don't like Kamen Rider anymore. I mean, the story can justify the toys all it wants, but it's still obvious what they are. Some people don't have the ability to not mind and there's nothing wrong with that. I think you misspoke there. I love Kamen Rider. I don't like what it has become. I'm hoping Gaim will change things around, but the fruit theme is just so...irrevocably childish. Den-O pulled it off fine, Gaim is just not subtle at all, and the design of his weapons and suit just don't mesh well. The Gun Sword looks very awkward and forced, as if the gun part was an afterthought, and the orange sword is just kind of silly all around, far too large without looking like an actual weapon. The combined form is even worse, lacking any elegance in design, just two toys that aren't even the same sized attached at the hilt. I could over look all of this, however. V3 still has one of the worst Rider designs I've ever seen and Lord knows his show is campy as all hell today. Still the best series I've ever seen, however. The tone of the show, the balance, the sense of fun without sacrificing the danger involved-it had its slow moments, but V3 was fantastic even with all the silliness. Gaim, I hope, will surprise me as well. Not that I have much choice in the matter. I'm watching the show weekly with two other friends, one episode of Gaim and one episode of Black per week. I will note, as I know how this can come off-I liked Double just fine. I felt that the villains could have been better, but Double is the best case scenario for what Kamen Rider has become, and it was great. OOOs was just kind of bland and Maki was an awful main villain, but it had a lot of potential and I really liked how it ended for the most part.
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Oct 10, 2013 20:04
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Burkion posted:I'm hoping Gaim will change things around, but the fruit theme is just so...irrevocably childish. What the gently caress is wrong with you?
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Oct 10, 2013 20:20
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Silver2195 posted:Am I the only one who kind of liked the dancing? Nope, I thought it was fantastic as well.
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Oct 10, 2013 20:37
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There's supposedly a translated interview going up on HJU in a bit that confirms these things: -Gaim has been in development since before 2012, prior to Wizard actually. By the time Takase came on board, Urobochi had already been a part of the team with all of the major themes and motifs in place. The last Rider show with a long development cycle was Double. -"Tasaki reveals that dancing in Gaim represents youth, and a character's ties to youth. As characters mature, they move on to other things. So that pretty much confirms suspicions that the dance sequences are probably going to be downplayed as the series' plot develops" -"Urobuchi is behind Yggdrasil and Gaim using a "fictional city" setting like Zawame City. Tasaki says Kota will "change drastically" and Urobuchi felt a fictional city gave him more room for showing the ways Kota was changing as a protagonist." -"Tasaki concedes that the first episodes are "strangely basic" but says there are "many twists" coming up." -"Takebe disliked the "two Rider" formula post-W, and wanted to scrap it in favor of multiple Riders. Urobuchi, a big Ryuki fan, agreed." Quote from @lowvisibility on Twitter edit: -"Tasaki confirms that Gaim's first two episodes are intentionally loaded with early Heisei Rider references, says "Urobuchi's trap" quote ... Urobuchi's plan is to build up "a story most fans are used to," then "tear it down with new and surprising twists." "It's not enough to... use successful things from previous shows, it's uninteresting... you might as well watch that show instead."" Rei_ fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Oct 10, 2013 |
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Oct 10, 2013 20:48
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And this is why I'm not saying Gaim sucks, despite me being so critical of the writing. Gaim looks like it could have promise, it really, honestly does. I want it to-and stuff like that, promises of the twists to come, honestly makes me hopeful. But the dancing is still far too stiff and has no energy. If you're going to dance, make a show of it for the love of God. What I think would have been wonderful? Work the dancing into the actual Rider stuff. Have him dance-fight. Ballet, break dancing, all kinds of different movements and styles would lend themselves to spicing up otherwise dull fights where the Rider in question just swings around his plastic swords. The suit, outside of the shoulder pads, lends itself well enough to that idea too. I doubt it'll happen though. EDIT: Holy crap the writer said exactly what I did. Now color me interested.
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Oct 10, 2013 20:53
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It sounds like it's less Gaim you don't like and more most of the recent Heisei shows. Which I can understand, but I'll reserve judgement about the toys until they introduce one, make it the focal point of a scene, and then never use it again, ever (which probably will happen, honestly).
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Oct 10, 2013 21:15
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You shut your god drat mouth about the Boron Booster.
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Oct 10, 2013 21:16
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Here's your full Gaimu Interview http://henshinjustice.com/2013/10/10/gaim-director-ryuta-tasaki-on-urobuchis-trap/
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Oct 10, 2013 23:23
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Rei_ posted:You shut your god drat mouth about the Boron Booster. I was more thinking about Ixa's whistles, which you'd think Nago would spam considering how useful the idea of it is.
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Oct 10, 2013 23:30
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Burkion posted:If you're going to dance, make a show of it Now I'm just sad they never gave Captain Marvelous a solo Rider spinoff.
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Oct 10, 2013 23:33
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Rei_ posted:
 This is getting me so hyped for Gaim it's ridiculous.
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Oct 11, 2013 10:33
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Scratchman Apoo posted:
Yes but you see the dance sequences are no good
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Oct 11, 2013 18:20
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I fail to see the problem with criticizing dancing that is, on a technical level, awful and amateurish when they're supposed to be one of the elite dancing teams in the city that only got screwed over because of sabotage. You can't play the children's show defense on this, this isn't a writing issue. This is just straight up a failure on their behalf. I have SEEN children shows with better dancing than this. Hell, I've seen better break dancing in Kamen Rider than this. Kamen Rider Black had an episode where a small section of its B plot was about a bunch of break dancers who were competing with other break dancers for turf and Oh CHRIST that's where he got the inspiration from. Goddamnit Gen.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:03
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