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ArchangeI posted:I dunno. it sounds to me like the money is supposed to pay primarily for running costs to whoever it is you pay for buying buildings and poo poo. It's not like they are going to buy up crafting material en masse. The money won't end up in the player-driven economy. Essentially all the money goes straight back to the NPCs anyway, who as we've seen have a traditional obligation to make it disappear forever instead of spending it. Classic money sink.
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Oct 4, 2014 21:38
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I'm glad to have more Log Horizon, but the episode was a little confusing overall. It certainly jumps right back into the swing of things, like the last episode of season 1 had been last week instead of half a year ago. The economics plotline though, which I assume is the main one for the season, looks exciting. I wouldn't mind seeing a full raid in action. Log Horizon as a MMORPG has always been a backdrop to the economics and politicking that make up the main conflicts, but the gameplay we see has been cool.
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Oct 4, 2014 21:44
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I actually really liked the fact that they animated scenes set in reality and had the style of it more detailed to reflect that.
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Oct 4, 2014 21:53
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ArchangeI posted:I dunno. it sounds to me like the money is supposed to pay primarily for running costs to whoever it is you pay for buying buildings and poo poo. It's not like they are going to buy up crafting material en masse. The money won't end up in the player-driven economy. I think they need to pay monthly for upkeep. They had to buy all the player-centric building to prevent them from used against them. If the guild building is 5 million, then I imagine that the upkeep costs for all the buildings will be 10 million a month. And knowing Shiro, I can bet that the trillions that they need isn't just for upkeep.
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Oct 4, 2014 21:59
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Dante Logos posted:
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Oct 4, 2014 22:06
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Paracelsus posted:Hope he's prepared for currency devaluation. I fully expect this crisis to be solved via an item duping glitch.
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Oct 4, 2014 22:36
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Seems like a pretty decent start. The animation quality definitely dropped a bit but it didn't seem distractingly bad after a short time, though Nyanta looked a bit off. Rudy AKA Rundelhaus Code AKA Best Adventurer JP looks fine so all is well in the world. Can't believe I'm actually excited for a plot about finance.
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Oct 5, 2014 00:40
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I just started watching this and just got to episode 10. I had the urge to re-install Guild Wars 1 and played for a bit reminiscing the fun I had many years ago playing this... I can't be the only one that re-installed games because of this series right?
Oh Snapalope fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 01:06
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I bet they'll introduce a new invention: loaning, investing, etc. Would kind of fit the way how we've seen modern inventions being applied to the world.
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Oct 5, 2014 01:13
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ADTRW > Log Horizon: I need the Q4 tax consequences for this Godly Plate of the Whale
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Oct 5, 2014 01:50
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Griever posted:Seems like a pretty decent start. The animation quality definitely dropped a bit but it didn't seem distractingly bad after a short time, though Nyanta looked a bit off. It's finance solved via  so it's pretty much perfect.
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Oct 5, 2014 02:37
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I like how they came up with an explanation for the normal RPG caveat of "why the gently caress do monsters have money on them?"
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Oct 5, 2014 03:04
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Demicol posted:When can I buy a goat-slime plushie Seriously that thing is goddamn amazing.  If the studio or the LN writer or somebody doesn't get some marketing deal on that they are missing out. That'd be an awesome stress ball for your desk too. Good first episode leading things off, the end jumping ahead a few months was a bit jarring but otherwise it was well handled. Mo_Steel fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 05:07
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Dante Logos posted:I think they need to pay monthly for upkeep. They had to buy all the player-centric building to prevent them from used against them. If the guild building is 5 million, then I imagine that the upkeep costs for all the buildings will be 10 million a month. Yeah probably, seeing as with a 10mil/month upkeep, if Shiroe had 80 trillion then that would last him around A MILLION loving YEARS. Seriously what the gently caress does he need that much money for? Is he just gonna buy every building in the world? I hope they don't drag this out too long, keeping the point of the story hidden from the viewer is a cheap and bad tactic.
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Oct 5, 2014 05:38
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He's going to gain control of the entire universe's monetary supply then launch it into the sun and institute socialism.
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Oct 5, 2014 05:39
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XboxPants posted:Yeah probably, seeing as with a 10mil/month upkeep, if Shiroe had 80 trillion then that would last him around A MILLION loving YEARS. There shall be one person, who shall lead the world into a new age of prosperity. It shall be the man who /glasses the most.
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Oct 5, 2014 05:40
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Nureha's evil round table (as seen in the op) only has two people with glasses, so obviously they are doomed to failure.
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Oct 5, 2014 05:56
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He needs the money to buy everyone in Akihabara glasses. Then they will truly be invincible.
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Oct 5, 2014 09:16
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XboxPants posted:Yeah probably, seeing as with a 10mil/month upkeep, if Shiroe had 80 trillion then that would last him around A MILLION loving YEARS. The teleportation gates? Other buildings, if not the entirety of Akihabara? Those town guard NPCs they spent some time on in this episode? Maybe he wants to pay advance for x amount of time to ensure another guild doesn't wind up taking control of Akiba? As much of the mechanics as they've delved into, it's still not exactly clear how a lot of things work. Given no one else but the Round Table has the resources in their area to challenge them, it hasn't been a problem yet. But a dictatorship like Plant Hwyaden, forcing everyone into one guild etc. could pretty easily upset what Shiroe/LH/Round Table folks have managed.
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Oct 5, 2014 10:29
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With that amount, it's probably going to be to form something like a central banking system.
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Oct 5, 2014 10:48
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Yeah that'd make sense too, with the whole spiel about the Kunie clan not being actual lenders or anything like real financial institutions.
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Oct 5, 2014 11:01
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Drifter posted:
 I think you just found this season's hamburger that tastes like real food!
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Oct 5, 2014 13:33
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Considering that several past plans have relied on the fact that adventurers are a bunch of goons (fight because this princess is MAD MOE YO), honestly body pillows for all isn't that far out there.
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Oct 5, 2014 13:57
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To keep in check runaway inflation caused by the technological advances brought by adventurers and the loot that they continually accrue, they need to convert their currency to one that's backed by anime body pillows and moe figurines. The Otaku standard.
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Oct 5, 2014 14:01
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requesting a microeconomics explanation of the ramifications of shiroe's plan from mr spacious cpa
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Oct 6, 2014 14:15
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DrSunshine posted:To keep in check runaway inflation caused by the technological advances brought by adventurers and the loot that they continually accrue, they need to convert their currency to one that's backed by anime body pillows and moe figurines. The Otaku standard. This is not a bad idea, really. (Well, the basic CONCEPT of it.) A gold standard in this world would be worthless because anyone can go trotting out and massacre a bunch of monsters for money. If this is the case then you need to find something ELSE which is scarce to act as the backbone of an economy because gold is common as gently caress.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:09
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Well, it is roughly the size of the entire global financial market, currently estimated at around 156 trillion USD so maybe Shiroe wants to use it as a way to launch a global economy.  Oh man better speculate on Raid futures! EDIT: Or, as CEO Nwabudike Morgan put it so eloquently -- CEO Nwabudike Morgan, The Centauri Monopoly posted:Our first challenge is to create an entire economic infrastructure, from top to bottom, out of whole cloth. No gradual evolution from previous economic systems is possible, because there is no previous economic system. Each interdependent piece must be materialized simultaneously and in perfect working order; otherwise the system will crash out before it ever gets off the ground. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 15:14
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Phobophilia posted:requesting a microeconomics explanation of the ramifications of shiroe's plan from mr spacious cpa ive invested heavily in animated gifs and screencaps of Akatsuki because when the banks fail moe will prevail. however if Naotsugu has another "every pitcher needs a catcher" line it might be time to diversify 
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Oct 6, 2014 15:25
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Gearhead posted:This is not a bad idea, really. (Well, the basic CONCEPT of it.) Well, gold would still represent a certain investment of time and labor. If a slain Goblin gives you 100 gp, then 100 gp is literally the value of the time it takes to go out and kill a Goblin. In that sense I find it curious that no one in the story has so far mentioned the possibility of taxes. Assuming a population of 5,000 players in Akihibara, that would be 2,000 gp per player per month to cover the running costs. Depending on the state of the economy, that might either be crippling or just a day of grinding goblins. And that is before things like business licenses or sales taxes.
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Oct 6, 2014 16:27
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ArchangeI posted:Well, gold would still represent a certain investment of time and labor. If a slain Goblin gives you 100 gp, then 100 gp is literally the value of the time it takes to go out and kill a Goblin. In that sense I find it curious that no one in the story has so far mentioned the possibility of taxes. Assuming a population of 5,000 players in Akihibara, that would be 2,000 gp per player per month to cover the running costs. Depending on the state of the economy, that might either be crippling or just a day of grinding goblins. And that is before things like business licenses or sales taxes. Volume 2: Chapter 3: Sunflower and Lily of the Valley posted:Cresscent Burger: 15 gold So, 300 gold buys you a room at an inn for a month. 7x that in taxes might be considered a lot for some players.
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Oct 6, 2014 16:43
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ArchangeI posted:Well, gold would still represent a certain investment of time and labor. If a slain Goblin gives you 100 gp, then 100 gp is literally the value of the time it takes to go out and kill a Goblin. In that sense I find it curious that no one in the story has so far mentioned the possibility of taxes. Assuming a population of 5,000 players in Akihibara, that would be 2,000 gp per player per month to cover the running costs. Depending on the state of the economy, that might either be crippling or just a day of grinding goblins. And that is before things like business licenses or sales taxes. I feel like the novel said that a goblin drops 6 gold. But yeah, in this game rather than gold being a resource based currency, it's a labor based currency. If an adventurer can earn 300 gold an hour killing monsters, then it just means 300 gold is equivalent to an hour of labor. This isn't completely without precedent; at one point China used gathered cowrie seashells as money, and I seem to recall some historical culture used labor intensive braided plant strips, but am failing at googling it. There are even advantages to the system; you don't need a centralized minting business and counterfeiters are basically just low paid labor doing the work for you. There's two problems I can see with the taxation plan. First, it would make the Round Table unpopular, and we've already seen Plant Hwaden is willing to use manipulation against them. Second, the money spent on rent is being removed from the economy completely; even if the adventurers could afford the tax, if they're not making at least 2,000 gp a month on average from monsters (earning money from trade with other players doesn't count) the money supply will gradually shrink.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:09
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I thought there was a 1gp tax for using the bank/guild building, and that's how the Round Table funded itself?
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Oct 6, 2014 17:16
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I'm dying to know where they're going with this, because 80 trillion is such an absurdly huge number. It's not maintenance money, this is like 'buy every property in the country' money. (if we assume that 5 million is a pretty standard price, that's still 16 million purchases)
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Oct 6, 2014 17:35
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It's the national glasses fund.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:58
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Bremen posted:I feel like the novel said that a goblin drops 6 gold. But yeah, in this game rather than gold being a resource based currency, it's a labor based currency. If an adventurer can earn 300 gold an hour killing monsters, then it just means 300 gold is equivalent to an hour of labor. This isn't completely without precedent; at one point China used gathered cowrie seashells as money, and I seem to recall some historical culture used labor intensive braided plant strips, but am failing at googling it. There are even advantages to the system; you don't need a centralized minting business and counterfeiters are basically just low paid labor doing the work for you. The monetary system looks like a poster child for chartalism to me. Money is introduced into the economy via monsters, then it is drained via rent. Seems to be a reasonable bet that the purpose of the system is to get adventurers to kill monsters.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:49
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genericnick posted:The monetary system looks like a poster child for chartalism to me. Money is introduced into the economy via monsters, then it is drained via rent. Seems to be a reasonable bet that the purpose of the system is to get adventurers to kill monsters. Well we already saw what happens if you go too long without cleaning up the small fry in the goblin war.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:57
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Gils posted:I'm dying to know where they're going with this, because 80 trillion is such an absurdly huge number. It's not maintenance money, this is like 'buy every property in the country' money. (if we assume that 5 million is a pretty standard price, that's still 16 million purchases) It's either going to fund a reserve bank/create their own finance clan, or it'll go towards funding a war at multiple levels (military, economic, etc.) simultaneously.
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Oct 6, 2014 21:30
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I would not be shocked if Shiroe sat down and figured out how much it would take to purchase what needed to be purchased and then worked out the costs of maintenance. And then came up with a method of making that money, and the stupid huge figure is actually the money he needs to set something up that will run itself.
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Oct 6, 2014 22:42
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glomkettle posted:Well we already saw what happens if you go too long without cleaning up the small fry in the goblin war. God, how boring will that be when all the lowbies get high level and there's nobody to take low level quests to keep populations low. Guilds gonna give goblin genociding as the punishment detail. gently caress I gotta spend the next week killing gobs can't I take out the trash or clean the toilets?
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Oct 6, 2014 22:44
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Bad Moon posted:God, how boring will that be when all the lowbies get high level and there's nobody to take low level quests to keep populations low. Guilds gonna give goblin genociding as the punishment detail. gently caress I gotta spend the next week killing gobs can't I take out the trash or clean the toilets? Dude they're just gonna make it a festival and killing gobbos will be a party game. Then Maryelle will complain that they've just got too drat many goblin corpses leftover so they have to have an after-festival festival.
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Oct 6, 2014 22:48
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