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Medullah
Aug 13, 2003

FEAR MY SHARK ROCKET IT REALLY SUCKS AND BLOWS


Jagermonster posted:

This type of thing has been going on for a long time. The people who play villains on soap operas have long been targeted with harassment. I remember reading an interview with an actor on Dawson’s creek who said they got threats for things their character did. Social media probably supercharged it since people can just sit around all day hurling abuse and threats directly at actors.

The kid who played Joffrey straight up quit acting because of the hate he got.

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Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



Medullah posted:

The kid who played Joffrey straight up quit acting because of the hate he got.

As did Jake Lloyd (apparently he was bullied to the point of nervous breakdowns in school), who eventually developed paranoid schizophrenia. Mara Wilson quit acting because of all the sexual harassment she got as a prepubescent teenager, and of course Macaulay Culkin spent several years as a mess before straightening himself out.

The life of a star actor is bizarre beyond belief even for the strongest adult; I cannot imagine what it's like for a child.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



It's not actually true in Jack Gleeson's case. He had announced he was retiring after Game of Thrones years in advance. It was always his plan to go to school after.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.



Sgt. Politeness posted:

I'm not super into the lighter tone they're taking with Zemo or for that matter Bucky. This smirking jokey bad guy and comedically exasperated good guy poo poo is usually my jam but it just doesn't feel right with these characters. Also disappointed that we're already back to "Antifa is just as bad!" but that was pretty inevitable.

Zemo is Baron Zemo. He's an infiltration and psy-op expert. If he's got a lighter tone it's not for us, it's to ingratiate himself to Bucky and Sam enough for them keep letting him tag along outside of prison until he gets the upper hand. It's already worked, he killed an unarmed man in front of them and they both just got in his stolen car and rode away with him. Sam had like one line of concern.

Sgt. Politeness
Sep 29, 2003

I've seen shit you people wouldn't believe. Cop cars on fire off the shoulder of I-94. I watched search lights glitter in the dark near the Ambassador Bridge. All those moments will be lost in time, like piss in the drain. Time to retch.

^^^^^Maybe but it could just as easily be lazy writing.

Soonmot posted:

We're not though because the other guy with her was pretty freaked out by what she did.

Sure, and that's good, but it'll be a convenient way of avoiding a real discussion when that guy dies and the only globalist we're left with is a murderer. Like if it was climate change and the antagonists were eco terrorists but the show never had any regular activists or climate scientists because then the only example is these strawmen and saving the climate never feels like a realistic option. It just feels like "Socialism doesn't work because the commies are just as bad as the fascists", they love to make real change sound like a pipe dream.

Again, the shows not over, I just keep making the mistake of getting my hopes up and then being reminded it's still an American TV series made by corporate entities and as one of those it's actually doing pretty good by even bringing some of these things up (even if it's not ready to have the actual conversations)

Also even with the potential deaths, these Flag Smashers are way less Strawmen than the comic character they're based on, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

Sgt. Politeness fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Apr 4, 2021

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Timby posted:

As did Jake Lloyd (apparently he was bullied to the point of nervous breakdowns in school), who eventually developed paranoid schizophrenia. Mara Wilson quit acting because of all the sexual harassment she got as a prepubescent teenager, and of course Macaulay Culkin spent several years as a mess before straightening himself out.

The life of a star actor is bizarre beyond belief even for the strongest adult; I cannot imagine what it's like for a child.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ8QpMEyLN8

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

Sgt. Politeness posted:

Also even with the potential deaths, these Flag Smashers are way less Strawmen than the comic character they're based on, so I guess I shouldn't complain.
It's a completely valid complaint that I agree with. I was just saying in the other thread how tiresome it is to have a character who would otherwise be completely in the right have to do Naughty Things so that they aren't actually completely in the right, and how frequently this trope gets forced onto people who don't like the nationalist/capitalist status quo.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008





Blowing up a bunch of people in a group that's coded to be a global version of ICE is actually a cool and good thing for her to do, and a total hero move. She should kill all the people denying medicine to refugees and helping evil Captain America raid refugee camps and brutalize people, IMHO. Her companion who says they shouldn't have done it is actually wrong, and his arc will probably be becoming a shitlib and selling her out cause he likes the dream but doesn't want to get his hands dirty to accomplish it, and the show will say he is good for doing so.

Vince MechMahon fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Apr 4, 2021

Vandar
Sep 13, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?







Gavok posted:

Now I'm reminded of a funny story when they were starting up the show/wrestling promotion Lucha Underground. Rather than get a wrestling personality to portray the man in charge, they instead got actor Luis Fernandez-Gil to play a character. So he made his debut at a AAA show in Mexico to hype up Lucha Underground and successfully pissed off the crowd. When he went backstage, he was wide-eyed and said one guy screamed something explicit involving his mother that I won't repeat here.

The people backstage were like, "Wow, you're doing great!"

I miss Dario so much.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009


Vince MechMahon posted:

Blowing up a bunch of people in a group that's coded to be a global version of ICE is actually a cool and good thing for her to do, and a total hero move. She should kill all the people denying medicine to refugees and helping evil Captain America raid refugee camps and brutalize people, IMHO. Her companion who says they shouldn't have done it is actually wrong, and his arc will probably be becoming a shitlib and selling her out cause he likes the dream but doesn't want to get his hands dirty to accomplish it, and the show will say he is good for doing so.

The thing I find a little odd is the decision that the refugees would be the ones that didn't get Snapped, instead of the ones coming back. Like, to me that's the more likely outcome "Oh, you were dust for 5 years, too bad pal, your house was eminent domained and bulldozed to put up a sever farm, guess you got go to a 'resettlement facility'".

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk

I never got the impression that the Global Repatration Force or whatever were supposed to be as bad as ICE, more like any given crappy bureaucratic entity that doesn't properly apply the resources it's given because it's tied into the agendas of a bunch of dumb douchebags, like organizations that are responsible for misappropriated/poorly distributed humanitarian aid

If they were like ICE they'd probably be hunting down people who broke laws during the blip and locking them up indefinitely with no charges and no plans for trial

OnimaruXLR fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Apr 4, 2021

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008





OnimaruXLR posted:

I never got the impression that the Global Repatration Force or whatever were supposed to be as bad as ICE, more like any given crappy bureaucratic entity that doesn't properly apply the resources it's given because it's tied into the agendas of a bunch of dumb douchebags, like organizations that are responsible for misappropriated/poorly distributed humanitarian aid

If they were like ICE they'd probably be hunting down people who broke laws during the blip and locking them up indefinitely with no charges and no plans for trial

Evil Captain America leads a heavily armed group of them to go brutalize a bunch of people who might know where the flag smashers are. If they're just a UN aid group and not a law enforcement organization they wouldn't have been doing that. They're clearly also responsible for deportation and refugee crime. So far they seem like nothing but jack booted thugs to me so I've got no issue with them getting blown up.

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

et tu hootay




Vince MechMahon posted:

Evil Captain America leads a heavily armed group of them to go brutalize a bunch of people who might know where the flag smashers are. If they're just a UN aid group and not a law enforcement organization they wouldn't have been doing that. They're clearly also responsible for deportation and refugee crime. So far they seem like nothing but jack booted thugs to me so I've got no issue with them getting blown up.

You forget. The jack booted thugs are the good guys now. They are protecting the borders from climate warzone economic snap refugees.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



The GRC was definitely intentionally shown to be "jack booted thugs" at the start of that episode. That whole episode was constructed to make Karli's actions make sense, I think. We see Walker and the GRC act like troopers. We see Bucky and Sam compromise their values working with Zemo. We see Sharon question the entire hero thing. We see Karli's "mom" die with the chemist who made Karli a super soldier showing complete disregard for her. It all builds to Karli making her compromised action and killing the people she feels are responsible.

I still don't like it. I wish they had found a way to do that without her doing something that will be so difficult to walk back. But again, I think the morality and reality of all of this is still in question. People are making understandable comparisons to ICE or other real world parallels but we still haven't really seen the meat and potatoes of the GRC or how bad things are for refugees or what it is the Flag Smashers actually want. I keep going back to the fact that the Flag Smashers are the first and only people saying "it was better during the blip." Everyone else is saying the opposite. And I'm sure for Karli and co that is their reality. For them things were better and now are worse. But clearly for others its the opposite. And the Flag Smashers seem to have tunnel vision on things.

That definitely is fairly "both sides" and I get wwhy bugs people, especially when drawing the real world parallels. But I'm still kind of hoping we get more of the big picture revealed to us.

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch


Thought this was an interesting thread

https://twitter.com/MadeOfAwsm/status/1378535807577956353?s=19

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!




Good TED talk.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.



I assume even the showrunners knew most of that but wanted her to be all hard and mean to make sure you know she's a military veteran badass therapist.

Personally I immediately lost it when she ordered Sam into a session, I know everyone loved that eyelock scene but I was like "Sam, she's not your doctor, just say gently caress off."

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




I find the therapy pretty hard to swallow on the birdsuit man and cyborg arm man show

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





theironjef posted:

I assume even the showrunners knew most of that but wanted her to be all hard and mean to make sure you know she's a military veteran badass therapist.

Personally I immediately lost it when she ordered Sam into a session, I know everyone loved that eyelock scene but I was like "Sam, she's not your doctor, just say gently caress off."

Watching people who actually work as counselors and therapists respond to the show has certainly been interesting.

Hallucinogenic Toreador
Nov 21, 2000

Whoooooahh I'd be
Nothin' without you
Baaaaaa-by


It's worth bearing in mind that the therapist said she worked in the field with Walker, so there's a non-zero chance that she is this show's Agatha and is deliberately giving Bucky bad therapy.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008





Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:

It's worth bearing in mind that the therapist said she worked in the field with Walker, so there's a non-zero chance that she is this show's Agatha and is deliberately giving Bucky bad therapy.

When I heard Bucky had a therapist I was half expecting it to just be Moonstone, honestly.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!



Vince MechMahon posted:

When I heard Bucky had a therapist I was half expecting it to just be Moonstone, honestly.

Huh. That would have been clever.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade




I kind of like how the Blip is a major plot point in the MCU (how could it not be?) and that it's responsible for some of the drama going on.. it feels like the stand-in for COVID, its a huge horrible thing but people just deal with it as best they can.

In the comic universe, it's never really a plot point and more of a collective fever dream 'Oh hey I was dead for a while but nothing really happened'

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW948Va-l10

Barry Convex
Sep 1, 2005

Think of the good things, Pim! The good things!

Like Jesus, candy, and crackerjacks! Ice cream and cake and lots o'laffs!
Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Joe! Larry, Curly, and brother Moe!


Binary Badger posted:

I kind of like how the Blip is a major plot point in the MCU (how could it not be?) and that it's responsible for some of the drama going on.. it feels like the stand-in for COVID, its a huge horrible thing but people just deal with it as best they can.

interestingly, Feige has said in interviews that they weren't actually planning on directly addressing the Blip much (outside, it's implied, a handful of Phase 4 projects like FATWS and that Monica Rambeau flashback in WandaVision), but that COVID inspired them to make it more of a worldbuilding focus for the MCU going forward. we'll have to see if they actually follow through with that, of course

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011







I really like the Loki theme.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


So the MCU has two alternate copies of dead people wandering around right? Since Nebula killed herself anyways.

Sanschel
Aug 9, 2002



Rhyno posted:

So the MCU has two alternate copies of dead people wandering around right? Since Nebula killed herself anyways.

Loki and Gamora, right? Though I half expect something in the post credits of Black Widow that opens the door for her to return too.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Sanschel posted:

Loki and Gamora, right? Though I half expect something in the post credits of Black Widow that opens the door for her to return too.

Yeah and I'm curious if they'll do the comic plot and she wakes up in a cloned body or something. That's my guess for who Taskmaster is, a clone of Natasha with her skills but her personality and memories blanked

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch


Sanschel posted:

Loki and Gamora, right? Though I half expect something in the post credits of Black Widow that opens the door for her to return too.

For a second I thought a saw a scene of loki sitting next to nat on vormir near the end of that trailer, but that's probably not what's happening

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003

Get running
Start pumping your bunions, I'm coming
I'm the dumbest, who flamethrow your function to Funyons
Flame your crew quicker than Trump fucks his youngest
Now face the flame fuckers your fame and fate's done with





Binary Badger posted:

In the comic universe, it's never really a plot point and more of a collective fever dream 'Oh hey I was dead for a while but nothing really happened'
In the comic universe, it canonically lasted "mere moments" so there was no real time for anything lasting to happen. The captions of the resurrection even notes that few people remember anything happened at all. It's not really comparable to the MCU where people disappeared for five years then returned. (The art doesn't *exactly* back up the captioning, but it's still explicit in the text that not only did Nebula bring everyone back, she reset the universe to 24 hours prior when Thanos killed everyone.)

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


site posted:

For a second I thought a saw a scene of loki sitting next to nat on vormir near the end of that trailer, but that's probably not what's happening

I saw that and thought the same thing.

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch


Oh good I'm glad it wasn't just me

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Sanschel posted:

Loki and Gamora, right? Though I half expect something in the post credits of Black Widow that opens the door for her to return too.

I guess technically you could count Vision as three.

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST


Rhyno posted:

Yeah and I'm curious if they'll do the comic plot and she wakes up in a cloned body or something. That's my guess for who Taskmaster is, a clone of Natasha with her skills but her personality and memories blanked

Didn't WandaVision just do that gimmick with the latter person?

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



Rhyno posted:

I saw that and thought the same thing.

Wrong hairstyle for Endgame-era Black Widow; also, whoever Loki is sitting with has a sword in a scabbard.

mikeraskol
May 3, 2006

Oh yeah. I was killing you.


This looks very fun. I'm in.

LGD
Sep 25, 2004



Proteus Jones posted:

I finished it and I liked (mostly) how it ended. But there was easily a 1/3 to maybe even 1/2 of the entire run that could likely have been cut or condensed to make for a smoother overall story. There are definitely instances where Kirkman has no idea where the plot is going to go, and it shows.

Same, and I definitely stepped away for a bit (but then I was glad I came back - the ending felt too condensed to me on my original readthrough, but at the same time it was satisfying and nice to just have it cleanly delivered)

One nice thing about doing an animated adaptation is that (if it lasts long enough/they care to do so) they can actually do that trimming and condensing, and also have an opportunity to expand and adapt underexplored material (i.e. the end of the comic contains a bunch of individual panels that are fully capable of being expanded into entire story arcs, and if they retain the stupid universe reset when Kirkman wrote himself into a corner advanced knowledge that it'll be a thing gives them a bunch of freedom to go wildly off the rails, hopefully in directions that are less meanspirited than Kirkman got at points)

of course that probably won't happen because budget/time/Amazon/etc, but the potential is there (and we don't really know how closely they're adhering to the source material, there are already some significant divergences and its hard to get a read on whether they're immaterial or setting up significant alterations to the original story)

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

I just caught up to FatWS and I don't really... get what's happening at all? The plot feels so disjointed. Like, let's set aside for a second the Flag-Smashers wanting to make a world without nations, let's pretend it's totally bad like the show paints it as in episode 1.

So the Flag Smashers' stated goal in episode 2 is that the world was better during the Blip and that the GRC are prioritizing people who came back in the Blip over the people who lived during it but then they're like... stealing from the GRC supply depots to... give stuff to people in the GRC camps? And I guess there's a message about how the government is lovely and just sitting on supplies instead of doing their jobs and getting supplies to the people but at this point it seems less like they're fighting for people who lived through the Blip and more like they're just cutting through bureaucracy to efficiently distribute aid?

And then there's Walker kind of acting unhinged all of a sudden when he seemed like a perfectly decent person in the last episode? I mean sure we only spent part of one episode with the guy but at least right now it feels like the show is going "Oh yeah the audience is supposed to be suspicious of this guy and want Sam & Bucky to take the shield back, quick, remind them he's not the True Cap" and having him talk to Lemar about doing shady stuff "off-the-books" like our heroes didn't just bust a loving terrorist out of prison in the same episode.

All I'm saying is we're officially halfway through this show and I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to be pulling for other than for Sam to become Captain America because that's what happens in the comics and I think his costume is neat.

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jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!



TwoPair posted:

I just caught up to FatWS and I don't really... get what's happening at all? The plot feels so disjointed. Like, let's set aside for a second the Flag-Smashers wanting to make a world without nations, let's pretend it's totally bad like the show paints it as in episode 1.

So the Flag Smashers' stated goal in episode 2 is that the world was better during the Blip and that the GRC are prioritizing people who came back in the Blip over the people who lived during it but then they're like... stealing from the GRC supply depots to... give stuff to people in the GRC camps? And I guess there's a message about how the government is lovely and just sitting on supplies instead of doing their jobs and getting supplies to the people but at this point it seems less like they're fighting for people who lived through the Blip and more like they're just cutting through bureaucracy to efficiently distribute aid?

And then there's Walker kind of acting unhinged all of a sudden when he seemed like a perfectly decent person in the last episode? I mean sure we only spent part of one episode with the guy but at least right now it feels like the show is going "Oh yeah the audience is supposed to be suspicious of this guy and want Sam & Bucky to take the shield back, quick, remind them he's not the True Cap" and having him talk to Lemar about doing shady stuff "off-the-books" like our heroes didn't just bust a loving terrorist out of prison in the same episode.

All I'm saying is we're officially halfway through this show and I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to be pulling for other than for Sam to become Captain America because that's what happens in the comics and I think his costume is neat.

We don't know for sure yet, but my guess is that they're setting up that the Power Broker's serum isn't in fact perfect, and starts to eat at your mind and make you more aggressive and violent. Walker's showing that he's starting to crack under the strain of being Captain America, leading probably to him taking one of the last doses of the serum that Karli and company still have, and thus succumbing to the added aggression, which when combined with his already weakened mental state will lead to a big confrontation with Sam where Sam is a huge underdog vs power pumped Walker, wins anyway, and reclaims the shield and the mantle of Captain America.

The thing with the supplies is that the GRC are reserving them for people who came back from the Blip, while Karli and her crew are pointing out that there area lot of people who didn't get Blipped who are also suffering, such as Karli's mom who lost her medical coverage (or something like that) and then died of cancer in a non-GRC refugee camp.

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