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johntfs posted:Well, a new bad Royal is Wesley from Angel. I've noticed that explosions and hitmen are rarely as deadly on TV as they are in real life. Although now that I consider it, Sean Renard's hitbeings are pretty competent. When Sean Renard orders people dead, they do, in fact, tend to die. Aunt Marie died (mostly from cancer but full-on kung-fu fighting probably exacerbated it some), as did the Wesen fight-club guy, as did the bank-robbing Blutbad couple and now Sean's brother. So, figure three and half out of four isn't too bad. I can't wait for the rest of the Grimmy Gang to be slightly horrified when they learn of Eric's death, especially in light of the way they kept pushing Renard to "not let Eric get away with this." I hope Sean just kind of glares at them and says something like "I hate to break it to you people, but we're playing by Game of Thrones rules here. We win or we die. My brother just lost. Deal with it."
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Nov 3, 2013 18:39
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johntfs posted:as did the Wesen fight-club guy, Speaking of that, I still want to know what the gently caress was going with that whole situation - what the hell that priest was and what his actual connection to Renard is.
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Nov 4, 2013 03:29
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I have to say, though, that I'm glad Nick found out about the death so fast. Another season of a Big Secret being kept from one of the leads would be a bit wearying.
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Nov 4, 2013 03:46
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Tortolia posted:I have to say, though, that I'm glad Nick found out about the death so fast. Another season of a Big Secret being kept from one of the leads would be a bit wearying. I don't know how they expected to keep that from him. He's a cop, he's going to go back to work eventually and 'crazy drugged up zombie guy causes mayhem and kills a dude' is pretty much going to be cop water cooler talk for awhile. I also don't like how grief stricken he is over killing the guy. I mean, obviously he shouldn't just shrug it off like it ain't no thang but he's a cop, he's killed before. The guy pulled a knife on him. Add to that he was under the influence of a wessen drug where he literally had no idea what he was doing. He wasn't in command of his actions. I really hope they don't drag out the emo Grimm thing for too long. Also, I don't believe that Renards brother is dead. If TV and movies have taught me one thing, it's that a video of a car explosion means the person isn't dead. It's also a rather lackluster ending to the guy after everything he's done.
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Nov 4, 2013 04:41
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Yeah, the guy in the bar fight did pull a knife on Nick, but the knife guy did have a reasonable excuse - namely, a violent lunatic was attacking everyone there for no reason. You saw how hard it was for Nick's friends to put him down, even with a cop and two Wesen in full form (which apparently grants them some extra strength). Had Knife guy stabbed Nick to death, he would have had a reasonable self-defense claim. No, it wasn't Nick's fault for getting zombified, it wasn't his choice, but it remains that the bar fight guy, whatever else he might have done, he would still be alive if Nick hadn't been there.
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Nov 4, 2013 05:28
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I'm also expecting a bit of self-reflection from Nick in terms of how he approaches his Grimm duties. He basically went after Baron Samedi without any special preparations and it lead to the death of an innocent and presumably some massive therapy bills for that family. That may play into the guilt. We joked in the last thread about how Nick's weakness is his eyes but at some point he's going to have to take it all a bit more seriously.
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Nov 4, 2013 05:36
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Glad the show is back, but these first two episodes sucked. The writing, direction, pacing, and even the editing is really off. It feels like incomplete filler.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:39
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I really enjoy Grimm, I have also gotten into Sleepy Hollow. Just stopping by to say that James Frain will be a guest-star in multiple episodes of Sleepy Hollow. He may actually be dead, or it's more likely that will see him even less then we do now in Grimm, or just maybe not for a bit.
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Nov 5, 2013 11:44
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KilGrey posted:
Yeah i don't think he's dead either. And something tells me Renard didn't particularly think so either. If i was him i'd ask to see the body buried just to be sure! Though if the actor is now going to be appearing in Sleepy Hollow, who knows. Seemed a bit rushed just to have him in another show.
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Nov 5, 2013 13:11
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Ela posted:Yeah i don't think he's dead either. And something tells me Renard didn't particularly think so either. If i was him i'd ask to see the body buried just to be sure! Not sure if he is gonna have a big role in Sleepy Hollow though, so could probably still easily come back to Grimm.
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Nov 5, 2013 17:55
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hangedman1984 posted:Not sure if he is gonna have a big role in Sleepy Hollow though, so could probably still easily come back to Grimm. Given this show, I don't think there's any chance they could seriously expect us to assume he's permanently dead. Really now.
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Nov 6, 2013 19:43
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Merlinicus posted:Given this show, I don't think there's any chance they could seriously expect us to assume he's permanently dead. Really now. I'm gleefully anticipating the scene where he shows up at the end of a two-part episode fading to black and the words "Really now. You didn't think Eric actually died in that car bomb, did you?"
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Nov 6, 2013 23:30
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I was walking along the Portland Community College campus and it's all papered and sectioned off for filming an episode of this show! Enjoy people spotting weirdos with huge curly moustaches in the background of a future episode.
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Nov 7, 2013 03:26
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Dice Dingus posted:Enjoy people spotting weirdos with huge curly moustaches in the background of a future episode. So enjoy looking at stereotypical Portlandians.
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Nov 7, 2013 04:51
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I'm only on s1 right now, but I felt like I had to ask: did anyone else watch the dragon episode in season 1, and feel weirded out by this bit: After the day's work, the partner-cop says (and I am paraphrasing) "why don't you go home and HAVE SEX WITH YOUR WIFE!" and the grimm guy is all  , then he gets home and his wife is lying in bed asleep but he's all YEAAAAHHHHHH and he has this hosed up rape-smile on his face and takes his clothes off and snuggles up with his wife... NO IT'S THE DRAGON GIRL!That whole 'why don't you go home and have sex' with the grimm guy smiling as the partner says it, then the 'about to have sex' face, is just super, super weird.
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Nov 7, 2013 21:38
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New episode tonight. 3x03 – “A Dish Best Served Cold” Nick and Hank investigate a string of murders involving exploding bodies, only to discover a Wesen source.
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Nov 8, 2013 20:47
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Looks like someone needs an extra-strength antacid!
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Nov 9, 2013 03:17
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I am so happy they can finally make use of Juliette's veterinary expertise. Maybe they just had to find a consultant. Edit: So, uh, next week? Selkie? Rusalka? Have they done any Russian folklore yet? Bored fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Nov 9, 2013 |
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Nov 9, 2013 03:38
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Bored posted:I am so happy they can finally make use of Juliette's veterinary expertise. Maybe they just had to find a consultant. And a strange visit from a white-haired man with eyes like a cat...
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Nov 9, 2013 08:00
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Anyone else feel like the cinematogrpahy and lighting changed significantly after season 1? I've watched a few of the early episodes and they all have a different feel.
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Nov 9, 2013 08:10
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Whoa, hell thar, shirtless Nick! And looks like next week is going to be sirens. Flesh-eating mermaids ftw!
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Nov 9, 2013 16:50
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I like that they didn't just give him increased Grimm abilities, but added the super creepy bit where he is in a semi-dead state once in a while.
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Nov 9, 2013 17:38
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Yeah, I wonder how that's going to come into play......faking death later on, maybe?
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Nov 9, 2013 17:42
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Also I really liked that Renard pointed out that Nick has no problems killing Vesen, and that it was hypocritical.
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Nov 9, 2013 19:35
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Astrofig posted:Yeah, I wonder how that's going to come into play......faking death later on, maybe?
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Nov 9, 2013 19:35
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Oasx posted:Also I really liked that Renard pointed out that Nick has no problems killing Vesen, and that it was hypocritical. He does have problems with killing them though, the only wesen he's ever killed outright without offering them a chance to turn themselves in or finding an obscure way to arrest them have been reapers.
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Nov 9, 2013 20:38
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Oasx posted:Also I really liked that Renard pointed out that Nick has no problems killing Vesen, and that it was hypocritical. I swear they read our threads or something (not really). I'm pretty sure someone earlier in the thread said pretty much the same thing.
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Nov 9, 2013 21:50
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Zaggitz posted:He does have problems with killing them though, the only wesen he's ever killed outright without offering them a chance to turn themselves in or finding an obscure way to arrest them have been reapers. Yes. And lost zero sleep in the process and sent the heads back to the man who had sent them. Strikes me as a real softie that would have serious trouble getting over one murder that happened while he wasn't in control of his own body.
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Nov 9, 2013 22:35
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Sending the heads back was Monroe's idea, and there's also a big difference between killing someone who's sole purpose in life is to kill you for being what you are(granted its because Grimms typically do the same, but up until that point Nick had consciously acting within the boundaries of the law and the only people he had to shoot are people he would have had to shoot while acting as a cop) and killing an innocent by accident. Renards sudden accusation that Nick is straight up killing wesen left and right is completely baseless especially given that Renard has personally overseen most of Nick's operations as a Grimm from the shadows.
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Nov 9, 2013 22:42
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Zaggitz posted:Renards sudden accusation that Nick is straight up killing wesen left and right is completely baseless especially given that Renard has personally overseen most of Nick's operations as a Grimm from the shadows. I didn't understand it as Renard accusing him of anything, but more that Renard as a half-Vesen finds it problematic that Nick had no real problems killed sentient people in self defence when they are Vesen, but gets really upset if they are humans. But i think it may just be part of a general fantasy trend, I remember there was a similar storyline on Buffy, where Faith accidentally killed a human, i thought that was just as silly.
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Nov 9, 2013 23:05
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Oasx posted:Also I really liked that Renard pointed out that Nick has no problems killing Vesen, and that it was hypocritical. Best part of the episode.
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Nov 9, 2013 23:10
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I liked that bit. As far as I understood it, Renard assumed that Nick was fine with committing (sometimes gruesome) murders in the line of duty and was annoyed--if not mildly offended--by Nick's sudden attack of species-specific conscience. Heck, most of the posts in this very thread has essentially the same reaction. Renard shared our response, only he obviously did so in character.
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Nov 9, 2013 23:29
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I dunno what you guys are on about with this whole oh wesen its okay but not normals thing. Nick has always, in basically any situation tried to prevent any loss of life unless he is pushed the normal boundaries a cop would have to shoot someone. Outside of a handful exceptions all of his kills were justified. And he wasnt wracked up cause he killed a human, he was wracked up cause he killed an innocent. In fact, let's do a count: Season 1: -Pilot: Reaper attacking his aunt, at this point Nick doesn't know about being a Grimm, he just shot a dude about to murder his aunt. Later in the episode he shoots a Blutbad child murderer that attacked him and Hank and tried to flee the scene of the crime. -Ep 2: Nick doesn't kill anyone, but mama bear wesen falls into a spike pit trying to attack him. Monroe also rips some dude's arm off who was sent to kill Nick's aunt. -Ep 3: Nick shoots bee lady when she tries to kill Adalind using a swarm of bees. (Wants to let her kill Adalind, but doesn't because he's a cop.) -Ep 4: Creepy Goat guy is arrested. -Ep 5: Nick stops the pied piper rat kid from killing his friends, arrests him and gets him help. -Ep 6: Nick Arrests the Pig Cop who killed hap. -Ep 7: Nick saves the feral Blutbad and takes her home with Monroe's help, also arrest the man who tried to molest her a child. -Ep 8: Monroe kills the Ogre that hosed up Nick and is about to kill Hank. -Ep 9: Nick arrests the Mouse Serial Killer. -Ep 10: Nick arrests spider lady. -Ep 11: Nick, Hank and the entire SWAT team have to kill the organ trafficking vulture people as they fight back and try to kill them. -Ep 12: Nick is forced into gladiatorial combat, but gets saved before anything bad happens. Renard kills the Lion wesen at the end for disobeying his orders. -Ep 13: Hank shoots the Jackal wesen when he attacks Nick and Renard, Nick lets the other wesen get away after he takes the coins. -Ep 14: Nick injures the dragon as he tries to save Juliette, the dragon's daughter then kills him via explosion. -Ep 15: Nick arrests the two Gecko crackheads with Monroe and Rosalie's help -Ep 16: Nick arrests the crazy abusive cat person and saves the golden canary lady. I believe he also arrests the corrupt cop who had been helping cat guy. -Ep 17: Nick takes away Adalind's powers by accident. -Ep 18: Fuchsbau exboyfriend of Rosalie kill the assassin sent after him, Nick is about to arrest him for it but let's him go for Rosalie's(and the resistance's) sake. -Ep 19: Nick intervenes in Troll man's extortion of eisbibers, Troll uses his connections to send reapers after him and the eisbibers, Nick gets in a fight with the reapers and kills them both, beheading on of them with his own scythe in self defense, Monroe shows up and suggests beheading the other and sending the heads back to send a message. -Ep 20: The bat people kill each other after Nick and Monroe find a way to subdue them. -Ep 21: Hank shoots the Big Foot wesen who went crazy after taking that anti-woge serum and kidnapped an innocent. -Ep 22: Nick's mom knocks out the assassin who came after Nick to get the coins. All of those kills except for maybe those two reapers are completely within the means of the law and logical sense justified. I'm sure Nick had to make decisions like that even before he could see wesen, Hank sure did. Season 2: -Ep 1: A whole bunch of people get hosed up by the Tiger wesen, but Nick doesn't kill anyone. -Ep 2: Nick's Mom kills the Tiger wesen and Adalind's mother. -Ep 3: Hank and Nick arrest the Coyote Rape family. Hank finds out about wesen. -Ep 4: A bunch of wesen get infected by the yellow plague and go rabid and start attacking people, Nick and Hank have to gun down a rat man in self defense, and Wu has to gun down a lady wesen later in the ep. -Ep 5: The Sheep people all gang up on and kill the Blutbad priest after his deception is revealed, they all confess. Nick kills the weird flesh horse wesen in self defense when he is ambushed at the trailer. -Ep 6: Hank shoots the Cobra wesen who killed Angelina and is about to kill Nick. -Ep 7: Nick manages to subdue the insane badger girl and get her help from another lion wesen who helps aggresive kids sort out their urges. -Ep 8: Nick manages to arrest the halfturlelion wesen before he commits suicide.(probably my second least favorite episode of the whole show) -Ep 9: Nick Hank and blue jaguar wesen save a bunch of kids from a g-g-g-GHOST!!! -Ep 10: Probably the most important episode in me making my point, this is the one where the lamprey wesen pretends to be a grimm and starts killing any wesen criminal he encounters, eventually shifting to innocents like Bud. He thinks Nick is a disgrace for not killing all wesen he encounters because they are all monsters and should be wiped from the earth. When he finally woges and reveals himself he demands to be killed for what he is, Nick refuses and arrests him. -Ep 11: Hank kills the cannibal wendigo wesen just as he is about to kill Nick, as nick is surrounded by the corpses and unused organs of his other victims. -Ep 12: Hank gets beaten to near death by the verat, this is the FIRST TIME Nick actually GOES AFTER someone for Grimm based reasons. He and Monroe beat the four Verat to near death, and when one is about to confess to Nick about who hired them, another quickly kills them. -Ep 13: Nick and Renard have a big dumb comic book fight before resolving their issues and getting to work on a cure. -Ep 14: This is another episode where everyone is convinced the only way Nick can stop the two Blutbad who woge in public is to grimm it up and murder them. Instead he arrests them, and the wesen high council have them assassinated(unbeknownst to Nick, of course) -Ep 15: Probably the most grotesque episode, this is the one where they knock out Fly wesen and rip out his eye to cure Nicks blindness, however the one who kills the wesen is the sister of one of his victims who he had also blinded in the episode. -Ep 16: Goblin wesen commits suicide(this is the loving worst episode. its the MMORPG one.) -Ep 17: No one dies in this episode, it's the one where the scooby gang teams up to trick the goat lawyer who cheats using his pheromones into losing them. -Ep 18: They kill a demon, you can't tell me Nick isn't justified in killing a loving fire demon. -Ep 19: Nick kills a hawk wesen who is trying to capture the frog wesen for human trafficking/skinning purposes in self defense. -Ep 20: Muse tries to get Nick to kill people, is foiled, Renard later threatens her and tell her to get the gently caress out of Portland. -Ep 21-22: The Voodoo-Zombie two parter that eventually led us to this discussion. Nick doesn't actually kill anyone, tho several of the zombies do hosed themselves up pretty bad, one of them jumps out of a building. Later Nick gets zombied and the rest is history. All of this is to say that what has seperated Nick from the other Grimms of this universe from the very start is that he DOESN't discriminate Wesen over humans, and that he gives them the same courtesy he would any other human with regards to the law. Renard is the one being hypocritical in this episode because he has been monitoring Nick since the pilot, and still somehow jumps to accusations that would befit a regular Grimm, and not Nick. edit: added Stabbey's corrections. also fixed the sheeple. Zaggitz fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Nov 10, 2013 |
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Nov 10, 2013 00:33
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I'm not saying he's been leaving a body count, I'm just saying that one death while he was zombified when the guy came at him with a knife, while regrettable, doesn't seem like such a big deal when other people have died due to any number of other wesen related things in near proximity/because of him. Although I do agree with the point that the above comments saying that he has been killing wesen probably isn't completely true. ~edit~ spelled wesen laughably wrong, whoops.
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Nov 10, 2013 00:42
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Zaggitz posted:I dunno what you guys are on about with this whole oh wesen its okay but not normals thing. Nick has always, in basically any situation tried to prevent any loss of life unless he is pushed the normal boundaries a cop would have to shoot someone. Outside of a handful exceptions all of his kills were justified. And he wasnt wracked up cause he killed a human, he was wracked up cause he killed an innocent. Great post, it saves me the trouble of doing it myself. Two minor corrections: the dragon's daughter survived the explosion that killed her father, and the person who killed the Fly wesen was the sister of a blinding victim, not blind herself.
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Nov 10, 2013 00:46
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Zaggitz posted:Excellent re-cap. Consider me convinced.
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Nov 10, 2013 01:43
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Zaggitz posted:I dunno what you guys are on about with this whole oh wesen its okay but not normals thing. Nick has always, in basically any situation tried to prevent any loss of life unless he is pushed the normal boundaries a cop would have to shoot someone. Outside of a handful exceptions all of his kills were justified. And he wasnt wracked up cause he killed a human, he was wracked up cause he killed an innocent. Season Two, Episode 5 should probably be Sheep people (Sheeple?), not Bunny people. As for the rest, I agree that Nick hasn't killed any Wesen without significant provocation and that those he has killed are morally (if not legally) justifiable. Still, as others have noted, Nick hasn't exactly been tortured by killing sentient life-forms who basically another version of people. As I recall the guy Nick killed both started the aggression (by pushing Zombie Nick) and then later tried to stab Nick with a knife. I have to wonder that if the dude had been a Troll or Blutbad or Coyotle, would Nick even consider this to be an issue? I'm thinking probably not.
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Nov 10, 2013 07:35
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I would argue that he's more than proven the fact that he views both races equally. He's gone out of his way several times to save other wesen, even the ones he didn't know personally like Monroe and Rosalie.(don't worry I'm not gonna post another huge list) The argument I think Nick is making for himself is that if he had been in control, the fight would not have escalated, and the dude wouldn't even have pulled the knife which suddenly made his death justified. And even if that had happened, like any other situation he'd try to resolve it with an arrest until he had no other choice.
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Nov 10, 2013 07:52
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Well, sure, but you can still see how the Captain might think and say what he did. Say you have a cop that works in a high-crime inner city environment who has had to kill several black people in self-defense or the defense of others. He does this and just sort accepts it to be business as usual. Then he kills a white guy by legitimate mistake and gets all broken up by it. Yes, it was a regrettable situation but you can understand how the stark difference between the cop's emotional reactions might raise some questions. I don't think Nick is a racist (speciesist?), at least not deliberately. I do wonder if part of the heritage of being a Grimm is a kind of limited sociopathy when it comes to hurting or killing Wesen, that his ability to feel guilt or regret when doing so has been deliberately, biologically muted somehow.
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Nov 10, 2013 16:44
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I don't think there is an inherent sociopathy that comes with being a Grimm. Your real world comparison to racism works perfectly to explain Grimm attitudes without resorting to  . Say that cop in the hypothetical example came from a long line of Klansmen, you might expect him to be more broken up over the legitimate mistake shooting only because the victim was white. But if the cop's father had died when he was young and he was raised by people who weren't cross-burning bigots, you'd have a setup much like Nick's on the show. His mother's "death" broke the chain of cultural transmission for the idea that wesen are more animal than human.I doubt that deep down Renard really thinks that Nick is being speciesist (or whatever). As others previously noted, Renard has been able to see almost all of Nick's Grimm career unfold along with us. The writers just needed someone to verbalize the "do you really have a problem with killing this guy because he is human" idea, and Renard is in a position to do that. Monroe is too nice, although by the end of this episode he does echo the question. It was part of the central conflict that Nick had to decide if he would just BBQ the bauerschwein (sp?) or let them go if he could not find legal means to deal with them. Nick's real paranoia (and the root of his turmoil over the barfight guy) is probably a fear of becoming a literal stone-cold killer. I forgave the writers for giving that pissy speech to Renard for two reasons. One, it makes sense that his character is stressing balls and lashing out at Nick on the slightest provocation. Two, the writers also gave Renard that cheese and corn line at the end of the episode. "And this little piggy went to jail."
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Nov 10, 2013 23:34
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