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Mr. Jive posted:Oh hello new thread OtherworldlyInvader posted:Yeah this is ~my sci-fi dream~, but one of my friends poked a good hole in that dream: easy prosthetics and makeup don't make convincing aliens anymore. Lizard men, funny hair men, and bone-head men might have worked in the 90's but it doesn't now. They would have to seriously re-work the aliens to be way less human and that would cost some serious money and pose a lot of challenges.
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Oct 23, 2013 05:31
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Conquistador posted:I like the Enterprise finale So do I. Terra Prime is a great loving episode.
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Oct 23, 2013 05:32
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1st AD posted:This used to be on their website I think, does anyone know if it's available for streaming anywhere? I think the film is under creative commons license so you can legally download it wherever.
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Oct 23, 2013 06:18
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Slamhound posted:This is completely off-base since Babylon 5 is noted for it's non-forehead aliens. It went a long way towards establishing non-humanoid, other-atmosphere civilizations. For real. Hell, Babylon 5 (the station itself) had an entire sector dedicated to alternate atmosphere quarters for aliens who couldn't breath in an earth like atmosphere. Each room was programmable to different gas contents to suit the occupants, if I recall. And they even had those gas mask dispensers at the end of every hallway/airlock. This wasn't just some half mentioned non fleshed out idea, this was an area of the station visited very often in episodes, and important to many plot lines. The effort to include reasonable, cool, worthwhile realism helps the world-building and distinguished B5 from other shows. It's one of the big reasons I love the show so much. You had Kosh / Vorlons, who were energy/light beings in an extremely weird exosuit , the Gaim, weird bug-like faced dudes who needed their odd gasmasks on all the time, the gross as gently caress carrion-eater like Pak'Ma'Ra, the shadows themselves who were basically giant cloaking spiders , and more I'm sure I'm forgetting about. Let's also never forget Londo and his 6 tentacle dongs. Babylon 5 also had the awesome fact that they took a fairly prominent and developed (character wise in the show) alien race and literally killed them all off. The entire race. That was pretty awesome. "Hey art department, thanks a bunch for making dozens of make up and latex get-ups for that one race, feel free to go set them on fire now cause they are worthless!" Also, one of my favorite things, Newtonian physics actually applied to the space battles to an extent is just  Talk poo poo about the early CGI work all you want, but I'll take a single shot of a Starfury turning a 180 while keeping it's momentum and firing on an enemy behind it over any attempts at displaying a "space battle" in any Trek I've ever seen. And as poo poo as the CGI looked, it got much better each season the show went on. So you were getting as good quality as their time, budget, and tech would allow. Those CGI dudes definitely tried their best and you could tell they were getting better as time went on.This is sad and touching. It's nice that this issue finally gets the closure it should have had a long time ago. No more wondering and rumors about why O'Hare left. Good on them all. Thanks for the link, I hadn't heard about this new development. I'm going to try and watch the panel as well when I get a chance. 1st AD posted:This used to be on their website I think, does anyone know if it's available for streaming anywhere? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4bka9Y2gJ0 Just to help you in the future, I literally just copy and pasted the name of the movie into google, picked the "videos" filter tab, and it was the first result  And to people implying you can't remake Babylon 5 without Andreas Katsulas, well, that's just dumb. I mean, yeah he IS G'Kar and he and Londo were the backbone of great acting on the show, but I'm sure a good casting director can find someone to fill his shoes well enough. At the least it's a dumb reason that the show won't get remade. If they want to remake it, not a single TV dude in that circle is gonna say "drat, we really can't do this without Andreas. Pack it in, guys". Damo fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 06:26
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Slamhound posted:The Creepy Bar being raised is not a challenge. Yeah they did go trough a lot of trouble to spell that out with the breathing masks and the alien areas of the station, but they're still clearly guys in makeup because of the realities of live action TV production. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I think this would undermine the show because the aliens in Babylon 5 (or most space opera, really) aren't meant to be truly alien. We shouldn't be goggling at how weird G'Kar and Mollari are, we should be seeing them as characters of made-up nationalities that have decades of bad blood between each other, and we should be getting very much into them as people. You make a good point there, it would be hard to tell the story if the alien characters were some sort of crazy xenomorph-like horror. Ultimately B5's story is about conflict between groups of people, and draws a million parallels with real history. 1st AD posted:The problem is, TV has gotten so good now that I really can't imagine sitting through shows like these anymore because I've become a lot less tolerant of bad production. Even a show like The Walking Dead will still at least have good acting, cinematography, and production design and can be enjoyed on a visceral level despite a floundering and stupid plot. I think B5 was ahead of its time, while its easy to get distracted by the low cost and outdated production values the underlying narrative feels a lot closer to modern dramas than most of it's contemporaries. Maybe its just personal preference but I have a much higher tolerance for bad production values than a bad story. I could never get into The Walking Dead because it just made me angry at the wasted potential. Current shows like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones manage to deliver both incredible story-telling and production values, and I'd watch them first, but there's not a whole lot of Sci-Fi on TV right now and if you've got the itch for the genre B5 is a classic. I'm also not coming at this with any rose-tinted lenses for the show, as I first watched it in like 2005 and the production looked about as dated then as it does now.
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Oct 23, 2013 06:39
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I've always started a Babylon 5 run by subjecting myself to "The Gathering" pilot. Making it through that makes the first season of B5 itself seem like the best poo poo ever in comparison, in every category. Acting, writing, effects, lighting, character designs, cinematography, music, gently caress -- you name it.
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Oct 23, 2013 06:42
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:So do I. Terra Prime is a great loving episode. But how did Paxton manage to live for another one hundred years, become a Star Fleet admiral and manage to de-thaw an Augment and almost start a war with the Klingons?
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Oct 23, 2013 06:43
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Robocop can do whatever the gently caress he wants.
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Oct 23, 2013 06:50
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LEGO Genetics posted:But how did Paxton manage to live for another one hundred years, become a Star Fleet admiral and manage to de-thaw an Augment and almost start a war with the Klingons? Same reason Tim Russ was able to fight Die Hard Picard, become Tuvok, and still find time to not find poo poo in the desert.
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Oct 23, 2013 06:52
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Sash! posted:Same reason Tim Russ was able to fight Die Hard Picard, become Tuvok, and still find time to not find poo poo in the desert. And also try to steal Dax out of Jadzia's body. http://www.startrek.com/watch_episode/qT67_STz_UbI TOS The Conscience of the King - The music is amazing like 7 minutes in, its like a kind of jazzy version of the TOS theme almost. The music throughout the entire episode owns so far anyway.
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Oct 23, 2013 06:58
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Damo posted:Also, one of my favorite things, Newtonian physics actually applied to the space battles to an extent is just I'm going to link this again. Short Babylon 5 CGI clip from the people who also worked on the new Battlestar Galactica.  I really love the Earth ship designs in Babylon 5, and the Starfury is the best of the bunch. I vaguely remember thinking it looked kind of ugly at first, but the sheer practicality grew on me to the point where its probably my favorite sci-fi space ship design. #2 is probably the Leonov from 2010, which the Omega Destroyers are based on. The Narn ships look great too even if they blow up real good. While I don't like the Centauri or Minbari designs as much (except for those boss Centarui battlecruisers), their non-newtonian designs kind of help drive home how much more technologically advanced they are. OtherworldlyInvader fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 07:04
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Why aren't you watching this on Netflix where you don't have to deal with random commercials? And it's in HD instead of whatever sub-SD resolution CBS uses for their online poo poo. Oh and the film is all cleaned up and they did new CGI mattes and...well, there's really no advantage to watching the original versions unless you think
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Oct 23, 2013 07:06
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1st AD posted:Why aren't you watching this on Netflix where you don't have to deal with random commercials? And it's in HD instead of whatever sub-SD resolution CBS uses for their online poo poo. Oh and the film is all cleaned up and they did new CGI mattes and...well, there's really no advantage to watching the original versions unless you think No commercials @ Star Trek dot com for me, and I ditched netflix after they got rid of SG and KOTH
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Oct 23, 2013 07:09
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I think another huge strike against Babylon 5 being remade today would be that at heart B5 actually has a pretty sweet and sappy heart. G'Kar, for all his rage against the Centauri and his utter arrogance before the Shadows tipped the scales, turns out to be a big romantic lunkhead. Mollari, for all his cynicism and decadence, is consumed by his naive nostalgia for a Centauri renaissance that probably wasn't quite as much as it was cracked up to be. John Sheridan. Marcus. And today's market would revile that kind of production, regardless of how "real" the loving "aliens" are, because at the end of the day Babylon 5 is very much not the kind of cynical, even bitter narrative that some of the most popular shows today spin out.
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Oct 23, 2013 07:12
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Sash! posted:Same reason Tim Russ was able to fight Die Hard Picard, become Tuvok, and still find time to not find poo poo in the desert. And why Ben Sisko's mom was a Prophet and his dad was involved in a false flag operation that framed Kirk.
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Oct 23, 2013 07:31
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I'm extremely skeptical about a new series, especially if Bob Orci's the guy spearheading it. One of the biggest problems I've had with his/JJ's treatment of Star Trek is that it's all about BOOTSTRAPS. The entire message about a crew who have to lean on each other, rely on sage advice, and grow as people with the help of friends- all of this is washed clean from the last two Trek movies, which are all about Kirk and what an assertive Captain of Everything that stems from Roddenberry's vision was delightfully communist- not in the Marxist/Leninist sense, but in the sense that they deal with the usefulness of the Commons, the things we all share that ought not be owned by anyone. And I'd like to see that back in my Star Trek, some solid collectivist writing that's not afraid to be collectivist. Really, what I'm saying is that I would love to see them bring on Slavoj Žižek.
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Oct 23, 2013 07:42
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The Dark One posted:And why Ben Sisko's mom was a Prophet and his dad was involved in a false flag operation that framed Kirk. Admiral Cartwright was placed in witness protection after he turned on the other traitors. He moved to New Orleans, changed his name, and opened a restaurant.
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Oct 23, 2013 07:42
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The Dark One posted:And why Ben Sisko's mom was a Prophet and his dad was involved in a false flag operation that framed Kirk. Medical technology has certainly come a long way in 350 years
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Oct 23, 2013 07:49
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Christmas Present posted:Everything that stems from Roddenberry's vision was delightfully communist- not in the Marxist/Leninist sense, but in the sense that they deal with the usefulness of the Commons, the things we all share that ought not be owned by anyone. And I'd like to see that back in my Star Trek, some solid collectivist writing that's not afraid to be collectivist. Christ are you kidding me, in TOS Kirk does the following: -Starts a guerilla war to stop the Klingons from annexing the Organians (who literally don't give a poo poo because they're basically like Q) -Sabotages a colony where everybody is perfectly happy and experiences no want and even Spock experiences love because of some vague capitalist bullshit that people need to toil and suffer in order for life to be worth living -Intervenes in the affairs of like 2 dozen worlds despite the Prime Directive because paternalism is okay if it's coming from a white male authority figure Roddenberry may have grown to accept a kind of collectivist stance late in his life, but that kind of thinking isn't reflected in TOS at all. Kirk in TOS is basically American Exceptionalism and Imperialism IN SPAAAAAAACE.
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Oct 23, 2013 07:52
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1st AD posted:The problem is, TV has gotten so good now that I really can't imagine sitting through shows like these anymore because I've become a lot less tolerant of bad production. Even a show like The Walking Dead will still at least have good acting, cinematography, and production design and can be enjoyed on a visceral level despite a floundering and stupid plot. Is this just a young person thing? I wouldn't say TV is better now, it's just reflective of a different society.
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Oct 23, 2013 08:00
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1st AD posted:Roddenberry may have grown to accept a kind of collectivist stance late in his life, but that kind of thinking isn't reflected in TOS at all. Kirk in TOS is basically American Exceptionalism and Imperialism IN SPAAAAAAACE. He also had a Russian on the bridge during the Cold War and black woman during segregation so he had some progressive leanings.
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Oct 23, 2013 08:02
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Slamhound posted:Having Picard join the poker game was inspired. It was also one of the few meaningful developments they could depict, though. DS9's ending was better and was about more things than Picard's character arc. UP AND ADAM fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 08:05
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Hyperriker where the gently caress is TAS in the OP 8/10. Otherwise good job everyone keep it up.
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Oct 23, 2013 08:07
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TOOT BOOT posted:Is this just a young person thing? I wouldn't say TV is better now, it's just reflective of a different society. I'm 31, maybe that's considered young but regardless I don't think that changes my perception of quality. There are modern shows that are done on a really barebones budget and they look like poo poo, maybe shinier poo poo than something like B5, but poo poo nonetheless. TV is definitely a lot better today because a lot more care is taken to make it look like cinema. Music receives a lot more emphasis, editing is tighter, and lighting and color grading are used to create distinct moods from shot to shot. Even a bunch of single camera sitcoms are produced with great lighting and production design.
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Oct 23, 2013 08:11
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kelvron posted:Admiral Cartwright was placed in witness protection after he turned on the other traitors. He moved to New Orleans, changed his name, and opened a restaurant. And stopped aging for one-hundred years.
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Oct 23, 2013 08:23
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Brick Card posted:And stopped aging for one-hundred years. Black don't crack.
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Oct 23, 2013 08:29
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1st AD posted:Roddenberry may have grown to accept a kind of collectivist stance late in his life, but that kind of thinking isn't reflected in TOS at all. Kirk in TOS is basically American Exceptionalism and Imperialism IN SPAAAAAAACE. Not to mention the episode where the literally bust out the US Constitution. 
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Oct 23, 2013 08:35
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The Dark One posted:Not to mention the episode where the literally bust out the US Constitution. I really dig TOS, but I have never, ever understood this episode, even a little bit. "Spock's Brain" makes more sense by an order of magnitude.
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Oct 23, 2013 08:40
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1st AD posted:Christ are you kidding me, in TOS Kirk does the following: Hrm, yeah; I guess I never considered the depths of TOS, I got into Trek sometime around TNG/Undiscovered Country, and have only really seen the Greatest Hits of TOS. ST6 was the first movie I saw as a kid that I found simultaneously boring and fascinating. Like, sitting through it was hard as a young boy who wanted to see more fights with Klingons, but I thought about it for quite a long time after leaving the theater.
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Oct 23, 2013 08:44
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It's an OK episode up until the HOO-RAH AMERICUH scene, the insane captain is a decent villain. That ending just completely kills anything the rest of the episode had going for it. Also Gary 7 is the worst Star Trek episode and a show based on it would've been awful. Just saying.
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Oct 23, 2013 08:44
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Space Hamlet posted:Requesting that wacky foreign disco take on the TOS theme Not sure if this one got posted but it's by the guy who did the full blown Star Wars disco remix. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ZJUAAkdys Unsurprisingly it owns (and I think it was made before TNG?)
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Oct 23, 2013 09:10
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Thom12255 posted:Does anyone else really enjoy Vic Fontaine's singing on DS9? His screentime gets a lot of criticism but his voice is so smooth. Loved Vic Fontaine and loved the fact that they made an episode solely dedicated to saving Vic.
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Oct 23, 2013 09:25
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The talk about Babylon 5 space battles was enough to finally get me to give it a try. One of my favorite things about BSG were the battles in the pilot, with Adama looking at the 3d radar thing and barking commands about pitch and yaw and poo poo. So much better than in Star Trek where they pilot while staring at what amounts to little more than an HD backup cam from a luxury sedan, and look like they're waiting for just the right moment before yelling "Fire!" It's a shame that never made it past the BSG pilot though.
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Oct 23, 2013 09:53
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counterfeitsaint posted:The talk about Babylon 5 space battles was enough to finally get me to give it a try. One of my favorite things about BSG were the battles in the pilot, with Adama looking at the 3d radar thing and barking commands about pitch and yaw and poo poo. So much better than in Star Trek where they pilot while staring at what amounts to little more than an HD backup cam from a luxury sedan, and look like they're waiting for just the right moment before yelling "Fire!" They tried to do it a few times though they never really did do that many big fights with the Battlestars themselves so the examples are pretty sparse no matter what. The most obvious example I can think of fairly was nonsensical, in that episode where Lee commands the Pegasus for the first time he orders it to "roll over" so the Basestars can't hit their damaged topside but then still head straight for the nearest Basestar. I guess no one can move up or down but still flip over. I think the only time they tried to do it again was in the series finale though since they were sitting still that was mostly concerning guns, fighters, and fighting the Cylons in the hallways. Still, like you said, that kind of stuff is quite interesting to hear if you can sell it. I love DS9 but it produced the wackiest "Evasive Manoeuvres" command in the entire series I think. Apparently "Evasive Manoeuvre Pattern Delta" is "Do a loop."
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Oct 23, 2013 10:14
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Pobama posted:Requesting that picture I took of my old hammer-smashed Voyager toy. I seem to have lost my own photo some how. It clearly belongs here, some one with talent and photoshop should put it into a space background too. Here ya go, champ:  Going through my images folder, I found that a huge percentage of them were star trek related.
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Oct 23, 2013 10:29
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Amazon has 3 Star Trek books as part of their daily deal. The series is Star Trek:Destiny by David Mack.
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Oct 23, 2013 10:44
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TOOT BOOT posted:He also had a Russian on the bridge during the Cold War and black woman during segregation so he had some progressive leanings. Don't confuse liberalism with socialism. Both have progressive hearts, but liberalism is the ideology of Adam Smith, and is premised on capitalism raising everyones living standards, whereas socialism argues that the contradictions in capitalism make this ambition impossible. In the historical scheme of things America is a liberal nation, even if the europeans do progresivism infinitely better. The problem is, the US has had a history of trying to impose that liberalism on the world from the cockpit of a stealth bomber. Star trek isn't socialist, its the liberal fantasy of the post-scarcity welfare state, in space. But thats not really a criticism, despite my commie lean, as I'm not sure socialism vs capitalism even makes sense in a universe of matter replicators and infinite resources.
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Oct 23, 2013 10:48
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duck monster posted:Don't confuse liberalism with socialism. I think this is one of those cases where the word "liberalism" means something completely different to the layman in America vs. the rest of the world. American "liberalism" is everyone else's center, and American "conservatism" is everyone else's far-right. Back to Trek though, last night I started to read this on a total lark, largely because it has an exclamation point in the title, and because it's only like 130 pages long so why not:  Trip report so far at about a third of the way through: why does everyone refer to Bones as "Doc" and make mention of Starfleet being "the Space Service."
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Oct 23, 2013 11:10
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Party Plane Jones posted:Amazon has 3 Star Trek books as part of their daily deal. The series is Star Trek:Destiny by David Mack. It's a good series, I've gotten through the whole thing in a few days on my Kindle. It's crazy how fast you read through stuff on a Kindle, if I had it in paperback it would have taken weeks. I'm trying to get through the Typhoon Pact books now but Uni work gets in the way a lot.
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Oct 23, 2013 11:11
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duck monster posted:Don't confuse liberalism with socialism. Both have progressive hearts, but liberalism is the ideology of Adam Smith, and is premised on capitalism raising everyones living standards, whereas socialism argues that the contradictions in capitalism make this ambition impossible. The Mission Log podcast guys interviewed David Gerrold, and the way he described it was that Gene Roddenberry was big on grand gestures, but weak with the follow-through. As time went on, he got more idealistic, but less grounded. He bought into the concept of the the Great Bird of the Galaxy.  So by the time TNG comes around, the concept of the pursuit of money has vanished, nobody eats meat, and people have evolved beyond grief and inter-personal conflict. Except for the times where those ideas are casually tossed aside.
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Oct 23, 2013 11:28
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