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gently caress the ROW posted:Can anyone explain this dumb game in a western way because I tried to box in some guy, and then he got out, and I don't have enough stones. Also this is mainly for a MMO minigame so don't burden me with words, please Basically, you need to see that poo poo before you start it. What you're in is called a "capturing race" - and if you can remove your opponents liberties faster than he can remove yours, you'll win, and if you can't, you shouldn't try.
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Nov 6, 2013 03:19
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gently caress the ROW posted:Can anyone explain this dumb game in a western way because I tried to box in some guy, and then he got out, and I don't have enough stones. Also this is mainly for a MMO minigame so don't burden me with words, please Were you playing a person or doing one of those problems the teachers give you? If it's the teacher, I'm pretty sure all the solutions are posted online somewhere. If it's a person, then there's no TL:DR that can help you, maybe try the bejeweled minigame instead? I don't remember it being necessary to play against other humans to level up, maybe it's faster, in which case you should just find someone who will trade wins with you or something. Flying-PCP fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 03:51
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OM '94 I will play a game with you. I haven't played in a few years so I'm prob pretty rusty
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Nov 6, 2013 04:18
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gently caress the ROW posted:Can anyone explain this dumb game in a western way because I tried to box in some guy, and then he got out, and I don't have enough stones. Also this is mainly for a MMO minigame so don't burden me with words, please Have a look at The Interactive Way to Go. You'll learn the basic rules (through interactive examples) in about five minutes, then after that it teaches you common fighting concepts like ladders and snapbacks. It sounds like it might be very to the point for what you're looking for.
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Nov 6, 2013 06:35
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gently caress the ROW posted:Can anyone explain this dumb game in a western way because I tried to box in some guy, and then he got out, and I don't have enough stones. Also this is mainly for a MMO minigame so don't burden me with words, please If you're playing a go minigame, just forget about boxing anyone in and just play in the emptiest area of the board to claim space. Don't bother trying to capture anything. the goal is to stake out the biggest area possible. Most go AIs in a format like that are so awful, anyone should be able to beat them this way after a few tries.
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Nov 6, 2013 09:21
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gently caress the ROW posted:Can anyone explain this dumb game in a western way because I tried to box in some guy, and then he got out, and I don't have enough stones. Also this is mainly for a MMO minigame so don't burden me with words, please The goal is to place all your stones without loving up. There are thousands of ways to gently caress up. Every several dozen ways you learn to not gently caress up, your rank increases by 1.
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Nov 6, 2013 09:58
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Anyone have any tips for bridging the gap between The Interactive Way to Go and actually playing games? When I'm presented with a board situation and told "you can win the ladder here, do it" or "capture the black stones in 3 moves" I can do it, but in games against other people you don't have the little prompt and I just can't seem to recognise these situations at all without it.
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Nov 6, 2013 10:26
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I wish I knew of a better way. Just play games, and lose horribly. Start with some 9x9, then proceed to 13x13 and finally 19x19. Or just turn off your brain, go full 19x19 and play 10 games a day. Things'll start making sense after about a week. Mikhail Gorbachev posted:OM '94 I will play a game with you. I haven't played in a few years so I'm prob pretty rusty woot, I'm on KGS as oiseaux (add me as a friend/fan or come into SA room), or you can challenge me on OGS (oiseaux) and do a correspondence game which might be better
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Nov 6, 2013 11:48
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I did the Interactive Way of Go tutorial and been playing for a couple of days now on 9X9 igowin. I sort of leveled out at 16/15 kyu and feel the board is too small to improve because there is not enough room for strategic play. I decided to give PvP a go, look for the worst opponent I could find and proceeded to be absolutely trounced much more pathetically than I already expected. Is there any 13X13 / 19X19 game I can play versus the computer? Its not that I feel embarrassed at losing so badly, it's that I don't want to force another person to slog through half an hour playing someone that has no idea what they are doing. That must suck balls for them. I hated when that happened to me in other games, someone not very good is OK but no one should be forced to play against someone that seemingly can't make two right moves in a row.  I can't seem to find any PvC boards larger than 9X9. Is it really that or inconveniencing other people? I clearly am not ready for that but I seemingly an not getting any better playing 9X9.
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Nov 6, 2013 12:00
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Get on KGS, get a rank (you can get a rank by playing ranked bot matches or starting ranked games in Beginner's Room), and play ranked games. Trust me, your opponent is happy to win a ranked game even if it means you're flopping about.
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Nov 6, 2013 12:33
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Jack the Lad posted:Anyone have any tips for bridging the gap between The Interactive Way to Go and actually playing games? Either play more games, start with 9x9 size and work your way up to 13x13, 19x19 (as oiseaux said and posted way before my slow rear end got done writing this post); or play more go problems like the ones you went through on The Interactive Way to Go. Generally, problems in a real game aren't as easy or straightforward as they are in guides simply because you're not getting the hints. A teaching game with hints and some undo's can also help you bridge over. In case you missed them, here are two collections I've seen mentioned and/or have used so far myself: http://tsumego.tasuki.org/ Quality problems by a go legend. Problem is, the answers can't be included because they fall under copyright, so you'll be forced to find solutions yourself. But that's both an advantage as well as disadvantage; you can't be sure unless you think stuff through really well. http://www.goproblems.com/ Problems vary in quality. They're all crowd sourced and some are complete rubbish, but just as a sort of brute force, one-after-the-other kind of thing, the site performs decently. Real edit: Also, goproblems.com is ridiculously unreliable in terms of being online. Guess it can't handle traffic very well. MeLKoR posted:I can't seem to find any PvC boards larger than 9X9. Is it really that or inconveniencing other people? I clearly am not ready for that but I seemingly an not getting any better playing 9X9. There are quite some go computers that play 19x19, and some are even pretty good, in the single digit kyu ranges. A bunch of them are on the KGS servers, and there's stuff like GnuGo, embedded in for example Panda-glGo. But, seriously, just keep playing people instead. Go software is hardly any fun at all in comparison and although you'll get to learn some stuff, you're more likely to play the software rather than go, meaning, you'll soon find out what responses the computer generally comes up with, and then you're just gaming the code. It's like playing the same guy over and over again but he isn't getting any better or coming up with cool new stuff. And you're highly unlikely to actually bother anyone. Playing against a player who doesn't know how to respond well is actually good practice once in a while because suddenly you can no longer count on your opponent making certain moves. As the stronger player, you'll then have to exploit the weaknesses that otherwise wouldn't have existed, and that can be pretty challenging and educating for someone a lot stronger. Fake edit: Christ I type slow and a lot. Fleve fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 12:35
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Playing 19x19 against a computer will give you even more of those bad habits that lead to you getting your rear end kicked once you play against a human. If you really want to, there is gnugo, which is basically the only non terrible free go-engine. You can also play against bots on kgs. There are instances of many commercial go engines in the Computer Go room. e: slowest in this thread.
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Nov 6, 2013 12:37
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Thanks a lot guys. Another reason why I'd like a to play a different program than igowin is that you can't go back on a move. Often I make a play, turns out it's a really lovely move but can't explore the results of alternative moves. But if you guys really feel I won't be a nuisance to other people maybe I'll give it another go soon.  As an aside from the little I have figured out this seems like a really deep and awesome game once you get the hang of it.
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Nov 6, 2013 12:54
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MeLKoR, I would be happy to play a teaching game with you (or any other new-ish players) sometime. I'm hdouble on KGS or send me a PM here on SA.
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Nov 6, 2013 15:24
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I think one of the big things I want to work on now is knowing when the game is over. If I began to play with human players I'd feel like a dunce if I kept playing far past the time I should have passed. How does one know that there are simply no more moves to make? Is there a rule of thumb players tend to use? Or is it something you just need to study the board carefully to know.
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Nov 6, 2013 15:27
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Playing Go 2-3 times per week at uni now with a friend who's better than me. I'm trying to take less time each turn but it's hard. The hardest thing is making good use of the stones he gifts me so they don't die early on. 9x9 especially is very hard early on to me because the first few moves are so big.
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Nov 6, 2013 15:42
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Deofuta posted:I think one of the big things I want to work on now is knowing when the game is over. If I began to play with human players I'd feel like a dunce if I kept playing far past the time I should have passed. How does one know that there are simply no more moves to make? Is there a rule of thumb players tend to use? Or is it something you just need to study the board carefully to know. Remember that under the Japanese scoring system (which is the most common in the west, and the default on KGS), you don't score points for having stones on the board, only for territory. So, placing stones unnecessarily inside your own territory is actively costing you points. You could try running through a kind of loose checklist: a) are all of your groups live? (do they have two eyes?) b) is your territory safe from invasion? (are there any spaces near the corners or edges that are big/open enough that your opponent could invade and grab a base inside your territory?) c) is there anyplace your opponent is vulnerable to attack? (don't waste your opponent's time and insult their intelligence by trying every little possible obvious attack in the endgame, but if you see something that might work, usually it's a good idea to try it, as long as it's a move that demands a response -- even if you lose the attacking stones, your opponent will usually have to play one stone to respond to every stone you play (reducing their own territory in the process) so there's usually no net loss. DON'T randomly play attacks your opponent can ignore, because that DOES cost you points). These aren't in a strict a > b > c hierarchy, it's more a relative thing. Sometimes it might be worth it to let you opponent grab a few points in the corner or kill one of your smaller groups, if you can accomplish something bigger in return. Basically, near the endgame, just go over all your groups and your opponent's groups and ask yourself "is this group settled? Is there anything else that either player can do with it?" h_double fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 15:51
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h_double posted:
I disagree with this. You should try everything you can think of; people fall for all sorts of poo poo all the time. You can pull out at least one in five losing games out of sheer bloodymindedness. Anyone who doesn't believe me should go play on Tygem and see it in action 
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Nov 7, 2013 08:26
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Was this app shared here? It's tsumego for Android and it's pretty great. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.goro.tsumego Lets you play move combinations before giving an answer. The translation is awful though.
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Nov 7, 2013 10:52
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Was this app shared here? It's tsumego for Android and it's pretty great. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.goro.tsumego quote:Putting reading skills in life and death in order to go is strong but of course , Does it wait 3 months to tell you if you got it right, or is this some deep philosophical thing?
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Nov 7, 2013 10:55
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it looks like he is recommending some kind of srs. But is that an srs program for tsumego or should you just do this in your head? I admit I have been thinking about getting some tsumego in my Anki, but I am still not sure if this a good idea at all.
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Nov 7, 2013 11:13
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Under 15 posted:I disagree with this. You should try everything you can think of; people fall for all sorts of poo poo all the time. You can pull out at least one in five losing games out of sheer bloodymindedness. I don't like playing moves I know won't work just in case my opponent isn't paying attention. Seems like playing in bad faith to me. If I can't tell if something works, I'll try it, though.
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Nov 7, 2013 17:13
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Haomo posted:----J----[{@ I consider myself to be a true disciple of the Japanese art Go game. My primary KGS play account, ANIMEKING, currently has a 3rd dan ranking, making my "Hand Talk" moves quite powerful. I know a great deal of joseki (Japanese for Hand Talk combo attacks at the beginning of the board game) and my knowledge of the Hikaru No Go Japanese Anime is encyclopedic.
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Nov 7, 2013 17:14
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Last night Aeroplane champed it up by getting some tsumego going in the channel. Since we've got so many new folks, it seems like it might be nice to get that going as a regularly planned thing. Let me know if there's interest and if so, what day/time would work best.
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Nov 7, 2013 17:45
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I'm always up for tsumego, even if I get angry when I can't solve 15k level problems...
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Nov 7, 2013 17:52
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Go problems are sweet! You guys should try this one. Black to play.
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Nov 7, 2013 18:25
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Q5, the rest is obvious.
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Nov 7, 2013 19:30
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Jack the Lad posted:You're not kidding. I just spent some time with it. How it works is that if you solve a problem on the first try, you won't see it again for 3 months. If you get it wrong, you'll see it again in a few minutes, and when you get it right it will repeat the problem in an hour or so.
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Nov 7, 2013 21:23
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I want to play go with you goons. I'm doing lasik tomorrow so my weekend is kinda shot. I may get on this KGS and hit you up for a teachin game or three.
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Nov 8, 2013 03:34
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Nope sorry there is no easy way to go from "learning the core moves and concepts" to "being able to actually spot em in game and utilize them". There's an element of pattern recognition at play here that is almost like muscle memory. The only way to gain it is to lose and analyze a bunch of games until you start seeing the Spooky Geometries automagically. Once you get the bare minimum of that down, your path upward becomes more obvious. It becomes about tunining your play by not making any dumb mistakes, knowing the classic confrontations (not so much so that you can play Go problems on a live board, but for the mind-games aspect you gain by knowing the really common moves), making sure you're getting the best ROI on each move, and so forth. But until you train your brain to near-instantly spot the patterns that are on the board and the possibilities they show, no amount of tuning is going to help you against someone who can see even a few moves ahead.
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Nov 8, 2013 04:01
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Nathilus posted:Nope sorry there is no easy way to go from "learning the core moves and concepts" to "being able to actually spot em in game and utilize them". There's an element of pattern recognition at play here that is almost like muscle memory. The only way to gain it is to lose and analyze a bunch of games until you start seeing the Spooky Geometries automagically. Once you get the bare minimum of that down, your path upward becomes more obvious. It becomes about tunining your play by not making any dumb mistakes, knowing the classic confrontations (not so much so that you can play Go problems on a live board, but for the mind-games aspect you gain by knowing the really common moves), making sure you're getting the best ROI on each move, and so forth. Welp. That sucks but at least I'm not just being mentally deficient.
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Nov 8, 2013 10:51
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Don't let it put you off. Go is an extremely natural game once you make the "beginner's breakthrough". Many times when someone is reviewing my game, they'll ask me "what is the next best move" and I'll suggest something terrible. When they reveal the better move, it always makes total sense, you get a kind of burst of enlightenment as if the knowledge was always inside you, you just weren't engaging with the board. Go is great for these micro-rewards, like working out a really clever tesuji, or killing a group your opponent thought couldn't be killed, etc. Not that I recommend always trying to kill groups, of course. Attack them and gain profit. Killing is a bonus.
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Nov 8, 2013 11:37
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Naw, the best next moves are the ones that are fantastically ugly. Guzumi* is my favorite go concept, after ijime,** of course. * is the term for "a fighting bad shape." Sometimes the pretty or efficient looking move helps your opponent just a little too much, so you gotta break a few eggs and play some ugly looking poo poo. This often takes the form of a brazen empty triangle in the middle of a fight ** literally means "bullying"
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Nov 8, 2013 21:42
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go gently caress your slef
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Nov 8, 2013 21:57
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How long does the average 19x19 Go game last? A friend and I who have never played before are starting out on a 9x9 board, and I'm curious how much longer a 19x19 game would take.
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Nov 8, 2013 22:28
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Muscle Tracer posted:How long does the average 19x19 Go game last? A friend and I who have never played before are starting out on a 9x9 board, and I'm curious how much longer a 19x19 game would take. The default settings are 10 minutes + 20 seconds per move overtime for a fast game; and 25 minutes + 30 seconds per move overtime as normal. Real experts play longer. And sometimes total beginners think they just have to think longer to be better ( they are wrong ). Blitz games are almost a different game to normal go. But they can still be fun.
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Nov 8, 2013 22:36
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5 second blitz is some of the most fun I've ever had; if only because you're constantly on edge the entire time.
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Nov 9, 2013 00:04
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ThePineapple posted:Go problems are sweet! You guys should try this one. An unorthodox one: http://xkcd.com/1287/
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Nov 9, 2013 05:40
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Kheldragar posted:5 second blitz is some of the most fun I've ever had; if only because you're constantly on edge the entire time. A lot of high-level blitz games are something like no main time, 60 or 100 5-second byoyomi; something where you can think a minute about a move if you want to, but only a few times per game.
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Nov 11, 2013 02:38
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The best way to learn is to hop on KGS and have goons review your games. When I first started I went from not knowing what an atari was to ~7 kyu in a few months. I'm still making mistakes within my first 10 moves. I've never seen a game that had a higher skill discrepancy between players than this game.
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Nov 12, 2013 23:37
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