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Seat Safety Switch posted:IronBlock's Datsun: Stroked Too Much, Spurted Everywhere  
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Dec 2, 2015 16:51
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Tried telling my boss that I haven't lost 3 hours of productivity, I've gained 3 hours of Datsun knowledge. Awesome thread, so sorry to hear about the seize.
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Dec 2, 2015 20:09
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Seat Safety Switch posted:IronBlock's Datsun: Stroked Too Much, Spurted Everywhere 
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Dec 3, 2015 00:09
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Seat Safety Switch posted:IronBlock's Datsun: Stroked Too Much, Spurted Everywhere  I'm somewhat shocked that this thread still retains its original title, given that the "inter-continental" portion of this adventure is presumably over. In fact, check out the view from my new bedroom window:  drat right, son. It's boomerang time! In all seriousness, my parents have a pretty big ranch and the room was vacant. This is also the first time I've been living the same place as this car since I got it. After some soul-searching, it was clear to me that this is how I should be spending my time. scuz posted:Tried telling my boss that I haven't lost 3 hours of productivity, I've gained 3 hours of Datsun knowledge. Awesome thread, so sorry to hear about the seize. Thanks, but again, you kind of have to look at the silver lining - I work on cars because I like working on cars, and I think I even said earlier in this thread that I wish the engine had been more balls-out-ier, since I built it before I really knew what I was going to be doing. It's now going to be in the top 5 Nissan R16s worldwide, and maybe the number one in America.  Autopsy One of my favorite ever stories about working on cars involves a friend of a friend. He was tightening the head bolts on a BMW engine he had just finished rebuilding, and during the last part of the sequence, the last bolt snapped the head. Guy doesn't scream or throw a fit or anything - he just starts taking the head off again. Now, I'm nothing like that, but I try and keep that in mind whenever I'm in a similar situation. It's never the machine's fault. Of course, literally anything I ever want to do in the garage starts with cleaning off the bench    And one of the nice things about having finished most of the fab work on this car is that it's become very modular - easy to take related chunks out together.     Trying to turn the crank over still produced no results, even with some MMO down the cylinders. Whatever I had done, I reasoned that it was pretty bad.  Working inside the car became harder, since the "real" interior was show-quality instead of sheet metal.  It also became obvious that this bullshit dust from the unpaved driveway was finding its way into every nook and cranny of the car (transmission tailshaft to driveshaft pictured below).  This is also - unfortunately - one of those cars where you can't pull the engine without bringing the transmission along with it. It's not particularly heavy, but it requires significant changes in angle while being lifted. For that reason, I now prefer a ratchet strap over a chain, since it's easier to slide the nylon than to get a chain to jump links on the hook.  It was also pretty obvious that a lot of the paintwork and coatings just hadn't held up. I loving hate this header, but the only other option is me learning to weld (which I think I will be doing for SuperStroker).     And just like that, stroker motor 1.0 was on the stand again. (The "witness" stand?  )  The guts were laid out in order of removal.   So far, so good...    The combustion chambers were pretty foul, and showed evidence of my way-conservative, way-rich fueling.  And then... I got to the block.  Some light scuffing in the cylinders, demonstrating without a doubt that I was out of oil for realzies.  What secrets would the pan unveil...?   Okay...  Okay...  Okay...  Ah.          Pretty devastating stuff! I was pretty bummed about this, since I had no next course of action planned. I was going to have to go to Solvang without a car AGAIN. Lucky for me, when I was there, I caught up with some people who pointed me in the direction of my Australian mentor and subsequently in the direction of the magical SuperStroker. Next Steps So there I was, back to square one with the engine.  The GM Blue paint was disgusting, the bores were scuffed, and it needed to go back to the machine shop. So it did. And I started to assemble the parts I would need, previously teased in this thread. And I started to make plans... which are now coming to fruition.
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Jan 13, 2016 03:51
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Oh man I am so stoked for the next update! I LOVE these sorts of update.
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Jan 13, 2016 05:18
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ironblock posted:This is also - unfortunately - one of those cars where you can't pull the engine without bringing the transmission along with it. It's not particularly heavy, but it requires significant changes in angle while being lifted. For that reason, I now prefer a ratchet strap over a chain, since it's easier to slide the nylon than to get a chain to jump links on the hook. Get you a load leveler, dude. Visions of that motor starting to slide down the strap until one end is straight up and WHACK the tailshaft of the trans goes through the windshield...
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Jan 13, 2016 05:20
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Man, that oil filter saga is fully brutal. Makes me feel better about always popping the few extra bucks here and there when buying basic poo poo for my cars - there's always a nagging voice that tells me I'm paying for a brand or packaging, but the other nagging voice says it's gonna save me pain on stupid stuff like you encountered. What an awful way to wreck an engine  Can't wait to see the new engine build. This is a great thread/car.
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Jan 13, 2016 05:33
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Raluek posted:Get you a load leveler, dude. Visions of that motor starting to slide down the strap until one end is straight up and WHACK the tailshaft of the trans goes through the windshield... I thought about that, but it's still tremendously hard to relocate the load. I'll take a video next time I have one of these engines on a hoist - it's really pretty stable. The R16 also tends not to have the world's best place to attach chains, and I don't want to mar the paint on a brand new piece. The Royal Nonesuch posted:Man, that oil filter saga is fully brutal. Makes me feel better about always popping the few extra bucks here and there when buying basic poo poo for my cars - there's always a nagging voice that tells me I'm paying for a brand or packaging, but the other nagging voice says it's gonna save me pain on stupid stuff like you encountered. What an awful way to wreck an engine Literally every cheap part I've ever bought has been terrible, and the time I waste or the things I break because it wasn't quite good enough is never worth the short term cost savings - gasket set for my 4AGZE, this oil filter, aftermarket ignition coil, etc etc etc. It's gotten to the point where I'll only use OEM, or brands with which I've had a 100% success record (FelPro, Centric, WIX, et al). Commodore_64 posted:Oh man I am so stoked for the next update! I LOVE these sorts of update. The Royal Nonesuch posted:Can't wait to see the new engine build. This is a great thread/car. I know I don't always respond to the praise and enthusiasm in this thread, but I want to say that it does mean a lot. I have a generally favorable outlook on the car and the situation overall, but I'll admit that I've been frustrated by my inability to finish it for one reason or another. I'm a few years past the date where I expected to be driving it daily. Comments like these keep me going. 
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Jan 13, 2016 21:15
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I learned a long time ago about buy it once, buy it right. Cheap stuff costs more than expensive stuff. I still have the occasional cheap moment, but I no longer try to nickel and dime everything. Glad to see an update on this thread, and my heart sank when I read your last update on the oil filters. As a little fun fact, the first gen Honda s2000's can apparently vibrate off their oem oil filters, located directly above the exhaust headers, and it's exacerbated by high rpm operation (yay 9k redline) spilling hot oil on a hot exhaust 
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Jan 13, 2016 21:38
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So am I seeing bearing failure due to oil starvation or did something get stuck in there? I don't have as much experience with engine internals so while I can tell what the parts are I'm confused if the pictures identify a part that failed first and caused the dominoes to start falling. Either way, good luck with the new engine build, I can't wait to watch and learn!
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Jan 14, 2016 06:23
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Mat_Drinks posted:So am I seeing bearing failure due to oil starvation or did something get stuck in there? I don't have as much experience with engine internals so while I can tell what the parts are I'm confused if the pictures identify a part that failed first and caused the dominoes to start falling. Looks like oil starvation led to extreme friction and therefore temps at the bearings, and the crankshaft and conrods are now blue. Surprisingly, the bearings don't seem to have spun.
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Jan 14, 2016 08:22
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Raluek posted:Get you a load leveler, dude. Visions of that motor starting to slide down the strap until one end is straight up and WHACK the tailshaft of the trans goes through the windshield... Agreed. Either that, or sliding down and trapping a part of a soft, squishy human between a very heavy drivetrain and a fairly unyielding chassis. This is how people lose fingers/hands/break bones. The HF one is worth buying, it's kinda chintzy and annoying to operate but holds up 850lbs or so of jeep drivetrain no problem. Sucks about the motor... think you can hone the block, get some new pistons, turn the crank, and rebearing it or need to actually rebore?
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Jan 14, 2016 18:23
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Raluek posted:Looks like oil starvation led to extreme friction and therefore temps at the bearings, and the crankshaft and conrods are now blue. Surprisingly, the bearings don't seem to have spun. Bingo. I think they would have spun if I were at higher load or engine speed or something. All of this happened below about 2000rpm, but the simple version is that it all got really hot and there was no oil, so the bearings fried. Once the engine cooled down, it was seized because the nice smooth bearings were now horribly misshapen and glued to the crank pins.
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Jan 14, 2016 20:44
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kastein posted:Sucks about the motor... think you can hone the block, get some new pistons, turn the crank, and rebearing it or need to actually rebore? So, the short answer is yes, the long answer is that I'm not going to. This engine is going to get turned into what I've been calling the SuperStroker. To recap, the SuperStroker is the brainchild of a genius Australian Datsun racer. They have domestically available H20 motors (the 2.0L version of the 1.6L R16 motor) in their cars. We only got them here as LPG forklift motors. Incidentally, the H20 crank used in a car or forklift and the Nismo "stroker" crank I have are one and the same. What that means is that what I thought was a rare and special piece still is - but only in America. In Australia, they have plenty of these, and no qualms about slicing and dicing them to see what can be done. The recipe, as far as I'm allowed to share, is as follows: * Forged H-beam rods for something that's definitely not a Datsun * Cast OEM pistons from something that's definitely not a Datsun * Enormous modern valves from something that's definitely not a Datsun * Iron Y44 cylinder head from an H20 forklift * Crank offset ground to north of 89mm * Block bored out to north of 89mm * Total displacement of ~2.3L * HP reported as being over 180 at the wheels To compare, a stock R16 is rated at 96hp. A U20 is rated at 135 with SUs or 150 with Solexes. One of AussieMan's cranks:  Rods:  Y44 ports:   Compare to R16 head I had ported:  The thing to notice about the ports is not only that they're physically larger in stock trim, but that the bend is more gradual on the intake port and the air has a more direct path to the valve head. The R16 head has a weird curlicue thing going on. Basically, when life hands you lemons, pay the machine shop nine million dollars and create the largest possible engine.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:10
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ironblock posted:Basically, when life hands you lemons, pay the machine shop nine million dollars and create the largest possible engine. That's the attitude!
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Jan 14, 2016 21:27
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As per usual, it's been a while. Let's jump right in. How much is that doggie in the window? So, what do you do when you've got a car that could and should be driving, if not for the smoking hole in its engine bay? Well, if you're me, you call up all your Datsun vendor pals and ask them if they've got any running motors they want to sell.    This ugly sonofabitch cost me the princely sum of $500. It came with a 4 speed transmission that my friend couldn't be bothered to detach, and missing every important bracket and accessory that has actual value. Lucky for me, all of the nice bits I had went to all that trouble to obtain were perfectly compatible, and I'd just had occasion to lay them all out on my workbench.   I started by pulling the four speed off. There's nothing really wrong with these things, as a transmission, but the ratios are low and bad, and not having an overdrive sucks. I have a pile of them outside the garage, and I can't even be hosed to find space for them indoors at this point.   Then it was just a simple matter of "Insert Rod A into Slot B".  There were many little early warning signs about this engine. All of the manifold studs were bent or smushed, and therefore had to be removed.   Little clues suggested a rebuild, but not recently. The SU carbs ended up coming from another engine, and almost weren't included until I re-emphasized the running part of "running motor". I spent some time refitting my accessories and sensors.    At this point, I was trying hard to focus on getting the car running and driving again, and do my best to ignore how filthy and unkempt the engine bay was becoming. I discovered that I was missing a lot of gaskets, but the New Improved IronBlock stocks gasket material and doesn't take no for an answer.    I replaced what studs I could.  Pro-est of all possible tips: loving check all this poo poo before you put an engine in the car, because otherwise you'll discover that the one thing you needed maximal leverage or whatever for is completely inaccessible, like that conspicuously large stud second from the right. Oil filter problems were dealt with properly and in accordance with The New Way Forward.   I regasketed and scrubbed the used SUs, which were predictably frozen.  Then I installed them.  They tuned up okay, and left me with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yJw6LTFgNw I then turned my attention to more sinister events, such as the wiring in my dashboard. You might remember that it was sort of quirky and fun to me originally when my gauges misbehaved or were just plain dead. It turns out that grounding all your gauges through the metal dashboard only works if: A. The dashboard has not been powder coated B. It's secured to the body of the car with conductive bolts C. All of the gauge brackets are clean I scored... 0/3. So I made these.   These dopey little jumper cables go between the bracket wing nuts on each gauge, connecting them in series, and ultimately to a verified good ground source. With these installed, all my gauge lights started working, and it became possible to troubleshoot the actual readings. Who knew, right? Then, since I was about to drive the car on the road, instead of in a parking lot, I decided I better have some of the legal checkboxes done. I Jerry-rigged my reverse light back into semi-working order.     Many things in Datsun-land involve taking 5-6 differently broken things and creating 1 not-so-broken thing from the guts. This was no exception, and it gave me the last remaining piece of street legal frippery. I had working signals, lights, and horns, which meant that it was time for The second test drive I set off down the road, consciously eyeballing every one of my gauges for foul play. Things sounded good, and it's moments like this one where I'm always glad that the car has no linked, powered systems. If the engine dies, the brakes and steering work the same way. Things seemed pretty good. Granted, the car was dog-rear end slow, the way that most cars powered by a used R16 (factory rated at 96bhp!) are. You really have to put your foot down to not be killed to death by traffic sneaking up behind you. As I puttered down the road, I reflected that all the previous ills and maladies seemed to have gone. My gauges worked, my tires weren't rubbing, the exhaust was sealed nicely, nothing seemed to be leaking or smoking or steaming... And then I downshifted for a nice sweeper, and the engine went "Hkk, buhhhhhhhh". And I went "fuuuuuuuuck".  At this point in my automotive career, I'm starting to learn from my mistakes, so as soon as the engine made a sound I didn't like, I immediately made a beeline for the side of the road. As I came to a stop, I put the clutch in. The motor died. And then I sang it a sweet lullaby and soothed its wounded spirit and we transcended this mortal plane and did sweet drifts in the aether between this world and the next. Haha, no, actually this happened:  gently caress me, right? Even though I waited to have the car back at home base before doing any science, it was completely obvious to me from the noise it had made that something in the engine had a deep and profound fuckage. I tried to start it, just to see, and it ran long enough for me to not want to run it anymore. Prior experience with an L28ET taught me to recognize the sound of a severely retarded cam, and there's no fixing that with the engine in the car. So engine number two came back out.
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Mar 16, 2016 09:11
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Hello, police? I would like to report an abusive relationship. Yes, I'll hold
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Mar 16, 2016 13:21
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Holy poo poo did you piss off Yutaka Katayama and he's trying to get back at you from the afterlife?
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Mar 16, 2016 13:52
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I can no longer tell if the events are in real time or close to real time or just epic blue balls like the fine color of a cast iron Datsun block. Gently resting on them.
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Mar 16, 2016 14:14
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Maybe it's finally time for an ls1 swap
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Mar 16, 2016 14:25
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This thread is such a roller coaster. 
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Mar 16, 2016 14:30
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Nitrox posted:Maybe it's finally time for an ls1 swap too easy. it'll find something else to fill its bloodlust.
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Mar 16, 2016 14:34
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The best part is that the trend continues from here. 
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Mar 16, 2016 20:50
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Holy poo poo, at this point a rotary would be more reliable. Find me a S5 keg and I'll build you a kick rear end ~160WHP engine.
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Mar 17, 2016 02:49
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Put a Renesis in it.
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Mar 17, 2016 03:01
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Rover v8 it.
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Mar 17, 2016 03:19
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Blown Rotax.
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Mar 17, 2016 03:47
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the spyder posted:Holy poo poo, at this point a rotary would be more reliable. Find me a S5 keg and I'll build you a kick rear end ~160WHP engine. Well, the first motor was in a league of its own. I think you'll find that the second motor's issue has more to do with me saying, "I'm going to rely on a heavily used motor with an unknown history and hope it has no problems." I don't think it matters what kind of motor it is, if it rolled out of the factory 45+ years ago, got rebuilt by a man in a shed, and eventually ended up on somebody's shelf, there's probably a reason why it's not... like... still in a car. Hey, speaking of which, you'll never guess what happens with engine number three! 
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Mar 17, 2016 04:29
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ironblock posted:Hey, speaking of which, you'll never guess what happens with engine number three! My guess is you buy it, install it as quickly as you can, drive for a few miles, and ruin it.
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Mar 17, 2016 14:29
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I'm starting to see a pattern here and there is a common denominator in all of this, I hope you can get past it. I'm talking about you OP. I hope you can get past all these setbacks! While I'm currently enjoying the constant ball punches I apparently give myself coming into this thread, I wish you great success in sorting this out!
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Mar 17, 2016 15:00
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Just put a rb26 in it.
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Mar 17, 2016 20:23
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I have a reliable datsun to offer you, should you miss driving yours too much. My sister is looking to sell her '80 L20B mantrans RWD 720 pickup right now, for high 3 figure to very low 4 figure prices. It's currently on the opposite coast from you, but with a new battery (been sitting a while because...) a new slave cylinder (external, driveway job) and some gas it should make the drive no problem. It can be used to pick up yet more engines for your other datsuns Really sucks that you keep blowing them up... I thought the used engine was the third one though? Ridiculous high-power engine first, then another you built and dropped in and nuked with a badly chosen oil filter, then the dump-it-in junkpile stock engine? Or am I getting confused?
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Mar 17, 2016 20:36
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kastein posted:I have a reliable datsun to offer you, should you miss driving yours too much. My sister is looking to sell her '80 L20B mantrans RWD 720 pickup right now, for high 3 figure to very low 4 figure prices. It's currently on the opposite coast from you, but with a new battery (been sitting a while because...) a new slave cylinder (external, driveway job) and some gas it should make the drive no problem. I think he nuked the good/nice engine with the bad filter. There was some timeline jumping at one point in this thread, so I see how that could be mistaken.
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Mar 17, 2016 21:15
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Bleh, just put an NA SR20 in it and call it a day.
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Mar 17, 2016 22:06
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Wrar posted:Bleh, just put an NA SR20 in it and call it a day. SR20s are poo poo, and I don't think I'd have better luck with a used one of those, either.  If I break the Super Stroker, then you can laugh at me. Until then... Hold on to your butts, butt-holders. kastein posted:I have a reliable datsun to offer you, should you miss driving yours too much. Oh, I have plenty more Datsuns - and it has to be something pretty special for me to want to brave CA emissions (anything made after '75). Truthfully, I love little trucks, and I love the 720, but keeping a 1980s era L20B going in CA is just murder. I assume it has (or had?) the nightmare electro-carb? ssjonizuka posted:I think he nuked the good/nice engine with the bad filter. Yeah, I've in media res'd the poo poo out of this, not exactly on purpose. The main continuity of this story is about 6 months behind as of my last post, and here's the complete engine history: Engine 0  3-main R16. Came with the car, supposedly ran, but part of my deal with the guy I bought it from was that I would trade him back the motor/transmission in exchange for the parts to build a stroker motor. I haven't really counted this or gotten into any details, since it hardly mattered. Engine 1  High powered stroker motor, built from the parts I got in trade plus a NOS crankshaft. This is the one that used motorcycle carbs, and this is the one that shredded its main bearings when the oil filter exited stage "up". Engine 2   $500 junk pile bought from a vendor friend, "guy who sold it to me said it ran great". Maybe a little confusing because I swapped my nice valve cover on. Next post contains this engine's autopsy and it's a real nut-twister. Engine 3  A stupid but funny decision which cost me nothing but time. Featured next post. Engine 4  The engine that's in the car right now, today, in real time. Not gonna spoil details just yet. Engine 2, v2 (Engine 5?) The guts of Engine 2 went back to the machine shops, and I had the stroker crankshaft offset ground. The head is brand new, and every part of the equation is like the previous motor, but moreso. I've been working on making the carb linkage less stupid while I wait for this. Not done yet, but getting close. And what the hell, just to really prove that there are no brakes on this train, here's a sneak peak of the Super Stroker:  The journey is definitely the worthier part. Next Roadster might get a supercharged 13B or similar. "Next Roadster" might also actually be code for the free Roadster frame (no body) I got. But that's another story.
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Mar 17, 2016 22:37
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ironblock posted:The journey is definitely the worthier part. Next Roadster might get a supercharged 13B or similar. "Next Roadster" might also actually be code for the free Roadster frame (no body) I got. But that's another story.  favorite build thread atm
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Mar 17, 2016 23:06
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Your intestinal fortitude is truly astonishing
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Mar 17, 2016 23:10
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Wow you're crazier than me and have more datsuns than I have jeeps, I think. My hat is off to you. AFAIK the L20B has only an electronic choke and maybe one other wire going to it. It didn't have the stereotypical rats nest of nonsense going to it that I expect from an e-carb, though there was a ratsnest of vacuum hoses that is mostly intact and even functioning as designed after Fart Pipe and I went through it all with 20 feet of new vacuum hose and put everything back together and made it run nicely. I'm guessing motor 2 died of a mouse nest sucked against the oil pickup due to that nice rusty/dusty distributor? mounting port I see..
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Mar 17, 2016 23:13
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ironblock posted:... it's a real nut-twister. You mean it hasn't been already?
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Mar 18, 2016 03:24
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im not worthy
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Mar 18, 2016 03:29
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