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v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Digital Foundry posted a good video on just how good the Switch port is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd0la5lQosM

They also speak of how pleasantly surprised they are at how good the game is having checked it out purely for seeing the technical quality of the port.

Traitorous Leopard posted:

A note to newer players on this - there’s an overwhelming amount of info to absorb in this game, but one thing to make sure you pay attention to early on is always check on the active invasions. They can have some pretty sweet loot (potato bps, forma), but more importantly they’ll have weapon parts for many Wraith/Vandal variants that are complete RNG to acquire. And some of these are reallllly good weapons (Strun Wraith riven squad whatup). You’ll eventually want a lot of these weapons, so accumulating them naturally as you play is a much better alternative than trying to “farm” them. I guess you can buy the parts for them as well but eh

Don’t be like me and not even realize invasions are a thing til like halfway through your play time.

Stuff like this is very useful, thanks. There's a lot going on and you don't know where all to look initially. Someone mentioned getting reputation going as soon as possible (MR 3, which I should hit this evening). The wiki is very good at explaining systems once you know what to look for.

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v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Mimesweeper posted:

Maybe somebody already said this but the coupon code FREESWORD (which you can enter at the Market from your spaceship) gives you a pre-potatoed Heat Sword and a free weapon slot and that's enough of an upgrade from the Mk1 melee weapons to do a lot of good.

Didn't know about this, thanks!

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

RoadCrewWorker posted:

That's very interesting to hear as a late arrival - the frantic movement system and movement based frames are far and way my favorite thing in the second-to-second gameplay loop compared to any other slow and plodding third person games i've played, and its feel was always something that escaped me whenever i watched footage of someone else playing, which is why i skipped past the game for years.

This is so spot on. Every Warframe clip I saw looked either too frenetic to comprehend on or boring in how fast things died. The fluidity of movement and combat doesn't come across so well until you try it, which in my case was because I was looking for the next game on the Switch after MHGU and a quick look turned into being hooked in an hour.

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

movement used to run off of a recharging stamina bar. sprinting, wall-running, MELEE, all tied to the stamina stat. it was terrible and i'm glad it is gone.

I love my Monster Hunter, Soulsbourne and other stamina as currency games, but it would be so so wrong here.

They need to remove those small ledges above doors next.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

super sweet best pal posted:

Oberon's my favorite frame with good ability synergy. Undocumented boosts to the other three on Hallowed Ground. They really should make tutorials for the frames.

Is there some place that tries to document what the community's figured out about these? There's so much that's a mystery about frame abilities.

For example, I'm new and found out just this week that Energy Vampire is fixed total energy per target and not constant energy per unit time, so it's ok and even good to kill targets after you inflict EV. Would've been good to know when leveling Trinity Prime.

Oberon was fun. Vauban so far has not been great. Are there any hidden mechanics to his abilities?

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Evil Mastermind posted:

What's a better gun now that I'm at MR7? Are there any tricks that make soloing less painful?

I'm new too, not much further than you. Hek as mentioned is very good and worth the potato investment. The Atomos was the biggest jump in overall damage since its beam jumps to nearby enemies from your target, it's terrific and has been my go to level everything else weapon.

I didn't like the Gorgon much either, the Soma was more fun in that vein. The Kohm was good for its innate punch through though a shotty, but I often ran low on ammo with it - Carrier with Ammo Case would've been good to have when using it.

For melee, the free Heat Sword you can get with FREESWORD has a potato in it so you can make it do quite a lot of damage. I put a potato into Atterax and it's good.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

I too agree with Tuxedo Catfish, all of their posts on this page.

Besides requiring players to use tools better rather than taking them away, the game should flag effects better so we can correlate and learn enemy behaviors through play. As a new player I eventually noticed energy drain had happened well after I had been drained and had to Google to find out what causes that. There's nothing in game that can show you what's the cause.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Raspberry Bang posted:

I know this is the wrong thread to ask but whoever is running the console discord is dropping the ball.

Does anyone have a link to the console discord?

Console thread OP says to use a PS4 community to join those clans: "If you join the PS4 Warframe Goons community and ask for an invite somebody will get you into one of the clans." More detail there.

Switch goons are active in the goon discord, but only a few goons from the other platforms in there.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

RoadCrewWorker posted:

So having only been around for a few weeks i was curious how viable it is to get all your reactors and catalysts from alerts/invasions. Quick plot of the Offical warframe alerts twitter later:
[...]
Going by the red 4-week moving average it looks like there's roughly 3(+-1) potato alerts or invasions per week, including DevStream Lotus gifts. The variance is actually lower than i assumed, and it looks like they even fine-tuned it in the second half of 2018.

Useful to know, thanks.

Looking at that alerts feed again brings up: why do they have different alerts on the various platforms? Is it the 1 month delay between releases?

It's annoying as a Switch player to not be able to use some of the tools put together by the PC community because of these disparities.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

How often do PoE Ghoul Purges happen on PC and not-Switch consoles? Wiki says every few weeks and also that you get mail when they start. Nothing like that's happened on the Switch yet, would be nice to be able to farm the mods that come with the ghouls.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

njsykora posted:

They're generally every non-Baro weekend. So should happen this weekend since Baro was last week.

Cool. So no inbox notification as the wiki says, just show up on the weekend?

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

I've never gotten an alert. Maybe they haven't activated these on the Switch.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Zero VGS posted:

I actually play with the standalone client so my friends can share my Steam account, but I'll at least take a look at this, maybe I can just create a blank steam account to use if it can do controller config.

You can add any game to Steam as an external program. As long as you then run the game using Steam to start it, all of Steam's controller support just works. I used it with a DS4 and it worked a treat. It's very flexible and will even let you use the gyros in the DS4 better than the game itself does (only active in aim mode for eg, or use as a mouse to control the virtual pointer, etc).

Edit: I'm playing Warframe on the Switch, my PC not being here, so I haven't tried it with Steam. But here's an example of a decently complex config I made for the Steam controller and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. that shows the kind of stuff you can do: https://imgur.com/a/NonXd

v1ld fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jan 21, 2019

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

The Ignis Wraith was added for Switch users who don't have any clans with the BP available, it's a good gesture by DE.

They're going to rerun Acolytes soon for the same reason, the Switch doesn't have any access to those mods.

As a Switch player seeing DE give us the Ignis Wraith and, hopefully soon, Acolytes is a very good thing. Makes me feel better about playing on it long term.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

What I'd like to see in warframe 2019 is improved archwing controls and gameplay, especially in time for railjack, give archwings a "stop moving" button that exists outside of itzal's 2 ability, make enemies shoot REALLY visible projectiles and add a 100m loot vacuum to space.

Amen. And an easier/more fun way to level up archwings as it's quite slow going right now.

Though it's not like I have many mods to stick into the under-leveled stuff thanks to no vacuum.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

njsykora posted:

The trans flag Nezha is a time tested and excellent scheme. Especially with the blue as the energy colour.



Liberal use of the Valentine palette everywhere has given me almost exactly that same Nezha. I've been leaving energy colors at default though, it was quite confusing to track what magic has been cast when I started and still is to some extent so I thought I'd make it easy on other folks.

Post-rework Nezha really is a super good frame.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Bobby Deluxe posted:

I'm just a little disappointed at how many of the achievements have been for super sweaty tryhard stuff instead of things you'd probably do anyway in a normal week. It's sort of putting me off playing, because I can see it turning into something I feel the need to do, and that's never been a healthy road for me, gaming wise.

I've gone back and forth on NW as some of it is cool, but having yet another standing/rep grind in this game that's already full of them hasn't been great. Alerts had a lot of problems but one feature was that after the first few weeks you didn't need many of the things and could just ignore those alerts, moving on to other parts of the game. NW is more of a commitment, you either do it full bore or you don't do it at all, there's no in-between point or slackening off.

The biggest problem with alerts being their random timing, they could've fixed that part by implementing rewards directly as part of the daily/weekly/elite weekly so you could choose what tasks to do based on your needs instead of having to grind standing to spend. Which would be similar to alerts lasting for a couple days, except these tasks are more interesting than the old alerts.

The reward tiers kinda make it worse, you have to grind standing from all tasks to get to the later rewards even though you will only land up spending that standing on catalysts/potatoes/nitain beyond a certain point. At least add some new and useful stuff to that list, like wisps or other grindy things from the open worlds.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

I don't do riven trading at all but the quickly formed impression from a great distance is that DE seems to go to great lengths to not upset riven market valuations. That stuff seems about the only sacrosanct entity in the game.

I don't see a conspiracy or anything, probably just indicates that's where some real revenue/whaling is going on.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

The thread on reddit discussing the ban had some folks talking about 10K plat riven purchases with one person mentioning their personal 8K sale. 500 real $$ on the consoles or a fourth of that on the PC when that plat first entered the economy is a lot of money for a riven.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

I heard there are 3rd party sites where you can buy plat for real money for much less than DE sells it for, providing a way to cash out from the game. That would be the only reason to accumulate plat beyond your mod/color/deluxe skin/epeen needs, right? Has there ever been any action by DE against those?

I'm genuinely curious on the history here, not the drama around this specific event.

It's kinda sad to see folks getting ripped off in trade chat for simple mods when warframe.market exists to provide open pricing information. But market's open information is kinda useless when most folks don't know of it and DE doesn't seem to have done anything to promote/integrate it - even a simple api to send a message to the in-game traders or the game's woefully underused offline email system would "fix" that.

E: Ignore this since it's ridiculous speculation on my part: Quotes on fix there because it's not clear to me that DE wants to improve the trading system beyond chat today since more uninformed trades presumably correlates to more incoming plat purchases.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Mar 4, 2019

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Until Nightwave I had a slow but steady stream of potatoes coming in, enough to do the next frame/weapon at the rate I play. After Nightwave, I'm gonna have to buy potatoes from the market since I'm not spending my WF time following its ideas on what to play this week when there's plenty of other stuff I'm enjoying elsewhere in the game.

I hope they switch to a more direct reward system where you can decide what you want to play based on the challenge or the offered reward. "Do a 60min survival with a friend for a reactor." "Do 5 sorties for a catalyst." One catalyst/reactor level task a week seems about right. Or maybe drop the costs to match this level of effort/reward at the Elite Weekly level. Getting 5K standing for 5 sorties is kinda ludicrous when that's just half the cost of a level.

Why do they even have RNG in the Wolf store offerings? And what about the promise that if you don't spend all your Wolf cred now, you're SOL when the next episode/season starts and uses a new currency? There's a lot of play it now to buy stuff before it rotates out in its design. I hope it gets a rather big makeover and comes out better in the next season.

DoombatINC posted:

When building your utility Loki [...]

Thanks for this!

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Johnny Joestar posted:

if you're on console i really dunno

On Switch the best plat/$ price is 20p/1$ which you can get in 2 ways:
- 1000p for $50
- 1200p for $60 but with 2 Prime frames, weapons, syndana, prime extractor, maybe more

The latter is the better deal unless you don't want/already have Ember and Frost Prime.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

I can agree with all that, it really cut down on sudden incremental rewards from alerts with this much slower credit gain that requires multiple weeks before you can afford anything and have to hope it's on the right rotation of rewards.

All the auras should be available at the same time, more creds should be available so people who didn't get hats earlier aren't out of luck.

Yeah. I feel lucky at having started with the Switch release so I've got most of what I want from the old alerts already - certainly all the auras/nightmare mods. Good luck with that CorPro/KLethal Torrent, new player.

Ironically the only frame I ever deleted after leveling without having the Prime equivalent first was Vauban since I could get it so easily any time I wanted from alerts. RIP.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Bobby Deluxe posted:

I feel like half the problem is that the base crit is so poo poo on most melee weapons that Maiming Strike becomes necessary for one hit crits and Blood Rush becomes necessary for any kind of crit potential.

There are a ton of primaries and secondaries you can get over 100% crit with, but the highest base crit I've seen on a melee weapon was I think 30%, and that was from a Zaw build specifically to minmax crit chance.

I realise most people are used to the mindset of 'you just need Blood Rush and Maiming Strike' but requiring two super rare mods for a crit build is pretty crazy. IMHO base crit needs to come up and the boost from MS & BR needs to come way, way down - ideally so that the end result is that 1.5x combos have about the same crit chance but base crit chance is much higher.

Agree with all of this. Melee is just too focused on the combo counter for decent damage and Maiming Stike is about the only crit up mod that isn't reliant on the counter having a 2+ multiplier for decent damage. So if you're randomly running through a level and want to clear out a bunch of dudes with melee, you can stand there and whack away to get your counter up to decent damage or you can do a slide attack with Maiming Strike to obliterate them. Neither option is perfect, but the latter is preferable to the former in a game where a frame or half the guns can just blow anything away by looking at them while passing by.

Combos are the biggest problem with melee in this game.

First, there's the combo counter that is central to most, not all, damage but also utility stuff like attack speed - want Beserker to trigger on Gram Prime? You need crits. Crits? Combo counter. So Drifting Contact is the first step on the journey to Berserker, on a road that runs through Blood Rush. Getting up your counter and maintaining it is a lot of work. Or you can use Maiming Strike to get that crit in one trigger press - like using a gun.

Then there are the actual combos themselves. You need a stance for the mod points, but most stances come with deep combo chains that are difficult to use unless you memorize them. Like Cleaving Whirlwind - is it the 4th, 5th, or 6th strike that makes me launch into a jump across the room? I'd really like to not do that jump please, so I need to know. So the slide attack becomes even more important as it's good damage without getting sucked into a horrible combo chain.

There were multiple devstreams where they said fixed combos are going to be removed in favor of combinable attacks - you chain together the attacks to get the combos you want like in most fighting games. Melee 2.9999 seems to have gone in the other direction - preserving the combo even when using the quick attack and chaining into guns.

I hope they go back to that other kind of melee and remove the importance of the combo counter entirely. Make each attack in a chain something you can directly control, make each attack's impact be more direct like a gun shot is today, have stance give you different simple attacks that you are free to chain yourself.

In the meanwhile? Slide attack with memeing strike to get a simple, immediate attack and good damage.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Kyrosiris posted:

:psyduck: It takes five hits to get the combo counter to 1.5x, which makes Blood Rush give you +247.5% crit. Five hits is nothing, especially with a weapon with any degree of AoE.

:psyduck: You need a base crit chance over 70% to get to +247.5% crit chance with Blood Rush. Most melee weapons are not even at 30% so where are you getting that 70% from? Unlike guns there are no +crit chance mods to bump it up to those levels outside of maiming strike.

Regardless of that: 5 hits is a lot when you're in a mission that has you moving fast. It's also a lot when you have overwrought combo chains that lock you into position or make you do flourishes like some medieval duelist.

E: You need over 70% at a 1.5x combo mult to get that high crit chance.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Mar 12, 2019

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

nerdz posted:

I don't know if you need a macro for maiming strike. If you have any mouse with assignable extra buttons, assigning control+e to the button with do the slide attacks.

for me the biggest issue with maiming strike is that it basically ignores weapon stats. That kills most of weapon variety simply by existing, making them all play the same and do the same thing, with some being slightly better just because of better range and crit modifiers. some weapons should be for stats, others for crit and everything in between. It's my same beef with Hunter munitions, it makes high crit weapons better status weapons that status weapons! While I hate nerfs,I wouldn't mind if these mods are completely reworked.

There's just way too many ways of boosting crit which is always the best choice. I'd like if they focused on more utility mods that would boost the kill rate and damage in more creative ways than simply Higher Number Good and Warm Color Number Good.

I'm using maiming strike on Switch with an unmappable controller and it's mostly useful so macros aren't needed at all.

I agree with what you write about both Maiming Strike and Hunter Munitions flattening weapon build variety. I don't use Maiming outside of Atterax and some polearms because it is so boring to have every weapon build and use be the same.

That's the biggest problem with melee's reliance on the combo counter - it takes a few set mods to get effective damage or utility out of the combo system and that takes away from the range of builds possible.

Contrast with guns where if you want fire rate, you throw in a mod for that. Punch through? Another mod. Both? Another mod. In each of these cases you trade off a mod slot for functionality. There are 10 slots and a lot of possible builds. In the melee world, Maiming Strike and Condition Overload have outsize impact and both force the rest of the build into certain set patterns, lessening overall build variety.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Mar 12, 2019

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Kyrosiris posted:

...no? I'm talking about the modifier that Blood Rush gives you. The math on it at max rank is 1.65 * Combo Modifier, which at 1.5x is 1.65 * 1.5 = 2.475, or +247.5% Crit, which gets applied to the base crit of a weapon (so at 15% that's 0.15 * [1 + 2.475] = 52.1%).

Right, my bad in misunderstanding what you wrote.

I think this example shows the base problem quite well. There are mods for guns that directly give you +150% crit chance for rifles, say, at the cost of 1 mod slot. Rifles also have higher base crit chance than melee on the whole - that's my impression anyway.

So after you get 5 hits to get to 1.5x with a melee weapon you get to 52.1% if you started with 15% base crit. On a rifle or pistol I could well be at 50% or higher with a single mod slot and no additional effort invested during live gameplay.

That last is the important thing to me: I'd like each melee hit to be as independent and free standing as each gun shot is today. Having to combo to get damage is the problem in a game that is extremely fluid and allows for combat in fast motion otherwise.

quote:

Removing CO/BR/Maiming won't suddenly make other builds better, it would just make melee suck rear end.

I don't think anyone's talking about removing it. The implication was to tweak melee weapons to have a more diverse build set while still leaving them with good damage and viability by reducing melee's reliance on the combo counter. This would mean pumping up base damage and crit numbers while reducing the impact of Blood Rush and the combo counter.

Here's a snapshot of a spreadsheet I made while deciding whether to use True Steel with Maiming strike that shows the outside impact of the combo counter on damage multiplies. The numbers are for Atterax.


E: My Blood Rush is at 8 pips, hence the 135%. I skipped True Steel in the end and went with Jagged Edge to pump up slash as that had a bigger impact on the base damage number being multiplied here.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Playing a static defense like Hydron when there's a killframe just standing on the artifact and deleting the map can be utter tedium even though I'm there to level up things and the killframe is doing just that for me. I'm also there to play the game and it's boring to see things die before you can do anything. Being there with a competent Saryn is probably the worst while Mesa isn't bad, she at least needs to see things to kill them.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Awesome! posted:

if you dont want to play with a kill frame killing everything play solo

No, for the same reason the killframe is not playing solo: spawns suck without 4 people.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Mar 13, 2019

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

DoombatINC posted:

I run a Nekros with a Health Conversion / Adaptation / Equilibrium / Despoil setup that's tanky as gently caress (especially with a Synth Deconstruct / Fiber Carrier), and with that kind of durability I actually favor Creeping Terror over Shield of Shadows. While Terrify is usually counterproductive, the augment locks everyone in place and makes it extremely effective in a fight.

That's a neat idea, gonna try it out. I run Shield of Shadows and mostly use Terrify only if someone needs a revive in a tough spot which is a waste.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Johnny Joestar posted:

i think they kind of have to be judicious about what they do change because it costs money to push patches to console builds

They didn't push a patch to the consoles, the change was in place when I logged in on the Switch today. It was a data tweak and not even one that was pushed to us through the login screen download process (which they have an agreement with Nintendo on that lets them bypass cert).

I suspect given how it silently updated that Nightwave uses the same system used by Alerts to distribute missions dynamically from DE to us - no patches needed to change the missions.

Consoles have nothing to do with their reasons to not change Nightwave. Lots of possible reasons for why they wouldn't change it for 10 weeks, but I'm going with they want to see the numbers on how people engaged with their low-dev-effort high-player-engagement system.

Mailer posted:

The part I don't get is wanting alerts back. Like if you don't have much time to play I respect that. In that case, this system is better

If I don't have much time to play, it's all the more important I play what I want to play and not run through a list of missions selected by DE for me to play. This is very much not an improvement for those with no time - it's great for those with a lot of time because they can do NW and whatever else they want to do in the game.

quote:

because the stuff you'd miss out on - taters, nitain, choice cosmetics - is now point buy 24/7 and you can get whatever you want. An extremely lean average of 10k a week gets you 30 nitain (or a tater and 5 nitain, or whatever you want to spend your creds on), two weapon slots, a warframe slot, a noggle, 3 forma, and an emote. All this is regardless of when you log in and constitutes a trivial amount of effort.

Effort may not be the right metric - this isn't a job. Time available to play a game and being able to choose how you use that time for your enjoyment is a better one.

Going over your list of what's available at 10K a week. I was averaging close to a potato every week I played and all the nitain I needed organically modulo possibly a 2-3 day wait for the latter. Now you can get 1 tater/5 nitain or 30 nitain in 10 weeks. This is a big change.

That linear tiered reward list is a big part of the problem: instead of an unreliable alert system that fired stuff at the wrong times sometimes I now have to spend time grinding through stuff I don't need (emotes) to get to the thing I cannot progress without (nitain).

The limited use currency is another problem in itself. If you missed 2 weeks of alerts, you "lost" nothing: you'll get the same things 2 weeks later is all. With the currency limited to a specific 10 week window, 2 weeks away from the game is 2 weeks of currency you can never get.

None of these are problems if you have a lot of time to spend on the game or alternatively, you're happy with or looking for DE providing the script for what to do in the game.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

The aura and nightmare mod changes are particularly bad. Sucks for new players who want them when compared to how even I, who started at the end of Nov, would routinely skip a Lethal Torrent alert because they were so common and I already had a couple on hand if someone needed it. Lethal Torrent is in the hard nightmare drop list, so you're not getting one now till late in the star chart and the grind is not going to be easy if you're a new player just hitting those missions.

Good luck getting Blaze or Hammer Shot, which are now solely a 1% drop from nightmare missions. I know Hammer Shot gets sneered at a lot, but it's a very good mod for how early and easily you used to be able to get it as a new player.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Bobby Deluxe posted:

Even as an MR21 it feels like I am spending all of my time doing nightwave and I don't have any time to progress my character. I haven't done any profit taker yet, not even nearly enough hunting, syndicates, saving up ducats for Baro, void traces and corrupted mods; and on top of that there's fractures this week as well.

It's just too much. I feel demotivated and burned out, and when a game makes me feel like that it makes me actively not want to play it.

I was here too and just deciding to skip out entirely on NW has let me keep playing, for what it's worth. I now only do the stuff that seems interesting and other stuff that can be fun because clan mates are doing them, but that's it.

It ain't much but it's a living when it comes to getting enough nitain to keep playing the bits of the game I do like.

If they'd simply make nitain tradeable I could ignore NW altogether, but I'm not holding out hope for that.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Bobby Deluxe posted:

The chargers kept knocking me out of scan mode, and every time I cleared a few the room filled up again by the time I managed to switch to the scanner again (console controls are fiddly).

Binding dpad left and right to 2 gear slots is a game changer, especially for scanning. I bind them to slots 2 & 3 and have the synth scanner and kinetic trap in those slots.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

I've been watching those new DE interviews and Steve said Prime Access is very big for them in terms of revenue, tone seemed to imply biggest source. Very good to hear because it will keep their focus on new frames and weapons and those are the best things about this huge game to me.

Likewise why I hope they put more effort on gameplay tweaks like the damage overhaul because that will have a huge impact on how frames and weapons play and will hopefully lead to even more interesting and diverse builds. Interestingly, He said they wanted to do the damage overhaul as the first thing this year but held off because they didn't want to roll out nerfs just as new competition came out.

Another interesting statement was that the new player experience sucks, Steve's words, mainly because they put so much effort into keeping the experienced players engaged.

Edit: I don't consider Nightwave to be new content, whatever that word means, just a checklist of things I could do, but I think every frame and unique weapon is. I wonder how common that viewpoint is. The existence of a new reward doesn't make what I have to do to earn it new content while a frame or build to play with is new and fun to me.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Apr 1, 2019

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Evil Mastermind posted:

I have friends who've just started playing recently, and their biggest complaint is that very little is explained in-game once you get past the opening missions. And that's true, I've been playing for months and there are still things I wouldn't know if I wasn't in the clan because I guess DE assumes everyone's looking up guides or something.

Like vault keys. Is there anything in the game that tells you they exist, or why you'd build them, or where you'd use them? If there is I never saw it.

That's a very good example, I saw them in the dojo and had no idea what they were for. There's the reverse effect too: you get an orokin something or other when you open a vault and the game doesn't tell you what it's for. The wiki will tell you it's a remnant of a long-passed event they didn't bother to take out. That just the new player confusion even more.

Demon's/Dark Souls were known for requiring you to wiki a lot. But that was mainly for drops, secrets and maps. Those game teach you a lot of things through doing - bosses especially can be learned by fighting them. You get the sense that they put a lot of effort into the learning aspect of the game - both for story and for enemy behavior.

And then there's your first encounter with Teralyst who has mechanics that have to be read up or have explained to you for you to have a hope to defeat it. It's completely opaque though you get random hints while doing other things in the form of popups when you pass a lure for eg. Lephantis is still one of my favorite bosses in this game because you can figure out what you need to do and when from what's happening on screen - no voiceovers needed.

I think the popup picture with voiceover technique used heavily in the game is both good and bad, great for atmosphere in some quests like Natah but mostly bad in the long term. You're often in the thick of things and will not register the things that Lotus is telling you. They overuse this and it has become an easy way to bypass putting cues and learning into the game.

It's not great for storyline stuff with a few exceptions - finally tackled Chains of Harrow and I think a lot of it was less impactful because I was focused on dealing with stuff happening rather than listening to the voiceovers that are timed poorly to coincide with having to figure out some minor new mechanics.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

StashAugustine posted:

Also, any tips on the mastery rank 17 test? It's been causing me trouble

I passed it a week ago using a throwaway firewalker and sprint Nezha build:


Pop the 1 as you start and spend all your time on getting to the orbs, enemies will burn to death.

You get control as the loud sound plays during the whiteout after Lotus finishes talking, a few seconds before you can see anything. I would start up Firewalker on that sound. You start facing the drop so it's not advisable to move until you can see, however.

My inter-level bullet jumps weren't very consistent so I would run to the nearest staircase after popping each orb and wait to see which level the next orb popped on. It's easy to bullet jump from that middle point, but sinc esprinting everywhere leaves fire for them to burn on I just ran everywhere.

The staircase thing worked very well for me.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

sushibandit posted:

Knell buffs are a-ok by me, it feels much better to use as an automatic and two bullets in the chamber will make it much easier to start the pain train if you're shooting at things that aren't locked down.

That said, it will never not piss me off that they force the lovely annoying scope effect when I have deliberately turned off scope effects in the game settings. Gotta love DE's wild inconsistency. And by love I mean loathe.

As a Switch player having the Knell go auto is nice to see. A controller is not bad for autos because of their fire rate but doesn't work well for semi auto weapons. Snipers are different with their scopes and huge single shot damage, the Rubico Prime feels good to use at range, but the Tiberon Prime was disappointing because you're using it at closer ranges and have less time to get the aim right.

It's cool that DE allows the use of firing macros on PC, but I wish they'd do something for consoles as well. Leyzar's video on the Tiberon Prime for eg has him talking up the lovely semi and burst modes while using a macro that may as well make it a full auto weapon with a low fire rate.

They should do a auto semi-auto mode just like they did the auto burst mode for the Battacor, a lovely weapon where my biggest current problem is deciding whether to stop at 4 forma or go to 5 forma. An auto mode kinda compensates for the lack of precise mouse aiming on a controller.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Light up the nearest of the new consoles when the final bounty stage completes so everyone wouldn't rush back to Cetus to get the next one. Play a message asking you to go there even. Those things seem to have been carefully designed to blend into the landscape so you can't see them unless you fly almost directly over them, which is when they pop up on the minimap.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

It'd go a long way if they'd simply add options on nodes that let you control initial enemy levels and spawn factors - Earth Survival starting at level 100 with 4 player spawn rates, for eg. As is for harder content you have to either invest 45 mins to get the levels up or play the more limited modes like sortie or arbitrations. Both of the latter are nice, but it's not the same as playing the meat of the game at higher levels. If they're worried about messing up the finely tuned new player experience the game offers today, they can restrict these options till later, say till when you have arbitrations unlocked.

Sorties are interesting because they add (often) fun restrictions or conditions. Letting us add these ourselves to arbitrary nodes wouldn't be a bad thing.


Boss design seems to be their eternal weakness when it comes to adding challenge. Exploiter Orb is a fun fight, right up until you realize that the canisters you're throwing in phase 2 - specifically for rounds 2 and 3 - seem to be having little effect as they seem to have implemented checks to prevent the fight getting over too quickly. Or at the least, there is sometimes no correlation between hitting the orb with a shot canister and the heat bar.

They could've made it more transparent, increasing the heat health of the thing to where it will take a lot more time if you dawdle but also allowing a coordinated team to complete it faster but where the heat bar immediately provides feedback on your performance. As is, the second phase is now mostly a timer you ride out instead of worrying about the heat bar as much. Which kinda devolves to the same kind of time wasting as invulnerability phases. They need to bring in some fresh blood for their boss fight mechanics design.

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v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

Tuxedo Catfish posted:


I thought Thermia increased the rate at which she overheats, lending the fight a certain degree of inevitability. That might just be me jumping to conclusions, though. If it's actually time gated that's loving bullshit and even more of a black mark on an otherwise shockingly well-designed (for DE) bossfight than the heat mechanic... already was.

I read, and this syncs with what I've seen, each of the 3 rounds before you defeat it in phase 2 is divided into sub-rounds that each begin when the orb spawns new fractures. In round 1 it spawns fractures once, twice in round 2, three times in round 3. You can't finish a round until its fractures have happened.

Problem is I couldn't see a correlation between what I was doing with the canisters and the fracture spawn moment. I'm sure someone will figure it out soon, but that it's so unclear is just more bad signposting by DE.

I like the fight, it's fun - indeed surprisingly so for a DE boss. Requiring you to do something else other than murder to do the fight while still requiring you to fend off support with full power use is a good direction. They just need to make the gauge and progress clearer.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Apr 9, 2019

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