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Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Piell posted:

Resource drone coming for Update 11
- deploy on a system and it will mine for an amount of time, and then you can claim the resources
- not platinum-only!
- drone can take damage and be shot down if not claimed
- could collect rare resource
- can have multiple drones, 1-2 at least (based on mastery rank somehow)
I wonder how the bot-aspirants are going to handle having actual botminers at their disposal.

Dapper Man posted:

She looks to be holding a new weapon.
There was some concept art waaaay back in the last thread of three tenno weapons, I want to say it resembles one of them.

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Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Ardeem posted:

I just assumed thousand year old Daft Punk mp3s.
Buttrock, actually.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Khorne posted:

What's the deal with cloning the PC account?
As a clone, you will have to choose one of the three starter Grineer: Sawman, Lancer, Scorpion. From there, you'll want to play the tutorial, where you lug around some Void-breaching machinery for Captain Vor, then get horribly slaughtered by a Tenno extraction team.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Schubalts posted:

Did DE give any hints on which boss will drop the Berserker's blueprints?
Probably Alad V / Zanuka since they're coming out at around the same time.

I'm more curious about how void rewards are going to get shuffled around for Ember Prime.

Yaos posted:

I'm doing the first sabotage mission and I can't figure out what we're supposed to do. If we stay where we are they overrun us, and if we move forward there are tons of them in the way. I've yet to see anybody even reach a life support pod.
As Cathair said, this sounds more like Survival, which is a KILL DUDES AS FAST AS POSSIBLE mission type. DE kind of pulled them off the mandatory path for a reason, so you may want to leave them for later. Tell us your loadout and we can point you in a direction to build your stuff around.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Yaos posted:

Yep, I can move on to Venus. It looked locked to me but on the planet map I found Venus was unlocked. I went back to Mercury and after about 10 clicks I figured out I could just click on "Venus" to move me over. I'm dumb.
You can click and drag the map too. It's not you, it's the UI. Last time it came up a lot of people where shocked.

None of us have gotten around to making a UI video have we? There's just so much poo poo to cover!

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Denzine posted:

That is also enemy level, not the level you should be at. You should be able to cruise through Venus pretty simply, but Earth will be a bit of a wall until you at least get an AP damage mod.

The game is kind of wonky.
Also, you can totally hitch a ride with other people to unlock locations past a mission that's stonewalling you.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Morshu posted:

Have they outright said that warframes are mutated people, and not just weird suits of armor made from the virus? I recall the devs not really outright stating anything, and while I never played Dark Sector, I think Hayden's excal suit could be taken off, and only his arm mutated.

More lore's coming up in the next update, but as for what was going on in Dark Sector, the technocyte virus turns tissue into "living metal", and this seems to still hold true - during the last event, Ruk made reference to your "metal corpse", and while the current Infestation seems a lot fleshier than Dark Sector mutants, you can still see them growing into metal parts almost seamlessly (especially the Runner's hand fusing into its Corpus helmet). The Protosuit and Nemesis from Dark Sector were built around technocyte-derived technology, which suggests to me that at least some parts were grown or possibly even skinned off of mutants. The Warframes and other Orokin tech (those nerve bundle trees all over the ships) are probably the result of a much more controlled and refined process (just as Lephantis and the current Infestation are apparently a specifically weaponized form of Technocyte), but a few of the helmets really don't look like an intact human head can fit in them, and Warframe's generally pretty good with proportions. Then there's Alad V's "well, you don't have eyes", and as the guy who's been vivisecting Warframes, he would know.

Also possibly notable, technocyte infection is apparently extraordinarily painful, resulting in most people just turning into the crazed mutants in Dark Sector. Unable to feel pain, Hayden Tenno got to keep his wits about him. If nothing else, this is a good excuse for why our Warframes never verbally react to damage.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Crowbear posted:

I also didn't realize he could show up for mastery tests. That is hilariously cruel.
There was a period where he could show up in the tutorial. WELCOME TO WARFRAME

Feenix posted:

Is there something I can do to increase starting ammo capacity?
There are weapon mods for both mag size and reserve capacity. Also ammo mutator mods which take some doing to get ahold of.
Go damage first if you've got them, though.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Kung-Fu Jesus posted:

Laphroaig Quarter Cask packaging spotted in that dude's office

oh and some bourbon whatever.
Then the two boxes behind the Laphroaig. I think they've commented on the "water" they're drinking during streams more than once, too.

It makes a certain sort of sense that DE are a bunch of boozehounds.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Stealth can be nice and all, but at this point the game has thoroughly rooted itself in the territory of Explode Many Dudes. Perhaps if there were a stealth-based missiontype that isn't on the main progression routes through the starchart.

We just discovered the Warframe equivalent of blaming a fart on a dog. If you find yourself doing something that annoys other goons, it's totally the pubbie that did it.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Basically, Warframe is what Dark Sector was supposed to be.

I have made a horrible mistake. You see this:

Fish Noise posted:

We just discovered the Warframe equivalent of blaming a fart on a dog. If you find yourself doing something that annoys other goons, it's totally the pubbie that did it.
Don't do this.
There are consequences. Terrible consequences.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Feindfeuer posted:

This patch turned my murderous space killer into an idiotic space tourist. I just stand there and snap pictures of everything, be it gun wielding space marine, resource container or computer intercace... completely oblivious to all the killing going on around me. And for some retarded reason I'm enjoying it. I guess the damage thingy is also nice, haven't had time testing it yet with all the pictures I have to take.
Right?! It's like the Bioshock research camera all over again!
From what I've done so far, level doodads and special NPCs (rescuees and capture targets) can be ignored, they don't have codex entries. Yet.
Rollers can be tricky, but I got a bunch by letting them grind against the cryopod on Kiste for just long enough to get a photo before stomping on them.
Ospreys are very problematic, but you can take photos of friendly NPCs, so take advantage of this during the U11 Invasion event.
Starting to take the photo breaks Shade stealth, last I tried.
Bosses only need three photos.

Helter Skelter posted:

1. Gear section of the arsenal. It's also a good idea to assign whatever slot you stuck it in to a hotkey.
Using the hotkey for whatever you put the scanner in will switch between the scanner and your last used weapon. Convenient.

Kokoro Wish posted:

I already have Ember, but I thought I'd take a look at Sargas Ruk to see how they changed him since I liked him in the last event.
I went after him to have a look and take photos, going Rhino, Mag Prime (sadly he was immune to ragdolling by the time I tried), Rhino, and primarily using a L30 0-Forma Brakk (Ignis didn't do jack poo poo).
What the Christ. Let me get this straight. He's invulnerable in general, like Kril. His weak spot is only exposed by shooting him (or his weapon? Not sure, was using Brakk) while he's using a power (the homing fireball or anything fancier, I never got any results while he's just doing the regular flamethrower). This flares up a location on his armor (first his left shoulder, then chest, then back), through which he can take damage. The location flareups seem to go by thirds on his health bar, and can go out if you don't hit them for long enough. And finally he falls on his face. Aside from the flamethrower, none of his attacks seem reliably provokable, he just brings them out depending on the stage of the fight, so it takes for loving ever.
Also, his flamethrower is... nothing special? The homing fireball does knockdown but doesn't track too well, his fire shockwave does a pile of damage and knockdown while being stupidly huge, and his ground eruption firestorm leads your movement and does knockdown but at least telegraphs itself alright. DE seems to have improved their leading system so if you run against a wall the next location is right at your feet instead of some distance ahead on the other side of the wall - I thought Corpus aim suddenly improved a while ago, this confirms it to me.
He looks cool and all but god drat it, DE, another one of these bosses? And where the gently caress is my Ember buff with Ruk-level powers?
I do like his casual stroll, though.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Gestalt Intellect posted:

LOOK AT THAT FISH






chumbler posted:

Tenno are cats.
Sometimes you don't even need to say a thing, just go up to the fish and stare at it silently, and the next thing you know, the entire dojo is there too.

Poniard posted:

New high frequency technology!

RESEARCH INTENSIFIES

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


MJ12 posted:



So guys do you think love can bloom on the battlefield?
Clearly, the Crewman tripped, and the Lancer is in incredible agony from a Corpus boxhelmet ramming his balls like the British Navy.

Kanos posted:

I can't believe they buffed the Soma.
I thought it was more along the lines of rebuffing it back to its former state?

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


chumbler posted:

Tigris (the double barreled shotgun): poo poo. Its reload is way too long for its 2 (really just 1) shot magazine, and its base damage is not high enough to compensate for either of those things. It still has damage dropoff, doesn't have a wide spread or high number of pellets, and doesn't have a good crit chance or any real redeeming features. There is absolutely no reason to use this gun unless you just really want a double barreled shotgun. Like it's so bad I don't think a single person at DE play tested it, and I honestly wonder how nobody saw its stats and thought "Hey maybe this blows." Use the sobek.
I'm just going to add that Tigris' first shot is a standard button-down fire, but the second shot is button-up. Essentially a charged shot with 0 charge time. So tapping fire will vomit out both shots very quickly, but click-and-hold will only put out the first shot, the second shot coming when you release fire. This might make it marginally more useful, but it's still kind of weird.

One of the hotfixes around yesterday made it work properly like this. Before, the second shot would be delayed based on how long you held down fire, but it wouldn't match up with when you release fire, and it would always go off on its own after something like half a second, so it was more or less uncontrollable.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Ciaphas posted:

Am I crazy or does the melee in this game feel very, uh... disconnected, I suppose is the best word? There seems to be no relation between where my weapon and the enemy are, and when damage is being dealt. Abilities too, at least if Slash Dash is any indicator. I'll ram directly into something and it seems to take zero damage.
In between target limits and a large but worthless pool of longswords and melee-oriented mods that are frame mods instead, standard melee is... one of the things that needs a lot of work, to put it as nicely as I can. Damage 2.0 seems to have improved some things slightly, but the situation is still not ideal. If you're going to melee, go with heavies like Galatine for its fuckoff charge damage and 5 target hits, or silly weapons with outrageously fun effects like ragdolling. Otherwise run Helicopter Blades for mobility or leave melee weapons on your back for mastery while someone else nukes everything at Cyath.

There is a reason why I have a level 30 machete with 0 kills on it.

E: For an aspect of the game that's NOT so dire, we did devise an improvised gamemode!

While running some T1 Caps, I spammed a bunch of wormholes into the exit room door and announced "SOLVE MY MAZE TO SAVE YOUR FRIENDS".
At which point Vauban Bouncepads to my face were threatened. And followed up on!

Thus, Vauban dodgeball was born!

The team goes through the mission accomplishing objectives as normal, but the target evades Vaubans (and Vauban-allied Lokis) who are trying to plaster them with as many bounce pads as humanly possible.
Strategies as the target: DZoren, Wormhole, skipping enemies for Vaubans to fight through, setting off traps for Vaubans to deal with, taking down the Capture Target but leaving him behind for the Vaubans to pick up.

Fish Noise fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Nov 24, 2013

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Cowcaster posted:

Is there any reason to hang onto a vanilla snipetron if I've drained the mastery out of it and have a snipetron vandal? Ditto any of the weapons versus their prime counterparts?
Exclusivity in the case of Snipetron Classic. It's not available anymore, same with the regular Boar.

Since you're even asking this, I assume you're not going in for insane collecting. Anything where the Prime is a straight upgrade over the regular, you may as well sell the regular when you're done with it. Consider holding on to them if they behave in a distinctly different manner, can be used to build order things (Lato -> Bolto, Bronco -> Dual Bronco), or if you've invested starch and puzzle pieces.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Snipetron got pulled because it's a Corpus weapon, but fires bullets, and that doesn't fit with the Corpus.
Well, that's DE's story, anyways. When Snipetron got pulled, it was replaced by the Vulkar for the Grineer, and the Lanka - which looks identical to the Snipetron - for the Corpus.

More recently, Ether Daggers, Boar, and Gorgon have been pulled from the store, but Gorgon BPs are still in the login reward table and Heavy Gunners still use them. They gave a pretty generous warning period before they pulled these three, probably because the Snipetron's sudden disappearance riled up some people.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


So, in addition to attaining apotheosis, we see to have broken the dueling room and created a Crisis Across Infinite Dojos situation, inexplicably creating Dojo instances where everyone sees the fish spin. In addition to Dojo Prime, the tels-Lavan and Gestalt-Meckell realities appear to be semi-stable.

Research into breaching between these parallel dojos via fish portals is currently underway.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Gestalt Intellect posted:

guys I've seen things
So we may have developed a method to ascend en-masse.

Azzanadra posted:

The Lotus is a lie. The Rotofish has shown me our folly. Join me and the Rotofish.
Advanced meditative techniques

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Dez Orwell posted:

Not that I'm an expert, but I feel like the best way to gain mastery is to always be leveling something, but never be leveling everything. The first time you come up against Stalker with level 5 equipment across the board is when you know you've messed up.
From what I remember...

When you kill something, the XP is split 50/50 between your frame and what you did the killing with.
You get a kill worth 400 with a weapon, 200 goes to that weapon, 200 goes to your frame.
You get a kill worth 400 with a frame power, all 400 goes to your frame.

When someone else kills something, you get a duplicate (NOT a split) of their XP, split evenly 25/25/25/25 between your stuff.

I may not be remembering everything exactly right and it probably gets messier with sentinels involved, but you get the basic idea.

So if you want to be mostly self reliant, you can run with a low level weapon and frame and use that weapon for the most part, but have a higher level weapon on hand for... emergencies.
If you're teamed up with other people, ESPECIALLY if one of them is power-spamming and can nuke everything on their own, you can get away with low level everything. I do recommend letting people know ahead of time that you'll be sticking to their rear end to leech XP, though.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Hek and Sobek are Mastery 4, so they're out as far as babby's first shotgun goes.

Strun is Mastery 1, and then there's Tigris, but I'm not sure about Tigris' mastery requirements.

Tigris is a little weird to get used to. Only two shots, the first shot fires on mousedown, the second shot fires on mouseup, like a charged bow shot. Tap to effectively burstfire both. The second shot can be reload-canceled. It seems to be a low spread shotgun like Hek and Sobek, but its damage type is weighted towards Slash. For utility mods, you pretty much only need reload speed.

Strun is a normal semiautomatic with six shots, wider spread, and slightly lower total physical damage than Tigris. It's very slow to reload and somewhat slow to fire, so you'll definitely want fire rate and reload speed utility mods to get those out of the way.

Do note that all shotguns have damage dropoff over range, so you want to be using them at close to midrange.

Then there are the shotgun pistols...

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Kanos posted:

-Loki: Radial Disarm is in the running for shittiest uber.
Portland Loki and his corrupt cop beatdown army would like a word with you.

Crowbear posted:

But I have to say I really, really don't like her design. Those things attached to her leg armor make her look like she has thunder thighs and I think she has chicken claws for feet?
Ember is literally a chicken. I am not kidding.
Much earlier in DE's design document, Ember was intended to be male, and they showed off their old paper napkin concept art in a stream: original Ember's helmet actually had a beak and rooster comb.

Fish Noise fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 26, 2013

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Crowbear posted:



So... she's a fire chicken? That sounds familiar...


Haven't you noticed that the Grineer sometimes say "Grin-Grin-Grineeeer" and that they throw balls?

...it makes sense, doesn't it?

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Have you seen how much gold Orokin stuff uses? To the Tenno, that's like being a shark in a pool of blood. Of course they're going to lose their poo poo and kill everyone when you put them in the middle of a giant crowd for a public celebration.

THEY'RE ALL FULL OF PLAT GET THEM

Well, this certainly explains why the Corpus keep calling us Betrayers. Now, how about the Sentients, the low Guardians, and that new non-faction silhouette in the codex...

E: Turns out that silhouette is the Grineer Target.

Fish Noise fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Nov 28, 2013

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


WeaponBoy posted:

Don't you see? This is all a lead-in to adding announcer packs for Warframe. I would pay to have Rucks tell me about incoming assault squads.

"The Tenno just rages for a while."
But this is Warframe, so they're going to see "Ruks" instead and you're going to get a dozen Sargas Ruk clones fighting for the mic and yelling over each other.

I would be fine with that, honestly.

everybody posted:

loving speedrunners
I admit, I do like to gently caress around in low level areas sometimes, but I do it by killracing, not speedrunning.

Before I started calling the bad pubbies Dogfarts, I was calling them Grineer. You see, the Grineer are founded on hate and jealousy. And I figure that the high level speedrunners are literally only doing public games to be shitheads. People doing regular progression just slow them down, and in solo they don't have to deal with co-op doors or other people standing under cameras. Either they are only in a public game to scream at you, or they are ignorant of the fact that co-op doors turn into solo doors when they're alone. There are no other reasons for their presence. They are either Grineer or Bot-Aspirants.

As such, when you find yourself in the presence of such people, co-op doors become your new best friend. And if it weren't for the new host picking and host migration, I would even be telling you to let them stand in extraction while you walk right up to the edge of the exit zone, and abort the game at the last second when you are the host.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Lawlicaust posted:

Good catch. Just got that room and that timer is ridiculously short. Maybe 5 seconds at most.
These can also be pre-bombed before opening with explosive weapons and powers.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


poptart_fairy posted:

Cool, thanks for the advice guys. I'll just sit tight and wait until I can start farming stuff properly. Still getting used to everything in the game, so
Are you on PC or PS4, and what's your warframename? People can probably take you on the Rhino circuit, get you the parts and materials relatively easily.

Dapper Man posted:

They are bringing on a new dedicated UI designer starting in December to overhaul the UI. The first thing he's going to implement is configurable UI scaling.
UIDesignerframe, savior of the universe! \o/

I certainly hope they do eyetracker testing.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Terbulus posted:

Click the claim extractor loot button rapidly to gain extra loot
[EXTRACTION INTENSIFIES]

Jesus Christ, DE. How is this a thing that works. Look at all these nanospores I have now. Look at them.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Cowcaster posted:

Weapon effectiveness is entirely independent of what warframe you're using.
Well. Ranged weapon effectiveness, anyways.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


chumbler posted:

It is worth remembering that Mag used to be arguably the worst frame in the game and then got insanely buffed to being just shy of Nova/Rhino levels, so Necros and Valkyr probably won't spend too too long being crappy. DE may make a lot of mistakes, but they do (eventually) get around to fixing them.
They promised an Ember buff.

I'm waiting, DE.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


chumbler posted:

Damage 2.0 was a pretty solid buff to Ember (also Volt and Frost). Fireball is actually somewhat decent now (still needs better particles, though). Overheat is still kinda meh unless you enjoy hugging people to death, but having a poo poo skill is common to all frames except Rhino, God King of All Frames. Plus Ember prime looks cool, which is as good as a buff.
That's bringing poo poo down into Ember's range, not an insane Mag buff, not a closer look and thorough redesign that they said they'd do.

I brought this up before. Ember has a straightforward procedure:
1. Get into the middle of the poo poo.
2. Survive getting into the middle of the poo poo.
3. Burn everything around you.

She has no 1 - someone suggested a hellstep teleport to much approval either earlier this thread or late last thread - helicopters blades do not count, they are not built-in.
Her 2 got nerfed into oblivion short of an absurdly resource-intensive mod setup because the very concept of a tanky caster is alien and disturbing to DE.
She has three 3s - one has fuckall for range, one has a target limit and may very well have been made worse in other ways.

Gestalt Intellect posted:

W....what?

HOW?
Right? I was swearing up and down in clanchat when I looked it up. Then, for a brief moment, it occured to me that maybe that D and V slot combo was meant to go with a Quick Thinking / Rage combo, because it fulfilled step 2. Then they nerfed QT/Rage literally less than an hour after I had that thought.

Dapper Man posted:

I think Nekros would be a good posterboy for the Viral elemental effect. Viral procs remove 50% of an enemies health over 6 seconds. Not that big of a deal at lower levels, but once you get up in level removing half an enemies health pool is pretty drat great. Slap it on Terrified enemies instead of the useless armor debuff and you got a winning ability that people will want to cast.
I used to joke that Excalibur was an Armor Piercing elemental. With the new elements, this here is a concept I can get behind.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Denzine posted:



Tiny Valkyr standing on another warframe's head!

SUPERNOVA

Whatever DE's doing with their Evolution Engine, something's going wrong with the draw order during aiming. You can actually see this all the way back in Dark Sector - if you check his LP, WeaponBoy shows it off, along with some weird model-to-world positioning when aiming down.

It seems that what's going on is that unaimed, you're viewing your in-world model that everyone else sees, so stuff getting in between the model and the camera is treated as it should be.
Once you are aiming, either your model's draw order priority is changed higher (or even highest), or your in-world model isn't rendered for you, and you are seeing instead the equivalent of an FPS first-person model, which has highest draw order priority so your aim isn't obstructed. Except in third person, this gives us the GIANT SPOCK effect.
I'm not exactly sure how other over-shoulder third person shooters do it, but I suspect they stick with the in-world model and simply bring the camera real close to prevent obstructions.

Gonna mess around in the Dojo to see what I can find out.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Lork posted:

This bug is something that appears in pretty much every modern third person shooter. As far as I can tell, it happens because when you aim, it zooms in and changes the field of view for the world, but your character stays unchanged (not sure why they do that, but they all do). There are plenty of things to complain about with the the Evolution Engine, but this isn't one of them, guys. Sorry.
Field of View doesn't magically make your dude visible through a total obstruction that's still in the way when zoomed in. The GoW example is definitely a result of draw order, which is how things are layered in the camera's view, regardless of how they're physically arranged in the game space (for example, your HUD has the highest priority and top layer so that it's always visible). So while A Large Man is between Marcus and the camera, physically obstructing the view of Marcus normally, aiming increases Marcus' draw order priority, moving him up a layer so that he appears to be between the camera and A Large Man instead, even though this is not actually the case and he's still on the other side of A Large Man.

The Deus Ex example does not appear to be the same draw order issue (but draw order is still involved), as it's being triggered in a different way than the GoW example: Jensen is never moved to the other side of the guards from the camera. This is probably a result of FoV combined with how I suspect DXHR handles its third person mode.

Theoretically, the change in draw order is so that nothing is obstructing your sweet over-the-shoulder view when aiming, but in looking at various examples, I am thinking that it is an unnecessary solution that developers have latched onto since you're simply rearranging the obstructions within the view in a very incongruous manner. If your camera view is blocked, your camera view is blocked, and all that messing with the draw order is accomplishing is increasing the ridiculousness of how it looks.

Fish Noise posted:

Gonna mess around in the Dojo to see what I can find out.
Interesting.

After I finish walking through Arc in the video, I also aim at various other things. The draw order change naturally has an effect on level stuff - you can see it on the dueling room hologram and fog, lily pads, and water surfaces. I'm still not sure whether or not it's switching models, as colored lighting and reflections seem to stay consistent going into aim, but another effect - shading or distance fog, maybe - is altered.

Notably, DE appears to be attempting to find a solution. You may notice the textures on Arc's Valkyr sometimes turn mostly-transparent with a thin speckling of opaque bits, thus allowing unobstructed aiming while still indicating the model's position between my Ember and the camera. It doesn't actually work that great, since it only triggers in a small range of possible obstructing positions. If DE can get that working better, they can and should skip the draw order nonsense entirely (they should skip it anyways for the reason mentioned above, but this lets them feel accomplished about it).

The draw order thing certainly explains why I had some really weird misses in extremely close-quarters shooting when I had first started playing.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


hooah posted:

About the draw priority chat - how did you guys happen to notice this? Maybe I don't aim a lot or something, but I've put well over 200 hours into this game and have never noticed the effect you're demonstrating (although I can certainly see what you're talking about when you show it off).
I knew about "some sort of aiming weirdness" in Dark Sector because of the LP, and GIANT SPOCK in general because of the birgirpall video. In Warframe, though, I only noticed an occasional tendency to shoot past an enemy I was aiming at when up reeeeal close to them when I first started playing, which I soon dismissed and adjusted for after a while (stopped aiming at point blank ranges).
I noticed GIANT SPOCK in Warframe while I was idling on top of the dojo trade tower so people could trade without being interrupted, and came back to see that someone else had climbed up and was crowding my spot. Pressed aim to turn around and suddenly "...wait a minute." Even then, I only pieced together yesterday that all of these things are being caused by draw order.

So it's definitely something most people probably don't come across in regular gameplay, but oh boy once you see it, here comes the "GIANT RHINO CARRIES PUNY EMBER" jokes. I am legitimately impressed that DE is trying to do something about it, though, even if it doesn't work so well yet.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Dezztroy posted:

The Lex is hitscan, so it doesn't apply.
That doesn't matter if the hitscan is a raytrace from the character model rather than the camera, since the perceived position of the character doesn't align with the actual position of the character under draw order shenanigan conditions.

Yaos posted:

I think to make the game better they should be thinking of the game as a Diablo clone since it's already part of the way there.
In the last thread, I distinctly remember comparisons to Monster Hunter.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


Azran posted:

Company of Heroes 2 is not a good game. The thread for it is basically dead, averaging 1 post per month.

We've been talking about Warframe and how it is a bad game for what, two pages already, between yesterday and tomorrow. This game man.
Bad is a very basic descriptor that actually encompasses a diverse spectrum, yes?
From that two sentence summary, it sounds like CoH2 is a boring, plain bad. Nothing to talk about there.
Then you have fascinatingly bad, the real trainwreck games that only have spectator atrocity value going for them: Ride To Hell, Rogue Warrior, Stalin vs Martians, and the like. You don't play these games, you victimize a friend into playing it while everyone else watches and yells "WHY?!" at the 70s giving itself rugburn to the tune of Mickey Rourke swearing at Soviet Speed Techno.

I would characterize Warframe as bad but disproportionately engrossing. The mechanical problems are often being overridden to some degree by the experiential effects of "oh my god I am filling up all these progress bars at once" and "I AM EXPLODING SO MANY DUDES RIGHT NOW" and "What is that thing I don't know what that thing is but I want it". It is flawed as gently caress but still manages to push the right buttons in your brain to make you keep going waaay longer than you should, which is why we keep wanting it to be a good game and can't shut the hell up about it.

Fruit Chewy posted:

Do we have an IRC or steam group or something to organize this without being forced to clan chat with a ps4 controller?
irc.synirc.net #warframe

katkillad2 posted:

How do you get extractors? I don't remember seeing blueprints on the shop or anything in the dojo.
They're in Update 11.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

What the gently caress are extractors and how did I miss the part where they were patched into the game?
You buy a reusable blueprint somewhere in the market, build a Titan Extractor, and deploy one to a planet where it'll store up some resources you can pick up in four hours. They take damage sometimes, can't be repaired, and can only have one deployed total, so no fleet mining.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


I love how nobody gets sunk cost about this game anymore.

"I hear this game has problems." "Oh Jesus there's so many we can tell you all about them."

I attribute this to the early adoption and continued use of :de: in clan chat.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


LeafyOrb posted:

Also gently caress mobile defense against the Grineer because infinitely spawning Grineer for five minutes is the worst thing ever.
I used to think the same way, back when Earth and Saturn were switched around in progression, and I didn't have a good way of dealing with rollers. Then someone noticed how much XP mobile defense hauled in. Then my weapons started getting really good. Then my mod loadout started allowing me to nuke like a maniac.

Incidentally, mobile defense is a staple of powerleveling your gear and accumulating vast quantities of mods. So, whether you want to just clear the mission or E-I-E-I-O it for all it's worth, grab a nuker buddy from clan to help.

QuantaStarFire posted:

They hotfixed it so that finishing an invasion mission opens the next node, so you can just do it once and move on if you don't care about the reward.
I was going to suggest getting a boost to the other side from clan, but I'm pleased to hear that they've implemented this.

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Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


I keep saying they need to do some usability tests in an eyetracker lab and I hope their new UI designer makes that happen.

Fat Samurai posted:

Are there any plans about giving the game some narrative or aim besides grinding components and weapons?
They talked about more lore and narrative integrated into the game in streams before, beyond just the codex system, but I suspect their plans have been changed quite a lot by Warframe's sorta-success.

We were looking at a textdump from some game files which contain some older information on IRC, and it seems the game was originally meant to be about a much smaller-scale resistance. But in response to the actual playerbase, DE's been giving us big universe-altering open warfare events. I suspect that we're mostly going to see a "living universe" narrative driven by these big events, whereas discrete plot missions that are always the same for everyone (I suppose the Tutorial and Vor Assassination are the closest so far) won't be coming for a long time. If ever, at this point.

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