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Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

hooah posted:

It got skipped in deference to my other question, so I'll ask again: has DE said anything about fixing Antimatter Drop performance on clients, or should I just ignore it for the foreseeable future?

To my knowledge, it hasn't even been mentioned as an issue. They either don't know it's an issue, have tabled it for later, or - if you ask me, most likely - they know about it but fixing it would require a serious overhaul of their netcode.

They need to do that for a number of other reasons anyway, but it's probably a big project that could impact a ton of things beyond that one power, so they probably just told themselves they will get to it when they are all sitting on a mountain of cash from bored PS4 sociopaths and can afford to outsource all their coding to Korea or something.

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Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
edit: ^ ^ ^ umm Kunai and Hikou are both full-auto, it's Vasto that's still semi-auto

For those weapons that do pure elemental damage, like heat dagger or acrid, how will the elemental combo thing work? If you stick, for instance, a single fire mod into a synapse, will it turn into a pure radiation cannon of doom, or will the elemental combo thing act totally separate from the baseline damage?

Crowbear posted:

So what's a good set of pistols to shoot for? I spent a bunch of crap making a Seer and I'm reaalllly not a fan of it.
One nice thing about building poo poo weapons in Warframe - you can always tell yourself you did it just for the mastery xp.

As said before, this should all be taken in context - the U11 patch (tomorrow?) will be throwing the entire current damage system out the window. A lot of weapons up until now were popular basically for the sole reason that they offered armor-piercing damage, or offered such ludicrous base damage that slapping an armor piercing % mod onto it made it a decent armor-piercing weapon (like Soma, Hek, Sobek, etc.).

The (current! as in today, not after U11) go-to favorites for pistols off the market are Hikou and Kunai, and the Vasto/Vastos are also popular. They all offer good, accurate single-target DPS, mid-long range while still being useful for things up in your face. Unlike Viper/Vipers, they don't run out of ammo instantly (though Hikou certainly try their best), nor do they have such a terrible ROF that they're garbage against this game's very frequent hordes of mobs (hello Lex). Unfortunately, the only 'shotgun' pistol off the market, the Bronco, isn't considered a very good choice - though it doesn't help that they gave out the hilariously powerful Brakk after the last big event, which blows away even the Prime version of the Bronco.

If you want to get into things that are more difficult to acquire, a good place to begin is probably farming the Phobos bosses for a pair of Twin Gremlins. They have a good feel and rate of fire, and still a lot of DPS. One of what's considered the 'best' pistols, the Acrid, is clan research only and it's unlikely the PS4 goon clan would be at the point to manufacture them any time soon - and we don't know if its pure poison damage will actually be good after U11. A pair of Gremlins aren't too hard to craft once the BP drops, and I have a feeling that their basic design and boss-drop-or-plat-only schematic means that DE will hopefully have incentive to make them better than most pistols.

edit: things to not buy (unless you desperately need mastery) under the current system, and likely still trash in the new one due to structural reasons beyond the damage/armor system:
Any/all longswords and daggers - Melee is fundamentally a bad way to do damage in Warframe, all risk for not much reward, but if you absolutely must slot a melee then you should pretty much invariably build one of these things. Galatine for huge damage AE power attacks, Glaive or the boomerang for comedy, or Dual Zorens for basically the best possible use of the melee slot due to the mobility exploit bug feature they offer.
Lex - Sniper pistol is a concept that doesn't work well in Warframe; the mods to support it don't really exist, and Warframe level design doesn't really call for wasting a slot on a sniper weapon on most any map. You're a ninja, not a ranger.
Sicarus - Can't decide what kind of weapon it is, and ends up sucking at everything. Its high base recoil makes getting consistent DPS out of it next to impossible, but it doesn't do enough short-range or up-front damage to make up for it. Killing things with Sicarus feels like you're fighting your own drat gun even more than the mobs.
Bronco - Comparatively bad, stat-wise, to a real shotgun.
Burston - Like the Sicarus, burst-fire's role in this game is kind of questionable given its current design.
Boar - I think they took it off the market? Anyway, it was never as good as the Hek or Sobek. Hek and Sobek are both great shotgun choices, the first for single huge hits on a short clip, and the second for DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA with shotgun shells.
Grakata - Terrible DPS; may be redeemed in gimmick elemental-combo builds in U11, but probably still not as good at that as Vipers or Soma.
Paris - Is actually pretty fun to use, but it falls victim to the same issues as any sniper-type weapon. In this case, you can fit it with Thunderbolt for a comedy rocket-launcher bow, but blowing yourself up is only funny the first few hundred times.

Coldbird fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Nov 20, 2013

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

a glorious hole posted:

If I want to buy a Sentinel with my bonus money from PS+, what would be the best one to go with? If it helps I chose Loki as my starting Frame.

Carrier. You cannot go wrong with Carrier.

edit: Might also want to note, I'm pretty sure Loki's invisibility doesn't affect his sentinel (?) so be prepared to lose any sentinel a lot when playing Loki.

Coldbird fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Nov 20, 2013

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
Corrosive Projection alert is up for the next 17 minutes, on Mars/Ares.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
Looking more at the new damage stuff, the implication is that they're going to need several new basic mod drops to become common... hope you have a shitload of fusion cores lying around. If Armor Piercing is becoming just piercing damage, then I guess they'd need new and equivalent ones for slashing and impact, then they'd need an elemental mod for toxin - all across all four weapon classes.

It also sounds like elemental mods now won't scale based on the base damage of the weapon itself - which is pretty significant. If it works the (DE) way I think it will - add a flat x elemental damage per shot - then it could be a colossal buff to super-ROF weapons like Soma, Viper, and Supra.

I did see the mention of electric damage now doing "chain electricity damage" as its proc interesting, though. If the Synapse becomes a chain-lightning-o-matic, it could very easily become the most flexible area-effect weapon in the game - more so than the sort of clunky Ogris anyway. Instant fire + no risk of self-damage + able to target mobs regardless of their formation.

Magnetic sounds kind of dubious as a damage type unless they're massively buffing mob shields, except maybe against certain gimmicky boss fights like Jackal. Why bother reducing shields when you can just blow them off entirely? I guess most of the others, like Corrosive and Radiation, depend hugely on the proc % and exactly how much they debuff the target.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

WeaponBoy posted:

Oh my god, Berserker's skills look terrible. A grappling hook is ok, but two debuffs focused on melee and an ultimate that gives her hulk hands? :gonk:

The grappling hook ability looks like a more powerful single-target version of Pull that doubles as an omnidirectional zorencopter. Frankly, it looks like one of those game-breaking abilities that end up defining the class once people have gotten to play with it for a while.

If nothing else, it seems to work like the Lash ability from the Mass Effect 3 DLC, which was hilarious enough on its own to be worth using.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Crowbear posted:

I guess I should prepare for it. My Rhino should be done in a few hours and I hear he's pretty fun. What's his general playstyle/strategy?
Rhino strategy guide: equip Rhino, beat warframe

He's the only frame where all four of his abilities are solid even against the hardest stuff in the game. He plays like a heavy soldier/tank; don't be afraid to stand and take punishment from small to medium numbers of enemies. You will soon realize that you are basically invincible against anything that isn't high level.

Keep Iron Skin up at all times; it has no duration or timeout, it just lasts until depleted. Use your first 50 energy when you start the map to cast it, then go to town. Stomp is your go-to if you are surrounded or otherwise in a place with too many mobs; what it doesn't kill outright, it stuns for ages. It even will stun most bosses, which is probably going to be nerfed sooner or later here.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
So, Acrid is bad, but unless there's some kind of massive display bug then pretty much all shotgun-based weapons are overpowered as hell. My Brakk now has a base damage of over 2,500, my Hek apparently has a 50% base crit rate and 95% with mods and then hits for like 2K before that, and Denzine and others (myself included) all apparently had our sentinel's Sweepers listed as being able to one-shot anything up to and possibly including Lephantis.

The last part is probably a bug, but it seems from the way they've redesigned mods that they definitely intend people to gravitate towards the elemental combo system in lieu of stacking piercing/impact/slash.

Also, if you have a base-elemental weapon, like the Ignis, and slot only the mod you want to combo with it, then (according to the UI at least, I didn't do any scientific testing) then the weapon's entire damage becomes that combo type. The UI is telling me that my Ignis is doing almost 400 blast damage per shot, and it's only level 14 - though in fairness, against 30-ish infested it seems to only be doing 60-80 a tick, but I'm not sure if that's because it's counting the additions from the mods as separate damage hits? The fun part is (if I'm understanding the mod multipliers correctly) that this also means that the full percentage of both elemental mods now applies to your baseline damage a la Serration / Hornet Strike.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Male Man posted:

I don't know how any damage type interacts with any target type!

Neither do I, with one exception: my 'cancer cannon' 100% radiation Ignis is 99% useless against Void mobs. It says it does 400-600 a tick, but it literally does 5 or less on almost every tick on Void T3 mobs. I guess the Void is chock-full of hard gamma rays and everyone just sort of chills in 500 millisieverts of radiation all day, every day, in the Void.

edit: V V V or someone at DE played too much Death Knight in WoW-LK; it was an old Blood spec ability that upped your damage output (and damage input) by some hilarious amount, they had to remove it before Cata launched but some 20-million gamers worldwide will think of that first when they read 'Hysteria'

Coldbird fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Nov 21, 2013

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

amuayse posted:

Okay, so can you guys tell me how to get more weapons fast? Everything seems to cost a lot of those blue squares or silver circles. Not that there's anything wrong the Braton, it's just sort of boring.
Blue squares are credits, the in-game currency you get for doing missions, etc. Silver circles are platinum, which (usually) you can only get by spending RL money.

Generally, everything non-cosmetic in the game you can get without platinum, it just takes a while to farm up the parts. Most all of those weapons in the store that cost plat also have blueprints listed lower down, for credits, if you want to build your own instead.

You can make quite a decent amount of progress with the default gear, enough that getting 25k credits won't seem that difficult soon. If you really desperately want a ton of credits right now, I suppose you could piggyback on a goon void tower run - just be prepared to die a lot. Many of those who have been at this a while can solo most kinds of tower runs and it isn't uncommon for there to be empty slots we could fit some newbie into.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

hooah posted:

Also, have the Grineer Bombards' missiles always been homing?

They have as long as I've been playing, so around U8.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

katkillad2 posted:

So if I'm reading correctly, the armor penetration mods are mostly useless now? That was a lot of wasted money and fusion mods if so :smith:.
Not so much useless, but they're now much more niche. They would only be any good on a weapon that does most or entirely piercing damage base.

Keep in mind that although the physical damage (impact, piercing, slash) mods look weaker than the same elemental mods, that the base damage the elemental mods calculate from is after the application of the physical damage mods.

Say you had a gun doing 100 piercing base damage. Piercing mod makes that 160, but hey, a maxed fire mod means you do 190 (100 piercing, 90 fire). However, when you have two mods, you could either a) slot another elemental mod (say ice) and make it 280 (100 piercing, 180 blast) - or you can slot piercing, and get 304 (160 piercing, 144 fire).

The formula gets more favorable the more mod slots you're using. That being said, most weapons seem to have a mix of all three physical damage types, with very few loaded 80-90% in a single type like you would need to make the above really work. There are still a few, but rather than the piercing mod in the above case, I would rather slot something like Heavy Caliber for most guns as it buffs all three physical damage types.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Der Waffle Mous posted:

Just to confirm something because I'm not quite clear on it, when you slot an elemental mod, you're going to be doing that damage each shot/burst/swing in addition to whatever physical damage, correct?

And the status chance is specifically for the special effects granted by the elemental mods?

Yes, so you will be doing x physical damage in addition to y elemental damage. The status chance actually applies to every damage type you're doing, and the physical damage types have special effects that can proc too. You may have seen random hammers and poo poo mixed in with your damage numbers, those are special effect procs.

The effect chance, as far as I know, applies to all damage types that weapon does - e.g. my Brakk does 300-ish of each physical type, then 2100 blast, then 750 electric. I've seen it proc all six special effects, but I haven't mathed out if any one is less or more common. The electric one is kind of hard to spot sometimes.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

DeathSandwich posted:

Actually probably going to do Amphis since I've already got the pattern and the Zorens don't look all that good.
Nonsense. Zorens are amazing. That being said, if you are hitting things with zorens, you are doing it wrong.

To spoil it, you use Zorens due to a bug feature where using melee during an air slide launches your guy forward at hilarious speed, aka "zorencopter". It's been in the game for months and DE hasn't done anything about it.

You can do it with unranked zorens, but for best results, slot a maxed Fury mod. Also, please don't be the pubbie that copters near the windows on a spaceship. The main logic here is that melee in this game is basically always useless anyway, so you might as well use the melee slot for added mobility.

Coldbird fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Nov 25, 2013

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
Managed to kill Stalker earlier tonight. He aggroed on a pubbie on a mobdef map, who apparently didn't know to announce it and waypoint his location. Somehow he didn't despawn when he downed somebody, and an enterprising Loki went inviz outside the dispel radius while everyone else dogpiled him.

The three of us on him all went down but killed him while bleeding out. Loki rezzed us. I guess the key is just to have a broken overpowered secondary to unload on him while you bleed out?

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

amuayse posted:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/142881-the-five-stages-of-warframe/?p=1694011
tl;dr Warframe gets boring once you get the stuff you want, and has no good endgame. Truth be told, Power Rangers in Space does get a little thin after you start getting lots of the shiny stuff.

It's a decent post, but I think here's the thing he's completely overlooking:

the post posted:

Ask yourself what mods will drop two years from now.
This game likely wasn't budgeted for a two-year life cycle. Welcome to the F2P business model - it's not a system that lends itself to long-lasting titles like subscription MMOs end up as.

If they're going to go to all the effort of totally overhauling the game like that, then why bother making it a patch - make it Warframe 2 and cash in on everyone having to buy into everything all over again.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

seiferguy posted:

Also, build an Ignis if you're at master level 4. You won't regret it. It takes awhile to build the materials for it but every game I'm in where someone has an Ignis they completely dominate the damage done% category. I just started building mine now. Can't wait.

Isn't that because it also damages dead bodies, or did they finally fix that? I haven't used my Ignis in a while. Having too much fun with the Penta.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
To add on about the Penta - one nice "feature" is that it's great when you're in a low level frame or against a huge pack by yourself, etc., because you can, to an extent, engage mobs outside of LOS. You can sit in relative safety and drop grenades behind their cover, down stairs, around corners... you can sort of do that with the Ogris but not as easily.

I actually haven't run into any issues with the five grenade limit even with multishot, because I rarely fire more than twice without detonating. I usually end up setting them off in midair, actually.

Don't know how anyone would consider the Ogris more stylish, it's a huge ugly box.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
You know, all the complaints about this game are true, but there is still nothing more fun than taking #1 damage with a level 8 Penta on a series of Neptune mobdef runs. Helps it's got a single forma, but still, it's running only Serration and blowing away some Nova's tricked-out Soma.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Feenix posted:

2 Questions:

1) Is it PSN or Warframe servers that are making GBS threads the bed at the moment? (Finally got in, but it was all kinds of difficult to.

2) I have Focus. Should I Fusion it up and then place it on Rhino? I can move mods from frame to frame if I want, right?

[edit] I lied. Third question: I don't see actual statistics on ranking up Rhino Stomp, but it has 3 levels. What is the benefit?
1 - don't know
2 - Probably not a bad idea, you can use it on all frames without having to move it and it stays useful on many of them.
3 - Increased radius and damage; aside from mod cost there is no downside to leveling it up and maxing abilities is always cheap. Max Iron Skin before anything else though.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
By far the most important change:

New Grineer vs. Corpus invasion mission tile involves literally firing yourself out of a cannon and into the hull of the opposing spacecraft.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

redstormpopcorn posted:

It's really fun when it bugs out and fires the shell's model but doesn't carry you with it.

Almost as fun as using MPrime right after it lands, since they cram the exit hallway full of about a quarter of the map's enemies. :sweep::supaburn:

Listen, they're Grineer, not rocket scientists. What's a few catastrophic explosions of gore between friends? Just clone up a new torso and limbs.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Elysiume posted:

It's the best aura, and auras apply to your whole team. Also, auras give rather than consume points. Max whatever aura you're using no matter what.

It's definitely one of the better ones, but I think I'd argue Rifle Amp is the real best when polarities on the better frames are taken into account. The insane efficiency you can mod into ever since they added Corrupted mods also diminished the value of Energy Siphon.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

seiferguy posted:

The nova almost feels unfair with Molecular Prime. I just love watching stuff blow up. The Mag Prime is fantastic for doing Corpus survival / defense missions with shield polarize and crush.
There is nothing "almost" unfair about mprime. There's other ways to break or even exploit this game, but they at least require some minimal amount of coordination or aim. Mprime is just a straight up win button vs. entire rooms of max level heavies.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Cascade Failure posted:

Re: the problems in the game, there's a topic on the official forums which is imo pretty spot on:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/160258-fixing-the-fundamentals/

Some of the things the guy is suggesting as fixes I don't agree with 100% but it's surprisingly well thought out and presented.
It's only well thought out in the sense of someone making an incredibly detailed wishlist. He isn't thinking at all about budget, dev time, testing each element against all the others, or anything except what he thinks would be cool. His list involves so many sweeping and fundamental changes that it would literally be a bigger investment of time and money than just creating Warframe 2 from the ground up, and it wouldn't pay off nearly as well as same.

Anyone who wants to be "constructive" in game feedback needs to realize game development is a business like any other. They can't just spent a shitton of money forever, and they can't add tons of new content without adding some hook so people buy plat. Otherwise they can't, you know, pay the devs to come to work and do all this fancy poo poo he wants.

They don't have to remove ultimates, just tone them down and make them more utility than outright damage. It's 5% as much work as what he wants, for 80% as good a result.

Similarly - why dump the energy and orb drop system entirely, when they could instead just kludge in a way to force mobs to drop the orbs you want with a special way to kill them, or just a second mechanism for health and energy recovery out of combat. Maybe they add medical bays and generator rooms to the tile set, and you can stick your arm in the circuit breaker box to refill energy as many times as you want - but only at that location. Maybe energy regens fast by default, but only if your shields are full. Ideas like that are a lot more doable than what he wants.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Alteisen posted:

So I've been using my MAG again, dropped some upgrades into pull.

What the gently caress did they do it? I'm yanking entire groups off their feet and killing mass targets like crazy, I had like 300 kills in a survival with a friend of mine, its obscene, broken and I love it.

They buffed the poo poo out of Pull and Shield Polarize back when they put in Mag Prime.

It gave us (false) hope that they would similarly buff Ember when she got her Prime, but... yeah.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
Just got the last piece for mine tonight and it's now in the oven, though I'm doubting it will really out-perform Soma in most situations. The crit rate is high, but not that high.

Of course, I did jam three forma in my Soma already, so it always feels a tad unfair to compare anything else tot.

I am curious about how good bows will be in practice, once people who just have to have a bow start tricking them out. They still haven't really added a convincing role for sniper-type guns in this game, really. If they expand on the new pack leader thing they're doing now, they might be able to come up with something, though even then... why snipe when you can just Penta?

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
Idea: Tenno on Horses - Update 13

Space horses of course.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

ullerrm posted:

Question: Why is the Goon clan dojo relatively spartan? (I.e. No greater hall, barracks, etc)

We used to have all that in the last dojo, before we rebuilt it. It's useless stuff that serves only to get people lost. Better to have a small and utilitarian base, nobody is going there for sightseeing - and if they are, it's not more than once.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
Even more than melee 2.0, I'm wondering about the potential of these generic all-frames powers they mentioned. They could turn frame balance on its head overnight by just giving everyone a nerfed version of Iron Skin or something like that.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
I never checked - does anyone know if the double credit IAP applies to invasion rewards? Same for the double resource IAP, although it seems kind of dumb if the double amount one applied but the double drop rate one didn't.

Actually, would the double drop rate one be for the whole team even if only one person bought it? I don't know if they even have the code for hiding drops from some players but not others.

I can't wait until DE breaks them somehow and makes them team-wide buffs that stack per player.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
For those who hadn't tried it yet, the flavor text on the Castanas is a bit short on details - they are, in effect, thrown electric Penta grenades that stick (no bounce = less suicide). I might have bought them cash if DE's market ad for them said that, and didn't just make them sound like an electric Kunai. Too late now, already built them with clan research.

Only just leveling mine now, not sure how much the lower damage will hurt them, but the idea has a lot of potential. The sticky thing means actually using for setting traps could be a thing, but I guess it would also be a lot harder to kill things outside LOS than with a Penta.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

motoh posted:

20 Oxium for an individual lock is absurd. It's annoying to acquire and only encourages killing more corpus, which I don't think was the intended point of these guys.

Considering you need 600 to build a Zephyr, and you get about 40 to 50 per Kappa run anyway - which also happens to be a prime xp-farming spot where it's never hard to find a team - 20 is actually pretty light. A month or two from now, everybody is going to have 1000 spare oxium lying around anyway.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
The whole question about frames being invented recently seems bizarre. I thought we all got woken up from cryo tubes recently, because the Grineer were digging us up trying to get our fancy technology to kill Corpus for more milk. As a result, we all have no memories aside from what Lotus tells us.

Now, apparently, there's a Tenno Council? Do they have memories? Since when are we organized beyond individual clans each doing their own thing? Why does all our communication still come from Lotus and not from this Council? Are they just some bullshit Lotus made up?

The Council is doing research too? How? Well, with our team of PhD warframe experts that oh whoops there haven't been any of those for like five hundred years and none of us even remember our own names, let alone complex technical stuff. Maybe they're being created by whoever we had build our dojos?

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

I love cats posted:

I am disappointed that charged attacks will be removed. I think it dumbs down an already dumbed down game.

Charged attacks are, in my opinion, an useful method to keep melee-based mobs at bay when your primary is lacking in that department (i.e. penta, ogris, bows, etc), without having to smash your keyboard. I will miss the Jat Kittag charge attacks.

I am not at all sold to the melee hype. From what I have seen, I do not think melee is a solid alternative to gunplay. I find that having to "switch" to use, as opposed to the current quick use (quick attacks and charged attacks), leaves you open to attacks, and takes away from the nimbleness, fast paced approach of the game.

Instead of shooting and using melee as needed, without breaking your tempo, you will have to voluntarily commit to attrition close combat because gimmick combos? Why would I want to do that?
I'm fine with charge attacks going away, they made for a clunky modding system and it didn't feel like it made sense anyway. I'm a space ninja, why am I actively waiting for things to get close? While I'm doing that, my whole team just killed four times as many things each.

That being said, I don't want to blame DE entirely. They're not quite recognizing something fundamental here - the FPS model doesn't work well when you try to shoehorn in melee gameplay. I can't think of a single example of it ever working.

Every time they cite another melee game, notice they don't pick another FPS, they're comparing it to stuff like DMC, Darksiders, more recent Castlevania games, or even straight up fighting games like SF, etc. FPS games with melee weapons usually just use them as a) gimmicks or b) sneak attack instant death weapons.

Melee ARPGs and the like have a different player perspective that's designed to let you see both your own entire body for positioning and combos, plus as many targets as possible - not the full time over the shoulder view that Warframe uses, which is more conducive to precision aim instead of lining up multi-target melee combos. There's also things like mob targeting that focuses your camera on a specific thing, and (kind of huge) more than one melee button so they're not forced to kludge in way too many functions on one key.

The combos they're showing certainly look nice, but they have yet to show a convincing reason to use them. I don't think they can really make full time melee viable (any more than full time dual Vipers are "viable") without an unrealistic and enormous overhaul of the game that they'd screw up anyway - but they can make it sort of work by putting in a decent mix of enemies which are hard to kill with guns and can't just be bypassed with things like Shred. They still run into the problem, though, of people just running up to point blank range but still using their guns instead.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Washin Tong posted:

Space Marine pulled off the melee/shooter combination pretty well (at least in the Ork sections).
I liked Space Marine, but its "melee" was very heavy on scripted kill animations. Not quite as bad as, say, the Greaterrible Wonder-Horror that was Bayonetta, but they seem to want something more active, along the lines of DMC.

Actually, if they put in a Bayonetta Warframe complete with that breakdance quad-pistol spin on rear end thing she did, and made it Prime Access only for $100+, they would make a hilarious amount of money.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Joe Gillian posted:

Are you saying that Bayonetta relies heavily on scripted kill animations? You couldn't be any more wrong.
I only recall a whole bunch of combo moves I never used because the trash fights never warranted them and the boss fights were mostly "spam this single button while some scripted event shows" being pretty much the whole game, but maybe I was drunk and was accidentally playing it on easy or something. Don't think I was though. What I remember the most was definitely the rear end spin move.

Cathair posted:

Woah woah, what? No, that is some backwards logic right there. In what way does the idea of charge attacks necessitate the clunky modding system? They could just as easily have made all melee damage based off the same damage mod, and it would've made perfect sense, just like every other game where you have access to a light melee attack and a heavy melee attack at the same time. Use either and mix 'em up according to the situation, it's a good system. It's DE who chose to gently caress it up by segregating the two types, not a problem with the idea itself.
I think we actually agree and it's just semantic. The current setup is awkward because it allows for none of the dynamism or spectacle that's normally associated with melee gameplay now. Melee weapons are basically very short range guns, they attack one way and one way only.

A weapon is either a normal attack spammer or a power attack platform. You never have to think which tool is better for any given job because the modding system forces you to only have one tool or the other.

They could consolidate them together, of course, which would be a step in the right direction. I'm all for that, as well as a look at the mod costs associated with the consolidated mods - especially if the stance mods work like auras but there's still no melee multishot mods.

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Denzine posted:

I run a maxed Hcal on Soma and Boltor Prime.

People that complain about the accuracy loss live in a dreamland called "jealous of my 3k+ fusion cores"

I do 1000 damage per bolt, and almost as much per soma crit. Thousands of damage when I hit heads. With shred.

there is no meaningful down side to hcal on 90% of guns.
I find that, unless you're shooting from shotgun range or less, you lose at least as much DPS from hcal's accuracy cost than you gain from the higher damage numbers.

Mine is quad forma, and I dropped hcal for max stabilizer and find it a lot more versatile that way. It can not only snipe, but hold down the trigger and do the bullet hose thing from sniper range too. If weapon switching in this game was half as fast as the rest of it, I might go back, but as long as isn't then I'd rather have something for all ranges than a Sobek from hell.

I may not have 3k cores but I'm over 1k I think :|

Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless

Mango Polo posted:

And the keys are one-use right?

So much effort, and it's not like Hydroid is Nova-tier. Apparently its abilities are terribly disappointing except for the ulti. So good job DE.

Probably an experiment on DE's part to see how many people who normally farm their frames up will buy it if it's sufficiently difficult to get, and exactly how hard they can make a frame to build without people just not bothering to buy or farm for it at all. Would seem like pretty critical information for their future plans and budgeting.

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Coldbird
Jul 17, 2001

be spiritless
Spawn rate on the prosecutors now in survival is nuts, was seeing one every 1 to 2 minutes with more than one up at once at times. I'm not sure if it was a UI bug or what, but I know I saw it telling me I was getting 2 or even 3 beacons per pickup.

Didn't take long for them to backpedal on the crazy grind...

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