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NihilVerumNisiMors
Aug 16, 2012


quote:

Is there anything stopping you from, as a Monk, recruiting Rasaad in BG2 and doing his quest and then immediately stripping him of all his sweet gear and kicking him to the curb?

Other than the alignment restrictions on his boots, nope. Go for it.

quote:

How soon before Monk gets awesome?

They... take quite a bit, even in BG2. I'd say around level 13, because that gets you the amazing Quivering Palm.

quote:

With bg2EE just released I've aborted a small party f/m/t run. Now I want to run all the new character so what would work ok with that kind of party?

Cleric/Ranger is amazing from beginning to end. Dual-classed Fighter/Druid might also be good if you're sick of using Jaheira.

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Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Cool. Wasn't sure if his gear was locked yo him and only him. As for Monks I honestly found that they get going pretty fast in BG2. It really doesn't take long at all to become a Fighter But Better.


Clanger is always a good idea. Always.

Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 3288 days!


cheesetriangles posted:

How soon before Monk gets awesome? I am doing a solo monk run and had a lot of difficulty in Irenicus dungeon with missing attacks over and over. Getting outside and getting bracers of AC3 has helped a bunch defense wise at least. My thac0 is garbage even with 19 STR. Any must have items that are easy to grab for a monk?
Monks come into their own at level 14 when they magic resistance. The game isn't really balanced for solo play. At low levels you have to exploit the engine constantly to survive, whereas at high levels you're a ridiculous death machine. It goes from one extreme to the other.

You should get the Short Sword of Backstabbing from the Thieves Guild quest. It's a +3 weapon that can help you kill certain enemies (like the rakshasa in the Druid Grove).

I think there is a flaming sword you can buy in Waukeen's Promenade that will let you slay trolls.

Also: potions! Potions get overlooked by parties with spellcasters but as a solo monk they are a godsend.

Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 3288 days!


Does Greater Malison stack?

gender illusionist
Mar 21, 2007



College Slice

Baron Bifford posted:

Does Greater Malison stack?

Not with itself but you can stack up with doom

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

Baron Bifford posted:

The smart thing is to side with Bodhi because you'll then get to destroy both guilds later in the game.
I think I had read somewhere that it's possible to attack the Shadow Thieves in Chapter 6 even if you had sided with them. Though I never tried that since I didn't feel like betraying them.

Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 3288 days!


If you do that then the game will spawn an invincible assassin who will wipe you out. It's a safeguard to prevent you breaking the game by turning on Aran after you side with him. That safeguard is in effect even after you return to Athkatla.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003

Unleash the Elements.


Baron Bifford posted:

If you do that then the game will spawn an invincible assassin who will wipe you out. It's a safeguard to prevent you breaking the game by turning on Aran after you side with him. That safeguard is in effect even after you return to Athkatla.

I'm not sure I believe that. Why would it matter if you turn on Aran post underdark? his part in the play is done.

Asides from that, an invincible assassin seems a bit hamfisted, even by bioware beamdog.

jBrereton
May 29, 2013

JUST BECAUSE I WANT TO CRAM PEELED GRAPES INTO MY COUSIN'S MUSCULAR ASSHOLE DOESN'T MEAN THAT I'M A 19TH CENTURY RIVERBOAT PERVERT OF THE AMERICAN INTERIOR
________/



Grimey Drawer

NihilVerumNisiMors posted:

Cleric/Ranger is amazing from beginning to end.
I've heard this is the case, but why?

Does it mean you get Druid spells alongside your Cleric ones from the off or something?

Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 3288 days!


I read it's because the get all druid spells as well as cleric (they shouldn´t in theory). On the surface it doesn't sound so fantastic since they share so many spells. The ranger levels give a better THAC0 but why not just use a Fighter/Druid?

Rookersh
Aug 19, 2010

Midgets be packing some Space-Age shit!



So did the patch actually work at fixing the disappearing monster bug? I'm curious since it only said it'd effect save games through the menu, not quicksaves.

gender illusionist
Mar 21, 2007



College Slice

jBrereton posted:

I've heard this is the case, but why?

Does it mean you get Druid spells alongside your Cleric ones from the off or something?

Yep.

E: what's the deal with dorn's bg2 quest? Do you get to turn him good? How does that affect his class?

gender illusionist fucked around with this message at Nov 22, 2013 around 13:59

NihilVerumNisiMors
Aug 16, 2012


Fighter/Druid misses out on most spells that turn clerics into melee juggernauts like Draw Upon Holy Might. Cleric/Ranger gets the best of pretty much three classes for the price of two.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Baron Bifford posted:

I read it's because the get all druid spells as well as cleric (they shouldn´t in theory). On the surface it doesn't sound so fantastic since they share so many spells. The ranger levels give a better THAC0 but why not just use a Fighter/Druid?

Because having Iron Skins AND Draw Upon Holy Might AND good THAC0 is impossible without the glory that is the Clanger.

Also Insect Swarm.

verybad
Apr 23, 2010

Now with 100% less DoTA crotchshots


Baron Bifford posted:

I read it's because the get all druid spells as well as cleric (they shouldn´t in theory). On the surface it doesn't sound so fantastic since they share so many spells.

The spells they don't share are pretty important. Druids especially have a couple of spell levels where there's simply nothing good there, but on the other hand they get some really, really good spells to compensate for it. Cleric/Rangers get the good overall spell selection of Clerics and all the heavy hitters from the Druid spell list. Losing druid HLAs isn't a big deal, so there's realyl very few reasons to roll a druid for.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


Yeah, Fighter/Cleric and Ranger/Cleric have mostly a bunch of small things going for each side. F/C gets grandmastery proficiency - not a big deal at all unless you mod it - and slightly faster level-progression, R/C gets Druid spells, Charm Animal, stealth (hugely useful in solo runs, nice bonus otherwise) and favored enemy, which is very nice - +4 to rolls against Liches or Dragons goes a long way. Regular game I'd say R/C always wins, modded grandmastery to add another 1/2 attack is closer but I'd still favor R/C.

jBrereton
May 29, 2013

JUST BECAUSE I WANT TO CRAM PEELED GRAPES INTO MY COUSIN'S MUSCULAR ASSHOLE DOESN'T MEAN THAT I'M A 19TH CENTURY RIVERBOAT PERVERT OF THE AMERICAN INTERIOR
________/



Grimey Drawer

Insurrectionist posted:

Yeah, Fighter/Cleric and Ranger/Cleric have mostly a bunch of small things going for each side. F/C gets grandmastery proficiency...
I thought multiclass Fighters only got two points in specific weapon proficiencies? (with Dual-Class fighters/x getting to grandmastery)

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


jBrereton posted:

I thought multiclass Fighters only got two points in specific weapon proficiencies? (with Dual-Class fighters/x getting to grandmastery)

You might be right, I can't remember the last time I played a fighter multiclass. Probably just mixing it up with dual-classing. Although, that would make F/C terrible compared to R/C even WITHOUT the Druid spells - only slightly faster level-progression is practically useless, compared to favored enemy + stealth.

gender illusionist
Mar 21, 2007



College Slice

Can you backstab from sanctuary?

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


gender illusionist posted:

Can you backstab from sanctuary?

Pretty sure you can't, at least you definitely don't get the +4 to hit that stealth/invis gives you.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


jBrereton posted:

I thought multiclass Fighters only got two points in specific weapon proficiencies? (with Dual-Class fighters/x getting to grandmastery)


This is correct.

Karmalaa70
Jun 15, 2006


Rookersh posted:

So did the patch actually work at fixing the disappearing monster bug? I'm curious since it only said it'd effect save games through the menu, not quicksaves.

Seems to have fixed it. I only had time to run Irenicus' dungeon last night but I quicksaved and reloaded many times to test it and never had anything disappear.

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

Tithin Melias posted:

I'm not sure I believe that. Why would it matter if you turn on Aran post underdark? his part in the play is done.

Asides from that, an invincible assassin seems a bit hamfisted, even by bioware beamdog.
BG1 did the same if both Grand Dukes died or you went on a killing spree in Candlekeep. Probably better to end the game immediately if the player renders it unwinnable rather than to allow him to keep going and have to hunt down for old saves, assuming they even exist. Though by chapter 6 Aran should be killable and it's an oversight if he isn't.

I was able to kill that assassin (Arkanis Gath is normally unkillable and can one-shot any character he attacks) by having a mage use limited wish to cast Shapechange, then cast Improved Haste on the himself followed by limited wish to stop time and then turn into an illithid. He was then able to quickly Int-drain him which killed him, since Int-drain bypasses normal invulnerability. Only lost two party members before my time stop kicked in.

Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 3288 days!


Tithin Melias posted:

I'm not sure I believe that. Why would it matter if you turn on Aran post underdark? his part in the play is done.

Asides from that, an invincible assassin seems a bit hamfisted, even by bioware beamdog.
In general it seems that the BG games don't like you killing characters unless it's in the script somewhere.

Kith
Sep 17, 2009


Fighter/Druids are kind of enormous assholes once they hit HLAs and can shapeshift into horrible monsters while benefiting from Fighter Thac0. Otherwise, they're pretty underwhelming. I wouldn't suggest making a PC Fighter/Druid, especially when Jaheria is present.

Also, for anyone who's looking for the secret NPC for BGIIEE: He's only accessible through Rasaad's quest. Look for the cages and pay for his release.

Malek
Jun 22, 2003

Shut up Girl!
And as always: Kill Hitler.


^^^^^: This is what I'm hoping to do but I'm wanting a tweak pack to fix up the shifter gently caress-ups that Beamdog won't be fixing.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

Yeah, I meant to type tweak pack, not fixpack. I want my casting/thieving in heavy armour and my item stacks, drat it.

The only component I installed that actually messes with item description text is the rebalanced proficiencies, but that doesn't seem to be the culprit. I guess I'll have to uninstall the whole thing and verify each component individually.

I'm trying to use the BG2tweak pack on BG1EE and it's throwing back errors for my shifter. The 14 version I'm seeing apparently was made before the mega patch.

Kith
Sep 17, 2009


gender illusionist posted:

E: what's the deal with dorn's bg2 quest? Do you get to turn him good? How does that affect his class?

You get a +3 2H Sword that deals stupid amounts of damage with varying amounts of bonus damage vs. various things depending on who you betray, with the sword becoming the strongest if you betray everyone at the cost of Dorn becoming a Fallen Blackguard. If you have a Cleric it's really not that much of a loss, really all you're losing is Poison Weapon, Life Drain, and Aura of Despair.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Kithrixx posted:

Fighter/Druids are kind of enormous assholes once they hit HLAs and can shapeshift into horrible monsters while benefiting from Fighter Thac0. Otherwise, they're pretty underwhelming. I wouldn't suggest making a PC Fighter/Druid, especially when Jaheria is present.

Also, for anyone who's looking for the secret NPC for BGIIEE: He's only accessible through Rasaad's quest. Look for the cages and pay for his release.

In my experience, the Druid HLA shapeshifts are not as good for a Fighter/Druid as dual wielding some kickass weapons and having good gear in general. Maybe I'm missing something though.

And what's this secret NPC business about?

Kith
Sep 17, 2009


Captain Oblivious posted:

In my experience, the Druid HLA shapeshifts are not as good for a Fighter/Druid as dual wielding some kickass weapons and having good gear in general. Maybe I'm missing something though.

And what's this secret NPC business about?

Of course they're not as good. Nothing beats the incredibly insane gear options.

That said, Baldur's Gate EE had a secret NPC, and BGII:EE continues the trend.

It's Wilson the Grizzly Bear. You get a quest to find him from the stoner mage in the Wild Mage camp, and he's in the area that Rasaad's quest takes you to.

cheesetriangles
Jan 5, 2011



You know a lot of things have a hard time hitting my -14 AC monk. I think they improve a lot once you get a few levels under your belt.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Kithrixx posted:

Of course they're not as good. Nothing beats the incredibly insane gear options.

That said, Baldur's Gate EE had a secret NPC, and BGII:EE continues the trend.

It's Wilson the Grizzly Bear. You get a quest to find him from the stoner mage in the Wild Mage camp, and he's in the area that Rasaad's quest takes you to.

Well that's the thing. Having incredibly insane gear is the default assumption by time you have HLAs so I'm not sure why HLA Shapeshifting would ever be relevant.

MegaGatts
Dec 12, 2004

The Enteroctopus dofleini, also known as the giant Pacific octopus (GPO) or North Pacific giant octopus, is a large marine cephalopod belonging to the phylum Mollusca and is tripping balls.

jBrereton posted:

I've heard this is the case, but why?

Does it mean you get Druid spells alongside your Cleric ones from the off or something?

Yes, and you can cast natures beauty from sanctuary. That's a 100% aoe blind with no save with no risk to you.

sweet geek swag
Mar 29, 2006
Even if I'm wrong, that doesn't mean you're right.


Doctor Rope

Captain Oblivious posted:

Well that's the thing. Having incredibly insane gear is the default assumption by time you have HLAs so I'm not sure why HLA Shapeshifting would ever be relevant.

It an option that you have for roleplaying reasons. It's never going to be the best option, but hey, if that's what floats your boat knock yourself out.

Kith
Sep 17, 2009


Captain Oblivious posted:

Well that's the thing. Having incredibly insane gear is the default assumption by time you have HLAs so I'm not sure why HLA Shapeshifting would ever be relevant.

Base AC of -5 can be pretty useful in a pinch, not to mention the healing that happens at the end. 2d10 crushing damage isn't shabby either (assuming you're using the Earth form). Shapeshifted characters only lose their armor and weapon bonuses while retaining all of their other gear-based bonuses, so it can be useful. Not the best option, but it's not bad by any stretch.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



The unkillable assassin was always in BG2 even after the Shadow Thieves quest probably because TSR isn't really down with game developers loving around with aspects of the setting that they didn't create themselves. See also: Drizz't never truly dying no matter what. They don't take his gear from you out of sentiment.

A lot of (dumb) people soured on NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer because it's endgame hinged on an aspect of the setting that was clearly mandated to never change. Gotta keep things consistent for the tabletoppers.

Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at Nov 22, 2013 around 18:23

sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.



Cleric/Ranger also gets the Ranger's free 2 pips in 2-Weapon Style which is not nothing. Flail of Ages main, Defender of Easthaven offhand you're set for the game in chapter 2.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

Why is grandmastery so neutered in vanilla BG anyway? It's only in that series too. IWD is true to paper.

Basic Chunnel posted:

The unkillable assassin was always in BG2 even after the Shadow Thieves quest probably because TSR isn't really down with game developers loving around with aspects of the setting that they didn't create themselves. See also: Drizz't never truly dying no matter what. They don't take his gear from you out of sentiment.

A lot of (dumb) people soured on NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer because it's endgame hinged on an aspect of the setting that was clearly mandated to never change. Gotta keep things consistent for the tabletoppers.
Which wasn't even true, Obsidian made a mistake and just assumed they weren't allowed to change it from the get-go. Shortly after NWN2 came out, the D&D setting was given a makeover through the books apparently.

Factor_VIII
Feb 2, 2005

Les soldats se trouvent dans la vérité.

caleramaen posted:

It an option that you have for roleplaying reasons. It's never going to be the best option, but hey, if that's what floats your boat knock yourself out.
After all, the vanilla game doesn't require the optimization to beat. You can easily beat the game with a suboptimal character, so if someone thinks it will be cool if his PC can turn into a big monster, why not have it as an option.

Basic Chunnel posted:

The unkillable assassin was always in BG2 even after the Shadow Thieves quest probably because TSR isn't really down with game developers loving around with aspects of the setting that they didn't create themselves. See also: Drizz't never truly dying no matter what. They don't take his gear from you out of sentiment.
To be honest I'm betting it's just a designer oversight. Aran Linvail was an original NPC for the video game and even if the PC went on a killing spree at the Shadow Thief headquarters, one would expect the guild to continue to exist. Hell, you get to kill them all if you side with Bodhi anyway so doing so isn't taboo.

As for Drizzt, I think it makes sense he stays alive. All you need to come back from the dead is an ally willing to pony up a bit of cash at a nearby temple and Drizzt has plenty of friends. The PC does it for his companions all the time.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



4E and its cosmology changed but I don't think it changed THAT much. They ended up making their 4E bridge / portent game in Storm of Zehir and though the gloves probably could have come off there, it wasn't that kind of epic-scope game.

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Boogle
Sep 1, 2004

"What's an aimbot?"


Rascyc posted:

Which wasn't even true, Obsidian made a mistake and just assumed they weren't allowed to change it from the get-go. Shortly after NWN2 came out, the D&D setting was given a makeover through the books apparently.

Its an honest mistake to make, especially when dealing with the D&D license. I honestly don't know why developers don't have the freedom to treat it like tabletop where the DM/developers can do whatever the gently caress, even if it means you can break the setting over its knee.

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