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Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
Feel free to disregard this post.

It is guaranteed to be lazy, ignorant, and/or uninformed.
Salvatore novels are good when you are a teenager but they do not hold up

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Nethalin
Mar 16, 2024

The only fantasy sci-fi slop that I've ever found good as an adult was the Warhammer Eisenhorn novels. Going back to read Forgotten Realms literature seems like a hard sell to my frontal lobes.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
Feel free to disregard this post.

It is guaranteed to be lazy, ignorant, and/or uninformed.

Nethalin posted:

The only fantasy sci-fi slop that I've ever found good as an adult was the Warhammer Eisenhorn novels. Going back to read Forgotten Realms literature seems like a hard sell to my frontal lobes.

It is not good.

Nethalin
Mar 16, 2024

Hollismason posted:

It is not good.

hope you're not referring to Eisenhorn because Eisenhorn RULES

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
Feel free to disregard this post.

It is guaranteed to be lazy, ignorant, and/or uninformed.

Nethalin posted:

hope you're not referring to Eisenhorn because Eisenhorn RULES

Nah Eisenhorn is real good I also like Gaunts Ghosts series of books as well. The Fantasy that was made by TSR in the 80s and 90s especially Salvatore and Forgotten Realms is not good.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

I’m in my 40s and still mostly enjoy the Salvatore novels. Theyre mostly schlock, but they entertain just fine.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
Drizzt novels are basically just Jack Reacher novels in cosplay, and I don't mean that as an insult to either one.

H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe
So I'm replaying BG2 as a Thief\Mage.

I basically put all the skill points in stealth skills, I'll keep Imoen on as the unlocker of doors and disabler of traps. My guy is gonna focus on backstabbing and using spells to make backstabbing betterer (and also just to be a bit more versatile in general).

Last playthrough I did was a Kensai\Thief who was an utter gib machine.

I'm enjoying the Thief\Mage, but I'm starting to wonder about the validity of being a backstabber. I Dualed at Lvl 9 Thief so that way I would hopefully still get the top level spells. If you can backstab during Time Stop, I could imagine that would be pretty awesome, but since I'm only getting a x4 backstab, I question how useful it's going to be at higher levels?

That being said, casting Stoneskin, hiding, one-shotting the mage, then having enough durability to be a bit of a secondary Tank is proving pretty awesome.

But yeah, how valid is being a backstabby bastard as a Thief\Mage throughout the game?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

H13 posted:

So I'm replaying BG2 as a Thief\Mage.

I basically put all the skill points in stealth skills, I'll keep Imoen on as the unlocker of doors and disabler of traps. My guy is gonna focus on backstabbing and using spells to make backstabbing betterer (and also just to be a bit more versatile in general).

Last playthrough I did was a Kensai\Thief who was an utter gib machine.

I'm enjoying the Thief\Mage, but I'm starting to wonder about the validity of being a backstabber. I Dualed at Lvl 9 Thief so that way I would hopefully still get the top level spells. If you can backstab during Time Stop, I could imagine that would be pretty awesome, but since I'm only getting a x4 backstab, I question how useful it's going to be at higher levels?

That being said, casting Stoneskin, hiding, one-shotting the mage, then having enough durability to be a bit of a secondary Tank is proving pretty awesome.

But yeah, how valid is being a backstabby bastard as a Thief\Mage throughout the game?

It's very valid. The spells you're looking for are Improved Invisibility but especially Mislead.

rojay
Sep 2, 2000

Shard posted:

Ok going that route what is the best d&d books? And if you want to give more recommendations what are the best high fantasy books for that matter

Find a copy of the Dying Earth stories by Jack Vance. It's not "high fantasy," but they're extremely well written, clever and were a direct influence on the development of D&D. The way wizards learn spells, by memorizing them from a spell book, and the idea that they can only hold so many spells in their mind at a time is called "Vancian." after the author.

Cugel the clever is one of the better characters in literature, genre or otherwise. Highly recommend.

Mr. Baps
Apr 16, 2008

Yo ho?

H13 posted:

So I'm replaying BG2 as a Thief\Mage.

I basically put all the skill points in stealth skills, I'll keep Imoen on as the unlocker of doors and disabler of traps. My guy is gonna focus on backstabbing and using spells to make backstabbing betterer (and also just to be a bit more versatile in general).

Last playthrough I did was a Kensai\Thief who was an utter gib machine.

I'm enjoying the Thief\Mage, but I'm starting to wonder about the validity of being a backstabber. I Dualed at Lvl 9 Thief so that way I would hopefully still get the top level spells. If you can backstab during Time Stop, I could imagine that would be pretty awesome, but since I'm only getting a x4 backstab, I question how useful it's going to be at higher levels?

That being said, casting Stoneskin, hiding, one-shotting the mage, then having enough durability to be a bit of a secondary Tank is proving pretty awesome.

But yeah, how valid is being a backstabby bastard as a Thief\Mage throughout the game?

Arivia posted:

It's very valid. The spells you're looking for are Improved Invisibility but especially Mislead.

Yup, Mislead is the GOAT if you want to backstab. Cast it so that your illusion is off-screen and just go hog wild. There's also a cloak of non-detection in Athkatla somewhere - either the sewers or the assholes in the Promenade inn, I think - that will be nice to have.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

As I mentioned earlier, I’m using Keldorn for the first time. Which means it’s my first time I’m able to use Carsomyr as well. Holy poo poo Keldorn w/ Carsomyr is just a disgusting combination. Plus it probably cheered him up getting a new sword, after he tossed his wife in prison.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


Decided to do an Icewind Dale 2 playthrough with the "Enhanced Edition" modpack, dumping WIS on my dwarf tank was a stupid idea, he is getting owned by will spells

That said a dorf tank with a halberd whacking dudes for 20+ damage and having over 50 HP at third level is :hellyeah: when he's not running away like a pussy

Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Mar 18, 2024

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

I forget, will I get back any weapons or equipment worn by the betrayer after spellhold?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

chaosapiant posted:

I forget, will I get back any weapons or equipment worn by the betrayer after spellhold?

Yes, you get to fight it in Spellhold and the body has any gear on it, along with the heart.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

Arivia posted:

Yes, you get to fight it in Spellhold and the body has any gear on it, along with the heart.

I remember the heart, just couldn’t remember the gear. Right on!

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

chaosapiant posted:

I remember the heart, just couldn’t remember the gear. Right on!

No worries, just figured I’d toss in a reminder since you really don’t want to miss it.

H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe
As I said, I'm starting to get into the Thief\Mage thing.

Another fun trick I found is to buff, cast fireball from off-screen, agro the enemies with my tanks, then go get all my fun backstabs once the tanks have tied everybody up.

The thing that I'm struggling with is taking time out of attacking, to cast a spell like Improved Invisibility. Which...while in Melee range opens up my guy to some pretty easy attacks\interruptions. So I've found it better to dive in, stab, dive out and cast.

...

But if I'm running back out to cast invisibility, I might as well dive out to a shadowy spot, hide, then dive in and get backstabs without using magic? So what's the "safe" way to cast magic while in the middle of a fight without running for cover first?

So I'm thinking of putting the Robe of Vecna on my Thief\Mage which will basically make casting any form of invisibility instant, which almost gives me "hide in plain sight." Add Dak'kon's Zerth blade, Amulet of Metaspell and I should have a bunch of instant-invisibility casting...

rocketrobot
Jul 11, 2003

Air Skwirl posted:

Drizzt novels are basically just Jack Reacher novels in cosplay

This is the most accurate statement about Drizzt I've ever seen.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

H13 posted:

So what's the "safe" way to cast magic while in the middle of a fight without running for cover first?

Stone Skin, Mirror Image?

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007

Moralists don't really *have* beliefs. Sometimes they stumble on one, like on a child's toy left on the carpet. The toy must be put away immediately. And the child reprimanded.

The safe way to cast invisibility in combat is to drink a potion

The Shame Boy
Jan 27, 2014

Dead weight, just like this post.



Having a contingency of all your buffs saved up in case you get dispelled of course

H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe

Rappaport posted:

Stone Skin, Mirror Image?

Cool cool.

So if I should rely on my buffs to make sure I don't cop a swing, I'll not worry too much about my gear providing AC and I'll rock the Robe Of Vecna over Elven Chainmail.

Zeerust
May 1, 2008

They must have guessed, once or twice - guessed and refused to believe - that everything, always, collectively, had been moving toward that purified shape latent in the sky, that shape of no surprise, no second chance, no return.
Trying to optimise your AC is a trap, honestly, it gets completely outpaced by Thac0 progression once you're into the midgame. Focus on spells that mitigate or prevent incoming attacks entirely; the Robe of Vecna makes panic-casting much more viable, since it pushes your casting time so low that a lot of vital spells become casting time zero, which can only be interrupted if you take damage on the single frame when you're casting the spell.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

Are there any sound balancing mods for BG/BG2? Something that's getting a bit old is when there's multiple spell effects, or stuff like haste wearing off, if the sound volume seems like it's stacking. Like two hastes wearing off will be twice as loud as one haste wearing off, and other spell and sound effect happening concurrently do the same. Does anyone else experience this?

H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe

Zeerust posted:

Trying to optimise your AC is a trap, honestly, it gets completely outpaced by Thac0 progression once you're into the midgame. Focus on spells that mitigate or prevent incoming attacks entirely; the Robe of Vecna makes panic-casting much more viable, since it pushes your casting time so low that a lot of vital spells become casting time zero, which can only be interrupted if you take damage on the single frame when you're casting the spell.

Yeah I think panic-casting with a Mage in melee range is probably going to be the most helpful thing. Being able to insta-cast Improved Invisibility either to backstab or a magic get-out-of-jail-free card is going to be super useful.

Also, being able to cast things like Breach to gently caress up another mage's contingency defences should make them pretty easy pickings for my backstabby bastard.

As an aside.

Since I usually play Monk, I'm used to micromanaging the gently caress out of all my characters in combat. I never really played with buffs and instead just focused on tearing the enemies apart ASAP and not letting them establish any defences or anything.

This time I have:
- Me (Thief\Mage)
- Minsc
- Jaheira
- Viconia
- Haer'Dalis
- Nalia\Imoen

Before any half decent, telegraphed fight, basically everybody has access to SOME sort of buff and holy poo poo why did I not play with these earlier? I would basically only buff my mages to make sure they would survive the combat.

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010

Spell sequencer/trigger are really good for back-up invisibility. I forget the specifics, but there also some weird mechanical quirks that let you start casting spells in between attacks without pausing for a “round” to end. Requires a lot of manual pausing to get the timing right

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

Fruits of the sea posted:

Spell sequencer/trigger are really good for back-up invisibility. I forget the specifics, but there also some weird mechanical quirks that let you start casting spells in between attacks without pausing for a “round” to end. Requires a lot of manual pausing to get the timing right

I usually have a "player helpless->invisibility/sanctuary" Spell Contingency setup so that my mages, if made helpless, will hopefully avoid getting hit.

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Bob Salvatore may not be good at writing women or characters, however the description of Wulfgar hitting somebody in the head so hard that their ankles broke stuck with me for like 20 years.

H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe
I had a blast with my Thief\Mage in the planar sphere. Hiding in shadows, taking out one of the psycho halfling mages with one backstab, insta-casting Invisibility with my Robe of Vecna, backstabbing somebody else and working my way through small groups solo like that was awesome.

I'm starting to wonder whether or not a Thief\Mage multi is better than a thief\mage dual. I think I might be splitting hairs here and there might not be a huge difference either way, but being a multiclass ensures that your backstab can keep growing (maybe being an Assassin\Mage multi?) and your thief skills keep growing. In other words, my guy who is focused entirely on backstabbing people into a fine mist, might one day be able to set traps as well.

But you'd need a massive chunk of experience to get that far. You might hamper yourself when it comes to HLAs. Thoughts?

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

H13 posted:

I had a blast with my Thief\Mage in the planar sphere. Hiding in shadows, taking out one of the psycho halfling mages with one backstab, insta-casting Invisibility with my Robe of Vecna, backstabbing somebody else and working my way through small groups solo like that was awesome.

I'm starting to wonder whether or not a Thief\Mage multi is better than a thief\mage dual. I think I might be splitting hairs here and there might not be a huge difference either way, but being a multiclass ensures that your backstab can keep growing (maybe being an Assassin\Mage multi?) and your thief skills keep growing. In other words, my guy who is focused entirely on backstabbing people into a fine mist, might one day be able to set traps as well.

But you'd need a massive chunk of experience to get that far. You might hamper yourself when it comes to HLAs. Thoughts?

I really empathize with the folks who warn you about "the halflings", it's always a fun time trying to figure out how to catch those wizards with their pants down.

If you're a multi-class you will get Use Any Item which is absolutely busted

I'm of two minds here when it comes to dual classed folks. I always run with Coran for BG2 installed, because that is just such a good multi-class to slot in, and the pre-baked dual classes like Imoen and Nalia :argh: have their thievery skills sort of all over the place. But anyone who is a mage up-front will get ridiculous abilities by the end, and you don't necessarily miss them not leveling up their back-stab.

Which is all to say that you can make Jan Jansen an absolute monster if you want to!

The Shame Boy
Jan 27, 2014

Dead weight, just like this post.



Does Renal Bloodscalp just disappear whenever you side with Bohdi? The wiki says he as a pair of boots of speed and i wanted to grab them but he's not in his room when i invaded the place just now. Guess i'll just have wait till after Spellhold for the next pair.

rocketrobot
Jul 11, 2003

Rappaport posted:

you can make Jan Jansen an absolute monster if you want to!

So many specialty crossbow bolts. Oh and he can backstab and cast spells I guess.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

rocketrobot posted:

So many specialty crossbow bolts. Oh and he can backstab and cast spells I guess.

Everyone casting spells becomes busted at some point, but you can have Jan yelling about griffons whilst shoving Carsomyr at someone.

Zeerust
May 1, 2008

They must have guessed, once or twice - guessed and refused to believe - that everything, always, collectively, had been moving toward that purified shape latent in the sky, that shape of no surprise, no second chance, no return.

H13 posted:

I'm starting to wonder whether or not a Thief\Mage multi is better than a thief\mage dual. I think I might be splitting hairs here and there might not be a huge difference either way, but being a multiclass ensures that your backstab can keep growing (maybe being an Assassin\Mage multi?) and your thief skills keep growing. In other words, my guy who is focused entirely on backstabbing people into a fine mist, might one day be able to set traps as well.

But you'd need a massive chunk of experience to get that far. You might hamper yourself when it comes to HLAs. Thoughts?

I tend to look at it in terms of 'value per level', since XP costs scale exponentially, and nothing beats spellcasting levels. Dual-classing Thief / Mage means you have 8th level spells by the end of SoA, which beats out an increased backstab modifier by an order of magnitude. It's why dual-classing is such a dysfunctional system: the first 9 levels of a class have the same XP requirement as the 10th, and being able to cut a non-caster class off at its' final hit die essentially gives you full access to that class as a full caster. It also lets you access kits.

Ironically, it's why I don't like or recommend using it. It's a fundamentally broken mechanic that ruins whatever semblance of balance single vs. multi-classing offered, since the strength of a single-class is supposed to be kits and faster advancement. Multi-classing is perfectly viable, especially since you get HLAs from both classes. You're not hampered getting HLAs because they become accessible at 3 million XP, regardless of your actual class levels.

H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe
Also, Dual Classing feels weird from a character perspective.

It'd be the wrong order but imagine Dualing FROM Mage to Thief at like level 9.

...

What, so your character magically forgets how to cast magic missile overnight but suddenly he can SORT OF pick a lock if he's lucky. Then 1 De'Arnise keep later, he can suddenly throw a shitload of fireballs again AND now he's good at picking locks. It's a bit dumb.

Multi at least makes sense from some sort of character progression perspective, but I think multi-class in BG1 is pretty rough unless you've got some sorta fighter in your multi mix. Otherwise you're going to be pretty loving useless for probably the first half of the game until both levels get off the ground floor.

In hindsight, the 3rd edition way of "pick a class each level" is much more balanced and logical.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

H13 posted:

Also, Dual Classing feels weird from a character perspective.

It'd be the wrong order but imagine Dualing FROM Mage to Thief at like level 9.

...

What, so your character magically forgets how to cast magic missile overnight but suddenly he can SORT OF pick a lock if he's lucky. Then 1 De'Arnise keep later, he can suddenly throw a shitload of fireballs again AND now he's good at picking locks. It's a bit dumb.

In tabletop AD&D, a dual-class character can use abilities from their previous class, but they don't gain any experience in any encounter where they use their previous class's abilities until their new class is at the same level; the idea is supposed to be that they're trying to learn a completely new way of adventuring, and falling back on their old skills before they've mastered the new ones will interfere with that. I won't say it's not silly at all, and it definitely makes things weird from a balancing perspective, but there's at least some attempt at logic behind it. It probably would have made things unnecessarily complicated to implement it that way in computer games, though.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

"Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."
I'm starting to regret completely discarding both druid and mage in this IWDEE run now that I'm getting a bunch of mage and druid only gear dropped in my lap but archer and skald were just too good to pass up :gonk:

I literally killed the snake cult god lady with a +1 arrow without even remembering to add buffs

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

H13 posted:

Also, Dual Classing feels weird from a character perspective.

It'd be the wrong order but imagine Dualing FROM Mage to Thief at like level 9.

...

What, so your character magically forgets how to cast magic missile overnight but suddenly he can SORT OF pick a lock if he's lucky. Then 1 De'Arnise keep later, he can suddenly throw a shitload of fireballs again AND now he's good at picking locks. It's a bit dumb.

Multi at least makes sense from some sort of character progression perspective, but I think multi-class in BG1 is pretty rough unless you've got some sorta fighter in your multi mix. Otherwise you're going to be pretty loving useless for probably the first half of the game until both levels get off the ground floor.

In hindsight, the 3rd edition way of "pick a class each level" is much more balanced and logical.

Duelling from a berserker to mage makes perfect sense. You are the God of Murder, so you're good at punching folks to death. And then you realize, wow, horrid wilting is just more efficient.

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H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe

Rappaport posted:

Duelling from a berserker to mage makes perfect sense. You are the God of Murder, so you're good at punching folks to death. And then you realize, wow, horrid wilting is just more efficient.

That does make sense.

But if Jaheira was in your party, can you imagine how white-hot enraged she would get when you would suddenly refuse to punch anything with your obviously ridiculous strength because you want to "try casting magic missile" and loving it up non-stop?

...

Okay somebody make a BG movie and make that happen.

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