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Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

I'm playing through BG2, and am trying to use characters I haven't used in the past. I'm considering switching out Jaheira for Valygar, but since I've never used him I'm not sure how efective he would be. I'm also wondering how I'd fare with only one healer (My CHARNAME is a fighter/Priest). Are Jaheira's druid spells worth keeping her around, or is Valygar a cool enough character to make up for thweir loss?

Right now I have:

Me
Keldorn
Jaheira
Mazzy
Neera
Jan

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Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

I've discovered that not only is Mazzy, who I have never used over at least 6-7 playthroughs in the last decade, a Great Character, but that a party with her, Keldorn, Jaheira, Jan, and Neera has amazing banter. I've since traded Jan for Imoen, and I'm really missing his banter. But...I didn't want to have him stranded in the Asylum. I might pick him back up when I get back to the surface...I know Imoen is my sister and all, but she is really very bland.

VVVVVV I have a love/hate relationship with Dragon's Eye. I think it is a wonderfully designed area, but not being able to rest makes it quite a challenge which can become frustrating on higher difficulty levels. That said, it really makes you think about conserving your resources, rather going with the "2 hour workday" method. I'm already planning another IWD playthrough when I'm done with BG2.

Devorum fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Dec 5, 2013

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Fruits of the sea posted:

What exactly is the trigger for finishing Kivan's quest? Apparently the timer was drastically shortened in the Enhanced Edition. He started complaining just as I was finishing the Nashkel Mines.

Do I have to annihilate every single bandit or is simply tracking down the camp enough? I'm doing an ironman run, so I'm not exactly eager to go on a kamikaze attack against the bandits but it may be necessary.

You have to defeat the bandit leader, then go talk to Officer Vai in Beregost with no bandit scalps in your inventory. This triggers the end of the bandit quest, and also triggers Kivan's "We gotta kill Tazok!" quest.

As to why I never chose Mazzy before...I guess I was just racist/classist against halfling fighters. Now I think she'll be on every single run. I also think it is awesome that she now has a statue of herself in her hometown!

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Furism posted:

Yep that's where I've been resting (it's on the third level out of four). But they are pretty much at the end of the level, unless you already know they're there, so I didn't find them until late. The real problem is the 4th level with all the Elite Whatstheirname and their freaking +2 arrows.

I think my tank is not very good either - I'm not half as good as people here for ADD 2.0 rules. He was level 6 or 7 Paladin by then, with -3 AC. He took a lot of damage, even with the Protection from Missiles buff so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Protection from Normal Missiles won't protect from +2 arrows.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

After putting ~70 hours into the BG series in the last 2 weeks, I'm a little burned out and taking a break. I've never actually beaten IWD2, and am about to give it a go. Thinking up character builds is really making me remember how much I hate 3.0 D&D. If I remember right, IWD2 bards are significantly better than they actually were in actual 3.0, correct?

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Wingless posted:

You're taking a break from BG by playing IWD2? That seems...like not a break at all.

It's a completely different style of game, just in the same engine.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Has anyone tried the IWD-BG2 engine conversion mod?

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

I can confirm that BWP isn't even close to worth the hassle of getting it to work...I'd say "properly", but I think that would be overselling how well it works even with hours of hassle put in.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Considering another BG run. I've never completed a game with an evil party (mostly due to the scarcity of evil fighters available) and was considering a M/T or a dual-classed F->T.

How does Dragonspear handle evil parties?

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Kobal2 posted:

I recently learned that one, so of course I tried it in the EE and that was neat - but was that always in BG, and was that story always... that story ? Or was it updated after BG2 ? Cause there's a name in there that threw me for a loop

It was always the story, though that name changed slightly between BG1 and BG2 being released.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

queeb posted:

is BG2 more focused?

A bit, yes. Especially in the early parts.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Considering another BG run as a Paladin, since I've never mained one. Is there anything special I should know? Is Inquisitor the best kit?

Should I just do a F/C or F>C instead?

Or maybe a Blackguard since I've never actually completed an evil playthrough?

My favorite part of the game is obviously the analysis paralysis.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Khanstant posted:

What game had this spooky town in the middle of a forest, basically had nothing much to do with your main quest that I recall, but it was a really good focused-area centered on some kind of spooky horror mystery going on in this town with a haunted mansion or tower in it. I think there was either a Lich, a pair of Liches, or just a pair of differently good/evil brothers. The dungeon map itself was pretty elaborate, with different paths and challenges depending on how you approached it or who you were siding with. I think you may have also been appointed sheriff, lawyer, and judge in some capacity. The more I try to describe it the looser idea I'm getting of it, but I also want to think there was a twist that you didn't necessarily have to uncover or deal with to resolve the quest. Maybe like the Lich did something super horrible to become a Lich, but those kids were dicks or something like that?

Anyway, just thinking of cool Liches and Lich stories while waiting to be one in Wrath of the Righteous.

Sounds a lot like Elegia Eternum.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

My favorite part of TOB is, by far, when you meet the Spectator from the Sahuagin city and just shoot the poo poo with it after it does you a solid..

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Is SCS fun? I've avoided it for 15+ years because I assumed it just made everything hard as hell, but I'm considering giving it a shot.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Fruits of the sea posted:

It's pretty fun and refreshes the game totally imo, so long as you are pretty familiar with the game's systems and can get the most out of your available spells and magic items. The mod makes a big deal out of being faithful to d&d rules and realism, so there's no bullshit with immune bosses, respawning waves or locking doors behind the party. So long as you're careful not to engage in high level encounters too early, it isn't even that hard. There's still lots of ways to tilt a fight in one's favour.

On the negative side, this also means enemies use potions and wands. The potions get annoying pretty quickly, as thieves will constantly use potions of invisibility to backstab and it can sometimes feel like playing whack-a-mole when the opposing party keeps chugging health potions. This also means the player gets a lot more potions of course so it's more an annoyance than it is difficult. It also mean save-or-else spells like blindness and confusion become a lot more useful since disabling an opponent is more helpful than chucking a fireball and having them heal up again.

A heads up for the early game - turns out sirines and dryads are actually pretty tough when they can use all their spells and abilities.

ThanksI I think I'll give it a go this time around, shake things up a bit.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Why is Imoen suddenly a Medieval Cockney Peasant Woman?

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Zephro posted:

Does anyone know why 2e capped stats at 25, anyway? Was it an attempt to stop power creep among PCs? Or is it just another one of the weird arbitrary features that make 2e charming? Having the human range be 3-18 with a hard cap at 25 leaves hardly any room for things to be weaker than a human, and not much room for things to be stronger/smarter/tougher. Which is a problem in a universe full of liches, demigods, 1,000-year old dragons and the like.

It was kind of an attempt at bounded accuracy, so you could stop the "my numbers go up forever" syndrome. But past 18, it doesn't scale linearly. A 20 Strength is as much better than 18 as 18 is from 6. 25 in any stat is generally just bonkers.

At 25, you get things like immunity a ton of spells (Wis), basically all illusions (Int), massive regeneration (Con), the ability to persuade anyone of anything with a +14 reaction bonus (Cha).

And, of course, ridiculous damage, AC, and to hit bonuses.

Devorum fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Mar 3, 2021

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

I recruited Hexxat once and then I didn't do some quest immediately and they left and I never considered recruiting them ever again.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Getting the itch to play IWD again. I kind of want to do a 5 person party, maybe even 4 person, which I've never done before.

I'm thinking maybe:

1. Human Undead Hunter (RP reasons, as much as RP can exist in IWD).

2. Elf Archer (Murder reasons)

3. Fighter/Druid (or F>D?)

4. Cleric (Lathander or Tyr, probably, to heal while the Druid duals, maybe) (or F/C or F>C?)

5. Illusionist/Thief

Would the I/T be sufficient to carry me magically? I typically have multiple arcane casters, but spells are harder to come by in IWD.

Should I add a Bard somehow? I've never been impressed with them in previous attempts.

Will this party live, or get mulched?

Is dual-classing worth the wait?

I'm open to any suggestions, the only two I'm set on are the Paladin and Archer.

Devorum fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Mar 10, 2021

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

I think I hosed up with IWD. I bumped it to Insane to make it more challenging, but now I'm already level 7-8 at the Temple of The Forgotten God and steamrolling everything while also not having spells above level 2 for my poor Illusionist.

Is Insane a secret cheat mode/Wizard nerf that I've somehow missed for the last twenty years?

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Killed a Girl in 96 posted:

I wanted to tell you all that this thread convinced me to re-play BG1 for the first time in 20 years with the EE release. And boy, does that game suck.

The plot is thin if you already know the twist. The character personalities are non-existent. The combat is bland because it's a low level 2E campaign. And slowly plodding through 50 screens of empty wilderness killing Xvars and gnolls is about as much fun as a stroke. Oh look this map has an extra cave in it where I can loot 3x Garbage Gem of Merchant 20 gp Trash. I'll use this bountiful windfall to sleep in royal lodgings tonight. And maybe get 3 more antidote potions too, because poison in this game lasts until your character completes their 8 year PhD thesis on Toxic Plants: An Adventurer's Guide to Beregost. Whoopidy fukkin doooo it's another dire wolf.

At least I'll be able to play BG2 again soon, a game which is still A+ through and through. See you bitches in the underdark.

No.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Installed a tweak that makes Khalid a F/M, and hot drat he's so much better that way.

I'm going to run a Paladin through BG and then run the Super Goody-Two-Shoes party of Cavalier Charname, Keldorn, Anomen, Mazzy, Aerie, and Yoshimo/Imoen through BG2.

Shame there's no holier-than-thou thieves, though I guess Nalia is self-righteous enough.

After that, it's a Wild Mage and see how many intra-party fights I can start with bad companion choices.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

JustJeff88 posted:

I've seen that mod in an LP. How are you using him? I presume that he buffs himself and then wades into melee, but there are other options.

Right now I've got him using a bow and the occasional spell because we're all still level 2 and if an enemy looks at Khalid sideways, he tends to have a morale failure. That'll probably change when he gets a few more buffs.

It's nice having another option for a Mage, though.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Fruits of the sea posted:

The breadth is fun for tabletop because if players think a certain class or build's concept is cool, they can build a character around it. Of course, in tabletop a dm can always fudge the rules so a gimmick character isn't totally terrible/overpowered. Doesn't translate so well to videogames.

E: all that said, as DM I'm always real careful what sourcebooks are permitted because it can quickly get overwhelming for some players and dealing with powergamers can be headache once they start citing feats from half a dozen different sources or whatever.

I disagree pretty strongly. Maybe I wouldn't if all of the options were viable, but they're not. The breadth is just an illusion concealing the fact that there's only a couple really viable option paths. I virtually never had fun. It was exhausting planning every character out because I had to make sure I wasn't missing some stupid tax or trap that was going to render my build stagnant at level 8 or whatever.

The death of System Mastery as the dominant philosophy in TTRPGs was the best thing to come from that era.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005


You're pretty spot on. And in the beginning, PF1 fixed a lot of the 3.x problems. But, like you said, just bolting on more stuff ad nauseam really made it an unwieldy system with all the problems of its ancestor.

PF2 is a wonderfully designed game. I wish I could get my group to play it.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Really drives home Nalia's "Rich White Girl With Dreads Who Yells at Marginalized People for Not Realizing She's The Bestest Ally" vibe.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Captain Oblivious posted:

Almost like it’s difficult to construct a fight that is simultaneously challenging for people who do not have system mastery and those who do.

AD&D is bad and has certain inherent limitations. Making a final boss that is a satisfying challenge for everyone is beyond the reach of a system like that.

It's not like any edition of D&D does it much better, and at least one edition is markedly worse about it.

That said, I'm not sure Irenicus is even that difficult without mastery.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005


loving weird that they left the comma pause.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Empty Sandwich posted:

I remember one of the designers of 1e ranting on a message board that the idea of surviving below-zero hitpoints was an absolute travesty and entirely counter to the spirit of what Gary stood for until someone pointed out that Gary had included those rules in the DMG.


Was it Mentzer? Goddamn, he is one of the most obtuse assholes I've ever discussed game design with.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Jack B Nimble posted:

Ah, I was typing in words like "azure" or "pools"; awesome, thanks!

They also have all the Dragonlance games and the Eye of The Beholder games.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005


Is it still 3.x ruleset? I tried playing NWN recently and 3.x trauma came surging back.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Suspicious posted:

Vanilla BG1 had no magical clubs anywhere in the game, but it wasn't a big deal because blunt weapon proficiency also let you use maces, flails, quarterstaves and warhammers.

Still loling that axes were all alone.

Extra weird since swinging an axe is much closer to swing a mace than a drat flail is.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Totally unsurprised to discover that Patrick Rothfuss, author of the inexplicably beloved "Incel Power Fantasy: The Fedora McNiceguy Chronicles" also wrote the creepiest parts of Tides of Numeria.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Anyone who thinks literally any videogame or book is remotely good should spend more time enriching their sophomoric minds in the Beastwars x 40K section of AO3, to be honest.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Zeniel posted:

Thac0 kinda all makes sense once you get your head around it to me. The thing Ive never understood because my only experience with 2e is the infinite engine games, is how spell saves work, like how does save VS x work? And to add to that how does spell resistance work?

Every class a its own Save Progression, and you check the chart to see what you have to roll under.

So if your Wands save is 14, you want to roll under over 14.

Spell Resistance is just a flat percentage roll.

Suspicious posted:

You want to roll your save or higher.

You'd think I wouldn't have flubbed this since I'm actively playing in a 2E game.

Devorum fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Nov 25, 2021

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Jay Rust posted:

Don’t wild surges have a chance of an actual instant game over, like turning yourself into stone?

Yes, I turned myself to stone buffing before a fight in the sewers. I was casting Stoneskin, so I guess it was thematically appropriate. Technically correct.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

I have a confession: despite having played this series, and IWD, for like 23 years I have never once Done A Backstab.

It's always seemed way too fiddly and at this point I'm afraid to even try.

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

pentyne posted:

Dungeons & Dragons: Dark Alliance was supposed to be some coop GaaS arpg and I think most people aren't even aware it exists. It only has 3.6k reviews since 2021 on steam which is insanely low for a big IP title.

That's because it sucked real bad and word got around so fast it basically flopped so hard it went back in time and destroyed itself. One of the most boring games I've ever played.

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Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

JustJeff88 posted:

Try Red Magic by Jean Rabe. Might be the worst novel I've ever read on any subject. It's book #3 in the Harpers series from the 2e days. Meanwhile, book $4 in that series frightened me so much I can't read it again and #5 is a personal favourite, so let's not paint them all with the same brush.

This is old, but Night Parade (Harper's #4) was one of the first Forgotten Realms novels I read after The Crystal Shard when I was 12 and it scared me worse than anything other than Salem's Lot or Pet Sematary had to that point.

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